Eric Neuner is the Co-Founder of Empowered Education, the parent company of Health Coach Institute—the leading online schools for wellness coaches and health practitioners. With employees in over 30 states and 10 countries, HCI has trained over 20,000 students, making them among the top learning institutions in the world. Eric also has a purpose-driven community hub in San Rafael, CA
We talked about…
- The Pros and Cons of Living in Community
- The Protocols and Decision Guidelines in a Thriving Community
- Compassionate, Non-Violent Communication (For Community Leaders)
- What Keeps Our Community Together
- With Everything Amazing, There is a Loss (in Community)
- Small Steps You Can Take to Build Community
- Scale Intentional Communities
- The Hardware and Software of Building Intentional Community
- What I Learned From My 1st Ayahuasca Experience
- Creating an Environment to Trust Myself
- Be a Hero For Your Younger Self
- How I Found My X-Factor
- Open Your Heart By Any Means Necessary (According to an Entrepreneur)
- Coaching Helps Steering My Mind
- The Use of Technology For Coaches
- How to Engineer Behavior Change
- Entrepreneur Hack For Young Men
- Advice to My Younger Self
- Take 1% Moves to Get Over Self Doubt
- Truth, Compassion, and Radical Candor (In Community)
- What to Say When Standing For Someone
- Self Acceptance, Self Love, & Enjoy Your Achievement
- Choose to Create Space For Truth
- Momentum Begets Momentum (And His Original Rhyme)
- Putting on Archetype For Peak Performance And Flow State
- After 20,000 Clients, What Would You Say to Health Coaches Experiencing Self Doubt
- 2 Practices to Bring More Fun Into Our Lives
- The Belief That Has Most Improved Your Life in the Last 5 Years
Quotable QuotesRegarding community, I would say is not the rules. It's the structures of relating is what keeps us together. Click To Tweet In times where you're most struggling. I think, we need to be seen appreciated love before we're just banged with truth. Click To Tweet With everything that's amazing, there's a loss. Click To Tweet If you are thinking about community, you are in for quite an uprooting of what is your life. So do not do it casually, do not do it lightly, do with your heart wide open and with just an intention of doing things in a loving way. Click To Tweet Building community starts with software because it's about putting yourself in environments where you're building even the inspiration to want to be around these people. Click To Tweet Parenting has been the glue of this idea. Raising your kids takes a village. Having all this perspective of different adults is priceless for my children. It's why I do it. It's why I still am in. I would have exited when I got divorced,… Click To Tweet When I look back, it was never about WHAT I was doing, it was always about HOW I was doing it. And was I bringing the end of the energetic of love? And if I was, then it was trustable. And if I wasn't, I knew I needed to do my work. Click To Tweet When my heart is open, it feels more expansive. It feels like I take deeper breaths. It's usually slowing down. There's a rhythm of nature. It's usually aligning more to that. We know it when we feel it. Click To Tweet Whenever I say 'I don't know', I'm just infusing myself with doubt. Replace 'I don't know' with 'I wonder' It has a different energetic and it's more playful. And it's not about what you're doing. It's about how you're doing it. So you're… Click To Tweet I wanted to operate from love and an open heart and to trust myself by any means necessary. Click To Tweet How I found my edge was by standing for my open heart. Click To Tweet And the good (in you) comes from open heart is the good reveals itself when your heart is open and don't apply your competitiveness to just anything, apply it to the game that matters for you. Click To Tweet Coaching helped me steer my mind. It helped me be efficient with using my mind for what matters to me. Click To Tweet If you use your power in a way that doesn't work for others, you lose all trust. So yeah. You might get what you want, but you lose. Click To Tweet You don't have to work so hard for power. You can actually just shortcut it and be a good human. Ultimately you can also shortcut to just collaborate with good people and trust that power comes from that. Click To Tweet Marketing at the end of the day is just like caring and sharing and the things you're into. The world needs, but they don't know it yet. You could have shared that more boldly. In the sharing you become a, someone who's caring enough to… Click To Tweet Where are you pretending? Where are you avoiding? Where are you most uncomfortable? That tends to be your 1% move. Click To Tweet Until I'm clean, I don't speak radical truth. Click To Tweet Yes, we can succeed by. Beating ourselves up, making ourselves wrong, fearing judgment, fearing not looking bad or looking good. You can do it. It's just not that fun. It's true. So there's a better way. It works better. The people around… Click To Tweet I've been a warrior. in the battlefield of life of standing for what I think matters standing for my own integrity, my own spirit. Click To Tweet When we're worried about self-doubt, we're worrying about ourselves; When we're in service, our confidence builds because we remember the value of our care. Click To Tweet The decision most improved my life is to choose love and acceptance, even though everything in my body and ego is fighting against that, like openly lean into love and acceptance. Even if it hurts. Click To Tweet
Insight Video Clips
Full Episode AI Transcript
Welcome to Noble warrior. This is a place where entrepreneurs talk about what it takes to create, to produce, to, build a life of purpose, meaning joy and fulfillment. We're going to talk about mental models, actionable tactics, such that you can go out and build and create your own purpose driven life.
My name is Ck Lin, I'm a biomedical engineering PhD from UCLA. I've been a director for the university of California. I've been a startup executive. I am now executive mentor for philosopher entrepreneurs, being on a quest to create a life of purpose, meaning fulfillment. My next guest is the co-founder of empower education.
The parent company of health coach Institute, he's been leading virtual teams when employees in over 30 States in 10 countries and his company has have trained over 20,000 students, helping them, making them the top learning institutes in the world. And he's also a community builder, that. that, pull all the thought leaders together, in San Rafael, California, please welcome Eric Neuner.
Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Thanks. Thanks everyone for listening.
Thank you for, being here, my friend. so one thing I want to start off is pretty simple and. A lot of high achievers that I know after they have made their, exit after they have suceeded after they have accumulated enough wealth, they dream of having a community, a compound where they can host retreats and then just have intentional community.
And I want to ask you, cause you are living it. You have a beautiful place in San Rafael I've been there and, you're speaking right now in the earth that I stayed at. can you share with us a little bit, just paint a picture for us, the environment that you're living in. And so that way people can have an idea of, what we're discussing here.
thank you for asking that question. I am living on, almost two acres of, mostly flat land. Across, the way in one of the houses, is actually my former wife, her new partner, their new baby, my two kids. and then I live in kind of the main house, that has a large family room area where we do yoga.
big kitchen. And then there's like offsite like your little Casita's. And yeah, we've, made this a little village. we have a large garden and what, we call a, what are called hugles which are. permaculture, efficient way of building, soil, that, is, somewhat effortless, but grows lots of abundant food and, yeah, we've got tree houses and, a zip line.
so just kinda. Just things that, I see as, a big, solar, he did salt water pool, So just all good, living, big, long table for potluck dinners, Mondays and Wednesday nights, that I, think are, would, compete with some of the restaurants in the world.
Yeah. a lot of people, there's a cliche in, an American saying, it's Hey, how are you? I'm like a lot of people would say living the dream, living in dream. And then you're really living the dream from my point of view. You have a beautiful place. I've been there, it's it overlooks the city.
And it's just, exudes that retreat center vibe. so a lot of people, a lot of high achievers, I know dream of having a compound like that as a gathering place, as a hub. For conscious living for, holistic living and you're living it right now. So I'm curious as someone who as actually living that dream, that a lot of people have, what are some of the counterintuitive costs and benefits of having such a beautiful place?
love it. wow. What a surrender experiment. to do it, to really do community. You've got to let go of control. So even if this is my place, I can't operate that way. That doesn't work. So I almost have to create, I have to put myself in a place that makes me at the whim of sorts. of the rest of us.
There's a little bit of surrendering my power in that now nuclear occasion kind of thing. could things change in there and it's yes, but ultimately we're all choosing this experiment all the time. So I'm coaching using the living with. these folks and raising our kids together because we know the benefits and it's difficult to relate with different adults who have different ways of being and different strengths.
And, and it's vulnerable. I went through divorce in community. It was very hard, the, not feeling sin and appreciated and understood, like that's just human. It's just, that's the human experience. And so to feel that not feel sin appreciated, understood by people you love and value is so painful.
Yeah, thank you. Very going there right away. This is committed to the podcast. I really appreciate the, courage and the vulnerability and the openness to, go there. it's, it's easy to hide out or when you're living by yourself as a couple, the family unit, but when you're in community, you're finding that natural.
Survival instinct right. To, hide out to whatever. So, share with us, if you don't mind going to the, shall we say, what is difficult about that? and also what is the, what are some of the protocols that you have discover and then say, Hey, make it safe for you to continue to. not fight for but, request, what is that you need as the owner of the place really?
Because no one may say, for, anyone with the most right. Would be, if, even though if it's a egalitarian community, Yeah, Sharing that
it in many ways has helped us like create the, almost the governance and decision-making protocols because it forced us to actually get clear because we, we.
had, we happen to have several guests with us, as well as a new whooper and when COVID hit. And so we were anchored down with our car community then with other guests,
how many people?
it was probably like 15 adults and then
kids. Yeah. Wow. That's a lot of people.
Yeah. and so three of them really not familiar and also not feeling a safe.
And so where we were trying, but we, had a lot more trust embedded in how we operate and that, we were, we're pretty ambitious, conscientious humans. other people didn't necessarily have get that. And therefore there was just a lot more dialogue and, Differences in, safety.
And what I learned is wow, during that time, when you're talking about life and death, the lowest, the person who's least safe has to be the leader. Like they, they have to win that they cause they have to be heard. They gotta be gotten because you're dealing with survival, but you can't have leadership really be lead by the person who feels least safe.
Oh yes. We're going to listen. But ultimately we got to you're, going to be held in something larger. And we had to get clear on what that, larger was. and ultimately where we landed is that like the people who are anchor anchoring the, this community are, the decision-makers. And so people who are true, more transient, like you're participating, but ultimately you're not, the decision maker.
Is it just doesn't, it doesn't honor the all that's been held for the last six years to keep this what it's been. but, getting to that is also, there's an inclusion and an exclusion there that, I don't really go with and opt into. So I almost want to only pull that card if we really need to, we really get to a place where This thing doesn't work, unless we get clear on this decision guideline,
executive power sorta speak.
Yeah. so I'm curious because it is an intentional community. How do I articulate it? So, in company it's easier in many senses because you have, as a business relationship, you can, have your bylaws, you can have a governance structure, you can have essentially your operating existing clearly laid out.
We do have that. Oh,
okay. Great. so yeah, so these are the quote unquote technologies that you have. Develop and evolve over the last six years. Share with us a little bit about that. And then also how, firm you grasp it. And because as a, as an intj as a very cerebral person, that's how I will love it to cover my personal relationships.
I try that didn't quite work. So I'm trying to find the middle way. So if you could share with us a little bit about how you guys are doing it, that would be amazing.
I love that. I will in a nutshell, call what we do or what we commit to a compassionate non-violent communication. If that, do you familiar with nonviolent communication and as a style of communicating,
to share with those, the audience who may not be so familiar.
what's at the root of whatever, where whatever we're feeling is like our needs, like we have met or unmet needs. And so that could create a lot of frustration. So underneath whatever you're getting from somewhere, you're getting anger from them. You're really, what's really there.
It's just an unmet need that their strategy right now is to move into anger in order to get it. And it's a survival strategy. But there's a thriving self that can actually recognize, let's center was recognized that I have an unmet need. I am feeling X I'm having the need for why. And so there's a way of, us as a group committing to a way of communicating that doesn't attack, that doesn't make wrong.
And I'm not saying we do it. And this is like, how hard do you stick to it? As humanely and compassionately, humanely as compassionate lately as we can. because I'm a fiery Aries from the Bronx, like you sent me off and You're going to get a version. That's a little harsher that might be more energetically intense for people in the room.
Yeah. You're a guy from the Bronx
and I've worked on it for years. My whole thing is on softening, been my journey to find more balance with my fire.
Yeah. so that's one tool now, communication. what do you think about radical candor by the way? Cause this that's a different, radical honesty.
I'm not sure if you guys try that route either. I'm just curious, what do you think?
Yeah, just to talk about what I would say is not the rules, it's the structures, of relating is what keeps us together. So it's our potluck dinners twice a week. It's our parenting meeting that we have once a week, as a group of parents in our chairs meeting, where we really get to show ourselves for four minutes and then we get reflected back by the members of the community for two minutes.
And sometimes that's tough love. And sometimes that's just, I see the, your magnificence. But either way, it like, it's better than TV. I promise you it's better than TV.
I could imagine for people who are into it, this is their, this is, our jam.
and then we have a house and a visioning meeting to essentially yeah, to just to cover bigger topics, activism.
what we're caring about, what we, where we want to serve.
Yeah. I love that this is, this is the kind of, community I would be, love to be a part of, there's structure. And is there, implicit or explicit, culture, rules or tools that you use? you have rituals. To focus on different domains, in the, personal side, in the, in the community side, as well as the broader impact side.
So that'd be really beautiful. What are some of the counterintuitive challenges you, if you ask
about radical candor though, and I didn't want to let topic because within the community, like the way we like to see it is can you depersonalize. This whole thing where like in a community, we all play a role.
And sometimes in that community, we ended up playing different roles. So it's just never going to be one thing. so one person might be prone to always want to be the truth teller. They're like the rat, they're the ones who are like, Just always putting it on the table. Like they're, like, Whoa, you just went there one more.
so that's my ex partner. ex-wife Melanie is very much that she is so wow, and honestly, her, partner is, very much, they bring that kind of let me, lay down community. You got this more like paths and the more it's Hey, I'm going to love this. I'm going to love you into submission.
And that's more, yeah, so there'll be other people in the community and there, but there. They're amazing at one thing, but they're also prone to be slippery around truth. And so it's, and so it's a dance and, there's beauty in people who are so in relation that they actually just want you to have the best experience.
And there's so much beauty in the people who are just laying down. And you're freaking just nowhere. It's gonna, it's coming at you and it believe it when I was getting divorced though, was it hard? Was it hard to be loved by that truth? Telling
that's our currency of love, right? Boom, giving you truth.
If they don't love you, they wouldn't give you truth, so to speak, right?
Yeah. But it's always, but that's not always the love language. And certainly in times where you're most struggling. I think, we need to be seen appreciated love before we're just banged with truth.
Yeah. I a hundred percent agree.
I have a reputation for whatever reason. People think that I have a reputation of being that truth teller. I don't mean to, but it, I, it's, whatever I share is share with love. Yeah, but in terms of relationships, in my mind is, it's, one of the most transformational.
Path that one could take. by being married with someone it's, a long-term committed relationship. It's, hella difficult, right? It doesn't matter who you are. I don't care. and I would say to have 15 people. In that's making it's almost like polyamorous as right. Is it difficult enough to be one person polyamorous be with the multiple people that's making the exponentially more difficult?
anything else you'd like to share about the counterintuitive benefits or the costs around being that intentional community?
it changed my relationship with my dog in that I. My dog fell in love, with Ben Hart and Jayna. I shared, my dog Jayna. So things that we, it's not easy to share your dog, but yeah, by all these amazing people and my dog fell in love.
and so I smile, but there's actually there's a loss in that. with everything that's amazing. There's Al there's a loss and I don't want to like, just paint rosy, when, you go from a dyad of two people to a community, something changes and that either brings you closer together, or it brings you further apart or, it does something.
But it's, a catalyst. And I just don't want to, if you are thinking about community, you are in for quite an op rooting of what as your life. So do not do it casually, do not do it lightly, do with your heart wide open and with just an intention of doing things, in a loving way.
Okay. Now that's a great segue. like I said, a lot of, people are thinking about it. They're talking about it. They're envisioning it. Are there again, knowing what you know, now being dispersed six years. other ways to ease into it instead of just jumping into the deep end, spending whatever millions of dollars to get a compound and just Oh, let's create a project together because a lot of people I talk to are thinking that already, are there ways that you can ease into what you've created?
Yeah. I think that the structures in many ways, the, structures of a, art share meeting and a parenting meeting. And even if you just did that amongst your, whoever you thought you might want to live with in the future, and you actually held onto a structure and you to, these, those kinds of meetings weekly builds.
Like over time, those people know you, they've seen you, they've been on the journey with you. They've seen your ups and your downs. They can remind you that, Oh, just last week you were super depressed and this week you are jumping for joy. Like how, how, things change when you, they're least expected, And, yeah, I just, I think we need more meetings. Not to work, not meetings to, but meetings, just to show who we are, the group of people that we love.
Yeah. Most meetings are very singular domain focused for, let's say a business mastermind or relationship, whatever, or, some kind of support group of some sort, a men's group women's group, whatever domain thing.
And, but living together is holistic. So, would you recommend to just, whoever you're thinking about living together, start to have these type of domain specific meetings, or just be more of a holistic meeting right away?
Yeah. I would go towards a men's type of men's women's group orientation versus.
business mastermind it's really, you want meetings that are about connection and trust building and knowing the real needs.
Cool. Thank you for sharing this. This is, really great. any other resource you want to share for anyone, who are thinking about creating their own intentional community? Who has maybe some of the. Thought leaders, practitioners, or names that you may have come across?
Yeah. I, to Mera is a, community in Portugal of around 200 people.
They do a lot of piecework there really well in visiting them and learning from them, walking the talk. And we, We learned what the forum style of sharing of kind of entering the center of a circle and sharing your heart. And, yeah, we just have, they've been, really helpful in, their leadership.
So they've got teachings on their website.
Yeah. Oh, great. Thank you. I'll make sure to include this link. So this is our particular interest in me, also a lot of people, because if you really think about the broader trends of, I don't know if you saw the movie social dilemma yet, but, the, sense of isolation, social isolation, social distancing, even.
creates a lot of anger and anxiety. And, I think you had talked about it in some of your previous talks that you share online is the source of trauma suffering. If you, ex you know, come back to the, sort of the root of suffering, a huge part of it is this lack of connection, the lack of community, lack of relationships, lack of intimacy.
So I think intentional living orientational communities could be not the only solution, but could be a great solution for, this hypergrowth culture that we're living. So I'm curious to know if you, since you are a technologist as well, you feel like this kind of intentional community could be scalable, quote, unquote or duplicated in elsewhere.
Yeah. that's, I, hope so. And this is where I'm, hoping that people even virtually start creating structures that build real connection. the problem is architecture and believe me, I'm, scouring for opportunities to build good, something that represents more of a village, but it's.
Right now it's, looking like a, multi five-year project and we're going towards it. We're, moving towards it, but it's, years into the future. It's going to cost money. It's going to, it's not a replicable thing right now, but can we start, learning how to relate with our neighbors?
Can we start sharing? moving towards centralized food, water, and energy in our local area and learn how to collaborate amongst each other for our basic safety needs. like that, feels inspiring to me. So even if you get 20% of people engaged in this, it's going to glue the community.
You don't need everyone acting like everything. But we need more than we have right now. It's way too disconnected. We haven't, people taught people how to be citizens, collaborative citizens.
Yeah. There is certainly hardware and as well as software. yeah, I like to use that analogy because it's easier for, my brain.
when I see a lot of the co-living projects, they mostly just focus on the hardware, Basically turn it into dorms for adults, basically. And it's very, void devoid of this culture, this richness that you're talking about. And then what we've been discussing is more of the software side of things, right?
This is code is culture, this rituals, this, ways of relating with one another. This is a ways of communicating with one another, this ways of resolving conflicts, per se. yeah. So, when you think about it, what is the, a good place to, start? Is it. Probably software's a more challenging problem.
Is that why that you focus on the software more and then say the hardware part?
I, think it's a great question. I think it starts with software because it's about putting yourself in environments where you're building community, you're building even the inspiration to want to be around these people.
So for me, it was networking in these poaching and business groups. And meeting people who are like trying to live into a more inspired version of themselves and live into a more inspired way of doing a career. And I was like, Whoa, this is a whole other game. This is not the, Oh, living the dream, but really resentful.
No, these are people who are actually trying to do it. And I was like, I wanna, I want to amplify that. I want to be that I want that. And that was 10 years ago.
Yeah. We'll get into that a little bit more like honing on the, in the intentional community part just a little bit more. so I love Bernie man.
You and I were both burners, right? I think Bernie Mitt works so well because let's be Frank. There is a, I can't speak for you a speed for me. it's. It's, limited in duration. it's two weeks at best, One week to two weeks. So I know that, I get to come back to my own cocoon, my own default world, quote unquote.
so therefore I'm happy to take on a new way of being new way of acting new of expression, your way of being generous and compassionate, all of that. So I'm curious to know, I think intentional community works could work really, well when there is a term limit. that maybe, a month or two months or however long, I don't know what the duration is.
So people can feel free to lean in or lean out based on their own needs. Versus I got to commit dollar amount of time, energy, emotions to this particular community right away. It's all or nothing. So I'm curious to know if you feel like there is a. Gradation that could be possible, not to cheapen the concept of intentional community, but more think of it like, not Airbnb, but more of there's a term.
Yeah. That's fun. That's exciting. for us, the parenting has been the glue and was the, in many ways, the glue of this idea of raising your kids and community, and it takes a village and the benefit of having all this perspective of different adults who, I think it's priceless for my children.
It's why I do it. It's why I still am in. I would have exited when I got divorced, the only thing keeping me in. So it was the. Was what I believe was most serving for my children.
So when you bring up these kinds of things, Oh, try on community for a month or two. Sure. If you're single, why not?
But if you're not and you're, anchoring your family, it's a hard thing to dabble it.
either lean in or do your thing.
I appreciate that. Thank you. Okay. So there's a lot that I can ask you about just a variety of things. why don't we issue you go to your, life's mission cause you've been doing, HCI for, many years. And you said 10 years, right? And
it's HCI six years. but just my path to wanting to live it differently and getting inspired by people, living it differently, it was 10 years.
Got it. Yeah, but this passion to empower, health coaches to thrive in health in community and in your life, you've been on this mission for quite a few years. Can you share with us a little bit about the origin story of why and or how you found this dharmic path?
Oh, yay. Thanks for asking that. Yeah, I, bring it back to meeting a health coach in New York city and being inspired by who she was and how bright she was and how she was just doing this. Just any, everything she did was enticing to me. I was like, Oh my goodness, like running a wellness center, running events, going to these burning man parties.
That's how I get a found a burning man. And then I got me to burning man meeting, all hope. My goodness. Not, only was it her, but there's a whole slew of people that are right. And possibility driven and, it's like we found each other and then I was, like, wow, I want to bring. More of this into my default world, because I'm running a New York city agency.
I'm in very much the grind and the hustle of that, managing a pretty large team and in a tough industry, very competitive industry. And I didn't want to do it anymore. I was like, I was hungry for change and, Met these people and realized like I should be putting my marketing to this, like the things they're about and what they're focusing on and what education products they're creating is more what I want to see pushed out into the world.
and yeah, I joined, essentially a business and coaching group. Called mind, money, meaning. And, and I met all these amazing people and the people they were inspired by. And so this piggyback effect of inspiring people, knowing and learning from other inspiring people. And so all of a sudden, my world goes from feeling small, where.
I don't know. I basically know the world that is to Holy cow. Like the whole world is my oyster. And, in that I got exposed to, the idea of, taking a trip to Peru and exploring this incredible experience with Ayahuasca and, and San Pedro.
Yeah, go ahead.
And again, like the seeker in me, I, I guess I was, I had reached the materials. and I wasn't fulfilled. You had that dharmic thing you believe there was something hungry. I had a hunger in me who was seeking and so much so that I was willing to go to Peru and take this thing.
That's going to make me throw up. What am I doing in hindsight, I look at that, I'm running this New York city agency and I'm going to Peru and doing these like experiences. But I actually went with my ex-wife now at the time. And several other purpose driven entrepreneurs that I'm still friends with today.
And that life, that trip step the course of what happened next. No, that was good. Probably nine years ago now. and
okay. Okay. So before we move forward of the trip, like what actually transpire for you? what was your mental state at the time? What did you hope to get out of it? And what was the experience and what did you receive going to the led Memorial details?
that'd be really helpful
cause we do talk about it by the way on this podcast, quite a lot. I want SCA this and that. So feel free to say anything. And this is, the audience that, welcome this, type of conversation.
Yeah. I guess I, was looking for answers and I got answers.
Go figure. I went down, wanting to know, what to do with my life. and, the answer I got was that it's not about what you're doing. It's about how you're doing it. You do with love. You'll be yessed
and I can't tell you how much faith that brought to my heart. When I look back of knowing that it was never about what I was doing, it was always about how I was doing it.
And was they bringing the end of the energetic of love? And if, I was, then it was trustable. And if I wasn't that I knew I needed you to do my
How do you discern if it's love or not?
Is my heart open or not. Like I thought there's a contraction, feels like contraction. It's tight. It's shallower breath, expansion feels more expansive.
It feels like you take deeper breaths. It's usually slowing down. There's a rhythm of nature. It's usually aligning more to that.
you could feel it when, you get defensive, like your heart contracts. yeah. I, it's that idea of opening your heart is a hard one to describe, but one that I think we, know it when we feel it.
Yeah. I want to. Use languages, which articulated, cause what we're describing it is a very subjective experience for sure.
But I think the more that's one of the reasons why I will ask people to describe their subjective experience here on this podcast, because I think the more we describe it, the more, my audience, my guests, myself have language actually described that is, and then the more we can describe it, the more, the more precise we can be.
As well as the more normal I needed somebody to talk about our, to our friends and so forth. That's why I asked those specific questions. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. because for me, I, share a little bit about, myself, Chinese immigrant. Train as a PhD scientist, this is pretty as heady as it comes.
I really had to learn the lesson, operating purely in my head. I was numb for the decades, I couldn't even feel anything. And yet I was yearning for, this feeling of being alive. And that's why I love peak experiences. I just didn't have the language for it. And it wasn't until I actually had my ayahuasca experience, I really had this visceral experience of Holy shit, this is what it means to, have this, heart opening experience.
And I, if you'd had talked to me about heart opening experience, Before that we're like, what do you mean? I have no idea what you're talking about, but it is a very visceral experience of, as you said, this experience of being totally expanded the mind, the heart, the body, and the spirit, and, to be truly grateful, and it was uncomfortable for me at first. As any new experiences maybe, but after a while, it's, normal. And I wouldn't have any, other way right. To, exert a little bit of effort to open my heart. Versus it's very, easy for me to just close and again, go back to my head and, focus on whatever strategies and this and that.
Yeah, Everything you said. I so resonate with as well. And it's, I'm humbled every day and by my, wanting to contract and flying to isolate and, wanting to feel alone, I think there's, I think it's just, and every day is a journey to reopen my heart and find ways that make me do that.
And it's so worth it too. Cause I, for the younger CK, who's listening to this who may be thinking, what are you talking about? What the fuck is this? I would say, Hey, try it, on now, what do you have to lose? Try and breathe a little bit deeper and feel a little bit.
feel a little bit deeper and then be a little bit more open, be more aware of what's happening around you as well. because, knowing what I know now, this connection, this intimacy to oneself, this intimacy, this connection to another is richness. It's what life is about versus. again, speaking to the younger CK, what you were chasing, the achiever and the accomplishment and the accolades, these are all proxies to this.
So rather than going for the proxy, why did you just go directly to this? Yeah, it's a lot simpler, a lot more direct than you may think. So the younger CK listening to this who think this may be will, bullshit you and just try it out. And what do you have to lose?
Do you have any tools by the way that you could show it with us?
Cause I know in some of the podcasts that you are not podcasts or a speech that you have made on YouTube, doing my research, you had talked about how you were born in Bronx and, how you learned to open your heart. So giving that is pretty, are there tools that you can share with them, the younger CK and Eric, so then they can learn and practice to be in their heart.
I'll, just go back to the experience in Peru. My first ceremony, where, what the medicine showed me was what it viscerally felt like. To experience the words that I was saying to myself. So it's like, when I said to myself, I don't know if you want to throw up. So I could say that now.
And we say it all the time. I don't know whatever in ceremony I wanted to throw up every time I said, I don't know. Why is that?
Why is that?
Because it was showing me that you're just infusing yourself with doubt and to replace. I don't know if I wonder, what a different energetic and, and just, it's more playful and that idea, it's like, it's not about what you're doing.
It's about how you're doing it. So you're bringing wonder, you don't have to know.
ultimately landing. I like, I trust myself. I trust myself because it was too painful not to. I think we've, like almost habituated this way of not trusting ourselves. It's actually good thinking to not trust yourself. You're smarter. When you add more doubt. To your situation. What about this?
What if this happened? What if this, but, and so the, ability to land that what's true, I trust myself is, is when, you think about tools, what tools help you get to that place of, I trust myself. And so I'm sure cutting this. Cause in this case ayahuasca helped me get to a place of Oh my God, I didn't even know how much doubt I was filling myself with until that ceremony.
But once I was aware, then it's now I'm just seeing the gap between who I am and who I'd like to be. And I think so what's the risk of doing these ceremonies. It's seeing that gap.
I am and who I want to be. And it's, that's humbling. It's just a humbling journey, but you know what, we're better off when we're humbled.
We really are this righteous. Like I know it and I don't do anything wrong and every, that's nonsense. And, the sooner we actually say I am, a flawed human. Like everyone else it's this life game is hard. and therefore, like I'm going to bring myself the same level of compassion that I'd wish to be brought.
And, yeah, I guess ultimately, you, asked about tools, every tool in the book. Every tool in the book, you name it, I'm doing it or integrating it or not, but it's a, and it always evolves. But to the point where, I have a magic wand, like I have a what is that? I'm a, dude from the Bronx.
Like I'm showing you a magic wand, but. When I'm when, it's time for me to stand and be strong when the world like doubts you. Cause that's what you gotta do. If you're going to actually create a movement, yeah. Bring every tool in. From plant medicine to, hanging upside down on an inversion table to creating an entire environment based on wellness.
That's a Biomet accrue amethyst, crystal biomed in the background. My piano is, how I meditate. I, used, lots of things for, my back and my spine to really bring openness there and my chest and my heart. And so I love this call, the universal need, that, allows that I, run up my spine.
so yeah, like what tools is just. I live in community. We have anchored in potluck twice a week and yoga twice a week. And so there's things that like my life, I, work out with a coach twice a week, so my whole life is built around me being healthy and my heart being open, but it takes work.
Yeah. So many things I can say about that.
Where do we begin? huh. yeah. Thank you for sharing those tools in the reason why I, went right there, not because, Hey, there is some magic bullet out there. That's not the point, but it makes it a little bit more tangible, a little bit more practical, sharing anyone, the younger CK and Eric who wants to take on this as their path, who was inspired by your story can say, Oh, okay.
I can start out by having. a back massager or, biomass or, getting, learn about radical candor slash what was the other one that you said communication. Exactly. These are all ways that one can relate to oneself in or, another human being. And then, and if he. Is ready.
Then you can say, Hey, I want to, take on Ayahuascaas well, right? Yeah. from my point of view, Ayahuasca is a beautiful catalyst, to hyper-reality it lives this, any kind of illusions that when may have any kind of, yeah, any kind of illusions. I want me to have about all of the constructs that. the younger CK may have inherited from his culture, from his gender, from his parents, from his education from even just, the people that he interacted with and actually see and watch and look and say, do I, want to continue to live life that way?
at the end of the ceremony is that as an example, and one of the reasons why. this medicine path is, something that I truly believe it. Yeah. Yeah.
For me, it's it showed me like a way that I wanted to get to by any means necessary. Like I wanted to operate from love and an open heart and to trust myself by any means necessary.
And I think I want to get that across to my younger self that you open your heart by any means necessary every day, whatever it takes. That's your work. That's your only work because when your heart is open, everything else in life works out. Your partnership works out. Your family works out. So your job is to open your heart.
And this illusion of, don't do this and don't take this F all that. No, you take advantage of all the resources that your heart knows is true. Yeah.
I like that. I can see a little bit of a New York coming out just now. So thank you.
Yeah, I got to talk to myself that way sometimes.
And then do, what works.
Do what works. I love that. yeah. So I love the question that you asked in your TEDx talk. I believe that's where you did and who do you want to be your hero for? And you've chosen to be a hero for people who care. And you also shared that, you felt that you weren't tough enough.
Can you share a little bit with us a little bit about that growing up?
Yeah, I grew up in the Bronx. I was, just a small, skinny sensitive kid and I think I, yeah, it just, I was nervous. Like I had a lot of energy and I like, I, probably, Probably looked like an easy target in certain ways, but relative to other boys and the guy, and I was diagnosed with epilepsy when I was like seven put on medication, that slowed me down academically and athletically.
and in hindsight, I'm just like, Oh man, like why, was I being medicated? Why, did it have to. Why did it go there? And I took medication till I was 14 or so. And, but ultimately this was like the beginning of this trusting of myself. Like I wasn't trustable, like my body wasn't trustable in term.
It's just sure.
you have a halo
either. Let it be.
Yeah. this idea that I needed medication for my body to function otherwise, who knows what could happen. It's like the beginning of like, this body is entrustable and and I think also, I, being slower, it's like the little chip on my shoulder of something to prove and, yeah, just this combination of not trusting myself and needing to prove myself or needing to justify being slower.
Yeah. So I guess the I, but I had a lot of grit and I had a lot of will and I ultimately always found a way to, rise above per se. I was valedictorian in my high school and, just whatever I needed to like do I did, and I didn't get into any of the, Competitive schools in New York.
Cause I couldn't, because I didn't time for the, I couldn't time for the test. I couldn't take chat time tests like that. and so again, it was a little bit of the terribly on my SATs. But I saw it on his grit, but you put a, give me a standardized anything and I don't fit the mold. And so yeah, what I say to my younger self is break all the rules, break the mold, like you're different.
So it was actually a gift and a blessing that you weren't gifted, quote unquote, you know, that you were smaller that you, had epilepsy. These were actually gifts to you, such that you can be more competitive, be more rebellious, right. Going against the status quo, per se. Would you say that's accurate is a little bit of a leading question, but
I actually didn't see myself as competitive.
I yeah, I was. I guess I,
yeah, I'm competitive. I think there's like a way that I'm like, I'm going to figure out a way to win. Yeah. Even though I, yeah, I have this disadvantage.
So the question that I think a lot of the high achievers, especially you do think about an ask is, Hey, medicine journey is gray. You want to soften the heart.
It's gray wanted to be more heart-centered is great, but I want to lose my edge. I don't want to lose my, competitiveness, my, desire, my main ambition. My, desire to change the world. but what, would you say to that? Because you, it feels yeah, go ahead.
And that's actually, that's totally how I found my edge was by standing for by open heart.
that's the. That's the thing, like why do people partner with me and build huge organizations? Because they know this thing is true. They know this is real. It's not because I'm like strategic chatted, jiving, everything like some puppet master. that's not what works. It's not being smarter than everyone.
That's not what works is being, it's, it is. It's all the things that happen when your heart is open. That's how it works. So I think, this illusion of studying harder than everyone and because I did it, did it like I've done all that. It's not that's not why I'm winning. I'm not winning because I valedictorian I'm not winning because I was top of Cornell.
Like that, wasn't what it's about. And I just want to, I want to anchor that home to people who think like good, these filters that we've created in our society, that judge ourselves matter. They don't.
Yeah. I w I want to talk, elaborate on that just a little bit, right? The lesson is I totally get the whole
idea because your heart is open. You're going to not care because your heart is open. I think that's crazy. I think because your heart is open, you're actually going to have the insurance policy of caring when you care.
That's that's the thing that's actually going to get you up. yeah, you can, care to compete like competing is if, like if competing is in your blood, use it, wisely. use it for good. I think that's the, like the thing I'm standing for, I'm saying use every tool in the book.
Just use it for good. And the good comes from open heart is the good reveals itself when your heart is open and don't apply your competitiveness to just anything, apply it to the game that matters for you.
Yeah. let me, contextualize this for myself then, and then you can chime in if you agree or disagree.
Okay. So the way I see it is this, In the simplest form, the head is about the ego in its simplest form. it's a great tool for the ego. The heart is more of the soul, And, how do I contextualize it if I just purely focus on what my ego wants, that may be great. I may have the achievement and accomplishment, the accolades and all these things and money.
And at the same time, I may be no man. I've experienced that. Maybe I, experienced. Spiritual poverty because I didn't follow what I really wanted to do. Now. I'm not saying to just focus on, your heart either, right? Use both use all your tools to have great. You create the life that you want to do, to be successful and to be fulfilled and, These tools and from my point of view, and they, there's a great quote that says that the mind is a great, is a terrible master. It's a great, I can't remember exactly. I'm paraphrasing. The mind is a great slave, but a terrible master, I think paraphrasing. So, the ambition for the people who are listening to younger CK, especially who is highly ambitious, Your ambitions won't go away just because you're more in tune of what you, your soul desires, what you really want to do.
Yes. It actually just allows you to target your weapon.
Correct. Correct. So then that way you're, you can be a great guy, a steward of all your, resources. I'm mixing metaphors a lot here. Your soul is the elephant rider, right? The elephant is all your boots. Yeah.
Super practical right now because it's, so now you get to.
Choose your, where to put your weapon. And because you have LinkedIn, you can literally target any person you want to reach and know exactly like what you're going for, because you're listening to this wisdom speaking, right? It's you're you're and you bring that truth to someone. They feel it, they know it.
Oh, shoot. Hey, I'm inspired by your work. I resonate with it. I want to serve, reach out to somebody over LinkedIn like that, and you're going to get a response most of the time. And that means you could reach out literally and have conversations with nearly anyone if it's coming from a place of,
and I guess that's where yeah, when you know, W how to apply your mind. You get to be so much more powerful with it. Yeah.
Thank you for that. Who, from your perspective, embodies that person, that practitioner, that health coach, that thought leader who not only operate from the heart, but also have very powerful hands as well.
Yeah, that they can also use these type of technologies and platforms as a way to create the kind of impact they want to create. Are there ones people that, you saw are like, Oh wow. I'm really impressed and inspired by this particular human being, doing this thing.
Yeah. you bring up, that was the Genesis in many ways of health coaches, the tude, ultimately to go back to your original question there, like I, I was on a quest of, working with and checking out thought leaders.
Like I was basically trying to generate leads for thought leaders. But doing that, like one off doesn't work. Cause those thought leaders don't have the engine to really monetize those leads to put business, speak into this. so realizing that, Oh wow. I really need to create the whole thing. The engine, because it's a, really, this is about, distribution and customer acquisition.
And if you're going to do that, it's not just about content and ideas. And thoughts. It's you need to create the engine of distribution and it was now is okay. So we're doing that. How do we best apply that engine? And, yeah, got introduced to Stacey and Carey through this, masterminding, that I, was doing and went to their live event and I was blown away.
Like I was just like, ah, this is this is, a little form of heaven. You got all these empowered women, mostly, right? It's 90%. And. And they're collaborating and they're sharing all their exact strategies, like exact tactics, completely paying it forward. no kimono, completely open tourney, everything that happens that would be wrong into a lesson and a teaching lesson.
And so modeling everything they're doing built into the thing they're teaching. I just thought it was brilliant. I was like, this is, brilliant. And so yeah, committed to partnering with them and amplifying what they were teaching. And ultimately the Genesis of this though, was believing in coaching that ultimately I met a lot of coaches that I'm inspired by, and it was through, it was, through the impact of coaching on my.
My, the steering of my mind, ultimately, Sorry. The steer coaching helped me steer my mind. Yeah. It just, it helped me be efficient with using my mind for what matters to me. And, I wanted to see that as a discipline, just I want, I, think, healthcare should be mostly coach coaching. We spend trillions of dollars on healthcare and we spend almost nothing on that.
So the world, I think we should be building looks so different than what is,
and I, yeah, just one step at a time, one person at a time and starts with me and am I being, a human that cares and that is standing for what matters. And then, yeah, I, yeah.
I get to expansive with world change. I got to come back to me.
Yeah. You didn't say this, but, almost feels like coaching is a as a human right. Read the world healthcare.
I think it's the, you brought up like, is it hardware, software? What is the soft skills that we need? I think we need to work with our inner child and our, that didn't get parented the way we would have wished by not only our parents, but by society.
And so coaching is how I, how, I talk to myself, how I lead myself to better decisions. How I make better moves that aren't very hard. No, they don't take a lot of time. They just take a lot of guts.
Yeah. if you really think about it, most of the actions that we asked coaching clients to take on, they're actually not difficult.
What makes it difficult is the internal resistance. The fears that's made up the constructive things as New did they try to do everything else? But this thing that we asked them to do,
Oh yeah, I gotta do this,
So I'm curious to know from your perspective, let's see, what do I begin there?
There's a lot of questions I could ask. are there technologies that from your point of view that can augment this whole world of coaching? let's say AI based coaching or, AI based questionnaires. So that way we can,
I've, explored it. I've invested in it.
I've created versions of it. I think they're assists. I think ultimately the most powerful thing we could use technology for is nudging. Get people to the appointment, go live, get people to the thing showing up is so much of it. And I don't know, I don't buy that, technology. We're going to, why would we be motivated to serve a technology?
Maybe, because it gets socially shared. And if we don't show up, we're going to not, I don't, I haven't seen it yet. I think we show up for each other. I think I don't want to let you down CK because I respect you. I respect you. I don't want to waste your time. You're not investing in me because you have no choice.
Like, this is co-created and like you've bet on me. Like I bet on myself.
I like that. Yeah. I'm a recovering cerebrally, right? I, see technologies that amplifier as a multiplier, it certainly doesn't replace or displace, human functions, but it's a great way to make some of the.
Shall we say lesser important tasks, delicate that a way through technology per se. So when I ask questions like, AIS is, therapist or things like that, these are just some of the technological side of me think about, can we, and can we outsource maybe some of the nonsense and things?
I think, I came across a Ted talk that actually talked about. human beings are funny. so I think there is an AI bot or some sort, essentially they play, AI best friend basically. And people share really intimate things to AI bot, even though they know that it's a machine because precisely because it's a machine because the machine, wouldn't judge them.
So that way they are actually able to be more vulnerable and open because they can just share openly because then they know that the other side, there's no judgment there, but it's an interesting dichotomy. we do want to interact with a human at the same time. I also want to know that I won't be judged, for, whatever fucked up ideas I have about the world or myself.
Yeah. Great points. And each their own. I guess I'm, I have found that we probably can, land at a place where AI is really doing a lot of the work, but I think to get at the initial, real deep work of resolving in our conflict. And, just, I think to feel, to be seen is to be loved. And I don't, experience being seen by an AI.
But I'm not, imposing myself. I'm just,
yeah. Yeah, no, that's a really good point. I haven't felt seen by AI bot either. And in fact, if I ever notice, I'm talking to AI, on the phone, then I'm like, okay, whatever,
I can not care about you for me care is still at the, like at the. The baseline of why, what value is
Especially coaching, right? It's not a utility, it's a, human thing. I'm sharing sort of the internal content of my mind and really the most intimate part. The most fucked up part, right? The, most primal, the most fear, whatever it may be to another human being as a way to.
Purge as a way to alleviate this internal pressure that I have no other ways of purging. Yeah.
Yeah. Or just having a conversation with one part in another of Oh, why is this angry, righteous person in there? What are their needs? What are, they here for? What, how have they protected me?
So what are some of the ways, cause I knew you had talked about nudging and really, I think you also talked about behavior shift, right?
Or habit shift. What have you, stumble upon? That's been really useful to really make habits stick because if you look at the most human beings, they make nearest resolution. But by January six, seven or, on the 14th, new years resolution has gone. So what have you discovered around habit changing or nudging that seem to be really useful?
It's really, I guess on a, metal level is like our whole life is built around rewards and incentives to create the behavior. We want the, we, Get points or get money or, yeah. Get, friends to, look a certain way. So it's external validation and in many ways like COVID, and it's taken away a lot of the external stuff.
So now it's what is the real driver here? I think that's much more sustainable as intrinsic motivation. We believe intrinsic motivation gets unlocked by, getting clear on why people do what they do. So asking, what matters to you and why what's important to you and why, and helping people unlock their intrinsic motivation for change.
Is a much more sustainable way. And this is proven with, motivational interviewing and the research around using that to help people who are addicted. It's because ultimately you're not going to tell me to do anything and I'm not going to tell myself to do anything at this point. I've broken that trust way too many times.
So can you say more about that? Just
like this. It's been all rewards, incentives, punishment, rewards. We don't trust ourselves. We congratulate ourselves or beat ourselves
from the outside, or we fear it from the outside, but we're not actually like generative where it's I do this because my body feel so ethin alive when I'm doing it. And w that's priceless. So I think, the biggest piece around habit change is getting clear. So journaling, like just why, does it matter?
But this is where I believe in personal development. I believe in workshops, I believe doing the work curriculum of some story that has you, Asking your, you reel the cross. The questions that really matter. Like I, I, I found Tony Robbins back in 1998 through, tapes that my brother shared with me totally changed my world.
Just exposed me to ease of using this brain again. That allowed me to use it for me not to be used against me.
Yeah. Like that. So from your point of view, in getting to the core of the intrinsic motivation and really journaling is a great tool to get to the source of the why is that accurate recap of what you just said?
Yeah, that's a, great recap. Yeah.
Cool. so one thing, one model that we share on this podcast a lot is if you think about consciousness, as a concentric circle, There are four layers, right? One is the outer layers perception. What I think you think of me and the next layer down is personality.
What I want you to think of me? The next layer down is identity. I think of me and the next layer down is, that super consciousness or awareness? the, ever-present observer. So what you're describing as a journaling, as a, way to keep asking yourself that question, why, as a way to dig deeper past these different layers or slash constructs.
great. Yeah. I find journaling. So healing from a, like a purging of grief, a purging of anger, like shoo. almost to the point where it's, when I'm really going through it, it's the only thing that I can do to relieve what would feels like crazy tension that is singing,
great. Say more about that. You were speaking to a, aspiring singer, right? Not a professional singer, but are you speaking to, as far as here?
When I was going through my divorce, the only thing I could do to keep my heart open was hum that I was all the time. Like I was so angry and my mind would go into thoughts of whatever betrayal, loss, anger, , what's wrong with all the unfairness that I, the only thing I could do was hump.
And it was just like, it was like this light vibration within my body that reminded like my heart to stay open don't figure
and home. Anything specific or just home. Yeah.
Yeah. I do play piano, so I do, I tend to have a lot of songs in my head all the time and, but they tend to be simple. They like, I, Yeah.
I have a grief song that I created. and that was like, that goes well,
And then just go with it, just keep it, and, roll with it and go bigger and bigger until, you can't think through that, you just you're just expanding.
I like it. So no words, a conjure up certain emotions, and then you go bigger and bigger as a way to allow yourself to purge the internal, neurotic emotions or thoughts.
that are relentless, thoughts.
The one thing I actually, started to do this is, sharing publicly. I'm sharing with you now is this concept of, emotional Tabata. Do you know the physical exercise called tabata
Cool. So invented by this Japanese guy with last name Tabata, hence the word has the ritual protocol tabata.
The whole idea is, 20 seconds on 10 seconds off for a total of eight rounds. So total will be four minutes. So you do 20 seconds on of any kind of high intensity exercise, right? Whether it's boxing, pushups, burpees. Whatever it is that you love to do. And it's high intensity in 20 seconds on 10 seconds off for a total of eight rounds.
And it's, according to the creator is one of the most efficient, exercise that one could do. So similarly, I do that for emotions as a way to shift my way of being slash emotions.
would be, let's say a joy practice being joyous for 10, 20 seconds, 10 seconds off, or rage, 20 seconds on 10 seconds off a total of eight rounds.
And why did that, like that's weird, right? Why, do you want to do that CK? for me as someone who is. I, feel ways of being emotions, our thoughts, even our spirit, there are like muscles, right? So if we go to the gym to exercise our muscle, similarly, we can also exercise our emotionality.
We can exercise those ways of being as well. So that way, when the circumstances calls for. ways of being, or emotions. I'm, no longer, uncomfortable because it's outside of my range.
Yeah. And I've been doing this emotional and tabata for the last. few weeks, it has been tremendous. I actually really, enjoy it. And it also is a great self-regulating tool. It's also great for any kind of, purging as well, because you can just right away, extend that range of emotionality.
what are the, what's the series? Do you have a sequence of emotions that you go through?
So think of it more, just purging or whatever you're dealing with as an example. So
yeah, so, let's say for the, purpose of, extending my emotionality as an example, so I actually switch off from joy to rage back and forth.
So 20 it's, 20 seconds, joy, 10 seconds rest. 20 seconds, rage, 10 seconds rest went back and forth.
All right. Now in this moment. Yeah. No, it's loud. Yeah. It's loud. Yeah. But I'm happy to show you after the podcast.
Yeah. So the whole idea of it is, to bring it to a hundred percent, whatever the a hundred percent looks like in the whole point against think about physical exercise.
The point is to push. Your range, right? Say if you can only lift five pounds, great. go, let's say six pounds, not a little bit more, a little bit more so that way at the end of it, because of this quote-unquote acute stress, you can actually self-regulate your physical machinery, right? So this is a way to do it. I love
that it reminds me of the haka in, New Zealand haka, just the primal dance. And I do that on the trampoline with my kids,
be like, Ooh, like on the trampoline though. So I'm jumping like crazy, but I feel amazing after doing that.
Yeah, Really tapping into that primal aspects of who we are, especially as men, I think is very important. especially the whole idea of tapping into the, rage and anger side of things.
I don't think we do it enough now doing it in a healthy way. Of course. If we can, again, tap into that primal that, root chakra energy it's, part of who we are as men, our masculine.
Sorry. I know it's, I have a lot of passion for men's work. haven't lived into that one yet to the degree that I'd like, I've participated in men's groups for years and obviously, do what I do, but, I think there's more when I think about what we need as men and how we're ah, we're just not being, there's no structures to really serve.
How hard it is to be a man right now from my, from, my vantage point, relative to how we were raised, like Lee raised, what we're required to do now, the level of flexibility and behavioral flexibility and emotional flexibility that we're supposed to take on. Now, I think it's a lot to ask for and we need, help.
Yeah. Say more about that. Have you come across, what have you come across to be the most useful for you personally, in terms of, finding that balance between one's masculine and feminine, especially as a man,
I've been part of men's group for at least. Eight nine years from New York city changes, different groups, over the years.
But that just that place where you get super real with other men, I think is priceless. I think it's just really helpful because you get, perspective from a group of people that are. either it's going to be something that like you learn from, or, something you forgot that gets re reflected back to you.
And for me, I, credits like Mike and my staying in on the men's group with staying in community and ultimately continuing to co-parent with my ex-wife. I don't think I would've done that. I think I would've made it may. I think I might've made moves that were just coming from a really contracted hard place.
And, it, the men's group that I was part of reflected that back to me. it's sometimes when things are hard, it's easy to anchor back on power and control. And I was told that, you can have all the power in the world, you just can never use it.
Say more about that. What do you mean?
if you use your power in a way that doesn't work for others, you lose all trust. So yeah. You might get what you want, but you lost.
Yeah. You'll, penny-wise, pound-foolish.
Yeah. And, but, that's any, we fight so hard for power in this world. And then when we get it, we realize we can never use it.
That's the irony, because if you actually use your power in a way that is not in collaboration, you're basically creating enemies. And so it's this dance of, yeah. powered good. We want more and more heart centered people in power, making good decisions for themselves than others, but ultimately you can also shortcut to just collaborating with good people and trust that power comes from that.
I would say that to myself, Eric younger self Eric, you don't have to work so hard for power. You can actually just shortcut it and be a good human.
Can you actually make it more concrete? principal. Yeah. What you're saying, but how do you, how, do you shortcut it to work with other
kind of building. For me, it was like needing to build all these organizations and this capital and this money to like was, was actually not what I was going after in some ways. It was like going, I was going after the ability to move the world in a way that was aligned with my heart and live my own life in a way that was aligned with my heart.
That's what I was going after. And I didn't have to build all that to have that I could have just gone after that. You want to build, you're inspired by these people doing this thing. go get carry. You don't have to build that yourself and control it, or, you don't like, you don't always have to do it all to get someplace.
And I, think my life really Things lock. When you look at everything as partnership, I don't know, need to know media buying to the degree I used to 20 years ago. Like I did, because I get to partner on that.
I see. So you don't have to basically, master all of the domains in that's in the area of marketing, as an example, you don't need to know, we know the, be a PhD in media buying.
You can actually just partner out with someone who's a domain expert, immediate buy-in is essentially what you're saying. Yeah.
Yeah. And so you don't have to, and you don't have to have all the money before you do the thing. Uou can actually find people who have a similar passion who have money, but they're looking for a young, I'm looking for, that person right now.
I'm looking for my younger self, me to to take the wisdom and potentially my access to resource and distribution and, use it for good. So there's people like younger self Eric there's people like me looking for people like you.
Okay. So let's, jam on that for a moment. younger Eric CK, what would you advise them to do tactically as a way to, use their superpowers for good, with the strategy or with the methodology that you had just shared about through partnership, through opening one's heart.
Yeah. What would you say? Like they have a desire to make a difference in the world then what they do
I would start filtering my world for inspiration. So I would want, what podcast most inspire me. What, education is most inspiring to me and I would reach out to the people over LinkedIn.
To the people that actually inspire you and see if you can have a conversation, because even it's not about what you get from that person, it's about what you learn and you're going to learn. And if you do have that conversation, you're going to learn that people want to help you. They want to introduce you to people they want, particularly like you again, you're coming from a place of inspiration.
That's going to feel good. You cared enough to be inspired by this person's action and you want to learn more about it, so you can do it in the world or learn more about it so you can serve or learn more about it, to learn about other people who might be doing this, whatever you're going for. It's there for you.
You just have to follow the where your inspiration is leading you. What do you want to learn? I guarantee not enough people learning it.
And you get to, pursue it then I that's. Anyhow, I, that's been my motto, I guess of just if I wish for more of it, other people wish for more of it.
Yeah. Let me, share tactically with the younger CK and perhaps I would jot some more ideas from you as well. I was recently, recently, came across, novel Robbie con's writing and he made a point that actually what I thought that was quite, quite, poignant, very, insightful.
He said the whole idea of making an impact is, leverage, right? And then here are some of the things that you can basically make impact while sleep, the use of technology, the use of media. And then, coming from your heart, share your message. It doesn't really matter. What is it that you share?
You can just share your commitment throughout and then through iteration, people would receive your energetic transmission and those that are resonate with you or Richard wished back to you, right? And, then continue on following your internal resonance, makes you feel more alive. so if you enjoy doing podcasting, keep doing that thing, And then, partner with the likes of those mentors that you resonate with and then actually add value to them. So it's not just taking from them, actually add value to them, whether it be. helping them share their, social media, post the message that they're trying to share or introduce a potential hires or investors or partners for them.
So that way. And so these are some of the, easiest way that I see for the younger CK who have a lot of desire, but who don't necessarily yet have the platform to make the kind of impact that he wants to make. Yeah.
I think when I was at all of what you said, and I would add to that is stand for what you believe in and share it.
That's like marketing at the end of the day is just like caring and sharing and the things you're into Eric, the world needs, but they don't know it yet. And so even though people are looking you at like why, what, am I,
what does that do for you? All this doubt, like you knew it was serving you and you could have shared that more boldly. And again, I got there, I'm not, but, there is a way that I knew it and I didn't share it. I knew it. And I kept it to myself. A I just was, I was almost like following people without.
sharing that, I was learning all, getting all this wisdom and not sharing it. and yeah, I felt there was like a selfishness in some ways, too. Like my hoarding of good stuff. Don't whore, good stuff. Share it. And then in the sharing you become a, someone who's, caring enough to share.
That's actually spent a little bit more time on this whole idea of self doubt. I would say, the The nature of lifelong learners is always pushing the limit of our knowledge. And learning by definition is going outside of our knowledge. That's by definition. That's what learning is. Yeah.
if you are a lifelong learner, there's always new things to learn new, humility's and you new understanding and Oh, I didn't know about this before. So by definition, if you're a lifelong learner, you're always at the edge of this. Like I know this by and at the same time, I don't know these other things or, using your language, I wonder right at that edge.
so, for me, self-doubt has always been a quote unquote problem as well. If I look at it as a problem and I, and it was a journey for me to get more and more comfortable in the space of an unknowing in this space of, I wonder in this space of Oh, okay. so what are some of the tools and techniques or mental models that you use as a way to quell?
This idea of self doubt for
Yeah. this is probably my thing. this is the thing, and it's the idea of a 1% moves, always a 1% move that gets you over 50% of the result. And, it actually comes from paraders principle of 80 20. You get into the 80 20 of the 20%. And then the 80 20 of that 4% you got at the 1%, 1% move mathematically and in your personal life, in your business, and all you have to do is that each day, all I needed to do was what I thought was the 1% move for that day.
That's it? Everything else is gravy. And so when you're dealing with self doubt, your, you're thinking too much is prioritizing too much. You're trying to take care of too much. You've over committed yourself. You've said yes to too many things. You haven't said no enough. And you're not giving yourself the time and space to think about what actually matters today.
What's my 1% move in my relationship. What's my world. 1% move in my family. What's my 1% move in my business. And usually it's reaching out to someone, a word like whether it's text or that matters. It's I need a perspective to make the decision. I don't have it. I need to reach out to this person. We need to have a conversation with this person.
I feel like, a disconnect. I feel like I, they did, they misunderstood me and I could feel their tension and they might leave. I need the lead in, on that conversation, even though I want to avoid them. it's, that's it. It's what's the, where are you pretending? Where are you avoiding? That tends to be your 1% move.
I like that. Where are you avoiding? Yeah. Where are you pretending? Where are you? Most uncomfortable?
Yeah. That's it? Because you brought up the comfort zone piece. It's not about necessarily what you know or don't know that makes you uncomfortable. It's putting yourself into a place where you feel strong emotions that are uncomfortable to feel.
And usually that relates to fear of rejection or fear of, activation my, if I, think I'm going to activate you, then I want to avoid that.
But chances are that activation is exactly what this friendship needs.
Bring back know a lot of callback, being that, mirror right there, that truth there, that, you had talked about during vertical candor.
Yeah. Yeah. That, one that
actually, it takes, I don't know about you, but for me, it's, it takes courage and willingness to even risk the relationship to say that. Especially if it's coming from love, not force, not authority. Cause actually much easier to, just withhold, to not say anything.
It is and it's, and that's probably, we talked about self doubt.
It's probably where I have the most out of myself at this point, that dance of what's the right balance of like hard truth and Holding a loving like, center within. And is that coming from judgment or is it coming from patients? Is it coming from resentment? What's it coming from? And can I get clean and until I'm clean, I don't speak radical truth.
So I journal, I get clear, but I just cause it's tricky. Particularly if like intimate relationships, yeah, these are tender, We got tender hearts.
So yeah, I think thoughtful and hold it as sacred and give it the time space and the writing. yeah, radical candor. I think, we could radical candor with a lot of consideration.
I honestly, so we'll come back to the whole idea or the protocols and the tools about self-doubt in a moment, but I want to talk about radical candor for a moment. I'm actually, I think radical candor. It's like the idea of communism. It's a really good idea on paper, but in practice, I just, I, in my mind, I think.
There needs to be a lubricant, right? civility there, Yeah. I can't just go for the heart every time based on what the book says. I just don't think that's realistic because even for me, it's difficult enough for me, myself to face my own truth. I lost the ceremony. If someone, another egoic person comes and tell me
what I should be looking
It's even more difficult. So
radical candor in my mind
is a great idea, but I just don't see, in practice how that could be used in a productive way. And I don't know.
Yeah, I look, I, Oh my God. It then so much of that. because of being surrounded by people who, some of them are, they're like radical truth-tellers yeah,
it must be. I don't know. I can't imagine to be easy.
Oh, no, it's a real source of anger because I saw it as not compassionate. Yeah. taking into consideration where I'm at, like, a to Z, you gotta lead me from a right.
I'm clearly not there. What I will say is similar to what plant medicine does.
Truth shows you the gap. It's here's where I am. Here's truth. And there might be a gap between what I'm doing. so you just told me something that hurts a lot because it revealed the gap. I'm probably better off knowing that truth than not what, so it's this weird thing because, but I don't want to hear it all the time.
Don't tell, don't constantly remind me of the gap because that's not going to serve my spirit, which I need to protect. So that's not what it's about. It's about feeding your open heart, feeding your spirit. The gap was good to be aware of because we could then compassionately nudge ourselves to where we want to be.
But it's not about showing me the truth and Oh, you should be there. Cause that's the part that messes the whole game up and bring breeds a lot of judgment, resentment. righteousness.
One thing that I think works that I've seen is using language, using words to say, I love you. And I'm standing for this higher future that I see within you and then get into here's what I see, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. As a way to empower you to stand into that higher future that I see. And that, also that you say that you want, cause I'm not imposing this future on you.
I'm just reminding you, it was something that you say, I love you. And I'm standing for this future that you say you stand for yourself. And, I see here is a step that you could take, whether or not you take it. It's completely up to you based on what you say, do you want to honor the commitment that you have set before?
I like that. And I would just add, I love you because, and I see all that you're navigating and, then get to the part where you say the hard truth, but I think we need. We got to really work on like our appreciation muscle for exactly who we are exactly where we are. And if we're not,
or for another,
for our, for ourselves at another, like if you're gonna give people a hard truth and I love you, isn't enough.
I love you. And and here's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing a woman who's trying to be an amazing mom. Holding their business together, like navigating this relationship change, like whatever it is, like I see you and your app and rockstar start there. And then with that, I do those. See you like, not bringing your truth.
I don't see you stepping into your leadership. I don't see you, whatever it is. That's true. I just, I know how powerful you are, can be, and you're not doing it, but it's because of my, seeing of your greatness.
Yeah. Thank you for that. coming back to the whole idea of self doubt, I recently came across a beautiful quote.
I love to, discuss it with you. Does that? Okay. How audacious you are in pursuing your dreams and your goals is directly related to the amount of self-love you have and self-acceptance that you
have. Oh, wow. Wow. That's great. I'd like to remember that actually.
great. This is recorded. So recording activity, what do you think?
as someone who. Yeah, runs HCI who holds space for, health coaches who, stands for their hopes and dreams. what's your take on this? How valid or invalid do you feel? This is accurate?
I think it's a lot more fun. if you live with that, as that being true, but that if yes, we can succeed by.
Beating ourselves up, making ourselves wrong, fearing judgment, gearing looking good or not looking bad. You can do it. It's just not that fun. It's true. So there's a better way. It works better. The people around you like it more because you're happier. so even if you're motivated to help other people and serve other people, and it's not about you do it for them, because you're going to be a better human for them.
and it's yeah, we just haven't been conditioned by this way of approaching, our work, our motivation, our, heart's desire. Yeah.
let me speak to the younger CK now. yeah, the, how ambitious you are depends on, the level of self love and self acceptance you have. Yeah, try this on.
what's the worst that could happen. The worst thing that could happen is that you actually have a more enjoyable time. You're going through this journey versus waiting until some moments of achievement, and then you're going to have fun. And, I can tell you knowing what I know now, the satisfaction of achievement last nanoseconds for me.
No, it doesn't, it's so true. It's Oh my God. Particularly if you've oriented your whole life towards, what's not right. What, do I need to do?
I think particularly if you're listening to this, probably the normal
yes. Because right away that you go to mind would go, okay. That was long enough what's next.
And that satisfaction is now not good enough anymore. It's already future oriented. So I've done that so many times. It's, not a recipe for a great life.
The thing on this one, the game changer for me in making this rich was spending a year with the intention of not giving a. But yeah, so I needed to almost push away everything in certain ways so that I could just choose what I was doing because I had habituated to over-committing to other people, to other ways to being whatever I was supposed to be, that I couldn't actually create the space to.
Create what I want or do the one thing, the 1% thing that actually mattered that day.
So let's make it a little bit more concrete
one person or the people that I really admire are the people who are truly themselves. They don't give a fuck about whatever, or they just they're a master of the craft, or they're really good at their craft and they speak their truth.
Dave Chappelle is a great example for me is very inspiring for me, even though I'm not a comedian, I just really appreciate his craft. Yeah. and he speaks the truth, He using comedy, packaged nicely and nice and funny, but he delivers his truth, about, the paradox of society and then make it really, funny, entertaining.
So I, aspire to. Do not give me an a fuck the way Dave Chappelle does, or maybe not Dave Chappelle. Exactly. But So, how do you do that? Not to give a fuck more and more. And so this point has been tremendous, right? By having conversations, getting real, so more and more, I'm habituating myself to speak my own truth.
So this is a tremendous, and by the way, thank you again for being on being my partner in this. What other ways could one step into truth?
Yeah. I do think, letting go of, you got to create space for yourself first. Like you're not truth. Doesn't come from a scarce place. if you're running on scarcity and not enoughness.
what's really going to be true. What's true is you're scared and you're just like, you're just grasping for whatever you could get. So you got, to get rid of, create a little bit of space for yourself to get clear on what makes you come alive. What, do you, when you learn about it, when you hear about it, like what sparks your heart?
and I, saw I'm trying to be practical with this, but ultimately if you're saturate, I was oversaturated with half dues. Need twos, must can't everything like, my family was in New York. I can't leave New York and create a intentional community. How would that ever happen? What world would that ever happen in?
There's no reality that could have existed. But I needed to start saying no to things, getting clear on my, how I want to spend my time, where I was not, where I was doing things that obligation that wasn't actually serving the relationship.
So yeah. Yes, I do come back to, if you're going to live into an optimal life, you got to create the space for it. And I don't mean quit your job and do nothing. Choose and choose improved yourself that you could choose for yourself.
So what I'm hearing is do a little Maria Kondo style of decluttering one's life to let go of things that are just dragging her down right in time, space, money, and relationships.
And emotions, all of that.
You might want to start with an autoresponder and your email that just says, I'm not, I'm actually taking a hiatus hippie pen and I'm going to be slow to respond. And I love you. it might start there, what is the most radical thing you could do today? What's your 1% move to create more space for yourself.
So in many ways COVID is a blessing. Cause it forces. People to limit their external engagement. Yes.
If we know how to navigate the addiction, and I don't think most of us do. So I think we're in a tough spot because externally referenced world needing to become intrinsically motivated without the resource to do it with a lot of, things sucking out their attention.
I don't know. I'm not very optimistic coming out of this. I honestly, from an emotional and psychological wellbeing perspective, because I don't think we've focused our government, hasn't focused our media. Hasn't focused on taking care of ourselves.
Yeah. I agree. A hundred percent before we move on to that part.
Is there anything else you wanted to say about, Oh shit. I lost my train of thought.
thank you. Thank you. Is there anything else you wanted to add around stuff? Because one school of thought is, let me go to a retreat center and that maybe among can mountain top. let me just devoid of all of my material, attachments to focus on myself.
That's one way to do it. And the other way to do is as a householder, right? Do it. we can, in the midst of all of our responsibilities, So I think what you said is creating that spaciousness, using Maria condos method or not, as a great place to start, right? A radical thing to go to, autoresponder email.
Is there anything else, tactically, as a way to move towards not giving a
It's the, it's just the idea that a little of a Lil lead to a lot. And so you got to celebrate little wins. So I'm jumping to like your 1% move that gets 50% of the result. You might want to just celebrate any 1%, move in the direction of what you want
and just celebrate momentum, begets momentum. And I'll share a little rhyme. I wrote around this, which is he doing what you're doing and you'll get what you got. Take the same exact pictures. Get the same exact shot. Say you want to go places, but you really must not want to go anywhere. If in a parking lot, you can hope to get lucky.
Ain't got much of a shot. We could pray for a savior, but you'll probably get squat can stay in the cold. If you want to get hot, what you really need? Homing is a booster shot. I'm just telling like it is that I. Hit it on the dot. Oh, look at that pace. I must have hit a soft spot. No need to double down, just drop a coin in the slot.
Just jump on the horse. There'll be right at a trot. I'm just asking for a date. No need to tie the knot. A little of a little often leads to,
I love that. Thank you for sharing. That's awesome. What would you say to someone who, Is learning to flow.
believe it or not, I'm actually learning. So I am, And then he here's the intention behind it. I have no dreams of becoming a rapper, but I do love the craft of words and pauses and vocal varieties and dynamics. And. Rhyming and things like that. So what would you say to someone who is learning?
man, I'm so inspired by these conscious empowering rappers that are out there and you're actually finding them in the Christian rap realm. And they're putting, out verses that are just. So inspiring to me. and so one is called KB, letter K two, the second letter B, and then another guy is Andy Mineo.
and these they're just they're, th they're I'm blown away by how we've got this art form called hip hop, but it's not really being used. to convey how much wisdom we have to share. And, these are folks who are doing it, who are putting in that work. And so for me personally, I do it because I like to write and sometimes I like to turn what I write into.
and that's it. I, don't share that often. Maybe I will more going into the future now that I'm playing the piano more. I have dreams of, writing songs and we'll see, but ultimately it's been, it came from my own heart wanting to get clarity and wanting mantras that like I was living by, what, do I say to myself?
And if I'm rapping to myself and I'm like, bam, and I'm going down the ski mountain rapping, like I'm not falling. cause, I'm cause like, I guess I'm owning it. Rap helps me own it.
I love that. So it was like rhyme plus flow. Plus self-affirmation your own voice?
Yeah equals the part of what we love about hip hop is ego.
There is a bit of ego in it. It is I'm great. There is that. but it's, playful and it's fun and it can be deep and it can hit right at the heart of the matter. similar to comedy in that way.
Do you feel that, self affirmation helps. Either affirms one's identity and, or inventing a new one.
great. I think they're both true. I love this art type idea of like athletes becoming an archetype before stepping onto the court or, Rian say becoming Sasha fierce before stepping out on stage. Being like with my magic wand before stepping into a live, encounter where I don't know what's going to happen next.
Like it just whatever gives you the strength to, to, do it, to, step into the unknown, I guess that's what, I'm doing right now. And I. This, wearing this best. This is an art type, style like Noble warrior, like this represented noble warrior to me in the back, like, my attractions even doing this conversation was, what you decided to call this.
Thank you. Wow. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. do you mind doing some rapid fire questions and we'll complete?
Yeah, I'm just going to grab water and, okay.
All right. All right. Thank you so much. What movies have changed the way you look at reality,
you're going to ask rapid fire questions like that. Okay.
Okay. Let's think about this.
I can't help it, dude is just the way my brain works.
so I'm really struggling with this one. I most recently, social dilemma, honestly, just in regards to what's top of mind and having more awareness around the problem is, has been eye-opening. or how I, see where we're going, that, ultimately If our, if it's all about our attention and the monetizing of our attention, we're entering into a losing game.
And so for me, from a government and policy perspective, we actually have to change the game. If we're going to, we've got to, if we're going to bring a whole network of society together, then what the, what has people winning? Can't just be about monetizing attention, but actually how helpful are you to one another, how helpful is what you contribute to the greater?
So there's some way that I'm, it's getting me to think about then what are we going to do?
Popped up into my head. Much older is Braveheart. Some way that movie touched me. It touched my heart. It, activated the hero in me. It activated the freedom fighter in me. talk about an arc type, like warrior archetype. I'm not like I don't like, I don't hold myself. As like warrior, right?
Like I like it from a traditional sense, but from a, working through this human experience sense. Hell yeah. I'm a warrior. And yeah, not in, not, in the battle field per se, but in the battlefield of life of standing for what I think matters standing for my own integrity, my own spirit.
Like at the, I'd been a warrior for sure.
That's why you're here. The whole idea of noble warrior is people who are willing to step into this comfort and really stand for their highest self. That has truth. So thank you for that. second question. what would you say to a health coach who are experiencing self doubt about their own Dominic
go back to service, be you and serve someone else in your life that needs it. Don't do it for anything, but because you can help, and when we're in service, our confidence builds because we remember the value of our care. And then we can re look at things from a perspective of not ourselves, ultimately, when we're worried about self-doubt, we're worrying about ourselves.
Yeah. Thank you. What do you do to not take yourself too seriously?
I have dogs surrounding me. I love them so much. I play the piano. I really am I man, jump into an instrument now is the time like you could learn it on YouTube. It's doable. It's not that hard. It's four chords. Just, learn to play.
I like, I just think there's so much facility and just mental break from playing an instrument. And, deliberately choose not to take yourself seriously. I ju I've chosen essentially to take on an arc type of play. Like I, I, my role in some ways is to be a playful person, similar to what you worked on.
Like I've worked on the muscle of play, like being, silly, even though. I deeply care. I feel tragedy often. Like I've taken on the art type of cultivating how to play and to cultivate my own joy.
Is there a book or someone who is inspired to take on the play archetype?
Looking on my shelf right now and something,
or a podcast or anything like that, or a video or a
character that I'm, like, I'm trying to like, that's what hip hop is for me. Like play, yeah, music just, yeah, honestly, it's just, it was more. The decision to integrate, play into my life, that it actually helped everything else.
Yeah, I'm asking that question, for myself as well. Cause I, as, you've experienced the last two hours, it's easy for me to get in like very serious and very heady, very meta
there's an Indian doctor who teaches something that we do in the community I'll do with you really quickly. And it comes like good.
And you do three times
open up the arms
and we do, we sing, a song before a potluck dinners. and sometimes it's like the Abe ABCs or twinkle or something else, but they're just like just a lead, lead it in, I guess the, this life is, I believe that like fun is one of our five core principles as a company having fun.
Because that's what a, what, is going to attract you CK to the world? It's fun. People want to be, people want, they want to feel like they enjoy themselves with you. And so cultivating it, I think is a marketing move. I think it's a business.
Yeah. One of the insights that I got from ceremony is if not for joy, then what's all this for.
So I really shifted the way I look at this, last question. the last five years, when you behaviors believe habits and most improved your life,
The decision to choose love and acceptance, even though everything in my body and ego is fighting against that, like openly lean into love and acceptance. Even if it hurts. I did that with my ex-wife and it took years, but I did it.
No. And I took care of their three-year-old baby this weekend, and it was her first sleepover. And I was literally, I had my hand, I was consoling her, on her back and I was like, thinking Oh my God, like what kind of cosmic moment is this? That I am like comforting consoling that baby of my former wife can't tell you, just, yeah. I, felt like, I was doing God's work, honestly. And, and so yeah, what's the best thing to do is choose it. Choose love, and acceptance.
Thank you so much for being here and for sharing your love with us, sharing your wisdom with us, sharing your story with us. who you are is definitely a noble warrior, while you shared with us, the challenging times, doing separation with your ex-wife and now a beautiful moment with her new child.
So thank you so much.
Yeah. Thank you so much.
Pleasure. for those people who are interested in learning more about HCI w where should they go?
Yeah. Check out health coach institute.com and got lots of videos on YouTube. You could, check out. We have lot like three live events every week, or two, three live events every week that you can check us out and get to know us as people.
And, yeah, just, learn more about what whereabouts.
Beautiful. Thank you so much, Eric.
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