Jose Caballer is a creative entrepreneur, designer, facilitator, meditation enthusiast. Jose founded The Groop a digital agency and there he got his “Street MBA” and got to work with diverse creative clients such as Al Gore, Jamie Oliver,...
Jose Caballer is a creative entrepreneur, designer, facilitator, meditation enthusiast. Jose founded The Groop a digital agency and there he got his “Street MBA” and got to work with diverse creative clients such as Al Gore, Jamie Oliver, Thomas Keller, Alice Waters, corporate clients like Disney and Nike and over 30 startups including MySpace and One Drop. Today he combines his 20 years of design and business experience with his passion for teaching and trains thousands of creative professionals on webinars and in workshops worldwide.
We talked about life, career, and startup with Jose’s unique perspective of design principles, product strategies, and spirituality.
tell us a little bit about your journey of reinventing yourself over and over again.
I think we had mentioned as concept, you're reinventing yourself every day, right? When you wake up with the intentions that you have for the day, with the things that happened that day, all of those things form your life, right?
So, so this idea of reinvention in our society is a taboo that you need to stick to one thing, but data shows that the average career someone has in the West is seven. On the U S so for me, like when I decided to go from being a designer to be an agency owner, that was what I thought it was the next step.
once I grew the agency, my assumption is that, there's just success or something that you get to.
And when I realized that it's, you have to do it again and again, and again. And if I had to choose to do it again, what would I do differently?
so that's when I started shifting away from the agency model and started teaching online. Because I knew education was something that was a big thing. and I also intuitively felt underneath it, all that there was a bigger purpose attached to it. That was part of my own narrative and my own ancestry.
I didn't know what that was yet, but I reinvented myself over and over again. That was six, seven years ago when I was 39.
so the, the suspicion at that point was that there was something bigger and it had nothing to do with what kind of company I was going to have.
So I allowed myself to go into the state of flux for these last six years. That allowed me almost to do continuous reinvention on an ongoing basis, both in the spiritual realm, like yoga and meditation and going to India and exploring plant medicine. Like I went full on into that experiment.
I welcomed it. I pursued it begrudgingly. I invested in it. financially, I really took it. And then at the same time I was starting my own company and, teaching online and it was becoming successful. And it became the school that I started became the future
because the empowerment of our own community of designers in the realm of their businesses, was somehow for me, awesome. And that I was helping people like myself. And then as I did it, I began to notice a trend that a lot of the people that were transitioning from maybe working as a freelancer and wanting to grow an agency had an additional desire or need .
They all shared the same kind of value or values that they didn't want to do it the same way that their parents did it, whether the old system did it.
So as I started to track that in the intentions of the people around me, I realized that that was my own intention also, that I wanted meaning and purpose for my own career and for my own life.
And that my ancestry, of who I was and born to be was part of it. I'm Latin from Latin America. I'm the son of a pastor. I grew up in a very evangelical and religious kind of family. So spirituality and God had always been a big part of my life. Hmm.
And as I explored, like I said, and invested in this other realm of looking at spirituality from both the objective and the subjective, from what a science say, like re reading Robert Lance's book, on a bio centricity is the title of the book. As a neurobiologist, the research he conducted was in where does phenomena happen? to who is reality happening and in his research over and over again, the conclusion at the end was that all reality, subjective to the consciousness experiencing it. He really breaks it down to the molecular science of the phenomenon.
reinvention is a continual process of redesigning and defining prototyping and saying out loud, your reality over and over again.
So for me I'm in a very conscious and present state of knowing that it's not about creating my next big thing. Right. It's really about who am I in that, my own healing, my own, letting go my own completion, my own courage. you become, you become aware and clear that you create everything around you.
A lot of people think that the external is what does it, that that person that's going to give me that deal, or that whatever work that I need to do. All those things are part of it, but ultimately our primary responsibility is to heal ourselves and develop ourselves.
there is a secret to hacking it. I've been hacking it the whole time.
So the number one issue in what people kind of like have to get all these systems in order to try something out.
The systems help quell their lack of belief because it breaks things down, steps. it gives Hey, we're all trying this out. It's an experiment, right? The guru or the person teaching you, the system provides the fundamental faith in it, right? Oh, I bet worked for him. They'll work for me. Here's my testimonials. And then people are willing to try the system, but what's interesting is that it's not actually what it is, right? Whatever the tools are that work.
What works is actually the system. Because all the tools are universal. There's tons of different ways of doing the things that you want to do. different paths, different flavors. the system is really what matters. That it's less about what it is because we have, Oh, don't go to OSHO and do this India thing because that's really woowooo and spiritual, go to landmark and do it in a room with no curtains. it's the same work. It's just in a different cultural context. Right?
So I was agnostic to all of it. So I've experimented and tried all the different systems, how masterminds work, how webinars work, how YouTube videos work and I just get to sense all the mechanics of all of it.
And then whatever ones I want to maintain and continue kind of naturally occur. I pick and choose. I've never really like got, I'm not the guy who went and researched all the online platforms and like did all this stuff. I just go, I need an online platform. Which one do I know? This one? Okay. Move forward.
Like I'm moving at that speed in my choices and my decisions. Okay. Sometimes that's not good because there's stuff that you actually need to slow down for, and that you need to pay attention to some of the basic fundamental stuff like financial systems and controls, et cetera, you should be present to those for the most part, as much as you can earlier than later.
But the reason I'm saying all this: is there a way to hack it?
I'm one that says I'm a serial experimentalist. I'm going to experiment with a few and see which ones like, like, and then continue to experimenting further with those.
And then it's really the system itself, I wanted to learn better yoga, for myself, so that I didn't have to depend on a teacher what I went. So I went and did yoga teacher training. Now I'm like, Oh, I get it. How the system works and why it works.
So in my openness and in my default state of belief and faith that comes from my very Christian fundamentalist upbringing. I already had one of the fundamental keys to the system, which was, you have to believe because if you believe it says it in the Bible and if you believe then it is, and, every philosophy says it.
believe in yourself and believe in the system?
Well, you also know it and get to know and understand that you're not separate from the system.
Self is just this thing that we create it, to be able to objectively drive our meat suit that we're driving around from a consciousness standpoint. It's basically we were issued a unit. anime is the best metaphor for this, like the whole exoskeleton thing they put the pilot into. Right? So we're the pilot and consciousness, right? We're put into this exoskeleton and you're given a designation, male, and then a number or, whatever, a name, and put it into a family. it's just that big robot is the Gundam.
the intention for this whole podcast and that we said at the beginning was who am I? And, I keep on asking that question it just almost strips it all the way down to love. And I know that sounds like such an accelerated pace from what's it. How do you make it work? How do you hack it to believe, to just be loved, right?
it's for the activation of ideas and reality, like imagine if you're three D printing, right? The three D printing mechanic is that you have a resin that until it's activated by laser, it doesn't solidify.
so then basically they put the printer itself digitally, puts a mental image of it and shoots the laser. And it only turns on in the distance of that mental image, but the object isn't actually in front of it, the object is in the computer file and CAD data managing the laser to where to shoot. And then the three D object appears.
so if you think of emotion as that laser. Our ideas are just recipes. They're just words and thoughts. And until the laser of emotion that you believe in it, that's another, your designer believes in it that your program or believes in it, that your investor believes in until you have that laser activated, which is your heart.
A lot of people fake it, but most people really invest in people that really believe it, that are passionate about what they're doing.
Unless you have that laser activated, which is the heart. which is knowing how to love yourself, which is known how to love others, which is know how to listen.
It's being a mature adult. People think of it and try to give it all these spiritual labels . No motherfucker.
It's just being a mature, complete, integrated human being like little old Asian people that are super wise and like, just smile at you and laugh like Yoda. They're just mature like, they've been around a lot. They know nothing matters. They know that they're going to die soon, they're just like, Oh, okay.
cause a lot of people listening to this probably are of a similar mindset. We're infinite spiritual beings living in human life. I want to create the best version of myself to make a difference to create company .
And, and the pitfall of that is existential stress. I'm not doing enough. Nothing's ever good enough.
let me continue to live in the future. And then the cost of that,
that round of financing and regret about the past and the future,
so how do you, have that and not to be so consumed by, but I have not arrived yet. I'm never, ever gonna be good enough comparing to Elon Musk.
Yeah. Yeah. the best place that I draw some knowledge, some wisdom for that is from Osho. At OSHA, you listen to him every day. Like for the 16 days that I was there every night, you dress in white and you watch your shows or she'll speak.
But one of the things he talks about is that you're ordinary.
So like we in the West get fed this thing that you're extra ordinary, here's a grade here's a prize, congratulations you're employee of the month. Like we're always like seeking out to highlight the extraordinary.
but the work really just happens in the everyday. Right. Nobody's given awards for like doing your bed and brushing your teeth.
So, the reason that he talks about that is that even as you build your practice as a teacher and as a, quote unquote guru of some sort, That you have to remember that you're ordinary.
So the same thing happens for like the young startup entrepreneur. And she's like really ambitious and knows that she's infinite and that she can do anything if she wants to manifest it.
But then at the other end that drive. Kind of like consumes you, right. And you don't shut down or you don't realize that you're human, you're ordinary. You're in a mortal body.
Get some rest, get some exercise, eat well, have good relationships. Don't forget about your family. All the things that I didn't do when I was building my company, all I did was build my company. I was focused on, I got up in the morning. I walked out to my office, I came home at seven o'clock. I ate at work. I did everything at work. I didn't really invest in my family.
And that it ultimately creates this horrible existential angst. there's songs written about it, where have the days gone by, this is not my beautiful house. This is not my beautiful millennials are going through that a lot younger now. Because they were going in so hard and so hot and realizing, Oh my God, this is so disappointing when they got into the workplace and then they go do yoga, teacher's training and like relax for a bed. And then they realize, Oh shit, I'm not supposed to be in that old system and now what.
So let me ask you this because there's some people who are listening to this, how did you find the courage to not stick to the least resistant path.
Yeah, I'm going to be really honest in that. I've never really shared this with anybody. and it has both psychological and spiritual connotations to it.
my therapist in New York kind of told me that for people that lose a parent early on, they don't believe that they themselves are going to last that long.
So I lost my mom when I was 12. And, So in my little brain, I was in this mad dash for cash because I knew that I wouldn't live longer than 33.
when I was towards the end of my thirties, I was like, wait a minute, shit, I'm still here.
What's going on? So that mortality in that, like, Trauma-based programming that I had, like this is it mother fuckers. We gotta do something about something, right. So I always lived in this, like whatever's next and whatever seems big. So I ended up in the.com boom, in New York city. And I got to see the birth of like an era from the inside.
then when I started my own agency, like early in the two thousands, it was, again in the precursor of the social era, like social media, which started to kind of pop in 2004 around there 2005, 2007, when Facebook finally went, full on for everyone.
So there was this sense of the impetus of, of history and the presence of what was coming.
And part of it was reading books, like, a whole new mind where right. Brainers will in the future. And, Daniel pink talks about the role that designers are gonna play in the future. And I'm like, Oh my God. Who's going to prepare these people. And, so I said, let me start a company that prepares those people. when he signed it for me, I told him that I had started my previous business from his previous book, free agent nation. I got that idea from his book, which said everybody was going to be freelancing and go, well, if you're all freelance, why don't we all work together on projects? And I used that as the model for the group to start it. You see what I'm saying? I'm extracting from some writer, Daniel pink, an insight that he has on what the future is going to be like.
And I start prototyping my ideas with those insights and that produces innovation and the group really grew and thrived from that.
So I'm paying attention to. what's happening in the culture. And I'm fusing that with my ideas as I progress forward very actively.
But your point of courage and my story of, my mother's passing and like this Sense of impending doom.
Also, I grew up in a seven day Adventist family. So the second coming it's always coming, be like Jesus has got him back tomorrow. You don't know.
So there's this urgency to do something great with your life to do the work, to grow that there's no choice on us.
So isn't that an issue that I live in a world of courage. I've lived in a world of having no choice. I had to do this. I had to jump to the next thing. I had to create something crazy. I had to take risks,
and. I'll tell you, it isn't that easy to being always in that edge, being always that guy, who does these things, it takes magic.
It's not even the courage man cause the courage I have in spades, what I've had to develop over the last six years is the fortitude, the fucking stomach, the abs, the six pack spiritually speaking, the third chakra, the solar plexus, because if you're gonna live, like I live in this continual state of, More bigger, whatever it is that you want to create and not taking no for an answer from the universe of doing it, you're going to have to build a fortitude.
And part of it is actually the discernment and the wisdom to simply know, How much effort to put in
it's in the doing that you can refine your vision, right? You can't refine your vision arbitrarily in a vacuum. You do it and then you get some feedback internally. You're like, Oh, this is it. This feels good. And external, you also get some feedback as well. Right. So how did you have that level of clarity?
Yeah, that's where the whole conversation about spirituality comes in because the path that you're carving is not yours,
So the clarity you're looking for is for your ego, at least for the self. It's for you, is this right? Is this wrong? So when you ask the question instead, is this my path or is this not my path? that's a different question.
your path is right in front of you. If you turn around, because it's a kind of a reversal of, your family history or of all the things you chose before. So I chose to be a designer, instead of being a pastor, which is what my family wanted me to meet, I chose to live in technology, during the.com boom and afterwards live in the software realm.
So pastor designer, technologists, then I chose to live in the world of teaching, because they didn't know Weinman from them. the.com was my mentor, my hero, and I did the school. So, so my mom was a teacher. My grandmother made her. Her, well, her being got all my, aunts and uncles educated by opening a school.
Yeah, and I actually did some work. I asked them for their life story before they all passed many years ago, like six years ago, when I started doing my journey, one of the first things I did was go back home and spend time with my family and listened to their stories. And I recorded them and I'm like, Oh my God, my grandmother, her heritage is, she was a master teacher and a community builder and church builder.
And I'm like, I'm my grandmother. So when you then look at your path and at your choices, are they mine or are they the choices that my grandparents made?
It's what resonates with you is what resonated you were. You're their child. They brought you up. Their values are in you, their dreams are in you.
as Asians and Latinos, we struggle with this issue because parents want them to be something specific. And it's a projection of who they want it to be, but you end up no matter which way you slice it, being that, and always having that gap. it's like, am I being what my parents wanted me to be? Or am I pursuing who I want to be?
And then if you take a third way and you say, what is my path, based on all of those things, and you look at it neutrally without judging your parents or judging your past, you'll get answers there.
The more judgment and the more issues, you can't close the loops with your parents, of anger or resentment. If you can't close the loop with your past, the heealing is the main vehicle for understanding your own path. Cause all those things that pain you and the things that stop you, the things that take away, the courage are fear and letting go of that is one of the hardest parts because you have to complete with all those people.
And one of those people that you have to complete with this yourself, forgiving yourself for all your mistakes for giving yourself, or, whatever it is, the divorce, the different career than what your parents wanted, being a weirdo, that, that anger and that resentment with whoever, with God, or with your parents or with your friends or with your past, or with yourself stops you from jumping.
Yeah. A lot of people listening to this are interested in high performance. And one of the mental models that I teach them is removing any interference, any kind of judgment trauma and resentment, anger. Anything towards others or towards yourself, ultimately interferes with your present moment right here now.
And yeah. So that's what I want to underline in everything that you said total agreeance there, for sure. And also from what you just shared so far, you can actually look at your history for a very strong signal. Whether it be what you have done yourself professionally and personally, and, or intergenerational what your parents did, what your grandparents did, et cetera. You can actually use them as a very strong signal to think about your own path. Is that accurate?
And I call this tethering and anchoring, like in rock climbing. One of the things that I really recommend because some of the exercises in personal development and coaching and training that you do for this is that you have people tell their story, right?
So you're by every decade, like your twenties, your teens, your twenties, or thirties or forties, just tell your story and how you felt in those times. And if you look at biographies or if you're looking at why people of note, write their own stories is because in the story source, lessons in signals, right.
But doing your own, and then asking your dad and asking your mom and asking your grandma, like I started doing, begins to give you when I call tribal user stories or narratives, because if you look at customer experience, right, and then developing software, we create sets of user stories and subsets of customer types.
So if you do that for yourself, backwards for your life. Basically primary user stories of the users in the system and your family you'll get so many interesting insights about who you are.
It's like, Oh, my uncle is just like me. And he's like this like that. And I'm like, that's where I get that from. And no, it's not, whether you get that from, you just recognize it in yourself by seeing it in others. And the fact that they're your family, it gives you this like, Oh, okay,
cool. Yeah. I bring back to another spiritual principle or saying that people say a lot is.
Every one is either a miirror or a projection. Yeah. So, very similar to that, Hey, I resonate with women. My uncle said, it's not that you inherited it from your uncle rather. It's just some internal resonance.
you were addressing the, how, what I'm addressing is the, what. so Henry ford famously, say, if you ask what people want, they would say, I want faster horses, right. Rather than a new vehicle. So that's a jump from horses to, vehicle. if you just look backwards, you're going to want faster horse
horses and innovate and do a. Quantum leap, jump to the next level, whatever is next for you. how do you identify what's that vision and next step division for you?
For me personally, it's a combination of, of me creating a profile of the people I want to serve in meeting their needs. Right. That's one,
but the other one is of who I am. Like, what's my essence. Like. What am I about? So, because in the intersection between my own needs and who I am, like my business goals and my essence, of what I can create, which would be your positioning, like, what are you good at?
they called this the founder market fit.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. in knowing yourself which is a big one . And then knowing the needs of the people around you. you can really, in that overlap, you'll find what it is that you're supposed to be doing.
Because ultimately your needs are going to be sustainability to get paid and their needs as pertain to who you are in your essence.
in my customer profiles is the people just like me that were designers that's the primary audience that I built. so I know their needs super well cause I was there, I experienced what they experience and that's how I created the preliminary profiles.
But then as they began participating in the process of defining themselves as customers, or as co-creators is what I call them, I get more and more fidelity between exactly what it is that they need and exactly what it is that I need.
It's just like a conversation. How can I support you? And how can I support you? And that takes doing that intentionally. Like what I just described as the core process, right. The process that I developed and that I make a living from . And it's, it's just basic strategic planning tools.
And the fundamental is that. If you define who you are and you define who the people around you are, and you can find something that provides them value, that you can deliver successfully over and over again. Then you're in really good shape . The innovation happens in the no judgment of the model, right?
Because what you want to deliver the wisdom, the insights of transformation that you want to deliver. it's delivering that. So the model will evolve. Things will change. She might not like podcasting. You might not like this. Or like whatever happens, happens as long as you're clear that the value is what matters.
you were speaking about a hacking right process. So what's the hack.
So the three steps are really, really simple.
You have to define whatever it is that you want in your life. And if you don't have a vision for what it is, and I can't even talk to you about it. And people are afraid of it because they think people are gonna judge them. Oh, you can't do that. You're a freaking whatever bartender.
and then you have to mock it up and mocking it up isn't like, you're going to sit there and make models like a designer. Okay. If you're a designer like me, I sketch stuff out. I, I visualize it in a form that I can show to others. And I do a lot of projects like that. Like even my burning man camp, I just mocked it up envisioned form and worked with some architects that we had there and came up with some really beautiful slides and people were like, Whoa, this is cool. Let's do that. It didn't really exist until it had existed. Right. So you have to Mark it up. cities are built with architectural plans, right? all these things are, important and we don't design our own reality because we don't have those tools. Like you might not have been taught how to sketch something out and conceptual form.
and then the final thing is you have to share it. You have to say it to other people and you have to say, here's my plan. Here's what I'm trying to do. What do you think? And people will tell you, Oh, well, or yeah. Oh. Or they help you and they open energy portals forward. So, so if everyone behaved that way, like if we were all entrepreneurs and like, we all had to pitch each other, our 10 slides as to what we wanted to do in our life, things would be amazing.
Like, I wish I could bring that that level of Tool simplicity to the process of business in the entrepreneurial space to everyday people. I've done workshops that bring the tools of user experience and business planning to kids. They love it, cause we're like, Oh my God, this is what I am going to be. Great. Kids get excited about a plan about what they can become.
So step one, have a vision,
step two, mock it up
so in step three is to share with others,
so what do you hope to achieve . Because you're constantly reinventing yourself. I know that you're also using a platform that you have to teach spiritual principles.
I'll make it as succinct as possible in, in looking how to help designers grow as entrepreneurs and as their own business owners, in looking at how to help startup teams work more effectively and, and have more success and then looking at how leadership teams, plan and roll their, their customers or their, their teams into the vision of the company
and all those realms. I learned a lot of tools and mechanics and ways of doing it and understand that. And I could definitely go into the business of like organizational consulting and meaning machine.
I would be very good at that. and that's part of what I am going to do next. But, the one thing that stood out was just the teaching of simple transformational principles, right. I celebrate people's own personal growth than to have to deal with the team and with the other levels.
Right. Instead of focusing on the tactics
yeah. Focus on the individual people and making them powerful and making them equanimous and making them Able to communicate and lead better. that would be a faster way. And that's ultimately what led me to going to New York and to work in a consensus.
And that's where I got a lot of these lessons and ultimately the burning man camp that I started with a few people, it's about the acknowledgment that the real way of getting the individual people to be more powerful and their work is to have them be more powerful in their own selves.
when you introduced me, you ended with is transitioning to being a spiritual teacher.
I wanted to clarify I'm continuing to teach the things that I've been teaching, happens to be some of the ideas and some of the principles that I'm beginning to include and integrate into what I'm teaching have parallels inside spiritual practice, but I don't have an intention to, and that goes with the intention for the podcast.
Like who am I. I think my intention is to continue as a creator of a things, whatever those things might be, but that the method in which you do, it comes from a philosophical and from a spiritual kind of sentence or aspect to it and where it intersects with people's purpose and entrepreneurship and creativity is that really sweet spot that you can still now communicate, about the more subjective and the more Spiritual aspects of practice
there are a lot of people that are more conscious that are doing business today. And some people call it conscious capitalism. Some people call it something else. Right. There's all these different labels that are emerging. And you've been part of those communities, under less of a labeling way more in the values of the CEOs that I'm seeing emerge. even, companies that are ran or run by older CEOs founders, but then also have, the conscious aspect of whatever that is that they're doing. And it's really beautiful to see. So there is a space for spirituality and business. There's a space for being able to align your purpose and bring humanity to business.
So you can really begin stopping using the S word, and really talking to the public and to corporate entities with just simply those ideas. purpose and human aspects. When you add human to it, it's the thing that's missing. It's the spiritual part, right?
Cause we kind of moved away from how tribes used to inscribe or encode their spiritual practices into their people, through rituals and celebrations, et cetera, because we live in a secular kind of society.
the clarification was that I am continuing to do what I'm doing and, but now merging all those things, bring new tools.
so. It's not because I want to avoid the label of spiritual teacher or of design teacher . No, it's what people say: Oh, I love your stuff because you also bring a spiritual dimension to it.
how do you sift through the noise versus the signal?
yeah. This is a big problem that I see kids having is that they love consuming and then consuming becomes the thing.
I don't listen to any podcasts. And, right now I'm listening to one podcast Russell brand because I love what he's bringing into the mix. And I like him. He resonates a lot with me. Yeah. Like I love, I love him.
but I know the books that I have around me are just the books that I'm interested in. my only bad habit is that I go on CNN just to see if the world has ended yet.
The point about it is that I I'm kinda like on a Tim Ferriss style media diet most of the time.
I try not to Research unless I'm specifically looking for something. So Google is my best friend . I don't really get caught up in the latest, greatest shit.
You recommend that for others?
It's up to you.
Unless somebody really recommends it and tells me, you should totally watch this. I'll say that this will resonate. I won't do it.
it's easy to get distracted. Like I'm super add and distractable so I don't want to make it even worse.
And so what I distract myself most with is writing down my own thoughts and it starts looking like you live like a madman, but. What's better to be distracted by then your plans and the things that you're creating. So I'm present to them every day. And then when I see them, it gets me back to thinking.
So it's like keeping me in, the realm in the space of what I want to create. It's the highest thing.
if there's an area of a lot that doesn't work, if there's a block that you experienced, if there are things that you have negative charges about. If you can't take actions about your hopes and dreams, and if there's anything that's stopping you. Great. And to me, that's a boundary condition. Yeah. And then what kind of experiments can you overtake to overcome that boundary?
one of my fundamentals for my experiments in my life is to look at areas that I'm avoiding and going in that direction and taking the next steps and the actions as painful as it is sometimes.
The initial part is not necessarily as pleasant as you're hoping, but there's a lot to be said for people really seek to be in hedonistic pleasure all the time. And let me sit on my couch and watch Netflix and turn on their AC and have some popcorn. And, we look for everything in our lives to be so comfortable.
So then we expect that in everything right in life. but sometimes is understanding that part of it is pain. Right. I had a really great conversation with Tony Wong, my friend about this, where he's like, yeah, it's just learning that pain is part of the whole and you're like, damn . So for me, when I saw things that I was avoiding or like, Oh, I got that tingly feeling of like, nervousness about dealing with it. I would jump,
you would then jump. Yeah. So that was a signal to you that you should do it because you have hesitation and fear and pain,
very counterintuitive because people say, well, isn't that something that you should trust? That means that there's danger.
Most things in our lives aren't like you're in front of a cliff and you have to use that logic cause that reflex is built for our reptilian brain for survival of actual death.
But having a conversation with your spouse about how you're feeling and avoiding it, it's not cliff, it's just emotions, right? You're not going to die. If you have the conversation, it will be painful emotionally, but there's no physical harm.
So. That's the point, what are the things that you're avoiding and the truths that you're not dealing with? and they come out eventually and that's part of maturity and getting older. It's like being super brutally honest with yourself and your friends doing that with you too.
I can talk for hours about ayahuasca and about psilocybin and about all the different aspects of that.
well, let's talk about that.
the first time I did it, I kind of float into it. It was almost like this is what's next. And my first experience was a simple one. It was kind of like a call to loyalty, to Gaia, to the plants, it's like, are you with us?
and I'm like, Oh mother effort, man. and I said, yes, and the next one was a bigger vision and after that got really personal and it became about healing and different aspects of my past and unlocking some of those feelings that might've not been there before. And that kind of accelerates into new work, that you have to do potentially, so you can get stuck in that loop. So I haven't been in it for awhile,
I have friends who've done it 35 times. So it's this continual loop for looking for any healing or unlocking, or like your becomes a thing that you're looking for a thing. So for me, just the natural flow of it, where it's gotten to me to now I just pause and I'm looking at it as okay. I'm spending the time integrating.
Yeah. cause the last few ceremonies were really, really intense in terms of, the work and it kinda matched the intensity of the life. that I would be in. Right. So what I mean by that is that as you grow, you're able to then live in. It's slightly different reality, right?
Things are happening faster, more instant flow opportunities are changing very quickly.
You're able to see the matrix.
You're able to see the metrics part and most people's issues are that there's so much energy from all those open loops that it overwhelms you
so in order to be a pirate, as I say, you need to be able to sail the seas with no fear of death. So you have to develop this is cool, calm, collective, not freaking out, because you're not thinking or mindful of what it's happening. You are super aware of what's happening. And where it is is that you stay in the present, you can plan and visualize, this becomes a continual routine.
the best metaphor I can describe is like the whole teaching Kung Fu thing. Like when you just practice over and over again, the moves, right. And then one day, and then location comes up and your teacher goes to China and you're just doing all the moves, right.
Yeah. So as you grow. And as you master the different practices, whether they be through physical things like meditate, yoga or exercise, mental things like meditation and journaling, Once you've mastered the practices of masters. And that's why there's so many people online, teaching all these things.
Here's my journal technique. Here's my mastermind. Here's this because basically it's what I call a, omni-directional master school and that's what's needed right now. And one of the things people usually ask when they take the step you're taking , becoming a master of masters, Is that they question like, why me?
Like what's this? And no, no, no. Asshole has nothing to do with you as nothing to do with you with CK, men or women will say no yet, right?
The reason why this is such an emerging thing, it's because of the system changing that The only way to turn this boat around is when people realize that they're creators of their own reality, that they're the ones who are gonna make the future.
and that message is difficult to tell to somebody who still in an employee mindset, or it's still in a, I get my money from the government or is still in the centralized mindset because we removed the dignity from being your own master, through all our sovereignty, we removed that dignity so hard.
And here's the thing that people don't understand that, American Midwestern values of like, piety and dociliity and working in the factory were embedded into our education and Intuit religion by the industrialists themselves, Henry Ford was an amazing proponent of, religion and like education, people don't understand that they've been conditioned to be lambs.
And what you're teaching and what you're exploring and what you're realizing a CK Lynn, is it Holy shit? No, I'm actually a creator. I can actually make my own reality and I can be powerful in that and whatever the incarnation of that is for you, in terms of flavors, in terms of Style.
That's awesome because it's you, and then the other people that are on this podcast, listening to it and are like, Oh, I've been wanting to do that. And it will be an odd part of that is that the big shift is that it's not about doing it because you want to become an expert or you want to become a guru or you want to become, a master or whatever teacher.
It's the realization that your own transformation, your own experimentation on yourself to reach this mastery is the content, right? Because if you transform, you can do anything.
Right. So if you're working on it and you're sharing it with other people, like you are CK Lin and I am, then we're not trying to like, build a business. And I living from podcasting and selling courses and selling kits or whatever, online we're simply masters broadcasting our journey. And others resonate with it.
Great. And if others are willing to give you some money so that you can continue the journey and they can get the gifts. Great. Yeah. It's simply an exchange of value is simply an exchange of love.
if you let go of the business model and the mechanics of it, and you have to know them and understand them and know how to put them in place, but you have to know that it's all about sharing yourself and your own transformation. Genuinely like really just baring your soul.
That's the hardest part. You have to be naked in front of people all the time. Yeah.
I mean, speaking from my personal experience, the Facebook live, hasn't been easy. There's a lot of internal resistance. I don't know why should we say, or, if I should hold some, some part of me cause well, here's the intention is to add value to whoever's watching.
No, no, no, no. I mean, okay then that sounds horrible. No, no. I think that the value is in you revealing yourself to the people.
weldability is about being as present as possible to what is, at that point in that moment.
so when you watch me do my Facebook lives on Sunday, I'll anchor into the day, say 6:00 PM, Sunday afternoon. So even in the narrative, I'm actually dropping it into my day. I hope you're having a good weekend. I just finished watching, like some episodes of Merlin, like suddenly it. It's in my day now, it's actually here in my space and it's in my space. Right. And it's really, what's behind me. and then I kind of. Talk about the topic and where I got the topic from. and then I break it down in three index cards on, in terms of like the three anchors at the story. that one was from last week, new vision defined, mock it up, say it. And I don't write what I'm going to say about those topics, but I think about them and then behind the curtain.
One card for each topic. I write three bullet points about what is it that I want to say with define? So when I flow through it, I'm just flowing through the mechanics of showing the cards and then behind it, it gives me the three topics. So it looks and feels like. I am just in the moment talking about the subject matter.
And I am, I have my anchors throughout it. It's just been held through the whole sequence that I can wrap it up and end it. And then people are like, wow, that's exactly what I needed to hear today. Boom, boom, boom. and and it's really a fundamental loop that I've learned to create, make it personal drop into it from where you are,
Explain where it's coming from. so that there's some context into that. This is something that I've been thinking about and that opens up even more so, because I'm actually sharing my story, I mean, openly transparently kind of interlocking all the views, whether it be Instagram or whether it be Facebook or whether it be a Facebook live or whether it be a tweet I'm interlocking, all of them into the same narrative.
Because it's what's real, it's what's actually happening. So I don't see anything as online marketing or as you're just broadcasting you, who you are, who I am. Yeah. I am the message, but you are, Hey. Yeah. It's like, what are you feeling? What are you talking about?
You are the medicine. Jesus said it really well. Don't do what I say, do what I do. So the broadcast and you are the message, whatever that might be, that's coming through you. Yeah, because what's coming through you is awesome, brother. Thank you. You're on the journey.
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