Adam Quiney is an executive leadership coach specializing in working with the Smartest People in the Room. A former software developer and attorney, Adam’s learned the hard way about the costs that come from keeping your heart safe and chasing after external rewards to feel whole and complete. From love, Adam is connection, passion, presence, wit, and brilliance. From fear, he is awkward, robotic, apathetic, irrelevant, and arrogant. He’s learned to embrace all these parts of himself, and works with others to do the same in their own lives. Living with his beautiful wife and their two dogs (one of which is a cat) in Victoria, B.C., He is a man on a mission to bring the world to a more inspired and fully-expressed place.

We Talked About

  • How to create our own art of expression with more courage, integrity, and unique brilliance, specifically 3 types of brilliance: head-based, heart-based, and spirit-based
  • Walking a tight rope of loving ourselves exactly as we are and developing ourselves
  • How to change our beliefs that we know no longer serve us:  beliefs, actions, environments
  • How our resistance is the linchpin of our next breakthroughs
  • How he found his dharmic path by confronting his resistance around it
  • How to not give significance to our struggles
  • How plant medicine opens a window get beyond our mind
  • How to ask for what we need as human beings
  • How to be an empowering partner
  • How social media could be a spiritual path


Full Episode


Wisdom Quotes

You would see me and be like, 'Oh, that guy is well put together and he's got a good tie and he looks good with that suit, but it was like all of that was it was a barrier to connecting' Click To Tweet I got into men's work, which brought me into breath, work and consciousness, and learning to embody alpha or masculine energy. Doing these gave me some ground to stand on rather than have this house of cards made up out of like outfits… Click To Tweet There's like this tight rope between loving myself exactly as I am with all of my foibles and still being committed to developing ever greater art. Click To Tweet A lot of us want more love in our life, but we're unwilling to walk through the gate that is required, which is the gate of heartbreak. Click To Tweet Relationship as the deepest spiritual practice. Click To Tweet The way we be will be the same, regardless of our surrounding circumstances. Similar to the Zen saying: wherever you go, there you are. Click To Tweet Beliefs to actions to world or environment and then back to beliefs. So we have a bunch of actions we take from our beliefs, give us our actions. The third part in this. Is that our actions, the way we act in the world creates an… Click To Tweet I had to surrender any thought about having people like me. I had to die that ego death, I guess we'll call it 'what if people never pay attention to what I write?' Click To Tweet If someone were to follow along, they would, that's the biggest thing they would notice is like less Less the energy of look at me like me find me valuable and more more just Adam being expressed as Adam and not doing it. I'm a truth… Click To Tweet The art of our own expression: my job is to express brilliance in whatever I'm doing. Click To Tweet We can't ever really capture the Dow through words, but words can bring us closer to the exp like even in the expression of it, it can bring us closer to that thing. Oh, I'm talking about leadership. So I'm a leader, no talking about… Click To Tweet Wherever we have resistance is often a compass for us saying, Hey, there's some work that you could be doing in this direction. Click To Tweet What made a difference for my performance: In spite of all of those fears and stories, yelling in my ear, I kept practicing and I stayed in action. Click To Tweet I kept coaching people because I, really wanted to believe it. And what would happen is every week or every two weeks or every month, or however, it was something would shift for someone and I, or something would shift for me. And I'd be… Click To Tweet Part of the truth of being a human being is we never get to see our light because it's shining everywhere we go. Click To Tweet It's fine to create our art by ourselves in a cave, but then the world misses out on that. And your art won't have the impact it's here to have. Click To Tweet Social media is a gift in two ways. One is because it allows us to publish our art and to share our art as an act of generosity of the world. And two, it gives us an opportunity to confront our fears that are getting in the way of doing… Click To Tweet The truth is that existence to be alive as a human being includes degree of suffering, it is inherent because we are as a being have an infinite amount of expression that's available and a finite amount of time to express it. So we will… Click To Tweet Plant medicine allows us to open a window, not a door because you still have to do the work on the other side of it, but it opens a window to get beyond your mind. Once we can see the truth, we can still choose back into the old way you… Click To Tweet There's a part of me that I've learned these days to delight and wonder in the fact that some of our existence will forever be unknowable. Click To Tweet If you're not present with each other, there cannot be polarity. Click To Tweet The advice I have for my younger self: The answer lies in relationship with other people. Not 'here's the right answer. No, that's not the right answer.' It lies somewhere in being in relationship with someone. Click To Tweet

Wisdom Clips


Transcript by AI

Adam Quiney Transcript By AI

The Hard Costs of Chasing  External Validation & Keeping Your Heart Safe

Welcome to Nobel warrior. My name is CK Lynn. If you are a high performer looking for practical advice to hack your cautiousness, to have more impact, to have more fulfillment, you came to the right place. We're going to talk about mindset, mental models, actionable tactics, such that you can go out and navigate your own hero's journey.

[00:00:19] Now, of course, if you have any friends who can use some of this, go ahead and share with them. So then that way they can benefit from your discovery.

[00:00:26] Before I introduce my next guest, let me ask you a question. How do you know yourself deeper and live a life more expressed? My next guest, Adam quanie is the podcast host of get lit with Adam quanie. He's also the founder of ever-growing coaching. 

[00:00:43] He and I had a deep discussion about his hero's journey.

[00:00:47] From a lawyer to a software developer to now executive coach, we talk about how to create our own art of expression with more courage, integrity, and unique brilliance, specifically three types of brilliance head-based heart-based and spirit based . We talked about walking and tight rope of loving ourselves exactly as we are in developing ourselves. We talked about being connected to our heart. We talk about the three tenets I'm improving our lives, these actions and environment. We talked about resistance as the linchpin to our next breakthroughs.

[00:01:26] We talked about finding our dharmic path by leaning into our resistance. We talked about how not to give any significance to our struggles. We talked about how plant medicine opens a new window to go beyond our mind. 

[00:01:40] Going beyond ourselves, how having a relationship is the deepest spiritual path. We talked about a lot of us want more love, or aren't willing to walk through the Gates to receive our love. We talked about how to ask for what we need as human beings. We talked about how to be an empowering partner. We talked about how sharing ourselves on social media as a spiritual path. Please enjoy my conversation with Adam Queenie. 

[00:02:06] CK: [00:02:06] I wanted you to describe a little bit about the physical and also the internal transformation that you had because four years ago you were talking about.

[00:02:17] Really pay attention to the way you dress, the way you look and the very particular about certain things. And, now I like the way you look you look like a Ninja from, the mountain. So I love that. So that's a little bit about the physical transformation four years ago to today.

[00:02:38] Adam: [00:02:38] Sure. I'll start by saying I've always, loved style. That's just been something that's been of interest to me ever since I was a kid. And what I learned to do. I always had an eye for what makes a good outfit or whatever. And what I learned to do was to hide, to dress in such a way that it gave me a thing to hide behind.

[00:03:02] So like you would see me and be like, Oh, that guy is well put together and he's got a good that tie looks good with that suit, but it was like all of that was it was a barrier to connecting. And so it was really interesting because if you were to say if you were to try to reflect that too, to me and say Hey I noticed the way you dress creates a barrier, I'd be like, what are you talking about?

[00:03:29] I'm following the rules of how to dress well. And I'm I'm doing everything the right way, which to me is such a fascinating example of how, what we're doing sometimes is in congruent with the being underneath. So all that to say, What started to happen was a few things I, I got into a lot of men's work, which brought me into breath, work and consciousness, and learning to embody alpha or masculine energy and doing that gave me some ground to stand on rather than have this house of cards made up out of like outfits and funky style and all of that stuff.

[00:04:12] And I also. Had the, great opportunity to work with some people that reflected a lot of this to me, in a way I could hear like a way they could get in where they'd be like, yeah, the style is great. It's just loud. And we can't we can't be with you. We can't hear you through it. It's in the way of us getting to fully be with you.

[00:04:31] And so that started to open things up and allow the opportunity to step into something deeper. 

[00:04:38] CK: [00:04:38] I love that. Thank you for sharing that, by the way. When I was in ceremony quick share when I was in ceremony by myself doing my solo journey, and there was an impulse of looking myself in the mirror and the man in the mirror doesn't quite reflect the men that I know.

[00:04:57] So then in the middle of the ceremony was starting at cutting my hair and all kinds of, I don't recommend it to anyone else but, that impulse or I that, desire of. Really being congruent to the internal image, the external image. I think this is beautiful. So do you feel like that when you look into the mirror, you're like the man that you see that is a congruent to the image that you have in your mind?

[00:05:24] Adam: [00:05:24] It's it's interesting. Cause I noticed there's always that ego never true. At least my experience is the ego never truly goes away. I just learned to to, work better with it to not have it. There's always some level of fear. There's always the next edge we're at. And there's a lot of things I look in the mirror and really connect with who I am and I'm really delighted by all that.

[00:05:49] And then there's places where I still am. I guess the best way to put it. It's like resistant to loving myself. So like I'm carrying a little weight on my stomach and every time I take my shirt off to go to bed, I'm like, ah, the weight in my stomach. If I could just get that. And I have enough consciousness now to know yeah, if I could just get that, then there'll be a new thing that I could just get.

[00:06:09] And then a thing after that. And so there's like this tight rope between loving myself exactly as I am with all of my foibles and still being committed to developing ever greater art. So I, am committed to losing some weight because there's a healthier version of me that, I can live into, but I'm just fascinated by like the work's never done.

[00:06:35] There's always an edge and thank goodness because it makes life interesting. 

[00:06:39] CK: [00:06:39] Yeah. I really, appreciate the way you articulated We have an audience of overachievers who is who's deeply believing, even if there are words for it who deeply believing self-actualization Kaizen self-transcendence going after it, whatever phrase allergy that you go after, it's essentially this intrinsic desire for growth.

[00:07:05] Adam: [00:07:05] Yes. 

[00:07:06] CK: [00:07:06] And 

[00:07:06] as you said beautifully, it's not It's not one way or the other, let's just go after it. And without really being concerned about this internal voice where we think about, and also it's not just Oh, surrender to the flow and just whatever however, I look, I'm going to love myself fully.

[00:07:26] Yes. And could you do both when we were talking about here? So I really, appreciate the way you say it. Can you share with us a little bit about this journey of reclaiming self love? Cause I would say to most men, especially this idea of love and self-acceptance sounds a little bit and soft and woo and weak and.

[00:07:56] So what would you say to the younger CK or the younger Adam who is, who feels a little strange hearing these two grown men talking about self-loving

[00:08:08] Adam: [00:08:08] let me sit with that. Cause it's rich question with a lot of paths. Let me talk about the young grad them first interrupt me if you're like, Hey, I want you to go in this direction instead if you have a question or whatever, but so the younger Adam was a man who had a big heart, but early on learned that was a liability.

[00:08:29] Big heart meant. I felt disappointment. I felt betrayal. I felt hurt when I would ask a friend do you want to play? And they said, Oh no, I'm good. I'm doing something. I would like, Oh, I'm crushed. I'm devastated. And so I learned early on, that's a liability, run everything up through my brain. Think through stuff, analyze stuff.

[00:08:51] And so life became about what existed in my brain and what I could operationalize and make efficient and analyze. It was like a life through thought. And so the interesting thing about your question you're talking about young Adam and love is young. Adam would have told you in brilliantly articulated detail about how he has love in his life while simultaneously being totally disconnected from it.

[00:09:17] So I wouldn't, I don't know. I think the way I would have listened to us talk about this would have been to take it and then put it inside the contraption in my head and be like, Oh, here's why I have exactly what they're talking about while simultaneously being like, and nevermind the fact that there's no intimacy in my marriage and nevermind the fact that I'm often surrounded by people and feel completely alone.

[00:09:41] Let's not worry about those things because here's all the reasons why I already have love.

[00:09:48] Yeah, so I 

[00:09:48] could stay more from there, but I just want to pause to give you a chance to point me in the right direction, if there's a direction for us to go from that initial statement. 

[00:09:58] CK: [00:09:58] Yeah. Let me reflect back on what I'm hearing. When I read the writing, when I hear your talk, there's a lot of, yeah.

[00:10:10] Resonance because I see myself in the story that you share like I said, in the very, beginning, like man talking to a kindred spirit, I yet, cause I've been there. So I totally understand the younger CK would be. The body's whole job is to carry the head. Everything is about the head is about figuring things out.

[00:10:30] It's about being cerebral. It's being about being the smartest and and forgetting that there are moments where I'm surrounded by people who love me, surrounded by people who I'm blessed to be with. And yet still feel very isolated, very 

[00:10:50] Adam: [00:10:50] alone. Yeah. 

[00:10:52] CK: [00:10:52] And, it never really appreciating like, Oh it's just an, a phenomenon being dissociated.

[00:11:02] Adam: [00:11:02] Yes. 

[00:11:03] CK: [00:11:03] With the present moment with a body. And it wasn't until a few, yeah. Years ago, it was like, Oh, all these theories that are read about on the Dalai Lama from the hallway, man. Oh, this is what they mean by. This experience is so much better than just saying here. 

[00:11:23] Adam: [00:11:23] Yeah. Yeah. So I remember for me that the moment, it, the moment it first started to click, like the moment there was even this thought that came into my head, that there could be something beyond what I have, because the way we construct our reality is there They're perfectly contained.

[00:11:46] So like my beliefs about everything encompasses everything and there's not much room for anything beyond that until someone knocks me off of my path and I'm like, Holy crap, there's so much more available. And I didn't realize that. And so the first crack in the perfectly constructed reality I had was when someone was working with me.

[00:12:06] And they asked me, have you ever been devastated by love? And I remember very clearly being like, I don't even know what that means, so let's go with no, and that was the, that didn't solve anything. But that was just the first crack Oh, there's an idea. Concept way of love occurring.

[00:12:27] That is totally foreign to me. I couldn't even tell you what that would be like to be devastated by love. 

[00:12:35] CK: [00:12:35] So, 

[00:12:35] what is it like to be devastated by love if you don't mind bringing us back to that moment? 

[00:12:40] Adam: [00:12:40] Yeah what I've discovered over time is it's painful and it's heartbreak and it's a lot of us want more love in our life, but we're unwilling to walk through the gate that is required, which is the gate of heartbreak.

[00:12:56] If, you protect yourself from heartbreak, which is what I'd done, how could you ever fully love someone? Cause you're always guarding. There's always a degree to which you're not willing to let people in. And so being devastated by love is the way that started to show up in my marriage was getting a lot more hurt by my wife for so long.

[00:13:19] I was Teflon. So she would have emotions in our relationship and I would be impenetrable. I'd be the stoic white Knight that nothing got too, which kind of worked in a way we were balanced to an extent, but there was no, there could be no polarity between us. There was no, true love because true love requires being unguarded, being undefended.

[00:13:43] And then that's how it devastates us. We love something to such an extent that it hurts when something happens. 

[00:13:51] CK: [00:13:51] Yeah, thank you for that. There's a lot of different directions you can take. Since we're talking about love and relationships and spousals and things like that, let's go there. 

[00:14:09] Yeah, Being in relationship with a significant other in my mind is one of the most transformative path that one could take for self-actualization really because it's one of the most challenging one. Because you are hurting all the time. You're suppose you're a quote unquote, there is a lot of constructs, that we inherited from society. 

[00:14:34] This is 

[00:14:34] where true love is. You look at the romantic comedies Oh, look at that. We're supposed to be 

[00:14:42] happily ever after, 

[00:14:44] but the reality of a, my mind it's very yeah, it was this. I hate to be graphic, but it's like a crucible, right? You step into it, knowing that it's going to be highest of highs, bliss.

[00:14:58] Adam: [00:14:58] Yeah. 

[00:14:58] CK: [00:14:58] As well, the lowest of lows. This is your copilot you both have been saying yes to going to that rollercoaster, right? Yeah. I'm curious to know if you agree with that metaphor or not 

[00:15:08] Adam: [00:15:08] a hundred 

[00:15:09] percent. Yeah. Like I've heard smart people, so you just have to, we just have to trust it because smart people said this, but relate to relationship as the deepest spiritual practice.

[00:15:21] And I find I'm constantly coming up against that and not the deepest spiritual practice is not like this idea of sitting in church and a halo of light comes down from the sky and touches you on the forehead. Like the deepest spiritual practice in the sense that I can be. So absolutely convinced that what's showing up in our relationship is over there with my wife and then getting supported by my coach or whoever.

[00:15:48] To see Aw, frig. This is yes. There's something over there. Cause there always is. But like the work for me to take on is on my side and there's always a reciprocal, so whatever up over there's also the reciprocal of it showing up on my side and that's my work. And boy is that challenging to get off my high horse and be like, okay, yeah, maybe I could see something over there and it doesn't matter.

[00:16:11] Cause the work's over here on this side. 

[00:16:14] CK: [00:16:14] Yeah. It's how we respond to our objective reality, how we respond to and how we're, responsible to our subject reality. How do I take the words, the actions what she should do or shouldn't do, and then take that and manage it.

[00:16:35] Internally I, so one of the person that I really respect is Brooke Castillo. And she recently went through a divorce herself, but choose a a coach, a master coach that was listening to her. And she said, before you finish anything out of hurry out of it's more comfortable when an exit that bring a lot of love to it.

[00:17:00] So you can exit in love and with love. Because then it's from choice. Yeah. Rather than Holy shit, this feels like I'm being punched on the floor over and over again in the stomach over and over again. It's like fucking sucks. And you get out right. You know where I've been there, so I don't want to project, but I've been there yeah. And. And then the way she said it, makes a lot of sense to me because it correlates back to what you were saying earlier. We feel the way we feel it's going to be the same even if you get married, even when you have kids, even when you have a zillion dollars in the bank, how you feel, it's the same.

[00:17:55] Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious to know your thought, if you agree with that, don't agree with that. Anything you want to say about 

[00:18:01] that? 

[00:18:02] Adam: [00:18:02] Yeah. So the way I would word it is the way we be will be the same, regardless of our surrounding circumstances. So if someone, if part of how someone bees in the world is Terrified of a commitment just to come up with something nice and broad, then getting then that's going to get expressed to some extent in their relationships.

[00:18:29] And then often people are like, Oh, the solution here is for me to get married. Cause then I'm locked in, but all they've done is assembled different looking circumstances around themselves. And it's I think it's the Zen saying goes like, wherever you go, there you are. And so you're going to end up in a committed marriage.

[00:18:47] And of course, you're still going to be the same way if you haven't done that work to change that, to create the transformation. And so you're going to now be the expression of terrified about commitment inside a commitment and who knows how that'll naturally that'll look. In practice, but it's going to get expressed one way or the other.

[00:19:04] And to me, that's part of, what's cool about all of this. It's we can have this internal story. I'm going to go to money now. Like money is scarce. And one of the things people try to do is they try to earn their way out of that story. But where you end up is someone who's got the internal story. That money is scarce with $10 million, which is why we have all these millionaires terrified about the money running out and clutching for more.

[00:19:29] It just, you can't. You can't change your circumstances to change your internal state? It doesn't work. 

[00:19:35] CK: [00:19:35] Yeah, totally. I know a few who fit that exact which is great. And that's part of their journey, part of the path that judgment, right? Every single one of us are in perfectly perfect human beings.

[00:19:52] And we all have different stories that we're working it out. It's totally cool. That there's is on money or some people's wrong. Love how long lovable they are. Or some people may be the way they look and et cetera That's one of the reason why I love talking to other philosopher, entrepreneurs, coaches because.

[00:20:15] Every single one of her or something this path. Yeah. I hope or watching this or not saying Oh these are guys from the mountain top giving you this Holy scripture. No. Where on the same journey, maybe we know a couple of things. Maybe we'll have some lessons and some stories.

[00:20:33] And hopefully if you want to, we can take some of these actionable tactics or the mental models with you. If it serves you. Of course. Beautiful. And by the way, I want to bring it back to who are listening people who are listening, we're not just talking about marriage and relationship.

[00:20:57] Are we, can you see, based on your experience, your personal, as well as your coaching experiences with your clients? Do you see a transference to the area of career money COVID and other things I'm curious to know if you have other stories like that, 

[00:21:17] or labor percent. 

[00:21:18] Adam: [00:21:18] Yeah. This is part of what compelling about the work I, and I, and you get to do. And so frustrating for us as humans. I think, because again, everywhere we go there we are. So if I have, let's say that my relationship to commitment is that it's imprisoning and then I'm going to go into my life and I'm going to try to live my life in response to that relationship to commitment.

[00:21:52] So I'm going to do things like, first of all, I'm going to notice all the people that are in commitment that are imprisoned. I'm going to look for the evidence to support my belief. I'm going to find myself into relationships that are the expression of that. So that means I'll either jump from relationship to relationship.

[00:22:08] And maybe I have a great sex life as a result of it. Like it doesn't all have to be bad or I'll get into relationship. The relationships I do get into that I stick with will leave me with the experience of being in prison. So I'll either create the reality or avoid creating that same reality. And then I'll get into careers where that same thing happens.

[00:22:27] So like I'll find myself into jobs where I don't have to get too committed or when the time comes that I need to commit in order to create a particular result, I'm going to be stuck in the experience of being imprisoned. And so and then we could like, just look in someone's life and everywhere we look where commitment would show up, we're going to see that particular belief expressed in some way or the other.

[00:22:52] And to me, that's fascinating because this is Holy cow, the neat thing there is, if I practice over here, I'm also going to be practicing over there. I can create a breakthrough by working with my partner, my romantic partner, and it's going to create shifts in my work, my career, my whatevers. 

[00:23:07] CK: [00:23:07] Yeah.

[00:23:08] It's, a hugely transformative. Yeah. So could you share with those maybe some practices that you have that you may have to really concretize it and then make it a little bit more practical? How do you, so let's say you weren't aware of before somebody told you Holy shit I've been using following the same example fear of commitment let's say.

[00:23:29] And Oh yeah. I can now see the pattern, but how, the heck do I get out? Can you share with us maybe some practices that you do or that you advise your clients to do so that they can practice getting out of this Chinese finger 

[00:23:46] Adam: [00:23:46] trap? Yeah, totally. Let me just think how to set this up. Cause we want to make this nice in general.

[00:23:56] So the starting point would be like any particular thing around which people want to create a shift, so it could be money or it could be the way relationship goes or it could be your career or the fact that you always seem to have a boss that's a jerk to you or whatever. So that's starting point is like, where's an area that we want to create a shift and then.

[00:24:19] What we tend to do when, so I'm going to first talk about what we typically do and then what I would suggest as a practice. That's not what we typically do. What we typically do is we're like, here's the thing. I want to create a shift around how do I change my circumstances? So if it's my boss is a jerk, get a new job.

[00:24:38] Money is scarce. Find a job that pays me more money or find a way to be content living with less money. We can go to either side of the particular the two poles. So all of that is typically about changing our circumstances. And this is why new year's resolutions are often the, either. Fail. We just give up on them or why we create the result, but then it doesn't really change our lives that much.

[00:25:04] It's like we've just rearranged the furniture inside. The same apartment is because it's usually devoted to changing our circumstances and expecting that's going to create a different experience of life. What I would suggest people do is get clear what is the thing around which I'd love to create a shift and then start by writing out all of your beliefs about that particular thing.

[00:25:27] So if we were talking about money, you might write at the top of a page like money is, and then. Enter just keep filling that out. So be like money is the root of all evil money is something that controls you. Money is dangerous. People with money are. Greedy and corrupt people without money are Holy and humble.

[00:25:49] You just keep writing out all these beliefs. And there's a lot more we can start to do with that. But what that's going to have people do is start to realize the, lens through which they view the world and the lens through which they act. And I can go further into this if you'd like, but that's if, people just started to do one thing, that would be where I'd start them.

[00:26:12] So we're starting to notice the water we swim in rather than just trying to do something different inside that same water. 

[00:26:19] CK: [00:26:19] Yeah. So what you're saying is using, writing out the beliefs around it as a way to make the subconscious conscious? 

[00:26:26] Adam: [00:26:26] Yes, 

[00:26:28] CK: [00:26:28] no. Until you make the subconscious conscious, you will call it fate.

[00:26:32] Adam: [00:26:32] Yes. Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:26:35] CK: [00:26:35] Okay. So, now, say I write down a list of beliefs around, let's say money and okay. So now I'm more aware of it then what? 

[00:26:46] Adam: [00:26:46] So let me draw the model for how I see people create their lives inadvertently, and then we'll come back to this. So there's basically three parts that dictates how something goes.

[00:26:59] In relation to money or relationship or whatever the first is our beliefs. So we have all our beliefs about relationship, for example we'll use money. So I've got beliefs that you have to work hard to make money. We'll use that as one belief, and we've got a whole bunch of beliefs and as humans, we're belief making machines.

[00:27:19] So some people hearing this are like, great. I'll just not have beliefs about something. No, you can't do that. That's not the way the human mind works. And even to have no belief about something is still to hold a kind of belief. It's just like a weird, so just don't try to do 

[00:27:37] that. 

[00:27:38] CK: [00:27:38] Basically what that person just said is again, using the Chinese finger trap example, it's no beliefs is better than having beliefs therefore going to belief that that I 

[00:27:50] Adam: [00:27:50] love that metaphor and how you put it so we can't escape it. We just have to accept Oh, that's what we do.

[00:27:55] We create meaning. So we start with our beliefs and then from those beliefs, we have a set of actions we take and those actions can either be. In reaction to the beliefs or consistent with the beliefs, which are the same thing. So if I believe you have to work hard to make money, I'm going to have a bunch of actions I'll take I'll find my way into a career that rewards me with money for working hard, such as, for example, law, which was my background, or we'll do things like I don't want to work hard.

[00:28:27] So I'm going to find a way to be content. Not making a lot of money or I don't want to work hard, but I do want to take vacations. And so people with those beliefs end up creating lives, where like they find a way to be really resourceful so they can take vacations, but not have to work hard. And at the same time not have much money.

[00:28:46] So we have a bunch of actions we take from our beliefs, give us our actions. The third part in this. Is that our actions, the way we act in the world creates an environment or a world around us. That's consistent with those actions. So I'm going to end up in a career with a bunch of people working hard to make money, and I'm going to ostracize the people that seem to be making a bunch of money.

[00:29:12] But aren't working hard cause I'm going to create some kind of story. That's consistent with my beliefs that they're cheating or they're liars or they're thieves. I don't want to be around them. Saul self-contained and then here's the punchline is that world around us proves and reconfirms the beliefs.

[00:29:27] So it's all self-contained and it feeds back in itself. And so what happens is people try to just change their actions without being aware of any of this stuff. And then the world pushes them back into the same shape that they were before, because they created it to do or people go to a Tony Robbins event or sit in an Iowasca ceremony and are like, Oh my God, everything's going to be different.

[00:29:49] And then they come back to that world and it, because they have no ongoing support, it. It's slowly, but surely not just them back into the way life was before. So beliefs to actions to world or environment and then back to beliefs. 

[00:30:05] CK: [00:30:05] Yeah. 

[00:30:06] Adam: [00:30:06] I like to say something there. Yeah, go ahead. 

[00:30:08] CK: [00:30:08] Yeah. A lot of times we go to these peak experiences, seminar ceremonies, as a way to lift the veil, to see truth for what it is.

[00:30:19] And we, and then it's easy for the ego of mind to say, all right, I get it. I got the answer. I'm going to change my way. And I went, I changed my actions and they don't put infrastructure in place. Yes, predictably. They're going to go back to the, way they were because the, momentum the, gravity of their existing way of being their existing social infrastructure is existing in physical infrastructure.

[00:30:46] Their existing habitual infrastructures are there to keep them where they're at. So I love the fact that you. Talk about this. Yeah, for 

[00:30:56] Adam: [00:30:56] sure. This is also why I win. A coach or a therapist or a friend is it's just your story. That's why that doesn't work. Because on the one hand, it is just a story.

[00:31:09] It's a belief we've created, but at the same time, we've created a world around us that is concrete reality. Proving that belief. True. So it's simultaneously just a story. And at the same time, not just a story and just trying to tell ourselves, Oh, I just need to change my belief. It's setting us up.

[00:31:25] Cause that's not sufficient. We actually have to act differently and all this stuff. So to bring it back to where we started, you list out all your beliefs. And then the next thing to do would be to make a list of all of the actions that you take as a result of those beliefs. So okay, you got to work hard to make money.

[00:31:42] What are the things I do as a result of that? I throw off money and I refuse to work hard and I learned to live without a lot of money and I'm very resourceful. And I judge people with a lot of money for being slaves to capitalism and I, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And none of this stuff necessarily will.

[00:32:04] Create the change we might want. What it does is it puts us in a position to actually see how the world around us is something we're actively creating. And with that altitude, then we have access to like really caused a change that will make a difference as opposed to just, 

[00:32:21] CK: [00:32:21] yeah. Being back in one sentence.

[00:32:22] You lost me in this, something about alcohol. One more time. 

[00:32:25] Adam: [00:32:25] Yeah. First of all, when people hear this, they're like, okay, I out my beliefs and then I lay out my actions, but Adam, that's not going to change anything. Like I need to change this. And I agree just listing this stuff out, isn't going to change anything.

[00:32:42] What it will do is it's going to give you altitude. It's going to let you see the greater pattern and see how Oh, even the solution I try to take from the thing I'm relating to as a problem is more of the pattern. The very thing I try to do to shift stuff, actually recreates the problem in the first place.

[00:32:59] And then, Oh, I just keep doing it. And so that gives us access to power to make a difference because now we can see the greater picture, then we can start to do something that would really make a difference as opposed to just the next step in the same pattern over and over again. 

[00:33:14] CK: [00:33:14] Yeah, for sure.

[00:33:17] Th there are certainly a lot to unpack here and I don't want to make our podcast very prescriptive to someone was listening to this because again, correct me if I'm wrong, we can go super quick here. Like the metal yeah. And so forth. But I want to make it practical for them. But I want to do a quick summary first.

[00:33:43] So in my mind, essentially where you're extrapolating here, where you're w where you're elaborating here is this whole concept of be, do have, right. So it really going back to underlying what is my, mentality around the things that I do already, and then getting closer and closer to the way who am I being.

[00:34:07] In this moment, am I being resourceful or have limiting beliefs on certain things? Is that 

[00:34:13] Adam: [00:34:13] a 

[00:34:14] CK: [00:34:14] good recap of what you said? 

[00:34:16] Adam: [00:34:16] Yup. That's great. 

[00:34:19] CK: [00:34:19] Cool. So let's go back to you, Adam. 

[00:34:26] Adam: [00:34:26] I 

[00:34:26] CK: [00:34:26] love the curious way of beam. 

[00:34:30] Adam: [00:34:30] No, I love that subject to me. Yeah. Good. 

[00:34:35] CK: [00:34:35] Good. No. Okay. So, let's actually do this in, a parallel track here, you started being public.

[00:34:43] You step into the journey of being public about seven years ago. That's the earliest YouTube video that I found of you. Yeah. And you're still doing it very actively today. Can you share with us a little bit about this journey I'm being prominent. And then I want to make it people who are listening to this, listen from the place of what does it take to be public, to be a thought leader to really stand out, to lead.

[00:35:09] So if you can share with us your journey of being prominent, that would be really great. 

[00:35:15] Adam: [00:35:15] Yeah. So I've been writing for maybe 20 years, like since the early days of the internet blogging and stuff like that. And then video about seven years ago and early on, most of what I wrote was to be seen. So like I was writing with the intent, like the need to be seen.

[00:35:41] So all my writing was like, how do I grab someone's attention and make them look at me and notice me and find me valuable, all of that stuff. So pretty egoic and And that was tedious. I think for everyone on some level, it's not that what I wrote didn't entertain or Provide value. Like it wasn't bereft of value. It's just that first and foremost, the primary cause like the primary reason to do any of that was look at me. And so we feel that on some level when people are reading, we've all had that where you read a post written by someone and you're like, this post was written to sell your course.

[00:36:26] Like I can see you're writing something, but that's still what I'm feeling. And so that's the energy I'm interacting with primarily. And what started to happen? Actually, what had to happen was I had to surrender any thought about having people like, me. It's not that I didn't, that I was like, then I'm just going to say hateful stuff, but more like I had to let go, I had to die that ego death, I guess we'll call it of what if people never pay attention to what I write?

[00:36:58] And what if I never am a thought leader or anything like that? Now, what do I still want to write? And so from that place, I could start to write my own truth. And as I learned to be more fully expressed as a man, just in his life, my writing also started to reflect that. And and so I think if someone were to follow along, they would, that's the biggest thing they would notice is like less Less the energy of look at me like me find me valuable and more more just Adam being expressed as Adam and not doing it.

[00:37:39] I'm a truth teller, so I don't care if you. What I say, right? Cause that's just the other end of the spectrum. There's not really much growth there, but more Hey, I want to provide value. But first and foremost, that my commitment is that I'm expressing what's real for me. And, that's really made a difference because when times are tough and when I post a video and no one likes it, or I still have an ego.

[00:38:01] So when no one shares my posts or anything, I can still keep writing because the deeper commitment is just to be in the practice of expressing my art into the world. It's purely as I can. 

[00:38:12] CK: [00:38:12] I really love how you phrase it. It's an art. What do you think this is? This is an art of how would you describe this word art 

[00:38:23] Adam: [00:38:23] in your case?

[00:38:23] Yeah I would say everyone. You can see if the children, are fully expressed because they haven't been trained by the world, not to show up as the way they are. And then growing up, we're taught like, Oh, I'm too much. I'm not enough. I'm selfish. Whatever, story we're trained in stories.

[00:38:44] And that gets in the way then of us expressing the art. I would call it like the art of our own expression. So my art and the world is like those things you read at the start, like connecting with human beings, being connection, being a presence in the room, being witty and making people laugh. And and the expression of brilliance.

[00:39:04] And you and I shared that quality. And so the beautiful thing about that art is that my job is to express brilliance in whatever I'm doing. So if it's this conversation is to be the expressing the quality of being a brilliance in this conversation. If it's playing Squatch, then it's to express brilliance in the way I'm playing squash.

[00:39:24] And that's my art expressed in the world. I don't know if I'm answering your question or not. 

[00:39:31] CK: [00:39:31] As lousy, say it in a doubter Jean first sentence if there are no words, If a work and describe the Dow is not the eternal Dao. 

[00:39:43] So I'm asking that question purposefully, not necessarily to get a, the answer or the, definition is in discussing it, that whatever felt sensation emerging, the way that you describe it as well.

[00:39:58] Adam: [00:39:58] Yeah. As I said, the finger pointing to the moon. Yeah, 

[00:40:01] CK: [00:40:01] exactly. Yeah. Actually say more about that. 

[00:40:05] Adam: [00:40:05] It's the same idea of we can't ever really capture the Dow through words, but words can bring us closer to the exp like even in the expression of it, it can bring us closer to that thing.

[00:40:21] Yeah. The finger pointing to the moon is another thing where we often mistake. Oh, look, it's like a conversation about leadership. Cause that's often work I'm in, Oh, I'm talking about leadership. So I'm a leader, no talking about leadership points us towards it. But leadership is something experienced and expressed in the moment.

[00:40:37] It has nothing to do with the words being used. 

[00:40:40] CK: [00:40:40] Yeah. Okay. Similar when people ask me what's the difference between religion and spirituality group? I got the finger pointing at the moon from Bruce Lee. He says, Hey religion, is like the finger pointed at a moon. Look at the moon.

[00:40:57] Don't look at the finger. Aha. I really love that. So it was very similar concept that way. So thank you creating it. And actually I wanted to hone in on this point a bit because some of our friends who was very grounded, very practical, they think Nancy K you're so philosophical. Where and why do you continue to look?

[00:41:16] At the past and the wounds. And why do you continue to look at the future? Why don't you just live your life? Why do you keep discussing these very metaphysical concepts? And my response to them is. Exactly. What louts has said is it's the truth. It's not the thing. The end point, to point, it's in the discussing of it.

[00:41:41] The truth emerged from that. So that's why I continuously talk about similar concepts 500 billion, different angles. Curious to know your thoughts and why do you. Talk about it on Instagram podcast, writing and coaching sessions. I'm curious to know 

[00:42:05] Adam: [00:42:05] Let me get the words or let them come to me rather.

[00:42:12] Again I'm, clear words are there. They're never gonna capture the truth, but they're the best tool we have often to get to the truth. And so really what I'm about is I want to support people. And model a life fully expressed. So if people, they don't have to, if people are like, I don't want to do that.

[00:42:35] I want to stay where I am. Great. I got no problem with that, but there's lots of people there. Like I would love to be more fully expressed in my life, more of me showing up into my life as it shows up to me. And that's the heart of why I do anything is I'm hoping that I can write in such a way or share a video or have someone see someone else move through something that then inspires them to take a step that might have them show up more fully expressed in their life.

[00:43:06] And then to go back to what your friend said about like, why be present or past or future it's, always like the middle path where Some people are entirely focused on the present, which is great. Except then that means you don't have the capacity to receive the future or the past. And so you end up recreating, like recreating the mistakes of the past and blending into the future.

[00:43:33] On the other hand, there's people that are entirely focused on the future or the past, and they don't ever, get to live in the moment. And yeah. Where I'm often fascinated with people is less about what is the right place for us to turn our attention and more, what are the limits of someone's range?

[00:43:51] And if we can broaden their range. So like for the people that are like, just live in the moment yeah, but what if you could live in the moment and see the future in the past, that's going to open up so much more available to them, both as life expands and just in their own experience of it. So that's, the thing that's most fascinating to me is broadening range.

[00:44:12] CK: [00:44:12] I just love that. Use that magic word range. Cause that's, exactly the way I think about it. I don't want to have a bromance here. If you're thinking about our physicality. A lot of people say, I just want to be super strong. I'm about what ended up happening is yeah, they don't stretch.

[00:44:33] So they have very 

[00:44:34] Adam: [00:44:34] limited 

[00:44:34] CK: [00:44:34] range. If you really think about Olympians world-class athletes, they have power in their full range. So similarly, what you're describing the way I'm articulate or unpacking here is yes. Develop your capacity healing your wounds from the past devalue their capacity in being in the present moment, the Valley of capacity and projecting forward.

[00:45:04] So you can go towards where the wave is going to be. The future is going to be, but we're not what you're saying is develop a full range of it. So you have four capacity to pull out the tool. Whenever this situation needs you to do, is that an accurate reflection and where you hope what you said 

[00:45:22] Adam: [00:45:22] beautifully put?

[00:45:23] Yeah. That's exactly 

[00:45:23] CK: [00:45:23] right. Anything else you wanted to elaborate on? Unpack. 

[00:45:28] Adam: [00:45:28] Yeah some things people can action on here actually, which would be like to notice where our resistance is. Cause that's the compass. So if, someone was listening and they're like, ah, looking at the past as a waste of time, great, there's some resistance and that's probably a place where your range is, not as open as wherever we prefer, wherever we, wherever our preference would take us.

[00:45:54] So again, One of the, I'll take this back to where we started, which was early on. Part of my range was answering tests and doing things the right way and being very efficient. And if you were to say, Adam, you know this conversation with this subordinate or this direct report you're working with. You really need to feel into what's going on for them.

[00:46:13] You got to get in touch with the human being. There. I'd be like, that's inefficient. We've got something that needs to be done yesterday. And that's me pulling back into my safe range and the place that was broadening my own range was like, Oh, what if I leaned in a little bit to a little more tenderness and intimacy and relationship?

[00:46:31] So wherever we have resistance is often a compass for us saying, Hey, there's some work that you could be doing in this direction. 

[00:46:38] CK: [00:46:38] Yeah. Reflecting back on my relationship with some of my closest friends who are very effective entrepreneurs, and one of them told me his mental model when he works with his, in his, people.

[00:46:57] Okay. As a leader his 

[00:47:01] Adam: [00:47:01] job, 

[00:47:02] CK: [00:47:02] is to get the most out of his people as the way to support the company. So whatever that particular employee needs he will provide, whether it be very masculine just very intentional and directional command, he would do it. And whether it be very feminine, supportive space, he would do that too.

[00:47:21] So I think to your point, essentially, that's where you're referring to. Is that, right? Accurate again, re reflection of what you were saying. 

[00:47:30] Adam: [00:47:30] Yep, absolutely. 

[00:47:33] CK: [00:47:33] Cool. There's a lot of different directions that we can go for honing in on the seven year journey of being prominent. Were there specific places of moments of like doubts and should I continue with this? And shouldn't I do it. And nobody's listening, share with us a little bit of the internal journey as you're sharing more and more of you.

[00:48:08] Adam: [00:48:08] Yeah. Yeah. So I find just as a precursor to this, that. Aye, Create a breakthrough and move past my fears, but it's not like I passed them in a linear sense. And it's by fears, you're gone. It's more like a lap them. So I'll like over lap a lap them, if I'm on a racetrack, that's circular. And or like a spiral going outwards.

[00:48:35] And so what'll happen is I'll overcome my fears in one area. And then I start to play the next game, the next bigger game for me. And then I'm like, what the heck? Once again, I'm afraid of not being enough or I'm afraid of being whatever the fear is. One place where this really showed up from me was I led I'd been leading coach training for about five years at this organization that completely transformed my life.

[00:49:01] And it was time for me to move on. And my wife, who's a coach and I started partnering with a really prominent coach in the coaching space. He was really, well-known very magnetic individual and over time I just, I, I. Ended up leading a bunch of his work. So he was running these large intensives and I was running about 200 people or so, and I was running the leadership team, which is about 40 people.

[00:49:32] And what was happening was a couple of things. One because of the position I had it. Cast a halo, like people were like, Oh, it's Adam. So I had some, fame or some a bit of a platform through this person. There was, I got to be beside him. He drew a bunch of people. And then those people saw me as a bit of a right-hand man or whatever you want to call it.

[00:49:57] And then. We would get into a conversation and then I've created clients from that. And what happened was I found myself towards the end of my time there at these events really resentful. And I was resenting this person who had given me a lot of support given me a lot of space. And I noticed what was going on was I'd be at these events and I'd spent all my time outside of the main room, just sitting there, chatting with people, connecting, but ah, this person they're doing it wrong.

[00:50:25] So I was like, let's look at that. That's weird because I'm choosing to be here and yet I'm showing up resentful. What's that about? And as I was. Moving through some work. What started to come forward was, Oh, I'm resentful of him for doing it wrong because I'm not willing to create my own stage and have me be the target of resentment.

[00:50:49] I'm not willing to show up and do it wrong myself, and then feel the same energy. It's easier for me to sit in the wings, so to speak and project Adam. It became very clear to me at that point Oh, I got to create my own thing. At this point, I got to stop being behind someone and I got to step out and start making my own intensives or whatever it was.

[00:51:12] And because you asked about doubt, Holy crap, was that terrifying? Like I just, I had all of these thoughts that were like, How are you going to create the same following? Cause you don't have this person doing all that work for you and it's all going to go away. And who the hell are you to run? All of those thoughts.

[00:51:30] And I guess it's been maybe two, and a half years since we stepped away from that. And. No, we're still building it, it's not like we left. And then everything was magically finished and completed, but I noticed those doubts are starting to go away. And now there's new doubts showing up because I'm up to something beyond just recreating that.

[00:51:52] But that's a great example where it was clearly the right move. And yet all of my fears no, stay here. This is safe. And you have a steady stream of clients and bloods. Oh, blah, blah, blah. 

[00:52:03] CK: [00:52:03] Yeah. Thank you for being so open about it. 

[00:52:05] Adam: [00:52:05] Happy to 

[00:52:08] CK: [00:52:08] There is a journey to step into prominence, really for everyone whatever, the aspiration or the intention destination is.

[00:52:19] Whether you're a YouTube influencer or whether you're a thought leader, whether you're entrepreneur, whether you're a leader within your organization, whether you're going for, to be a politician, the stern amount of vulnerability, you're stepping into the unknown of not knowing.

[00:52:34] So I, I would say it's. Totally normal. It's part of the human journey of is this for me? Am I good enough? Should I be doing this? So what about just staying in me being safe in my comfort zone in my job, in my position under the wing of somebody else. I love that. So what did it actually take for you to move beyond the resistance?

[00:53:01] Because I'm one mainstay the. Is my experience. I'd love to hear your thoughts around it. Get tactical. Things are actually easy to execute is the inner resistance that takes most of work to break through. So what did it take for you to break through the inner resistance, the self-doubt and all of the other mental chatters?

[00:53:25] Adam: [00:53:25] I'm going to give another example where this is more appreciative, like more present if that's okay. Because at this point in my career I'd been I'd probably been coaching for about a decade. I had a bunch of work under my belt, so I was really clear, like I can't. I really believe that as a coach, you have to lead, you can't talk about, do this and then be a different way.

[00:53:46] It just doesn't work. So I was really clear. I got to move on. There's no other choice. But when I first started this work, I was working as a lawyer and building my coaching practice on the side. And what happened was I'd arranged for the person I was working with. We were going to start from together and I was going to work part time, which was like, And it wastes us in this desert of the legal practice.

[00:54:07] Like how do you manage to make that happen? And I realized one day I woke up and I thought, fuck, I don't want anything to do with the practice of law. I don't want to work part time as a lawyer. I want to spend all my life coaching. That's what I think I'm here to do. I'm just doing law. Cause I'm afraid.

[00:54:22] I don't think I can make this work and. So what happened was I got a ton of support from my coach and the people that I had a lot of support structures and, I went into work and I said, Hey, it's not going to, you know what? I gotta, either get this airplane up off the ground or smash it into the mountain face.

[00:54:44] That's the only choices I can really make. And then I had three months left between giving this notice and when I was going to quit and every single morning, I woke up with two thoughts. The first was maybe today's the day I let my partner know I made a mistake and actually I'm going to stick around.

[00:55:03] And the other thought that kept spinning around was like, Hey, life's not so bad. Maybe you should stick around this isn't that bad. This is pretty good. You like being a lawyer, you get, and I did enjoy some parts of it. And so it was interesting. Cause my fear just kept look how good life currently is.

[00:55:21] Don't leave this behind and to actually stay the course required a tremendous amount of support conversation every week with my coach, my wife standing for me to do something beyond what was obvious and easy. And the last thing I'll say is of course, like we said earlier, the whole world I'd created around me, greed with my fear.

[00:55:40] It was like, don't do this coaching thing. It's wacky and crazy. Be a lawyer. It's the gold standard of success. Like. All of that stuff. 

[00:55:48] CK: [00:55:48] How did you come to the car inclusion? Coaching is your Dominic path that this is the thing that you really want to devote your life to 

[00:55:57] Adam: [00:55:57] with a lot of bumps and scrapes.

[00:56:01] The coach training program, I, the second one I took, two in the second one. Then when I later on led was very. You could say like adamant that the path to be a relevant, powerful potent coach that makes a difference for people is you got to just keep doing your own work. And so during my year of training and actually subsequent, like the years I was leading, I was still getting a lot of this training.

[00:56:26] I had so much story in my head that coaching was a bullshit profession. It was, I wanted to do it. And at the same time, it's watered down and it's weird. And most of the people in it are making very little money and are frankly not really trained or just have a ton of stories, many of which are born out in reality.

[00:56:48] And, I was in this it was almost a little schizophrenia. There was a part of me that was like, I so want to believe this is possible. And another part of me that was actively being cynical about it. I really want this to be a thing. It's not a thing. And so I was in this war I guess. And. What would happen is I would create a small breakthrough and see Oh wow.

[00:57:11] I can really see how this actually does make a difference because I let it make a difference for me. And then that would move some of that stuff out of the way. And the other thing that made a difference is in spite of all of those fears and stories, yelling in my ear, I kept practicing. So I stayed in action.

[00:57:27] I kept coaching people because I, really wanted to believe it. And what would happen is every week or every two weeks or every month, or however, it was something would shift for someone and I, or something would shift for me. And I'd be like, I really think there's merit in this. I think there's magic here.

[00:57:42] Those voices still show up from time to time. By the way, less often, way less, but maybe like once a year, these days, once a year, there's still a moment where I'm like, am I doing anything? Is this making any difference for people? Is this all just a Ponzi scheme? I move through it a lot faster now.

[00:57:59] CK: [00:57:59] Yeah. It's like the dojo behind, me. It's the internal Hey, am I actually shifting the way? I think the way I act, the way I'm being. 

[00:58:12] Adam: [00:58:12] Yes. 

[00:58:13] CK: [00:58:13] As well as am I actually making a difference for the people that I talk to? I would have to say in doing this podcast very similar to, in that sense is this actually making any difference?

[00:58:27] I enjoy my conversation with my guests, but the ripple effect, is it actually helping someone else? We don't know until the signal comes back, I'm like, Oh my God, I was thinking about suicide. Thank you so much for really talking about your, guests staring down the barrel of a gun thinking about whether or not to pull the trigger.

[00:58:54] Now, look at his journey and where he's at right now. I've decided to choose otherwise Oh shit. The thing that we do here, the ripple effect is on thinkable. We don't know. And you may, and it has. Save people's lives literally. So 

[00:59:13] Adam: [00:59:13] yeah, we never it's. Part of the tragedy is cast in a negative light, but like part of the truth of being a human being is we never get to see our light because it's shining.

[00:59:25] Everywhere we go. So when I come into, or when you come into a room, we're all like, Oh, got a little more CKE in here. When you leave. We're like, that's a little less CK, but you never get that because everywhere you go, that's the way you, see the world through that light. And so I'm with you, like creating our art, be it a podcast or whatever can often be this.

[00:59:46] Experience of toiling in obscurity a little bit, because we can't see the difference we're making. And so it requires a lot of trust, a lot of willingness, like this is the truth. That's here for me to express in this moment and I'm going to trust it's a gift. 

[01:00:00] CK: [01:00:00] Are there practices that you do regularly as a way to continue to trust, continue to surrender, continuing to hone your craft.

[01:00:08] In spite of all the negative inner chatter's happening. 

[01:00:13] Adam: [01:00:13] Yeah. The biggest one is recognizing and asking for my very human need to be acknowledged. So we'll unpack that. But like the first reason I say recognizing is because most of us are actively in this conversation with ourselves. It's I don't need to be recognized.

[01:00:32] That's needy, that's weak. We need it. It's human. We want to be valued where we have an innate desire to be an impact and to have value, and we need to be recognized for it. And since we're also adamant that we don't need it, we're We're just starved for it, which is why you get things like the boss that sort of ostensibly is giving praise to his team.

[01:00:55] But you find out all that praise is really about how awesome he is as a boss. That's because that guy can't own that he needs recognition and he can't be responsible for getting it because he's pretending it's not there. So one, I recognize I need acknowledgement. I'm up to a lot. So I need a lot of acknowledgement.

[01:01:12] Like I'm holding a lot of stuff for a lot of people. It's it can be thankless work at times. Yeah. So recognize that truth. And then too, I have a lot of people that I can ask for acknowledgement and I do. And that doesn't mean, can you tell me my hair looks nice. I asked them to acknowledge me for can you acknowledge me for who I'm being in the world?

[01:01:33] And then those people will say whatever they have to say, but they'll be like, yeah know, thanks for. Thanks for your commitment to just keep doing this. I don't know. I'm just making it up. But that's so nourishing and we need it so much and we're all anemic. We're all lacking it because we're so insistent.

[01:01:53] No, I'm strong and I don't need anyone to tell me. I'm all right. And it's no, we do. And it's a beautiful gift to give to people to let them acknowledge us. Yeah. 

[01:02:03] CK: [01:02:03] Thank you for that. You know what you resist persists. And really want the acknowledgement that I can't tell you, because that would make me look weak.

[01:02:14] Then what happened is his weird creepy vibe. Yes, please love me, but don't tell me, you love me. Like a weird 

[01:02:23] Adam: [01:02:23] compliment me, and then I'm going to bat it away. But compliment me and you're like, and then we get tired of playing that game because it feels weird. 

[01:02:30] CK: [01:02:30] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you for owning that.

[01:02:33] We're all human for sure. Who doesn't like to be acknowledged. 

[01:02:37] Adam: [01:02:37] Totally. 

[01:02:40] CK: [01:02:40] Very good. So share with us a little bit about sort of the way you think about using social media as a infrastructure to. Put your creative output because I see you everywhere. You continue to write, you have Instagram, you have YouTube videos, you have young Cora, like how do you think about using social media as infrastructure, shoe shining a light.

[01:03:11] Adam: [01:03:11] It's cool to hear you say that cause my, internal voice is I'm not doing enough, but there is a lot of places where I am. So I think the heart of any service-based business, we'll say, and I, suspect these days probably whatever the product is, business is, this is true for as well, but like the heart of all of that is connection.

[01:03:35] And. It's fine to create our art by ourselves in a cave, but then the world misses out on that. And your art won't have the impact it's here to have. You'll get to my camera's doing wacky stuff. There we go. Just gonna focus back. You'll get to, I trust. It's going to focus back. It's all fuzzy.

[01:03:56] There we go. You'll get to create your art. Totally is that going to phase myself up so we can create our art by ourselves and keep it to ourselves and we'll get to avoid what's scary, which is that people might criticize it, but we never have the different, we never make the difference we want to make in the world.

[01:04:15] And so social media provides this beautiful opportunity to do what Austin Kleon who wrote show your work, which is a phenomenal book. He calls it like our job is to publish and it used to be, you could only publish if you knew someone who had a Gutenberg press and ran a newspaper, but these days we have all of these ways we can publish.

[01:04:38] And what that does is it, allows us to share art with the world and then the world can respond and tell us, I like that, I'm not paying attention to. And that helps us. Get beyond our own inner critic. Cause we are terrible at determining what we create that's artful and what is garbage. The world can help us with that and will the world is more than happy to tell you what other things.

[01:05:01] And so I think Social media is a gift in two ways. One is because it allows us to publish our art and to share our art as an act of generosity of the world. And two, it gives us an opportunity to confront our fears that are getting in the way of doing that. It's Oh, I'm going to share this and what's going to happen.

[01:05:20] I'm going to hit this live button and it's going to go on. We'll find out. 

[01:05:25] CK: [01:05:25] Thank you for that for sure. Yeah, I love you pulling the, printing press. That's. That's awesome.

[01:05:38] I like it a lot, but how do you bucket the different offers that you have? Because in my mind, as a creative person, you can write a billion things at bill different ways. So how you think about. You know how write on Twitter and I on Quora and so forth. So I'll, share my, maybe that would be a pick up point there.

[01:06:09] I used to think that it needs to be so profound, like the doubt there, gene, like Confucius so I never say anything cause it's never good enough to measure up to that level. And then I shifted my mindset to, Hey, this is a journey I'm just sharing bits and pieces as I'm figuring things out myself.

[01:06:31] So that takes the pressure off a lot. Right now I look at, okay. So there's a lot of different work that I do. How can I share more readily my intermediary packets? 

[01:06:46] My, teacher calls it cellular assault dust. So as I researched share, as I find it, interesting quote share as I, have something that's stewing ideas, sketch mode share right then and now social media is just.

[01:07:01] Different buckets. I can put these intermediary packets into curious to know your thought of how you think about that sort of the metacognition in the way you share different things to different platforms. 

[01:07:17] Adam: [01:07:17] First of all, I love that it's still, your sawdust is such a brilliant, very profound, and I can relate to what you're saying.

[01:07:22] Like I want to hit the highest watermark of profundity and then, so then nothing ever gets shared So to be honest, like I, I feel pretty I'll just share my, the way it looks for me, which is not that sophisticated. Like for the most part, Facebook's been the platform I've chosen to share my art on and yeah.

[01:07:45] Frankly, it's hard. I find it really difficult to divide my energy to Twitter. And then now people are like, you've got to get on Tik, TOK and dance at them. And then I'm just like, Aw, man, I can't get on all. I just can't. And so the way it works for me is I tend to just put whatever I put onto Facebook and then I have an assistant and she syndicates, or she puts that stuff into LinkedIn to YouTube, to wherever and.

[01:08:11] So that tends to be my strategy. And then there are outliers. Like I have a lot of stuff that I've written on Quora more just out of boredom. No, I'm just bored. And I was looking through Quora and I would see questions pertaining to leadership that are just the same answers everyone was giving on leadership.

[01:08:30] And I was like, ah, there's such a more profound way to speak to this. Okay. I'm going to write it. And then I just started doing that. Not because there was a strategy or because I thought it was going to. Create something, but because I felt inspired to do that. And so I really I'm a big fan of learning to hear the voiceover inspiration and following that a little bit more in terms of that stuff, rather than Oh, I gotta be on Facebook.

[01:08:54] I gotta get a LinkedIn profile. All of that to me. Kills inspiration. 

[01:09:00] CK: [01:09:00] Yeah. So the tagline of this particular segment could be trust your creative boredom. 

[01:09:08] Adam: [01:09:08] Yep. I love that. Totally. 

[01:09:11] CK: [01:09:11] Yeah. It's, so true. Beautiful. By the way, I saw your dancing videos. That's a very unique mechanism, a very unique superpower that you have.

[01:09:25] I don't know if you, so I was interviewing a few different musicians Freddie Reval, which you know, who he literally has a keyboard underneath his desk. So whenever he feels inspired doing a pocket's interview, he can just play the chords his point. Okay. And I was like, that is masterful.

[01:09:46] I love that. That's so unique. No one can the Freddie Reval the way he does it, right? Yes. If dancing is a unique superpower that you have. I highly recommend you bringing that aspect of who you are and then the movement part, right? Being the body and as a way to cultivate that inner tire itself, just as a suggestion not do, what you may with it.

[01:10:19] Share with us. For me, when I saw the way you dance, I was like, Oh, that's awesome. I love that. I want to see more of that. Can you share with me a little bit about how you got into that in the first place? 

[01:10:31] Adam: [01:10:31] Yeah. And I'll share a little bit of how I, one of the ways I integrate that. Two of my teaching.

[01:10:35] If that's of interest, 

[01:10:37] CK: [01:10:37] it is 

[01:10:38] Adam: [01:10:38] please. So the, spouse of dance I learned and taught are popping, locking. A lot of people would know them as the way people often think of them. It's if you've ever seen a bunch of breakdancers. I'm the guy that never touches the floor. I'm always standing up and waving or strobe lighting or dancing like a robot.

[01:10:58] And so I got into these styles because I loved breaking when I was young, but I was a nerd or at least I related to myself as a nerd. So I was a kid playing magic, the gathering in the library and, the cool kids were break dancing in the gym. And I so wanted to go and learn what they were doing, but they were cool and made fun of me.

[01:11:18] And so I just didn't. I didn't even try. And so what happened was I, secretly did it. As best I could. I eventually went to a rave when I was about 19 and I saw people doing something similar and because of the way raves were and the high use of ecstasy or Molly or whatever it's called these days, I had this real experience like, wow, you can do whatever you want.

[01:11:41] And it's accepted and amazing. And that got me down this path of wanting to learn how to dance. And so I went to our local hip hop store and I said, Hey, do you have a video on this wet noodle style of dance? I dunno what it is. And they're like, Oh, you gotta check out this guy called wiggles. So I bought this tape, this VHS tape, and I plugged it into my VCR and I just watched it with my friend, my best friend on loop.

[01:12:04] And we just studied what he did. What is fascinating about this to me is I. Learned this dance by watching someone on video. And I, really was committed to practicing in front of a mirror. So my technique was spot on, but I was all technique and no soul. And eventually the founders for these styles of dance came to where I live and I got this chance to, for about one week and then another week, a year later to train with the founders.

[01:12:33] And it was really interesting because I thought they were going to teach me the right technique. That was going to open my dance wide up. And instead they had me doing stuff like the funky chicken. And these dances called like the Bart Simpson, which is super simple. And I was mad. I was looking through my notes not too long ago.

[01:12:52] And it's was like, Oh, these debts suck. This is stupid. When are we going to do this? And on the other side of that, what happened was they brought soul. They brought the soul of dancing underneath my technique. So I'd learned this like really soul. I was like a painter who paints. Beautifully intricate work and there's no heart to it.

[01:13:14] There's no soul. And that's such a perfect metaphor for how I was showing up as a human being. I would say all the right words to connect with someone without any connection underneath that, I would tell the perfect jokes without any real mirth present in me. And the journey of, me becoming an actual dancer who really dances rather than just some technician who can do a lot of stuff really well has been a mirror for my journey as a human being.

[01:13:43] CK: [01:13:43] There's a lot I'm, this is a smile of recognition. I told her I was an excellent tactician or a technician. Know, like I was telling you earlier, the head it was operating on its own. Everything else was its job is to carry the head that's about it. I have to learn how to actually find my own soul right in my heart.

[01:14:10] So my heart, body, and spirit, all of it integrated together as a way to really operate truly as my most integrated, highest self. Show where there's a little bit of a you wanted to share your curriculum with the movement part. 

[01:14:26] Adam: [01:14:26] Yeah. Yeah. This is just a small example. So like with, what's called an arm wave, it's hard because we don't have much view and probably won't translate well on audio, but I'm gonna do it anyhow.

[01:14:37] An arm wave looks like this. So the wave passes through your arm, up through your hands, whatever. And when people wanted to, yeah, that's pretty good. So when people wanted to learn this, when they come to work with me, we start by teaching them each isolation, which means first, just moving your fingers down and then moving your fingers and then your wrist, and then back up so that you can break each step of the wave down into its individual components.

[01:15:02] That's boring for people. They're like, why am I just moving my fingers back and forth? I want to do that whole arm wave thing that you're doing. Cause that's sexy. That's what gets me the dates on the dance floor. It doesn't, I've tried, but still that's the, thinking. And and, the truth is what people then want to do is they speed through it.

[01:15:22] Because if I do it quick, I don't have to see where I'm not catching each isolation. And I find this is such a mirror for our learning process. One of the things I'm really inspired to do lately is to support. Coaches and entrepreneurs to, create prosperous practices, to really create clients as a, an effortless expression of themselves being in relationship with people rather than running sales scripts, which most of us hate.

[01:15:50] And so the first step in that is learning how to just connect with another human being without any agenda beyond that. And most people were like, but Adam, how do I connect with the right human being? Oh, that's your agenda already. You're trying to figure out where the right people to connect with are so you can get them as a client stop doing that, just begin by connecting with people.

[01:16:10] And so their resistance here is a lot like people's resistance to doing that first part of the arm wave. They're like, but this won't get me the money and the sex and all this stuff I want. And it's I so understand. I, so get that feeling. And at the same time, I promise if you've learned this foundational piece and then we can layer the next piece on top.

[01:16:30] It's all going to click for you. And you're going to, it's going to make so much more sense. So it gives me a lot of empathy for them because I've been that guy like, but I want to do the cool thing. Take me right there. 

[01:16:40] CK: [01:16:40] I want to do the fastest thing. I wonder do the biggest thing. I want to get to the grand gestures.

[01:16:46] And I love the fact that you have them focused on the foundational piece. I call it the atomic unit. Skill of anything at people may think like M C K and Adam subcon does some really esoteric things while we're not it's is having the, mental model is the atomic unit of whatever it is that we're trying to, it could be breathing.

[01:17:11] It could be the way you stand so, I so appreciate the way that you articulated. How does one as a, recovering cerebral list and talking to the current Adam, how would you recommend someone who's super Hetty who understood who can say brilliant things, but they don't embody it.

[01:17:38] They don't live it. They don't have the heart and soul behind it. How would you, what are some of the atomic units skills? But you can advise them to get more into the soul and the heart and be integrated human beings. 

[01:17:55] Adam: [01:17:55] So one of the first things that brilliant people do I call this the quality of brilliance is we, filter everything through.

[01:18:05] Do I agree with this? Or do I disagree with this? And. And we're pretty good at that because we've amassed wide body of knowledge. So it's E we are good at checking with it and the trouble is that what can get in then is only the stuff we agree with. And if we disagree with it, it can it's, discarded, it's set aside.

[01:18:27] And what that ensures is that all we ever get is something that's already consistent with what we already know. I'm going to provide a few practices. But the first thing I want to do is set up this context and invitation to brilliant people to, instead of asking, do I agree with this? Ask themselves a question where, and how is this true so that the temptation is.

[01:18:52] Is that true, which is another version of, do I agree with that? And instead, the opportunity is to ask where and how is it true? I'm going to assume it's true now, where do I find it? And, then the, place that we can begin to look is like what's missing in my life. What, is not what I want it to be?

[01:19:11] Where am I dissatisfied? And because brilliant people tend to create a life that's eight out of 10 it's across the board. So our life is pretty good and most people would give their right arm for it, but we know we're like, ah, I'm not hitting the tense. And so part of what allows us to begin opening up is to ask what, where am I settling for eight out of 10 instead of 10 out of 10.

[01:19:37] And that's going to start to give you a path like. Okay. What would I start to create if I wanted to make a 10 and a 10, and then this can of course drive up all our resistance and blah, blah, blah, blah. But this, allows for the beginning of the journey, I think. 

[01:19:51] CK: [01:19:51] So actually I have a follow-up question here.

[01:19:53] This is inquiry. I don't have an answer here, but it's more of an inquiry. So some may say the progress or the innovators of our time come from a place of discontent. And at the same time, a discontent also is a source of suffering. Yes. There seems a lot of paradoxical, right? Yeah. How do I be content?

[01:20:17] And at the same time I'm pushing our, the progress of humanity for, so if you can say a little bit more about that, cause it's, a natural segue to what you just said. Yeah. 

[01:20:32] Adam: [01:20:32] That is the Most of the breakthroughs I find are in the paradoxes where we're like why can't I just be content with my life?

[01:20:42] But at the same time, discontent is the compass for me, that leads me towards what's next. And I guess I choose one or the other and I don't have a really clean answer, but the truth is often. In walking the tightrope between those two, like this was the best art I was able to create and I can do better.

[01:21:03] So how can I be totally delighted with the art I've created in the moment and at the same time, stand for something that I can create beyond this. How can I continue to strive to do better in my life and be completely content with where I'm at right now? And I don't have, these are This is a great example of where words will fail us.

[01:21:25] Cause that's probably what you do with your clients is certainly what I do with my clients is I help them live into that rather than give them a prescription to like, then go and do, and ha, now I've got the rule to do this. Now I've solved a crap. We're back inside the same water. 

[01:21:41] CK: [01:21:41] Yeah. I don't have an answer either.

[01:21:44] It's, like I said earlier, it's an inquiry. I agree with the premise. Progress of humanity. Innovation does come from a place of discontent and at the same time, if we totally live in that discontent, it's a miserable life. 

[01:22:01] Adam: [01:22:01] I 

[01:22:01] CK: [01:22:01] just not on-duty I've been there. So I, know it's not fun. It leads to a really dark place.

[01:22:09] At the same time, if I'm totally content, which is great. And then there is no problem, like problem, no problem in the world. And I don't want you to solve anything anymore. So I, love a little bit back to what you were saying earlier if you, I can't remember how you articulated, if I'm totally satisfied with my life, what do I want to do?

[01:22:32] Something like that, right? Yeah. I think that's a really good forcing function. If I'm totally satisfied with my life, I'm all the money into all the time. I've done my vacation time that I'm actually bored of vacations. What do I continue? Want to dedicate my life? My energy, my creativity towards, I think that's a really good place to start and look, looping back to I recently came across  

[01:22:58] Adam: [01:22:58] I?

[01:22:58] Yes, he's brilliant. 

[01:23:00] CK: [01:23:00] Yeah his, Almanac. And he said something along the line of. The source of suffering is not getting what you want or something like that. And how I interpret that to this conversation is minimize our non-negotiables. As in if I have a lot of non-negotiables and now be discontent all over the place.

[01:23:28] But if I have just one or two areas, non-negotiables, then I'm flexible everywhere. And then these, I can focus all my energy on innovating and, or improving the lives of in this area, per se. Am I making sense here? 

[01:23:48] Adam: [01:23:48] Yeah. I was just thinking as you're, making total sense and I was thinking like that's such a novel kind of approach.

[01:23:55] Like when I listened to him, he's very he's figured so much out and Again what, shows up for me is our range. So if my if my rain, what a lot of people's ranges is How do I get to be more content? And then eventually we end up with to your point, there's nothing. We want four we've eliminated one.

[01:24:21] The truth is that existence to be alive as a human being includes degree of suffering, it is inherent because we as, a. As a being have an infinite amount of expression that's available and a finite amount of time to express it. So we will never put all ourselves out there. So if you just even sit with that truth, there's inherent heartbreak to it.

[01:24:46] And so some people. They, relate to like heartbreak is bad and shouldn't be therefore, how do I solve heartbreak in my life? I will be content exactly where I am and never want for anything. Now I can rest and it's that's fine. But you're missing out on a part of life to your point, right?

[01:25:06] But our heartbreak does source something that sources beautiful poetry and music and it creates incredible innovation. And so the question I always turn back to is how can I be with more of what is showing up in my life? 

[01:25:18] CK: [01:25:18] Yeah. And whoever's going for that worry-free life. This is one man's opinion, not the truth is that's an illusion, it's a horizon you're never get there because just like our desires discontentedness also infinite.

[01:25:41] So wherever you are right now it's, good to be aware and be really the, concept of what we're. I don't know if you've done with Pasana or not, but I have. Have you done him a Pasa? 

[01:25:52] Adam: [01:25:52] I've not I've, sat in like silent meditative retreats, but not specific the Vipassana format. 

[01:25:58] CK: [01:25:58] So the Vipassana for my basically go over the mechanics of how.

[01:26:03] Buddha go through my, the Buddha or achieve his enlightenment just, the mechanics. Not necessarily, the religiosity of it. It trains you to be economists, not crave for things that you really, want, but yet don't have. Or be aversion to the, doing the negative emotions that you do have, but don't want, so then drew really sit with that. And in my mind, the interpretation of equal equanimity is just be with everything. Yeah. All 

[01:26:37] Adam: [01:26:37] right. Just 

[01:26:37] CK: [01:26:37] be with that as a way to just enjoy all of it. That's the short summary of my takeaway. I'm curious to know so what was your number one takeaway from sitting in that meditation retreat?

[01:26:52] Adam: [01:26:52] I'll, share what mine was, a vision fast. So it was four days sitting in an eight foot circle with no food, no, a little bit of water and no one around me. And just, all I could do was sit in that circle, but up to pee one day or one time, each day and then sleep, that was for four days. And it was one of the hardest things I've ever done because it was so boring and I love being stimulated and.

[01:27:18] Boy, what is the thing I took away from that? What I took away from it was how attached I am to what I took away from it was how attached I am still all of this work, decade of work, still super attached to stuff. And when you take that away, wow, it's hard for me to be with that. 

[01:27:40] CK: [01:27:40] Yeah. Thanks for sharing that for me, the biggest one was the insanity of the mine.

[01:27:48] Ah, yes. Cause all that creativity, all that energy, all that craving for stimulation. You had nowhere to go for the first three days of POS. Now all you're supposed to do, technically you're supposed to focus with just this 

[01:28:01] Adam: [01:28:01] area, right? 

[01:28:03] CK: [01:28:03] And I was like, 

[01:28:04] Adam: [01:28:04] are you like, 

[01:28:08] CK: [01:28:08] this is six hours of it already. I can't handle it anymore.

[01:28:12] And then my, we would just create images of like fantasy of the past future. And they're just like all the energy. And I had to just sit with it and just be okay with it. And that is one of the hardest thing that. Ever done. I've sat in a lot of different things. 

[01:28:31] Adam: [01:28:31] Yes. Yeah. I really left wow.

[01:28:34] Solitary confinement really is a form of torture. Like I can see why people go back into the prison population where they're at risk of being murdered over sitting in a room by themselves for days on end.

[01:28:48] CK: [01:28:48] So curious to know what some of the, other transformative peak experiences. Technologies inner technologies that you've come across really help you open your eyes to see blind spots to elevate your consciousness?

[01:29:10] Adam: [01:29:10] By far the most powerful one I've found is working with my own coach because I'm in a committed, ongoing relationship because what. Will happen with me. First of all, I created myself as a man who doesn't need support. That's how I has that works for living from your head up. Everything's controlled, managed.

[01:29:30] I got this. I don't need your support. You won't see me vulnerable. And so the way I tend to be about support, even when I do allow it is I get it when I need it. And then I'm like, now I'm good. And so one of the things it's funny, we're talking about technologies, I'm the technology. The first one is commitment to ongoing support.

[01:29:54] So every week I know I'm in a call with my coach. And what's fascinating is when, you start to commit to that kind of ongoing support, one of the first things me and my people will learn is that we've been living a life that doesn't require much support. Oh, this is the life I can create on my own.

[01:30:12] And there's a much bigger game to create like the play in my life that I can't do without that kind of support. And so it requires me to lean over the edge in ways I just wouldn't do by myself because they wouldn't be possible by myself. So that's the first one. And then like modalities I've been exploring lately.

[01:30:34] I've been drawn to plant medicines. So I WASC I've sat in ceremony a few times. And what I find with Iowasca is it provides an incredibly profound insight and you're doing some real work for however many days. You're sitting in ceremony. The danger is we don't often invest in the ongoing support after that.

[01:30:56] So like we talked at the top of this conversation, we can get pushed back. To our old way of being, but that is pretty potent. And the third thing I'll share is coming out of that, I felt drawn to more like indigenous teachings. So like that teacher, I, the shaman, I guess I was working with for awhile for about most of last year was a combination of inkind teachings.

[01:31:20] First nations here on the West coast of Canada. In-kind teachings like from Peru or that, area. And then a lot of first nations from the West coast to Canada and stuff like that. And just like the wisdom that's been around for millennia that we're just starting to pay some heat to really , 

[01:31:47] CK: [01:31:47] there's a lot to impact. So that's, your one by one, if you don't mind.

[01:31:53] Talk about teams. So your coach is part of your championship team, right? Yes. What are the criteria that you've used as a way to chose, choose your coach? Yeah, 

[01:32:11] Adam: [01:32:11] so I look to there being what that means is not doing, I think this person knows how to sell a product or do I think this person is good at creating clients?

[01:32:25] Or do I think this person's not so much their results, but is the way they occur to me. As a human in front of me, do I feel a depth of being, do they feel really fully expressed? Is there a way that I feel with them that inspires me? That's what I want from my coach. Someone who's got a lot of depth and then the other thing is a little bit of intimidation.

[01:32:47] So this coach I'm working with now. I can remember she showed up, she was, she did a guest spot in the year long training I took and she really pissed me off because we were going through spirituality this weekend. And I was having a challenge entering a question. At one point, she just casually, she was working the whole room and she was like, how about you?

[01:33:08] Are you going to play with us or not? I was like, fuck you, I'm struggling here. But are you talking about, and in that question she was, she just was not giving my struggle, the significance that I was, she was asking a question. It was like, Hey, you don't have to struggle in this. Just show up.

[01:33:27] And I was like, no, but the struggle is real. You don't understand. And that pissed me off. And so when we've been working together now for maybe four, maybe even five years, and at the start, I told her like, Hey I got to tell you, really pissed me off at the start. And so that's a little bit there and she was really gracious about it and just Oh wow, I get that.

[01:33:46] What do you like, what do you need from me? She cleaned it up really beautifully and gave me the space to share all of that. So that's, those are the things I really want from a coach is like full expression of being that's inspiring and a little bit of intimidation. 

[01:34:01] CK: [01:34:01] Thank you for that. 

[01:34:04] Adam: [01:34:04] Awesome.

[01:34:06] CK: [01:34:06] Let's talk about plant medicine. That could, be a big topic. 

[01:34:11] Adam: [01:34:11] That's totally. 

[01:34:13] CK: [01:34:13] So for someone who was super of yourself they lawyer's software engineer and turn coach, how did you ended up choosing plant medicines? A path. 

[01:34:30] Adam: [01:34:30] So I, the interesting thing is that wall, a software developer and a lawyer, I was abusing substances, like crazy, and I'm pretty responsible, but I never let myself get into anything like cocaine or crystal meth or anything that was like really the potential I'm aware, I've habit forming.

[01:34:49] So I like stale from those hardcore things, but like pot, alcohol, those I used a lot and And as a youth, I'd always as a youth, that's a weird way to put it as a kid. I'd eat mushrooms with friends just to get fucked up. And, but there's no reverence around any of this. It was just something to do to get high and to feel what I was not able to feel in my life.

[01:35:14] That's where I was consuming substances. As a lawyer was I had that hard off to such an extent I was using substances to bypass the structures I'd put in place that kept me in prison. What started to happen was I sounds funny, but I just felt called in these directions. I had this thought like, Hey, I'd like to revisit psilocybin, but with a lot more reverence with some ceremony around it, some structure and I, a Wasco was this thing that.

[01:35:46] I started hearing about it and people would show up in my life that would be I'd meet somebody who was a shaman and they'd be like, Hey, you should come sit in ceremony with me. And I'd think, ah, I don't, you don't feel like you're being, doesn't feel clean. You feel a little weird or sketchy. I'm not going to trust you.

[01:36:02] And the way I ended up staying in ceremony was a friend of mine said, Hey, I'm going to Costa Rica and just have her, do you want to come? And I was like, automatic. Yes, let's do it. And then I later found out it was to this week-long. Retreat center. That was all about Iowasca. And I was like, Oh great. It just came into existence.

[01:36:20] On the one hand you could say accidentally is the way that I found my way to it as a mature man, but I think it's a little woo, but I think more accurate would be that I just started to feel more and more called in that direction and I heated the call. 

[01:36:37] CK: [01:36:37] Awesome. Thank you for that. No, I appreciate it.

[01:36:41] Yeah. They, you trusted your friend and you surrender. Yes. Knowing what you know now, what would you say to the younger Adam of what you receive?

[01:36:58] Adam: [01:36:58] Oh, I don't think I'd change much about that. Younger Adam cause like his path led here and anything I could say, he would just argue with me and tell me why I'm wrong. So I'd be screwed as soon as I tried the, what I would say would, I would just love him a lot. I would just give him a lot of love and acknowledgement and and that would be, yeah, it would be whether it would be to do.

[01:37:25] CK: [01:37:25] So you wouldn't even introduce this modality to the younger Adam at all. 

[01:37:31] Adam: [01:37:31] I really don't think. I could have changed, like the way things unfolded and they've unfolded beautifully, like right on time, everything seems to be perfectly timed. I could've been like, Hey, there's this thing called coaching and you're not going to be a lawyer, but boy, I got so much from law school and I created early clients there and, it allowed me to.

[01:37:54] Do what societaly was the right thing for me to do. And then to choose out of that towards what was the right thing for me to do and making that choice if I short circuit it by trying to give me coaching as the path beforehand, I think I would have missed out on a whole bunch of richness.

[01:38:11] I guess it's almost feels like a cop-out answer, but the truest answer is, yeah I don't, know that I would try to have done anything different. 

[01:38:17] CK: [01:38:17] Yeah. I don't, think it sounds like a cop-out answer at all. I think we are the way we are, the ego wants to get things faster, easier, bigger, and bypass the difficulties.

[01:38:35] So I get that. Yeah. So I was actually asking, I wasn't asking the question from the ego side, like how do you bypass the difficulty? Because in my mind, I love the person I am today. And I wouldn't change a thing about anything about my past at all. All of the pains, the difficulties, the challenges, heartaches, everything, and all the wins as well.

[01:38:58] Because I get to appreciate so much joy and in gratitude, everything in my life because of my journey. So I wouldn't change a damn thing for sure. So I appreciate the way you answer it but, I would say. To maybe the younger version of CK probably is not the, accurate way to articulate it in precisely.

[01:39:22] Let's say to the listeners who are listening to this, how would you share. This particular modality to them. Maybe curious about it and maybe aware of it, maybe a little bit emanated by it. Maybe like what the fuck is this thing that they're talking about? It's totally not. It doesn't make sense.

[01:39:43] Why would you go to a place and drink this brew and whatever, Nick, I wonder if you have anything you want 

[01:39:52] Adam: [01:39:52] be there. Thanks for that clarification. Couple of thoughts. The first is when I came back from the vision fast. My dad asked me would you recommend this to anyone? And my answer was yes.

[01:40:08] If they feel called into it and not otherwise. Cause it was horrible and I'm glad I did it because I felt called into it. But if, someone was like, I'm going to do this to get more clients or don't terrible reason. So what I think w what would I say to people that are like, this is a weird modality?

[01:40:28] First I would affirm them. I'd be like, yeah it is, weird. And a lot of what is outside of our range will occur as weird. And if you had told me 10 years ago, Hey, 10 years from now, you're going to be this deeply spiritual man who has learned to let go of the brilliance in his head and sits in ceremony with shamans and has a following.

[01:40:55] I would have been like, fuck off. There's no way. None of that, especially not the spiritual part. And, I would really affirm, like it probably will feel weird and there's something, we can't really touch with our mind. And what, plant medicine allows us to do, is it, opens a window, not a door because you still have to do the work on the other side of it, but it opens a window to get beyond your mind.

[01:41:25] And that can really be profound. It can really have us get in touch with something. That'll start to break us through the perfect shell that our mind creates for us. 

[01:41:37] CK: [01:41:37] Thank you for that. Yeah. I'll probably say something similar to that. I will say to the, to someone else who's maybe curious about it.

[01:41:46] Maybe aware of it is if you're on this journey to discover the totality of what's possible for you as that unsaid, this gives you a window. It doesn't replace it. Doesn't fix it. An isn't change. Where you are, but to give you a glimpse of your potential, and then you have options to say, Hey, do I want to stay in this way of being in this way of action?

[01:42:16] This way of communication? Does it still serve me? And if it doesn't, Oh, I could change. It gave you that option, that clarity in my mind, the way articulate it is it doesn't. Let you escape realities, not escaping thing is actually an access to hyper-reality elect the veil so you can see Oh shit here are my illusions.

[01:42:46] And then at the end of ceremony, then you can pick and choose. Do I want to keep the illusions or not? That's the way articulate to anyone who's listening to this. 

[01:42:55] Adam: [01:42:55] Yeah. Yeah. I call that being put at choice. We, once we can see the truth, we can still choose back into the old way you get the choice of the red pill or the blue pill.

[01:43:06] And that's, I think that's beautiful the way you said that, it really allows us to Pierce that veil a little bit. 

[01:43:15] CK: [01:43:15] You want to talk about men's work a bit and then we'll jump in. It's just hard not to 

[01:43:19] Adam: [01:43:19] laugh. Yeah, it's all good. Talk connected. I'm sure. You want me to just jump in anywhere?

[01:43:27] Do you have a particular question you want to jump in? 

[01:43:31] CK: [01:43:31] Define men's work first. 

[01:43:33] Adam: [01:43:33] Yeah. 

[01:43:33] CK: [01:43:33] Sure. What does that mean for you? And what's your journey of men's work? 

[01:43:39] Adam: [01:43:39] So the teacher I work with, apparently I'm going to use his verbiage, which is traditionally we've talked about like these. Can almost call them like primordial energies of masculine energy and feminine.

[01:43:51] The teacher I use is he talks about alpha energy and Omega. 

[01:43:55] CK: [01:43:55] I actually am. So sorry, came track. I forgot to touch on the third point that you had mentioned. We were talking about learning from a wisdom teachers, right? The first nations, as well as. What was the other, the inking. Can you say a little bit more about that?

[01:44:10] Because as someone who used to be a lawyer who used to a software engineer, very elaborate. Yeah. Why the interest in studying the wisdom teachers from Peru as well as the first nations? 

[01:44:26] Adam: [01:44:26] I would say. Ultimately I felt called in that direction. So that's one of the things that's interesting for me is the first phase of my life is really like head-based brilliance learning to own my brilliance.

[01:44:42] And then second was heart-based billions brilliant. So coming out of my head, not figuring things out, but trusting that there's a brilliance inherent in the way I show up in the world. And then the third path has been like spiritual or spirit based brilliance. Which I'm just making these terms up. But for me, that is letting go of knowing how anything's going to turn out full stop and not needing to really know and trusting that there's some divine current that we're all flowing through.

[01:45:13] And that trusting that I can be with whatever showing up and I can handle myself no matter what happens and then surrendering into that and living my life from that place. And so as I've. Stepped more and more into that third stage. That's just what started to show up. It was like it wasn't even that I was like, Oh, I want to follow a shamonic path.

[01:45:37] It was like a friend was like, Hey, I'm working with a shaman. And I think you should know them. And then we started to talk and then this person was offering a course and I was like, great. I that's what I feel called to do. 

[01:45:48] CK: [01:45:48] Of course then what 

[01:45:50] Adam: [01:45:50] it was the way she described it was a course on. Her words would be like we're brainwashed.

[01:45:59] So we got to scrub all of that out. So you can start to see the truth at a deeper level. 

[01:46:04] CK: [01:46:04] And so her, our learning. 

[01:46:07] Adam: [01:46:07] Yeah. Yeah. Or unlearning might be an even better way to put it. It, was like, boy, was it a hard course? It was a ton of reading and reading. Not at all, like reading a book, like I'm reliable to do a lot of reading, got a background in law.

[01:46:20] This was like, the sentences were all loopy and it was hard to follow and the idea was. To learn, not to read something, but to be read by something. So I'd be reading this and then just notice what texts, what starts to come forward and show up. And that was coupled with the notion of the medicine wheel and moving through from child to adolescent, where most of the West is stuck in her teachings into adulthood, into elderhood and at progression that we move through and.

[01:46:53] So a lot of that stuff is still integrating in my head. I'm still like, what do I do with this? Nothing. Let it set for now. 

[01:47:00] CK: [01:47:00] So more sounds like a Japanese Cohen. 

[01:47:04] Adam: [01:47:04] That's a great way to just, there's a perfect metaphor for it. 

[01:47:07] CK: [01:47:07] Yeah. The whole idea of a koan, is it fucks with your rational mind? Doesn't make sense.

[01:47:13] Classical one would be what's the sound of one hand clapping rash or Maya is what the fuck is that? He's trying to, again, Chinese finger puzzle. What the fuck is this? And it's a similar to that of a POS on our experience with your mom, 

[01:47:31] Adam: [01:47:31] just 

[01:47:32] CK: [01:47:32] Oh my God, I can't figure it out.

[01:47:34] And then finally he couldn't take it any longer. And then his surrender, it gets what is truly trying to communicate in between the lines. 

[01:47:44] Adam: [01:47:44] Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly how it occurred. 

[01:47:50] CK: [01:47:50] Why? So you see your call too. I think your words were head brilliance, heart brilliance, and spirit brilliance. By the way, I love that you should write that down somewhere.

[01:48:05] Distinguish that for me one more time. So head would be to discipline them. Yeah, actually, I don't know projects. 

[01:48:10] Adam: [01:48:10] So H head-based brilliance like often. Most for brilliant people. We started even before that, because we can't own our brilliance because we're trained by the world that like don't.

[01:48:20] Get good results. So it's good to be brilliant, but don't own it because then you're a nerd or you're arrogant or whatever. So then we're like, ah, I'm smart, but I'm not that smart. We do all this weird caveating. So the first stage is like to own our head-based minutes to trust. No, I'm really smart.

[01:48:34] Like I can think good I've I wouldn't say it that way. This is, I can trust myself this way and I. Even though I might still feel like an imposter. There's a truth to that brilliance that have, and then the next is heart-based brilliance, which is coming down out of our head, seeing the brilliance in everyone, rather than seeing the stupidity from head.

[01:48:55] We see a lot of stupidity in the world. And 

[01:48:59] CK: [01:48:59] passion and empathy. 

[01:49:01] Adam: [01:49:01] Yes. And trusting. My brilliance does not have to be something thought or intellectualized, so like I can start to trust that just by virtue of the way I naturally will show up in the world that will be imbued with brilliance. And then the third stage is the spiritual or spirit based brilliant switches.

[01:49:20] Kind of learning to trust and surrender into the brilliance inherent in existence as a whole in the universe and trusting like one I can cope and be with and, thrive in whatever shows up in front of me. And that there is a brilliant far beyond what I can conceive. And part of my role on this planet on this existence is to trust that and to let that carry us where it does.

[01:49:45] CK: [01:49:45] Yeah. Yeah. So like the collective consciousness, the idea of destiny 

[01:49:52] Adam: [01:49:52] that's right. Yeah. Although without too much of a plan, because sometimes with destiny, we're like, there's no free will. And I don't know that we start to get a little esoteric here, but 

[01:50:03] CK: [01:50:03] Yeah, actually it was having a conversation within Europe with with a theoretical physicist.

[01:50:10] And we really gone deep into the whole idea of freewill. 

[01:50:15] Adam: [01:50:15] I love that stuff. 

[01:50:17] CK: [01:50:17] Yeah. I don't know if I can do it justice to recap what we had talked about, but if you really think about how our brain is wired together, it's a 

[01:50:29] Adam: [01:50:29] glob of 

[01:50:30] CK: [01:50:30] neurons. And to say that I have singular idea of who I am. I think that just looking at it mathematically.

[01:50:41] You have a very complex, chaotic system to have a singular output. It's crazy. It's just not the way it works. You're going to have tons of different conflicting desires and how you come to that conclusion of saying something or doing something it's a it's, a mathematically, it's like a. I don't know how to articulate a well simply said the clusterfuck it's even with the computer, you can't predict this input goes in.

[01:51:15] Does input comes out. This output comes out. It's just not how 

[01:51:19] Adam: [01:51:19] it works. 

[01:51:20] CK: [01:51:20] So anyways,

[01:51:25] bye. You want to say something about this whole idea of free will and determinism? Sure. 

[01:51:31] Adam: [01:51:31] What, comes forward for me there is it's a great, like just the way you were describing it even is a great how would I put this? It really showcases the limitations of head-based brilliance to me, which is I can think about all that and try to work it out.

[01:51:50] And I believe that there will forever be something outside of our grasp. Einstein said that we get to see just this thin layer of the truth of reality and anyone who doesn't. When thinking about that, feel some degree of spirituality is really like just bereft of something that's available. And so for me, there's I love thinking about this stuff, cause I'm a nerd and I love thinking about all this stuff.

[01:52:18] And then there's a part of me that I've learned these days to delight and wonder in the fact that some of our existence will forever be unknowable. And it's cool that we can, prove that part we know from Heisenberg's uncertainty or whoever was that made the uncertainty principle like yeah, that's right.

[01:52:35] Yeah. There's always something that's outside of our, ability to capture this stuff. So I find these days it's more fun just to be in the wonder of it. 

[01:52:44] CK: [01:52:44] And part of the work that I do is do really empower people. If they just think about. Our brain us layer onions, right? The deepest part of who we are as, the deep truth the, super-consciousness then you have different constructs that you have inherited from someone or someone has told you something, or you taught yourself just layers and layers that stops you from really believe in tap into that inner.

[01:53:10] That deep insight that's capable, that you can really bring forward to the world. So a lot of what I do is peel away those limiting beliefs, the the inherited constructs so that you can tap into that and be free and truly express that deep, creative desire to bring forth and actualize. The world.

[01:53:30] Cause in my mind, that's what makes life worth living. Yes. Know, it's not about falling some conventional path and just Oh, when I get there, I'll be happier. And then the reality is you're not, there's an illusion. I'll be happier when I XYZ is just. Anyway, without pontificating too much. This is there's an interview about you.

[01:53:53] Adam: [01:53:53] What the, other example of what you just described is where people are frantically trying to get everything done in order to experience peace. If I just get everything done, and if you look below the doing, because they're doing makes sense. If I just clear all this stuff off, then I'll feel peaceful.

[01:54:08] But it's if we look at it from being it's like you are being frantic and hoping that will result in you being. Piece that doesn't make a lot of sense. 

[01:54:20] CK: [01:54:20] I know. So great segue to men's work. I know that you studied David data's work blue truth specifically. 

[01:54:29] Adam: [01:54:29] Yup. 

[01:54:29] CK: [01:54:29] And in the Bluetooth, he had mentioned somewhere.

[01:54:32] I can't remember exactly the passage, but essentially the masculine spirit desire, ultimately completion. 

[01:54:41] Adam: [01:54:41] What was that word? 

[01:54:43] CK: [01:54:43] Completion 

[01:54:43] slash desk, right? Yeah. So we think that life is better. The masculine spirit that is when things are done, but that's, a, ever present desire.

[01:54:59] It'll never get done until we're ultimately done like death. So curious to know, so that's a segue to men's work. Share with us a little bit about your journey to a men's work. Yeah. 

[01:55:14] Adam: [01:55:14] So again I'll, articulate like the masculine or the alpha energy is the void resting consciousness. It's emptiness, and then the feminine or the Omega energy is everything in that void.

[01:55:28] It's the creation, it's the stars being born and the stars being blown apart and all of that. And so most. Individually, everyone has a balance of these energies in them, but most people identify as mask as men have a greater degree of masculine energy. And most people identify as women have a greater degree of female energy, but to be clear, these aren't really gendered their energies.

[01:55:53] Like you could think of them like the poles on a battery, the positive and the negative for the masculine or the feminine or whatever. I grew up more identified with my mum. And so I'm a man with a lot of there's a lot. I have a lot of masculine energy I've later discovered, but I identified with my feminine range.

[01:56:14] And and so for most of my life, I was very sensitive and I still am, but like very sensitive, very. I'm concerned about not being a shithead. And when I say shithead, I mean like the man who fucks the woman and then leaders or the guy that just blatantly checks out a woman. And so I learned to do all of this stuff to never offend and be the right man based on the standards of Neo femininity.

[01:56:48] I don't even know if Neo femininity as a thing, but whatever, don't be that Dick head guy be this and. What I started to notice. One, there was like a real breakdown in my marriage. When I talked about no intimacy, I was not exaggerating. There was no intimacy, there was no sex, but there's also no emotional intimacy.

[01:57:07] We were, we resonated like twin flames. So we had a lot of resonance, but no polarity is like the spark created between the two poles of the battery. If you had a plus and a plus battery, nothing would happen. There would be no circuit they got created. And so that was how my relationship was, my wife operated.

[01:57:29] She'd learned to masculinize herself as many women do in the current. Kind of climate or business world. And I'd learned to feminize myself and we were both hanging out in middle. And so I was drawn to men's work cause I could feel that there was something available. And I knew that I had some kind of disempowered relationship with the masculine, but I didn't really know what it was.

[01:57:51] I can share more, but I want to see if there's anything you want to direct me towards. Now that I've said that bit. 

[01:57:57] CK: [01:57:57] Yeah. So you work with your wife, right? Okay, good. So maybe talk a little bit more into the evolution of how you create a new polarity in your relationships and also how you beautifully and, dangerously work in a business relationship with your wife.

[01:58:19] So I'm curious about how you make that work. 

[01:58:22] Adam: [01:58:22] Yeah. It has been an adventure with my wife. I'm really delighted to share. We've really turned a corner in the last year, but we've been working on this piece, this intimacy for a decade probably. And Hey, that's the nature of being a leader and a coach is that we're continually working progress and progressing in our work.

[01:58:43] And originally I started doing men's work and she thought it was stupid, which is totally not any of a criticism for her when your man comes home and starts like doing breathing exercises, like ego Eradicator or Wim, Hof breathing or something. And yeah. I can imagine that would occur as quite stupid.

[01:59:06] And so initially she had a lot of resistance to it and I even brought her to a co-ed Workshop led by my teacher at the time who's named John Wineland. Who's a brilliant, man. And she resisted it. She really was like unwilling to play with the feminine energy in part, because she had a disempowered relationship to the feminine, just like I had a disempowered relationship to the masculine.

[01:59:32] And as we've worked at this, we've made steps together. Initially her resistance, I was like, it's stupid that you're resistant. You should do this. And then of course, what do you do when someone shows up that way with you? You. Tightened down further on your own resistance, because you're right about it because they're making you wrong about it.

[01:59:50] And and so we've just learned to get better at being with each other, through that I've learned to let off my attachment and she's learned to surrender to me a little bit more, be more open to what I'm bringing for us. And To the point where, we are today is we've been currently working with another teacher and he does what he calls to body practice.

[02:00:13] So you can do all this work by yourself. But to the point we were initially talking about, when you bring another person into it, now there's energy in the space. And every morning we sit for 20 minutes and do she could think of it as Maybe tantric practice or like the, I would call it. My teacher calls it the yoga of intimacy.

[02:00:34] So using just our breath, we're creating polarity with one another, which is really profound because suddenly we have all this fucking baggage around sex. And so that, and that's where we look to try to create intimacy, but it's like, trying to. Work with centimeters using two tanks. It's just it's hard to get to the nuance.

[02:00:56] And so with this kind of practice using our breath, it's amazing what can get created when we, when you get to that level of being connected with each other. So that's where we're at today. Yeah, go ahead. 

[02:01:08] CK: [02:01:08] What does it look like? I don't understand. The yoga of intimacy, but working with your breath do you mean like synchronized breathing?

[02:01:16] Do you mean. Breathing other like keys, Salem and more about that. 

[02:01:21] Adam: [02:01:21] Yeah. So here's one practice that we do every morning, which is or one of the practices we'll sit across from each other. And the first, the bedrock of polarity is presence. If you're not present with each other, there cannot be polarity.

[02:01:36] So we start there. We set a timer of 10 minutes and at first Bay, my wife is working with me and first she's. Giving me feedback on how present I am. How much does she feel me present with her? And she might be like, what I would need is to fill your breath more. What I would need is to see you stop fidgeting.

[02:01:55] And then once she feels me present, then she's shifting into giving me feedback. To have me embodying more of the masculine energy and there's three pieces of feedback. She gives me to support that one is she wants more breadth from me. That's the, heart of masculine energy is the depth of our breath.

[02:02:15] Too. She can say, I want more of your heart. She wants more of my warmth and three, she can say she wants more of my balls. More of the part of me that would kill for her, the ferocity that is part of the masculine energy. The part of me that I killed because I identified all with my mom and not with my dad.

[02:02:33] And then once that's done, so she's making me trustable as a man, meaning she feels she could show me anything and I could receive it. Open-hearted but without being blown out by it, and then we switch and now I give her feedback for 10 minutes first to bring her to presence. So if she's not there and then I'm asking for, or light more dark, so exploring the range of the feminine expression or more expression.

[02:03:01] And I'll just put a little tale note on this, where most men shut their women down is where I want all of her fullness, but then if she brings us her darkness, we're like, Whoa, no, don't show her. Or we try to fix them. And it's Oh, we can't see that. We're, masculinizing them. We're pushing them towards this stoic.

[02:03:24] Don't bring your darkness. And so it's a beautiful practice to have her sometimes she's shoving me. In that container of practice. And so that's an example of how we practice 

[02:03:38] CK: [02:03:38] so breadth. And then what's the middle one before heart 

[02:03:43] Adam: [02:03:43] more heart, which is always the one she wants more of from me.

[02:03:48] CK: [02:03:48] And, not to geek out on the details, but how do you, bring more of your breath? Cause you had said breath is the access to our masculinity. So how do you bring more of that as it is? It literally breathe deeper. Like when Hoff . Or is it metaphoric? Can you say a little bit more about that?

[02:04:10] Adam: [02:04:10] Yeah. So one there's my interpretation and then it's partially it, her job to give me the feedback if I'm not getting there. So usually more breaths. She's wanting to feel my breath more deeply, like down into my stomach, down into my balls, like drawing the breath all the way down and in in yoga intimacy, the man is breathing both partners.

[02:04:33] So she's. This starts to get a little metaphoric, but I am breathing so deep. And so my breath is so deep that it's breathing her. She's almost feeling energetically that I'm drawing breath down her lungs and then upper back. Okay. The way that looks in practice is she might say, I need to feel your breath in your stomach more, or I need to feel you breathing out your nostrils less or whatever it happens to be.

[02:04:59] So it's more of something she's feeling. And then she's giving me feedback on that feeling and trying to get more of what she's needing from me to feel like she could share all of herself with me. 

[02:05:10] CK: [02:05:10] Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. So I'll want to underline this for whoever's watching. This is a practice of ways of being of relating to each other.

[02:05:21] Yes know, whatever the containers, whatever the narrative historical narratives may be, you may or may not believe it, which is totally okay. But nonetheless, it's a practice you're spending a time. You're giving each other feedback, to me that's ultimately super, valuable. There 

[02:05:40] Adam: [02:05:40] were totally, yeah.

[02:05:43] CK: [02:05:43] Anything else you wanted to say about a men's war? There's definitely a lot, but at the same time, also looking at our time together as well. So yeah. 

[02:05:53] Adam: [02:05:53] I don't want to speak to what you said about working together with my partner. Can I go down that path? Yes. 

[02:05:58] CK: [02:05:58] Yes. I'm curious. Yeah. 

[02:06:00] Adam: [02:06:00] So first my wife and I have separate practices, and then we collaborate on some stuff.

[02:06:05] So we're not always working with the same people. Her people are somewhat different than mine because she's a different human being than I am. But what I will say is being married to another coach is like the best and the worst. It's the best, because. If you're really committed to this path, your commitment is always to be able to be responsible for more of your experience in life.

[02:06:30] Meaning if I do something and it has a particular impact, I can own Oh, how can I see that? I created that. And the reason I would do that, because it gives me access to power and be like, Oh, I caused that. So I can do this differently. And now I can create a different impact. I have more power. So it's beautiful to not.

[02:06:48] When a coach is married to someone, not in the coaching profession, they're doing all this work to be responsible and the other person might not be. And I would imagine that would be challenging. Plus we're total nerds for this work. So we're always talking about this stuff and like playing with it and we just can't get enough of creating stuff in this field.

[02:07:06] It's impossible in the worst because you cannot coach your partner, but you think you can, hold on. I got a cough here. So I can see all of the stuff that my wife is doing. The trouble is I'm in it with her. I'm playing out the reciprocal of her pattern. And so I'm always like, Oh, this is just your blah, blah, blah.

[02:07:30] And you need to blow and then it never works. And so in that way it can be so infuriating because I have to remind myself, Oh yeah, stop doing that. And consequently, we. It's really important for us. I think both because of the work we're doing and because of how slippery that can be, that we have a lot of people that support us.

[02:07:49] So we have a teacher we work with for yoga intimacy. We have a counselor that we see once a month. We just have a lot of structures to support us, deepening our relationship, because that's what we're committed to. Yeah. 

[02:08:00] CK: [02:08:00] I love that you consistently pudding. Championship teams who support you individually to support your relationship with your wife slash as well as the business side of things?

[02:08:13] Yeah. W one of the slippery slope that I noticed is people with coaching skills think that they can be a coach to their partner. 

[02:08:24] Adam: [02:08:24] Yes. 

[02:08:25] CK: [02:08:25] Oftentimes unsolicited. And I personally am guilty of that and have been guilty of that. And every time I did it, just never, ever works. 

[02:08:36] Adam: [02:08:36] I think 

[02:08:37] CK: [02:08:37] she is going to find this so insightful and so change or a waste.

[02:08:44] Nope. She signed her partner. I am UV her partner and a partner, the role of a partner in my mind happy to please chime in is to be accepting yeah. Supportive and provide a space to be everything that she is to really believe in her highest self, as well as Cobb, that container for the, for her biggest shadows to, yes.

[02:09:09] Job is not to. Be incisive and be the coach and so forth. I'm curious to know, like, how do you navigate that? Cause as a partner, you're not a coach, but at the same time, you're also not gonna roll over it. Let her ego to do whatever. So how do you find that line to be in an empowering partner?

[02:09:31] Yeah. 

[02:09:32] Adam: [02:09:32] I'll give you an example from today. Yeah, over the last couple of days, she's just been in a bit of a funk as we all get into from time to time. And her flavor of funk is she gets in a bit of a pit where her story about herself is very negative. My flavor of funk would be like, I get very impatient and I got to get everything done.

[02:09:56] Fuck off, get out of my way. So that's what mine tends to look more like hers is more I suck nothing. I do matters. You're doing awesome stuff. Everyone loves you like that kind of thing. And what's interesting about the dynamic there is. She simultaneously wants me to prove to herself proof to her why that's not true, but is also unwilling for it to be untrue.

[02:10:20] So I can be like do you want to look at your views on Facebook just to prove that it's more than three people that like you, and we could do that. It wouldn't make any difference because again, she's in the cycle. And there's a part of me that wants to be like, you're amazing. Stop this. And shout at her.

[02:10:37] That's not going to work. Of course. There's another part of me that wants to be like shrug my shoulders and be, fuck you. Then if you're not going to let me if you're going to argue with me about this fuck off, I'm going to go do my stuff. Tell me when you're better. And that's, what we would typically refer to as like a bit of toxic masculine or first stage of practice.

[02:10:57] It's I'm going to go to my solace. You need to work this out, blah, blah, blah. And the place that I'm practicing and where I went today was just to really look, I don't need it to be any different and I love you. And if you want I will, tell you to the cows, come home, how amazing you are and I'll point to all this stuff.

[02:11:16] But I also noticed that it's not making any difference and you keep arguing with me. And so I just want to check in and see do you, need me to do that? What's going to serve you best. And sometimes that makes a difference and she's no, I know I'm just doing this. It's just, I'm sad.

[02:11:33] And then we can get below it and connect. And other times I ask that question and she just goes, no one likes you on Facebook. And I'm like, Oh, we're right back at it. Okay. And I just have to love her through that. I do my best art. I love her and I make mistakes and I forgive myself as best I can when I make mistakes.

[02:11:52] CK: [02:11:52] Yeah. What a blessing, what a roller coaster ride. Yeah Rapid. Let's see. Do you mind if we go through some rapid fire question and then we'll complete it all, maybe you'll do it another time. Okay, great. What's one of the most worthwhile investment you've ever made. 

[02:12:14] Adam: [02:12:14] The coach training program I took that was a 20 K USD investment when I was a hundred thousand dollars into debt and had no money to my name.

[02:12:26] CK: [02:12:26] Wow. You open a loop. I have to follow up with that. Like, how did you what's the, mindset around it and how did it work out for you? 

[02:12:36] Adam: [02:12:36] Yeah, it was terrifying. Again, the whole world that I'd created around me, it was like, don't do this law is the path. And yet I felt on some visceral level, like below my intellect, was like, this is not right.

[02:12:49] Viscerally. I had met this person who was one of the leaders of that program at the time. And everything about her was like, Different from the rest of the world. And, I just kept getting into conversation with her and I'd be like, look, the coaching profession seems fucked up and people seem really wacky and, I'm not inspired by them.

[02:13:07] And I'm worried that this money I'm going to spend is like throwing good money after bad. And she didn't try to convince me otherwise. In fact, she agreed with a lot of what I said and would just hear me and be like, I really get it. And it makes sense. And here's why this might be different. Do you want to have a conversation around that?

[02:13:24] And so it took a lot of conversation, but eventually she supported me to let my heart choose instead of my head, protecting me from my fear. And that was the once I did that, my life really hit a right angle in terms of the trajectory, everything shifted on the other side of that. 

[02:13:41] CK: [02:13:41] Thank you for that.

[02:13:42] I appreciate it. I'm sure it wasn't all I sign up and the day after. 

[02:13:47] Adam: [02:13:47] Oh, no, there's a lot of ups and downs. Yeah. Yeah. 

[02:13:52] CK: [02:13:52] Okay, good. Before we unpack that, the next time we talk to each other, the next question is what's the most valuable, but counterintuitive lesson. You want your younger self to learn?

[02:14:07] Adam: [02:14:07] The answer lies in relationship. Not in the right answer 

[02:14:14] CK: [02:14:14] to self to others. 

[02:14:16] Adam: [02:14:16] Yeah. Yes, actually to both, but like in relationship with other people. Yeah. Rather than, Oh, here's the right answer. No, that's not the right answer. It lies somewhere in being in relationship with someone. 

[02:14:31] CK: [02:14:31] You open another little bit, I hate to not have to 

[02:14:34] Adam: [02:14:34] keep, 

[02:14:36] CK: [02:14:36] but about how do you really cultivate relationship?

[02:14:40] So you had mentioned much, earlier that just be interested and curious and open to everyone, versus trying to say, quote, unquote, finding the right people to talk to. Yeah, beyond that as a way to cultivate relationship with other human beings. 

[02:14:56] Adam: [02:14:56] The, biggest thing that gets in the way of me being in, first of all, like I think for most of us relationships and Nate, and then we learned to put things in the way of it, rather than like, how do I learn how to be in relationship?

[02:15:07] It's what do I have to unlearn? So the main thing I put in the way of relationship is what I'm right about. And I'm right about a lot. I'm smart dude. And I love being right, which is part of what drew me into law. And what will happen is someone will say something and I'm like, they're wrong. And then I'm either, then I have two choices, hold in that they're wrong, but try to keep talking to them.

[02:15:29] And that energy comes across anyhow or just outright be like, you're wrong. Here's why airtight case. And both of those. The person's choice on the other side of that is okay. I can either feel like I'm in the energy of being wrong and then stay in relationship with Adam, but that's not very fun or I can just leave cause it's a bummer or now, and then I'm also right.

[02:15:51] And then it feels good because I get to be right with Adam. And so often what there is for me to do is it'll sound a little simplistic, but W what if you're not right at them? What if you sat down? What if I sit down everything I'm convinced I know is true. And I just put myself in this person's shoes and really got how the world occurs to them and how in their world, what they're saying makes complete sense.

[02:16:17] It's not Oh, it makes sense. Cause they're dumb. Which would be how I used to hold it. It's like, how does this actually make complete and utter sense? And from there now I'm over there with them and we can actually start to do something different. So that's, often the best way for me to find my way back in a relationship.

[02:16:35] CK: [02:16:35] Yeah. That's a great. Tactic or mindset to take on, especially now a us presidential election in 2020s. 

[02:16:49] Adam: [02:16:49] True. That, 

[02:16:50] CK: [02:16:50] yeah, for sure. What's a purchase of a hundred dollars less than most positively impacted your life in the last six months. Huh? A 

[02:17:00] Adam: [02:17:00] hundred dollars or less. Okay this'll be like silly. I love video games.

[02:17:06] I have a friend of mine recently got me into a first person shooter game called apex legends. And I have a little control. I have a controller for my PlayStation and I bought, I delighted that I'm sharing this. This is the thing I bought this little thing that sits on it. It plugs on top of the right joystick, which is the juristic.

[02:17:26] I used to move around my vision. And by having that joystick twice as high. I have way more position with how I move my thumb stick. So in the last six months, that's made a huge difference. 

[02:17:39] CK: [02:17:39] Nobody's ever shared that before.

[02:17:44] For anyone who's interested in men's work, plant medicine. Wisdom teaching really gain access from the head to the heart to spirit. 

[02:17:58] Adam: [02:17:58] Are there 

[02:17:59] CK: [02:17:59] some books that you can recommend for them to learn this new way of thinking about it? 

[02:18:08] Adam: [02:18:08] Yes. Yep. The first I'll recommend a few books. The first two are.

[02:18:17] They're not an analytical book. They're they're both stories that speak to a way of living your life. That's different from the head-based way of living your life. So the first book is my all-time favorite book. It's called illusions by Richard Bach, B a C H amazing book, just so beautiful, really profound.

[02:18:40] I read it usually once a year and the other one is called way of the peaceful warrior by Dan Millman. Which was made into a movie and is really another beautiful book. And both of those books have a lot of they're so rich with learning without giving it to you as an analytical thing you got to put in your head.

[02:18:59] So I love those two. And then I'll give one more. Will I give one more? Let me just look back here. I think those are the two that I would really give, Oh, actually I was wrong. I lied. The other one I would give is for people that want something more practical is called getting real by Susan Campbell, C a M P B E L L.

[02:19:21] That book's amazing. And it, what I love about it is it gives some head-based ways to get into your heart. You don't have to be like, Oh, get in my heart. How the fuck do I do that? It actually walks you through it, which is quite beautiful. 

[02:19:37] CK: [02:19:37] I don't want to take a few minutes to really acknowledge you for a number of things.

[02:19:44] One you share really, truly who you are and your stories, and know that at some point it felt a little bit uncomfortable and really just getting real about the things that you struggle with or you're currently struggling with. And yet you did it courageously I'd really, appreciate just how you show up being present.

[02:20:05] In grounded, meaning embodiment of what's it like to be free from the illusions of the ego and really step into this full self expression of brilliance in the body. Sorry, in the head in the heart and spirit. Thank you so much for just sharing and showing up so beautifully on this interview. Thank 

[02:20:28] Adam: [02:20:28] you CK.

[02:20:29] This has been such a treat and it's hard to believe it's been two hours and change. It's just flown by.


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