Feb. 11, 2020

049 Jason Earle: How to Build a Purpose-Driven Business From Zero

Jason Earle is a serial entrepreneur, environmental consultant and healthy home expert. In his current incarnation, he’s the founder/CEO of 1-800-GOT-MOLD? and MycoLab USA. A childhood burdened by allergies and asthma, caused by a moldy home...

We talked about

  • How he became the youngest licensed Wall Street stockbroker (and set a Guinness World Record for it)
  • How he found the mold removal business (starting from zero) and got massive media exposure soon after
  • What he learned from overcoming adversity (specifically his mom's suicide, depression, and Lyme disease)
  • How to observe your pain to liberate yourself
  • How to be honest yourself as an entrepreneur (market opportunity, internal doubting voice, external challenges, cost on your relationships,  cost on your health, etc)
  • How to pursue discomfort as a path for personal and entrepreneurial growth
  • What morning routine is and why he doesn't beat himself up if he doesn't do it 100%
  • How he filters all opportunities to focus on his X-factor?

Quotable Quotes

  • "Help enough people have a better quality of life, you’ll also have a better quality of life"
  • "Being a seeker is my #1 recommendation"
  • "Psychedelics will show you a different perspective of reality quick"
  • "When you are the observer of your pain, there is tremendous liberation"
  • "If you are a seeker, pain is your friend; pleasure is your enemy"
  • "Who are you doing this for? What are you doing this for?"
  • "Part of being a successful entrepreneur is seeing the world truthfully and lovingly"
  • "I am a best-effort person; I’ve learned to forgive myself"
  • "I’ve been given the gift of adversity at a young age"

Books Mentioned

  • See you at the Top by Zig Ziglar
  • Untethered Soul by Michael Singer
  • Anything by Ray Dalio
  • Awareness by Anthony de Mello


Jason Earle is a serial entrepreneur, environmental consultant and healthy home expert. In his current incarnation, he’s the founder/CEO of 1-800-GOT-MOLD? and MycoLab USA. A childhood burdened by allergies and asthma, caused by a moldy home environment, led him into the business in 2002, after escaping a nine-year career on Wall Street.

Connect With Jason

GOT MOLD?® & 1-800-GOT-MOLD?

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CK LIN 0:00
Noble Warriors, I'm really excited to have my new friend Jason Earle to be with us today. He's the CEO of 1800gotmold.com, and got a fascinating story. Open book, another noble warrior, who's willing to share his journey, his, his tactics, his mindset, with all of you, all of us here. So welcome to the show. Jason, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having me.

CK LIN 0:26
So you actually had a really fascinating story, like, why don't we actually go there first, why did you start got mold.com versus anything else that you'd be doing the world?

Let's just jump right in. That's great. I, I I'm in the mold business, by virtue of personal experience, that. you know, it's one of the things that you would never really think the mold industry has appeal, right? People people don't think of that as something that's got a lot of I mean, I don't I don't think there's even a curriculum that would get you properly trained for what we do. I'm in the healthy home business really more more broadly, but I would say more accurately. And so within that healthy home space, I am the founder of a company called 1800Gotmold, which is a Mold Inspection company that does not do remediation. So we do diagnostics inspection, basically sick building investigations, where people believe that their house or their workplaces is affecting their health adversely. And we go in and do the detective work, figure out what's going on, and then bring in whatever resources in terms of contractors not on a subcontractor basis, but we select and vet contractors who come into our scope of work, remediate the building, then we do the testing at the end, do all the verification to make sure it's been done properly before the final funds are released.

And so in essence, what we do is we we guide them through the entire process so that they don't have to experience a learning curve of dealing with a mold problem.

And so I've been in that business now for about 17 years, which is crazy. And that came after a career on Wall Street. I was a stockbroker for nine years, and we can talk about that to that We can kind of, we can start in the present, we'll go back to the past and what we've built together but, but the mold business came in it was sort of one of these things that in retrospect, it makes complete sense. But I never would have predicted this in a million years. If you told me 20 years ago that I'd be, you know, in the MOLD business where the CEO and founder of 1800gotmold, I would have laughed you out of the room and it just doesn't make any sense. But now because of what we'll talk about today, it makes makes nothing but sense.

So I actually after leaving Wall Street I was I was looking for something meaningful to do with my life. I had had a really nice career and in my in my early 20s and and I wanted to, to do something that would be a contribution to the greater good on. on Wall Street. There was none of that people who benefited the most were the people who own the source where I shopped that was it right. I was a money changer for all intents and purposes, if things went well, I made rich guys richer. If I made things didn't go well, then I was you know, causing harm. So it was really kind of one of those things where it rang very hollow for me and my mom's voice Always echoed in the back of my mind because when I was a kid, she had me volunteered at the local hospital or she was an administrator. And it was mostly because she didn't want me to stay home during the summer times, I think probably due to fear that i'd burn the house down. But what she did do was indoctrinate me into a a service based attitude. And so her hospital was a physical rehab center up occupational and occupational and whatever the rehabilitation so it was a lot of amputees and brain trauma. And so my jobs were throughout the hospital, you know, delivering goods to the store to the to the to the floors and you know, dealing with dietary and all that kind of stuff. So, so I got a lot out of out of contribution. My mom's philosophy was always that if you if you if you help improve the quality of other people's lives, the vibe, the byproduct of that is a great quality of life for yourself. Right?

So it's almost like the philosophy that if you help enough people get what they want, you'll get what you want and and and so Wall Street didn't push that or didn't scratch that itch for me, but was almost a volunteer go to various different, you know, I volunteer for Operation Smile, did a couple of international missions with them. And every time we came back from one of those, which were exhausting, and you know, there were time consuming, I felt more more fulfilled than any vacation where I was, you know, lounging at the beach, you know, being waited on hand and foot. And so, while I was back, I was I left wall street right around September 11.

And while I was backpacking around I ended up in Hawaii. And I was spending some time in on various islands but while I was in Oahu, who I was reading about this mole problem that had been discovered in the Hilton kulia Tower, so the flagship property for Hilton on Oahu, Waikiki Beach, their main building there was shut down for this for this massive mold problem and initially they thought it was about a half million dollar problem. What happened was a maid found it and you know, that began opening up the walls and as, as is common with big mole problems, you know, what you find is Generally the tip of the iceberg and as you begin unraveling the building, it's like Pandora's box. And so what was initially a half million dollar problem became a $5 million problem and then a $55 million problem.

And so there, there was big news on this little island, to say the least. And so there were lots of stories in the local papers about people who had been affected by the moldy conditions in the hotel. And one particular story jumped out at me it was a gentleman who had in his 40s developed adult onset asthma, which I'd never even heard of. And he was also allergic to all sorts of foods and things that he had never been sensitive to before. And it was a deja vu moment. For me, it was like a, it like jumped out and it brought me back to my own childhood because when I was four years old, I was I lost about 30% of my body weight in a three week period. And my mom being in the health care of was was was, was duly concerned, and they brought me to get to the doctor and doctor suggested that I go to Children's Hospital and they initially diagnosed me with cystic five Roses, which was a devastating diagnosis, my father lost four of his cousins before the age of 14 to that so it was in our genes and that was probably why it was such a quick diagnosis. But a second round of tests about six weeks later concluded that I didn't have cystic fibrosis evidence by the fact that I sit here with you, you know, I'm 43 years old. But actually what I had was asthma contacted by pneumonia, and I was alerted to every single thing in my environment. They did an allergy tests on me where they put me in the PAP coos and, and it's one of my earliest memories Actually, it's a formative memory, where they basically put you in a Papoose or a straitjacket with your back exposed and they have effectively a grid on your back and they did the skin testing on me. And so they put all the antigens in my dad's that I looked at the ladybug my leg my back just turned red with spots all over it. So I was allergic to grass, wheat, corn, eggs, dogs, cats, even cotton. And, and so I lived on a then non working farm, surrounded by grass, wheat, corn, eggs, dogs, cats, and obviously cotton So I really lived on inhalers until I was about 12 years old. And my book split up, and the house was sold and, and my symptoms disappeared. And I never thought about it really, I didn't give it much examination, my grandfather had gone out of his asthma. And so I think the family probably assumed as much. And that there was it was also true for me. And so, so I see a lot of instances I, I I'm sitting here in Hawaii, and I it was like, the light went on. And so I called my father from a payphone which probably isn't there anymore, and said he had even made a mold problem, it'll turn the road and he laughed at me. He's like, Jason, of course get mold, the mushrooms growing in the basement. Why do you ask? And, and it was like, I just immediately knew that I wanted to pursue this idea of how buildings impact people's health, because absent that exposure, my immune system was no longer on high alert. And these things that it was it was, it was receiving it as threats were no longer threats. They were part of my normal environment. So I'm now To this I'm allergic to nothing zero zilch right so all my friends who are doctors who refer patients to us are you know it's they're always amazed that I have absolutely no no allergies whatsoever so so anyway so I read this this this this story I'm immediately call my father I get this validation I come back to New Jersey armed with with curiosity

and time I was looking for a career change and I took a job working for actually answered net working for a company doing Basement Waterproofing mold remediation and basically just roll up my sleeves and start you know from from the ground up. And I had been a stockbroker right so this is a big shift to going from stock brokerage to like, you know, contractor So, but it wasn't long after I wasn't like a long after I was working with them. But I realized that I had basically jumped out of the frying pan of working with Wall Street guys that were pretty scurrilous, into this contracting world where these guys do modal mediation, we're actually doing really bad work, and they were in many cases, causing more harmed and then then then they weren't good because they were contaminating houses and things like that using chemicals. And so I saw an opportunity to create a company that would actually protect the consumer that would guide them through the process to insulate them from these players, these, these guys that at the time, there was no industry standard. It was like the Wild Wild West. There was there was no regulations, or anything and even where it is now in place, those those regulations are very poorly enforced. So anyway, that that's what what what got me into the Mold Inspection or assessment business was really the idea of helping people through this process, which I saw as complicated even being in the business. Seeing seeing how people simply couldn't do it on their own without making incredible mistakes would have long term consequences to their health and value and saleability and habitability of their homes. And so, at the time, I was dating this woman and she heard she was inspired by my interest in this and she heard about a guy who trained dogs to sniff out mold and buildings. I tell you all this for a reason. But the it was it was it was a it was a crazy it was a crazy idea. But I flew down to Florida and I met this dog trainer. And he introduced me to what would become my my four legged partner for 12 years Her name is Oreo, and Oreo and I came back arm put, you know, together to go and and sniff out molden buildings but really it was it was a it was a true secret weapon because people were so attracted the idea of using a rescue dog to sniff out in modern buildings and the guy so we ended up really getting a lot of a lot of traction to the press

CK LIN 10:34
per second. I mean because you actually jump the transformation story quite a lot. Right. So outside for a moment. So you're in Hawaii backpacking, you know, and discover this huge problem that that a lot of people experience the unhealthy home symptoms right I'm having mold and you just decided that all Wow, this is a Quite a transformational mechanism, the form from your own childhood. But what I wanted to focus on this is because a lot of times people entrepreneurs, especially with see a problem, and they want to solve this problem, right, but going from a wall street guy who makes tons of money to a contract guy, I mean, that's a pretty big jump from identifying the problem to say I want to be part of the solution to jumping into becoming a contractor in a mall business. Right. So that's a huge leap of faith on your part. So if you don't mind going back to the internal state, because yeah,

I did I tend to a jump. I did jump over that. That's a very critical part. So the I think the, the connectedness to my own personal story was really obviously the that was the the The lynchpin for me, what I realized in this space, okay was that this is the problem larger than me. And that no matter how long I work on this, I'll never be able to truly solve it. But I did believe that there was being done so poorly, that the any effort that I made in this direction would would yield tremendous benefit to lots of people. Right. And so, it became, it became clear to me that we all live in buildings, we all breathe air, right? When I started looking at the statistics, there are 37 million Americans in the United States who suffer from chronic sinusitis, and that's the most prevalent long term illness in America. According to the Mayo Clinic, 96% of more of those cases are mold related. Now, most of those 37 million people don't know that. And I figured there's a that's a car that's a bridge to build, right. So people are aware of that. And then also 24 million cases of asthma in America, of which 10 million are children. According to the numbers of 100% by the way, the last 10 years the truck The childhood asthma the the pediatric asthma cases are 100% last 10 years. So the all of those statistics continue to to, to come my way as I'm looking at this industry, and seeing how badly it's being done seeing the need for it. And I realized that there was there were opportunities in there that were significant. financially speaking, if you can solve enough of those problems, then the rewards would be there. But I also got so much gratification in the early inspecting the early days, not only from the people that were helping, but really also the idea that I had no idea what I was doing. It was completely making up and I making it up as I went along. There were no courses to take. So I got really inspired by the the idea of a sort of a rebirth for myself, but I kept I kept thinking about the fact that that the vast majority of people who go through this are really truly like, like, they had no idea how How much of a of a fulcrum or how much of a leverage point, this particular thing this mold problem in their life could be, it could either be solved and they would never think about it again, or it could be exacerbated, and it can literally change the trajectory of their entire lives. And so it became my mission to help people navigate that knowing the importance of the outcomes. And the more I did it, the more I realized that any obstacle I had to overcome in order to get there was worth it because the problem and the significance of that opportunity were so big.

CK LIN 14:32
So was the aha moment literally the call with your father to say, holy shit. Of course, this was the thing was that the moment where that became your mission?

You know, it's funny, it's a really good question. And I'm glad you're asking that because it the initial response coming from a guy who was at Walsh Wall Street, I had the, I would say the vast majority my concern was, is there a business here? What can I charge? Is there a large enough total? Is there a large enough total addressable market there? You know, is there a competitive look, what's the competitive landscape look like? You know, I looked at it from the perspective of a business person. But the more I got into it, the more I realized that the mission, which I, which I put front and center in the beginning, the mission became a larger part of it. And as that mission as it actually did truly consume more of my thoughts, I would say it was more of a gradual process where I realized that this could be my mission. But I didn't realize until I actually really ran into some hard times, and was willing to continue through those hard times that it was my mission. That's actually probably when it was probably at my darkest hour, there was a point where we almost went out of business actually, several times, and it was during those darkest hours where I had to make a decision. And that's what galvanized that. So that's a great question. And I never really thought about whether there was a moment I saw that it could be and then I and then I made a decision that it was

CK LIN 16:00
Yeah, I and by the way, the context of this question is because a lot of people listening to this are in the transition, career-wise, business-wise, whatever it may be. And they're grappling with that themselves, right? And is it like inside out like, Hey, this is my mission no matter what I'm going to make it happen Damn it, right. I want to solve this big problem for my younger self, let's say or outside-in approach be like, hey, huge business. Let me keep cracking it in. And I asked that more specifically during dark times as, as you said, because we, as entrepreneurs go on and do certain things. We have a vision. But the realization of this vision from the moment you can see this idea to the actual feedback loop isn't always there isn't like, oh, boom, I have an idea. Millions of dollars comes in positive feedback. It's not like that

that's a liability if that happens sometimes. Right?

CK LIN 17:04
Right, exactly right.

Yeah, or whatever, right? So, but that's what they want. So so what I wanted to dive a little deeper is how did you find that courage to keep moving forward? In spite of the lack of immediate feedback, business-wise, support from family or friends or girlfriends, whatever, or that internal faith in yourself that you, my friend, Jason, are the guy to actually make this happen? Because in the dark times, when naturally comes is maybe I'm not the guy, maybe what I thought was the total addressable market just isn't there. Maybe a strategy I'm going about it is and blah, blah, blah. So there's a lot of like samsara the new spiritual people call it right. samsara there's, this fear comes in so I'm curious to know in during those dark times, how to That you navigate that space such that you continue to move forward continue to, you know, believe in yourself your capability, your strategy, your, your vision to keep address this addressable market.

So I think there's a couple things that come to mind right away. First of all, I started talking about the dogs because that that was a there's a major, but I think that's why I was driving towards that part of the story. Because a lot of it had to do with with burning the ships making a completely total immersive commitment that was that you couldn't really turn back from but that but but the preceding component that I think is really important is that I had been given the gift of adversity at a young age. And so I I have mind those experiences as a child, and as even as a young adult, and to find, to find comfort in discomfort and to realize that the only true the only true lessons I've ever learned came from came from what people would call negative experiences. I don't call them negative bad experiences painful maybe at the time but you know, what we call negative or bad is it is generally speaking of very premature judgment at the very least, because the things that I would say are the most negative or the worst experience of my life by external judgment are the absolute most powerful important experiences so so as it as a kid, you know, I grew up in a really kind of a, sort of give you the preamble on this but you know, I had a really rocky childhood, my parents were tumultuous, alcoholic, all that good stuff, you know, sort of the textbook. Sure, a lot of our entrepreneur brethren are connecting on that. But you know, we grew up in a in I was an only child with several siblings, but all have siblings. So my mom had been previously married. I had an older, an older sister through that marriage. My dad had been previously married. He subsequently gotten remarried, had other children as well. So but the When they when that was that was that I was I was an entrepreneur early on, and I had to make money because my parents didn't have any I had to make money to get what I wanted. So they always said that so I had various different businesses, as a child, all over the place, I always had more money in my pocket than my parents did, that's for sure. Whether it was going to the golf course, and finding the golf balls and around the perimeter of the water holes and then washing them off in the selling and back to the golfers. Or, you know, we were selling sodas and water to the to the, to the construction workers in our in our booming, better community, New York City veteran community who just bought them for 10 cents. That was, I guess, the Costco at the time, and we sell them to the construction workers for $1. No little red wagon. So I always had that sort of that was always my inclination. But then my mom committed suicide when I was 14 years old. And she hadn't she had been making several sheep. She had been driving in that direction for a long time. So it was really not a surprise at the time. And and then I got Lyme disease or I was diagnosed with Lyme disease about a year. Later. And then so it was a very difficult time. And around that time I was I was experimenting with psychedelics heavily, I think partially for escape escapist reasons, but also because I had found just a tremendous amount of insight from from them at the time when I been experiencing all this, this really sort of existential loss really, you know, the loss of my mother and then, you know, dealing with the, the Lyme disease really took a lot out of me it was 30 pills. It was very it was before it was in early 90s. So there wasn't a standard protocol. There was not a lot of research and so I was on 30 pills a day of antibiotics for three days, three days on three days off, and I was sick and vomiting for three days and I'd sleep for three days. So they basically forced me to drop out of high school.

And, and it's through that actually.

So I'll tell you that so I think they called me in from from from class and they notified That I violated their attendance policy and I had a good relationship with all the teachers. They knew that I was going through a lot of stuff. And I got A's on all my tests, but I never done any homework. So I get C's and D's and F's, because I just didn't I would sleep in class, I was a terrible, terrible, terrible student. I didn't want to be there. They didn't want me there. So it brought me into the, into the principal's office, and said, you know, you violated intense policy. And you know, this is this is it's not working here. So we've decided that you're going to have to repeat your junior year and I was in my junior year, they said three off the statement. And repeat it again. So I said what you want me to stay for the rest of the year, and then and then and then come back and do this again. It doesn't make much sense to me. So basically, we resolved that I was going to, I was going to drop out. So I went to again another payphone called my father from a payphone and told him that I wanted to drop out of high school, and I wanted to get my GED and start college a year early. I wanted to leapfrog. And so my dad's a little bit of a rebel and so he signed me out of school that day, and I and I was working in the gaseous Where I had previously been part-time, and I got full-time hours.  The guy came in with a flat tire in his BMW. And he asked me to fill a tire with air, and I did. But actually he asked me to start with air. And I said, I said, I filled with air, but it'll be flat again before, you know I said, If you give me a few minutes, I can fix it for you. He said, if you can do it faster is money up for you. And I said, Fine. So we rolled over to the pump, and you can see the nail sticking out. So I took the nail I plugged it, filled it with air, and I said $5 and he put some money in my hand drove away. And when I looked at my hand, it was a $50 bill. So and i and i and i in my in my youthful I was 16 years old. I it was all I never got a $50 tip. Yeah, so I thought it was a mistake. So I put the $50 bill in my pocket and I waited for him to come back. I thought for sure he was going to come back and say sorry, kid, you know, that was and he didn't. But two weeks later, I saw him again and I walked up to him and I said Hey, mister, I don't know if you realize, you know, if you remember me, you know me. Can you fix your tire? And he's like, yeah, Jason right. And he remembered my name. So it was the first big lesson in like, you know how to win friends and family. People and I said yeah, yeah, I can't remember my name. But I said, I don't know if you realize it, but you know, you give me a $50 bill for a $5 repair, you know, and he goes, I didn't have 100 you know, Mind blown. So I just was such a naive little, you know, kid in the boonies. And so I said, I feel like if anything that I owe you a favor or something he's like, if you don't get it, like if anything, I owe you a favor. And I said, Well, what do you do for a living? He said, I work on Wall Street, and I still have it, give me a job. And he goes, you only get like what you asked for. So write down my number and call me by 9am tomorrow. Don't ever bother calling me at all. I was like, all right, where's the pen? And I grabbed I just found a pen and I didn't have a piece of paper. So I started writing his number down on my hand. And he started laughing. He and he rolls up his sleeve. And he had stock quotes written all over his arm over you, okay? You're gonna fit right in. And so, so I said, RMS Rob, I'll call you tomorrow. He's like, yeah, we'll see. We'll see. And he drove off and went home until my father said, you know, you would believe what just happened. I met this guy. And you know, I think most parents would be pretty skeptical and they would probably Kid against getting your expectations up and probably be concerned, you know, like, see a normal guy, you know, what's he asking the kid 16 year old, you know gash hockey for you know, his son could have been perceived this strange but I, I called him an 859 because I was concerned I wasn't sure how hard that nine o'clock was I dialed the phone at 59. And he said, Hey, you call him I said, Of course I did. And he goes, What are you doing today? And I said, I'm going to work. He goes where I said the gas station, he says, wrong answer. And I was like, Can we do that again? He said, Yeah, so he goes, What are you doing today? And I said, don't work. He said, Where? And I said, What's your address? He said, at a Pine Street 10th floor and hangs up and I was like, What am I gonna do? So I put on my finest pair of jeans for my wall street interview, I didn't have a suit and 16 years old, you know, I was literally planning to go to work at the gas station. So I call that a work and I put on my jeans I borrowed penny loafers from my dad and I put on a button-down shirt and a sweater and I flip on my with Wall Street. And and and the guy was the managing director of a brokerage firm this whole nother story but he ended recruited me and training me and, and took me under his wing and I unknowingly at the time about a year later I had my license, I became the youngest licensed stockbroker in history with a Guinness World Record to you a Guinness World Record against world record for being the youngest licensed stockbroker in history.

CK LIN 26:16
Yeah, cool is that Wow,

well, that and $1 50 will buy you about a half a slice of pizza in New York City these days, but that was it was it was a time in a place and it was it was a wild time was the early 90s. So it was and I was a stockbroker from 1994 until until 2001. And so I had a nice career. I stopped I started a month before the month after rather the First World Trade Center bombing and I quit a month before September 11. Wow. So bookends. And so but the this all circles back to the question about

CK LIN 26:50
By the way, I just wanted to underline this for the listeners. Opportunity is when preparation so luck is, is preparation meets opportunity. And the fact that you didn't just what you You not only showed up in your life, but also you took action, you're ready to actually pounce on this and say, Hey, I'm going to be working for you, then you figure out how to do it. So this is a beautiful illustration of that.

What was also funny was the first thing was that there are a lot of lessons in there. We even remember my name. So I tried to make a point of remembering people's names, even the people who fix my tires, right? Just a conscientiousness. It doesn't these are, you know, there is no, there's no person you should remember a person that doesn't matter. Right. So I, I'm terrible at it. But it's something I strive to do. And I and the other thing was that showing up and in fact, he said, you know, you showed up and I said, Yeah, I can't believe you know, I don't know why you're so surprised about that. And he said 90% of success in life is showing up kid, and I didn't realize he was quoting Woody Allen at the time. But it's true, right? I mean, like, if you just show up that 99% of problems you have out there with people that they don't show up emotionally, physically or otherwise, they don't show up, right. If everyone just showed up, we can go on more stuff done. And and then he he took me under his wing and he and he really did he put me through the wringer. It was a hellish training. And he didn't do it intentionally. He did it intentionally made it difficult. He knew that it was going to be difficult, but he he made it more difficult. I just had brunch with him two weeks ago. He's my one of my closest friends. You know, he's as awesome and Ray Randy is just like my heart right? You guys the best. But you know, he gave me my first book thinking Grow Rich Give me my first self help book. While I was working for him within a few weeks, right down the street. There was a Rand McNally store that had an audio book section. And I bought I loaded up with a little bit of money. I was getting paid $200 a week. And I buy audio books. Ziggler see what the top my first one I was listening to cassette tapes in my desk, clothes, you know, making phone calls, but I had to make 400 phone calls a day I was getting paid $200 a week. Then I moved into his apartment. I was paying him 600 a month for rent. So $200 left for myself, and about $3 a day budget so the hotdogs and conditioners and whatever else I hope In the bottom of my shoes, I was like a ratio or sorry, but it was real. And I lived it, you know. But it was it was hard work, I would work, I would get in there at six o'clock in the morning, I work until 10 o'clock at night. And, you know, if you make 400 phone calls a day to become a successful stockbroker, you had to make 400 calls a day. And one guy said yes to you, you were going to make a million dollars, if you could do that every day. That means 99.75% failure rate is the key to success in that business. The 399 phone goals out of the 400 will be failures. And that one is all you needed. And so when I look at the the, the the obstacles in my path now, I think I'm guarantee I'm not going to fail 99.75% of the time in my career. So, you know, this is a training ground. So for that reason, I think a lot of times having having early adversity is your greatest gift people. Unfortunately, don't necessarily reorder that or reframe it early enough in their life, to recognize that Where the gold is, you know, they think that they should have been like the silver spoon kid who has it easy who's doesn't have to work so hard, right? I I'm really excited about the fact that I was I was the hand me down kid, you know, my parents had no money I had to go figure out how to do those things on my own, the greatest gift I had was not being like my, my wealthy friends, you know? Because I had no choice but to to figure out what that path would look like on my own.

CK LIN 30:27
So let me actually underline something real quick because a lot of people especially cererbral folks, over achievers they will look at the self help industry quote unquote, write these books Think and Grow Rich young me at the top Ziggler Tony Robbins as you know, like whoo, whoo, whatever stuff right? I, as you can imagine, at the end is I'm hosting this noble warrior podcast is all about that because in my mind, is if we can figure out how to use the internal resources that we have our mind body, our spirit, our emotions, our heart. To the extent where we actually align ourselves to what we're here to do, then we can have a life of more meaning and more purpose in our life. So I'm curious to know from your point of view, because you receive that, that gift, super young 15 I wish I had received that gift in a very cultivated way at 15. So for those people who are like, I don't know about Tony Robbins or NLP, plant, medicine, psychedelics, all these things, what would you say to them?

I would say that if you're willing to look at the world, honestly, and if you can suspend disbelief, and simply look at objective reality, which is a really hard thing to do, I mean, it's a hard thing to do on its own, but if you can look at it, this is evidence based stuff. Right? I you know, it's proven that you can use You can drive yourself into a tizzy. If you want to. If you want to destroy your life, that's a pretty easy path, you know how to do that. Right? That that's a well, and the same thing goes with with success, I think you start to realize that all of these teachers all are teaching something similar, they may call these things differently, but there's a common thread and you can say that either great religions the common the common thread on all those things are what I'm interested in, I don't care what the labels are, or or even what you call your path or whatever. You think the commonality the common denominator there is is is consistent, and it comes down to being willing to, to willingness i think is the first step right. And and willingness gives you open mindedness and, and and i think that those are the most important steps when you're starting to make a transformation in your life. Because it's the preconceived notions, it's the ego, it's all these these resistances is the voices in your head that have gotten you to where you are. will keep you where you are. Right? So, so it I really do think it comes down to now a lot of people find their way in bumping and they just bump into stuff eventually and they realize that's not working. But I do think it comes down to just plain and simple willingness, and then to be willing to look at the world, honestly, because the teachers are out there. You know, we live in the most amazing time of the world because you don't have to go down the street to the Rand McNally store. Like I didn't buy an audio book with money you don't have it's available online for free. You know, podcasts. Oh my god, I would have missed like, a dream come true. I mean, just, it's just amazing. So So anybody that's a seeker being a seeker is what would be my my number one recommendation, you know, but I don't know that you can give anybody that wisdom can't be human wisdom has to be discovered. it can be offered, but it can't be transferred.

CK LIN 33:53
Hmm. Right.

And so so i don't i don't know if i think that when the you know, they say when The student is ready the teacher will appear. And I think that when you're when it comes down to, you know, saying, looking at someone who is not open minded that I would say probably they're not ready.

CK LIN 34:09
Hmm. So one of the things that I teach personally as well as to all my participants, as well as to this podcast is in my mind, after all these years of studying, reflecting all of it, to me, life is a game of awareness. The more awareness we have internally and externally, the more effective we can be to impact the external world the way that we want to. Right. So when it comes down to it, all of it is awareness and then effectiveness. Right. So thank you for sharing that story. I want to segue back to back when you're 1415 because your mom committed suicide 14, you have you had Lyme disease I 15. Right. One may say Huge traumatic events. And a lot of people would see that as Wow, I've you know, experienced misfortune bad luck was me. You didn't let that stop you rather nowadays is you see as a blessing. So tell us a little bit about that journey going from Wow, this is shitty. How do I turn it is into a gift?

Yeah, I don't know. What exactly was that was the the catalyst for the it was a rapid awareness though. When my mom died It was a major shock of course, but it was not. It was a shock to the point where I didn't believe it for weeks. I would actually go to the grocery store and I'd see her back of her head and then she turned around it was some other woman right? And I'd play officers the main call my home phone and just hope that she would answer you know, like I was in total denial about But at the same time, I knew it was true because we had been through this issue. It's attempted a couple of other times. And so in that way, it was kind of a relief, frankly, but but there was a lot of time to contemplate this. And I remember that the anger that came up first was that it was that it was not her life to give away. And what was interesting about that was, I believe it was her life the giveaway that this is a gift. This is a gift right? This is this is not I don't believe that I believe that we have a response. This is this is a gift. And and yes, I guess it is your life you can do with it what you want. And so if that's your choice, but I felt that it was so precious that it was it was a gross misuse of this gift. And I and it was interesting because that was a shift in mindset for me because I had been so unhappy. And I would say suicidal ideation. I wouldn't say I was suicidal, but there are lots of thoughts and I was listening to terrible music. I was sitting textbook example of garbage in garbage out. And and so I was I but but but I will say that you know that my the psychedelics specifically the plant medicine, you know, I was I was experimenting a lot with suicide at the time, I had a tremendous amount of insights into into the connectedness of everything and also into the forgiveness.

CK LIN 37:24
So you did it 14, 15-sh during that time.

Yeah, throughout throughout high school you were even earlier even, you know,

CK LIN 37:32
in the recreational way or more of a intentional way

You know what it was it was intentional. I was always interested, I'd read a lot of you know, the beatnik stuff. And, and I and I was interested in sort of the, in the alternative thought that came from from that period. So, yes, there was, I think a degree of of escapism, of course, and it was obviously experimentation, but I started really seeing the gifts that come from that the Different insights and as you say, awareness is is what it's really all about. It's the ability to see from different perspectives to teach, which teach you that the one that you have, isn't it? It's not it. In fact, it's barely anything. It's, it's a, it's an incredible illusion. And I will show you how it's an illusion because I can, I can change it quickly with this very simple molecule. And then you'll experience a very different reality and you can't tell me that's not real. Right. So, so changing awareness, changing perspectives, was something that that I found to be really useful in in right sizing myself. And, and, and also so I but but I was I went from being extremely I mean, it was depression, there was no I tend to not use those kinds of labels, but I was deeply depressed and really kind of wondering what what what was me I there were times when I wouldn't get the Lyme disease and all this stuff, right. But really, the Gift of her death actually made me a grateful person. I realized in examining her process that she her perspective was that she she had she couldn't see past the tip of her nose. She had her hand in front of her face and she couldn't see that it was her own hand right blocking her so she she lost perspective on the grander in the majesty of the universe. She she, you know, I would sit there in the middle of the meadow and and think about how you know, we're sitting on a rock spinning around space, and we get just close enough to the sun in the summer that we get hot or and we don't burn into a crisp and then just far enough away in the winter that we have cold but we don't turn into a ball of ice and delicate balance is just so extraordinary. How could you ever want to truncate the timetable on this very limited time we have and so is really, I think her her lack of appreciation for that. The galvanized my sense of gratitude. More than anything else.

CK LIN 40:07
Thank you for sharing that. As you're speaking, there's a internet meme that comes to mind. I don't know if you've seen it. This is a little boy on the ground with the with a boot on his face is as if someone is stepping on him. And then the next frame is what the boot was his hand wearing a boot on his face. Talking about because I mean Buddhist principles, life is suffering. pain may be inevitable, but it is what we give it the story tell them makes the pain worse that turned into suffering.

Yeah, I think that that's I think that's a misquote. I've often thought that you know, that the idea that suffering suffering is is is part of life. Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional. I think that that Might be a translational issue, pain is part of life. Suffering is truly optional. And and suffering has to do with identifying that pain as you and you know and and you know you some of this stuff that I that I do now as as a as a as a secret as a as a I hope more and more conscious adult is experienced put myself into situations where physically I'm uncomfortable, you know, the Wim Hof type stuff, you know, hot and cold contrast therapies. And, and you know, when you're doing it right, you are stepping back you're sitting back observing you when you're the observer of the pain and you're not being this a tremendous liberation. Right? And so I think that if you if you start looking around at the world, you know, for me, this is one of the most amazing things in the world, right? For me is is so you know, it there's proof that pain, there's evidence but this goes back to what I was saying before about if you're a seeker, if you're a seeker and you are willing to look at the world, honestly, you'll see that what you're being what You what you think what your body thinks what your ego thinks is opposite game. It's It's It's everything is opposite day, right and pain is your friend. Pleasure is your enemy. I've never learned any great lesson from pleasure. I've never learned I've learned bad lessons. I've learned what not to do. Right? I've learned to get lazy. I've learned to take shortcuts I've learned that I have that it to me that I'm doing this thing, right? When things are going well, when things are not going well, that's what the goal is right? And I'm not saying that you should sabotage your life but I have a feeling that I've done that more than once or twice, subconsciously in order to facilitate some growth in my life. You know, if I wasn't you know, the kid with the boot on my own head or throwing putting obstacles in front of me, you know, I sometimes like I said, I think that I wrote the script of this movie because not only is it pretty project, I liked the outcome. You know, I liked I liked like the one. I love the story I love I love this story.

CK LIN 42:52
Yeah, you know, so one thing is, again, we're mixing analogies a little bit, but I love to look at our life as we're the script writer, the actor, the director, everything all in one. So if you don't like the way the story is going, there's probably some huge lessons there. But if you don't like the way it's going, you are the script writer. you are the Director, you can totally rewrite it the way that you want to whatever that may look like. And if you enjoy quote and quote, enjoy the suffering, great. Continue to go down that path. But ultimately, I believe that that's, that's, you know, we're the master of our life and we are the captain of our soul, right?

So let's make a decision if you want happiness or not, right. So the first step is, is again, willingness. If you decide you want happiness, you really it's like what Mickey singer says or in a untethered soul? You know, the first decision is are you committed to being happy? Are you committed to being happy because if you are, then you're going to have to make a decision as to whether or not you want to hold on to that thing that you're that that's making you miserable or Let it go. So it's pretty binary when when Michael center talks about it right, but the process of getting there may not be so straightforward.

CK LIN 44:07
So they can bring back to your story because we digress quite a bit. So you're started with identifying a market opportunity, you had then identify, hey, this is part of my story, overcoming asthma and creating a healthy home for others. And you're willing to go through the journey of whatever challenge that may come starting a business this and that. So for the entrepreneurs listening to this, they're going through in the middle of a right now. Do you have any framework, tactical things that they can start thinking about? Because it's not easy in that space? Being challenged is not fun is not pleasant. It's kind of like being in ice bath actually, it's not too far from that. Right. So what would you say to them, such that they can either refine their vision, refine their strategy or refine their action.

You know, it depends. If I'm talking to a purpose driven entrepreneur, you know, that's that's a different conversation rather than just an entrepreneur who's who's sort of chasing the, you know,

CK LIN 45:17
the people listening this chances are they want to bring more purpose and meaning in the thing that they do not just pure money driven venture, even though it's both.

You know, when you're running into obstacles, you know, you're always going to be questioning whether or not you're doing the right thing. And you know, the biggest problem with entrepreneurship is that you're you it's a very solitary thing. It's a very lonely, lonely thing. And you generally speaking, if you're asking for advice, you're asking for advice from people who have a conflict of interest in the situation. So if it's your wife or girlfriend or or parent or investor, they generally speaking are much more risk averse than then then the entrepreneur who's in the end They want the best for you. But they're scared too. They're more scared. And so it's really it's a really lonely place if you want if you keep all that inside So, so So I think the first thing to do is surround yourself with with people, I think I think that's a really important thing is to have come up or even if it's just virtually like this, you have to have got to have some people that you can connect with, to speak out about this thing. But the internal framework for me is, is that I in I think I just always continually reminding myself that, that the opportunity here is greater than any obstacle I have to overcome in order to achieve it. And so that's it, that's a repetitive thought or feeling. It's a it's it. And I'm in a business where fortunately, you know, there is a degree of, you know, some immediate gratification. We were fortunate enough to have some early success. So we knew that we got validation in it. And so I knew it was a matter of iterations and maybe, you know, different approaches. So it wasn't like it was going They're into some completely virgin space and trying to make up, you know, some sort of solution to that might have that might have a problem to solve, right? I think I think the key for me as a cert as an entrepreneur that's purpose driven is that you first have to find a real problem. And you have to really solve it. And you do it with one person. And you find so find a prop, find a need and fill it, fine, fill that need, and then fund it. And then you turn around and then you try to scale as much as you can and increase your, your impact without reducing the quality of what you're trying to do so but I think that really, if you're, if you're bumping up against stuff and you're not able to validate what you do, you might be in the wrong place. And so you need to be able to be honest with yourself that if you're either not able to do it emotionally, sometimes you have to be honest, that you maybe have to do is have habit as a side gig. You know, you have to maybe build up to this thing. This isn't this is this is like, you know, being an entrepreneur is a lot like being an athlete. You know, you can't expect to go be a triathlete tomorrow. You start with you know, go out and run around the block. You know you you have to endurance for this stuff, anybody who just jumps into it, it's a skill that you get better and better at because you start to learn how to deal with that doubting voice, you start to learn to deal with external criticism, you start to learn your, your skin gets thicker in certain areas, but maybe your sensitivity to the right advice or the right voices becomes much more acute. And so it's a process but it's only a process. It's it's custom for you. And and it's only for you. And if you choose to do it, it's only you have to do it with the with the knowledge of the risks involved, you're likely going to blow up relationships, you're likely going to blow yourself up, you're likely going to run out of money, you're likely going to be scared existentially. You're likely not going to be able to live a comfy life and a life of growth. And so if you can go into eyes wide open, and you also have to be doing something that the money is not the driving force, because when you encounter real obstacles, the money is not going to get you there.

CK LIN 48:57
I want to say this Well, some people may say right let me be the devil's advocate for a moment. made a bunch of money before you had money. So of course, you can say that.

No, I actually lost most of my money when the.com bubble burst. So I was I had made a lot of money, I mean, millions, millions of dollars in my 20s. And I spent it like a drunken sailor and I had a great time. And I don't regret a single minute of it. You know, I missed out on a lot of opportunities, because I was too busy partying too busy being a dumb, you know, young, I own my own brokerage firm. I was 24 years old, you know, so I was having a lot of fun. But when the.com bubble burst, I think I gave away that money. for other reasons, too. I think that subconsciously, it was like, boom, start from scratch, almost like dirty money. You know, there was something there that felt like it was time to purge and then and then be reborn in many ways. So I came into this scrappy, I mean, I started the company that it's now one 800 got mold with a borrowed credit card. You know, I bought a ban on eBay, I bought a used dog, which I can tell you more about that and have used van eBay and, and and created 100 I'm old so and it was fear I also ratcheted down my lifestyle so that I could afford if I need to flip burgers to pay the rent I could do it. I had a bicycle instead of a car for the for the beginning, except for the van my work hand was my car for a number of years. So not exactly the sexiest thing is I did not set myself up for first, I got my stuff, set myself up for an easy path, I set myself up for path where if I came into obstacles I can against came up against obstacles like I knew I would I would be able to endure them.

CK LIN 50:34
So let me ask you this, because people are listening to this very much, right? This is an extension of who I am. One of my core beliefs is Kaizen everlasting, lean into my edge, lean, lean into my discomfort for the sake of challenges, right. So, but sometimes I do feel like a maybe too addicted to that challenge. You know what I mean, so I had to actually make an effort to To be in the present moment, and now being grateful and actually not to always see the extreme hardship. Does that make sense? Is the yin and the yang, right? So, so in. So I'm trained, I've trained myself over the years to lean into discomfort. And also these days, I had to train myself actually, to go back, not to always pursue the 1% you know, go for the home run kind of thing that makes sense. So I'm curious about your point of view. How do you find how you, my friend find that equilibrium? So you don't you're not addicted to the hardship you're not addicted to, you know, throwing everything burn the ship every time you have an idea, you know, I mean,

I'm not sure that I have overcome that to be honest. Because I tend to I mean, you know, I don't want to say fear is a great motivator, but I mean, you know, I do put myself in uncomfortable situations to, to, to force change at times, and I'll notice myself Doing things that might be perceived as almost like the preamble to self sabotage. And I and so identifying that early is, is, is probably that, the the indication of some growing maturity. But, you know, the, the, I, you know, the thing is, is that if you identify as like a type a motivated person, and it's about accomplishment if you're if you're looking at this as a competitive thing, and you and there's this idea of accomplishment, a lot of this is is doing in the not doing, right, it's almost like meditation, it's the most important thing you can do and not doing right. And so being able to understand that, that this is just a competition with yourself. And that, that that really has more to do with sharpening your AX, you know, the whole idea of taking your time and and that the this aspirational aspect, is the question is, who were you doing this for? Huh? What are you doing this for? doing this for headlines if you're doing this for ego if you're doing this, because to fill a void in yourself, we all right, I mean, we're all in a sense of perpetual discomfort and we're doing all sorts of things in order to, to solve to fix that, right? I mean, I got the human condition, if I've learned one thing from having a, an infant is that the day was born, I noticed we had the rock him constantly, right? And they say you have to shoot the baby, right? And I'm thinking that guy doesn't have any bills to pay. He doesn't have, you know, worry in the world, why does he have to be soothed, right? Because we come into this, this shell this through this, this this vehicle, this learning device, we come into this thing, in a sense in a state of discomfort, it's our human condition. And so we're constantly moving away from comfort or towards pleasure, which is just another form of moving away from discomfort and, and so but when you start to realize that there's a payoff by pursuing discomfort as a way of increasing your quality of life for and then you become competitive about that, and then you find if anytime you do it Anytime of behavior, this is my, because I also have a history of addiction. Anytime I'm doing something that is causing me problems, and I know it's causing me problems and they continue to do it anyway, even if it is in pursuit of greatness, it's not unhealthy behavior. And so therefore, so if I'm doing this discomfort thing to the point where it's causing other issues, and it's an addictive behavior, and therefore, it's not it's counterproductive and that I need to reel it back in. Does that make sense?

CK LIN 54:29
It totally does. And I really appreciate that. And what I want to underline is, there's a couple of things that you said you drop a few gems just in that last few minutes, I want to underline this that is, why are you doing this? And what are you doing this for? If you can answer that question in a very rational central way, then you can have that awareness Am I doing this for self importance? Am I using this as a way to fix something, fill a void whatever That if you can answer that in a very honest way, that's where you can find a way back to equilibrium. Absolutely. Yeah. So really appreciate and thank you. So again, I wanted to respect your time. And so if you don't mind going to a little bit more tactical things up, how you actually on a day to day level, find your center, find your equilibrium, and morning ritual evening ritual, if you can tell us a little bit about that. And the internal awareness I on the external effectiveness side, that would be really appreciated.

Yeah, so I tend to be a I mentally am an all or nothing kind of person. And that has been a problem for me. So what I've learned is that I am a, I'm a best efforts kind of person, and I and I'm learning to forgive myself for for striving, and you know, so if I if I want to meditate, I want to meditate every day and I'm going to do it twice a day and I'm going to if I if I don't meditate, then it's then I'm not going to do it at all. I just you know, I put my hand that's historically it's all or nothing. It's binary. And so over the over the years, I've learned that you don't have to do everything that you intend to do every single day. But if you do most of it, then you're going to be starting to develop some habits, you're going to start if you go to the gym every single day, you're never going to have time to heal and recover, right? So you need to have time and contrast and all of these exercises, but for me a morning routine is extremely important. And then for me an evening routine is also important. And again, I don't do these things, all of these things every single day, I do write down I've got a journal every day. And I and I and I have I have my morning routine written down at the top and I've had forms me to have these things written and and and then I find that I'm glossing over it so I write them down every morning. So in the morning, I wake up and I hydrate. I wake up generally with the sun if I can wake up earlier I do between five and sevens my time by five minutes. Mmm. So I whether I get up to five or not. The point is that's my time. And so I'll get up in the morning and I hydrate immediately between a leader and a leader half of filtered water with some mineral drops, maybe some lemon And now meditate for generally about 20 minutes I sit and write my journal my journal is generally just a free form kind of like mental dump I generally do something some some something physical in order to wake up and sometimes I follow my gut I don't necessarily always do it the same order I try to meditate as much as I in the morning first thing but then I do something physical generally I do like 10 sun salutations and poor stretching things to just kind of integrate my body my think my thoughts and but really trying to stay stay focused on on just being present who were grateful in my journal oftentimes are really doing the gratitude dump and and i focusing on that is extremely, extremely important and having time to have your own thoughts. I do not look at my phone until probably eight or 9am I do use it as a timer but I'm very very strict about not going into any of the other apps. I don't look watch any TV. I don't watch TV at all really except for some CNBC but but no Morning that that's my morning and then around around 830 or nine, I'll begin looking at emails and start starting to map out my day. But also on that same in my journal where I've got the morning routine written. I've got three primary tasks. So I've distilled from the night before, but my three primary tasks are and they're always the hardest thing first, right? So the biggest thing, whatever I'm especially avoiding, I will write down as the number one thing. And if you do that, it's like the big rocks thing. If Steven Colby, there's if anybody wants to Google Stephen rock, Stephen Colby big rocks, it's a great piece. And it talks about prioritizing, making your your big stuff be your priority, because little little stuff always takes care of itself where you can delegate this. And so and then below that, I'll have some personal items that I want to that I'll need to take care of are open loops that were accomplished from the previous day. And then on the other side of the page, I have call notes. And so I'll just be writing whatever's going on throughout the day. So I keep kind of a log of what's happening but at night, after and throughout the day. I'm doing I'm taking time to I've begun doing short five minute meditations throughout the day here in there as a reset, because what I've noticed is in my 20 minute meditations, I get most of my value out of the first three minutes is a tm, they do. I do, actually, you know, I did tm for a long time, I'm now really just just a centered breathing. And so I've kind of dropped the mantra. But I'm actually a mantra, I should say, has in the last six months or so, it's actually gone to whenever I start to notice my mind wandering, I go to let go. Let me inhalation ago and exhalation that has become that really resonates with me. I've been doing a lot a lot of reading, Michael Michaelson, your untethered soul which I know you did a book club piece for which I loved is now one of my favorite books is in my success library. Letting Go also by Dr. David Hawkins, the letting go thing has been super powerful because I'm starting to realize the tensions mental and physical that I'm able to drop in a quick three to five minute being center. And so that's been the most important thing stopping to take the time to sharpen your axe. And then at night, I'll decompress, I'll try to keep the phone away for you know, hour to two hours, or any screens hour, two hours before bedtime. hydrate properly, I try not to eat anything, like for the three hours, or less than three hours before bedtime if I can. And then I write down my intentions for the for the for the next day on that same journal that I talked about in terms of the major tasks, oh, I also have major themes. So at the top of certain major themes, morning routine, and I've in front of me, primary tasks, and then my personal life. And so the major themes might be something that I'm wrestling with, right? So that might be I'm not having coffee after 2pm I'll write that down. So then that's just a touchdown for me to remember the thing that new behavior that I'm trying to focus on throughout my day. So that's what's in front of me as a constant reminder because I believe that we're, we are subject to influence. And so I want the influence to be from for me, instead of what's going on at you know, I want to be an active participant in The creation of my own influence. Right? That makes sense.

CK LIN 1:01:04
I appreciate that. Thank you. Two more questions. One is, what kind of books are your success bookshelf? Like what what? What's the most impactful books for conscious entrepreneurs building a business bring more purpose and meaning their life? What books would you recommend them to be reading?

You know, I have to tell you that I'm really impressed with with everything that Ray Dalio said principles is incredible. He's got a children's book, but I just got to it's a cocktail book, I would actually recommend anybody who wants to look at principles that has limited bandwidth, like most of us do start with a children's book, honestly, it sounds crazy, but he lays it out in such a beautiful way. I'm a huge fan of Michael singer. I believe that that his approach to mindfulness and to dealing with the create the things that go on those voices in our head, being able to help people understand that that doesn't make them crazy. It makes them human and And get rid of a lot of the judgments associated with that is incredibly liberating. And I think part of being an entrepreneur, a successful entrepreneur, is learning how to be a successful human. And being self a human is starting to see the world truthfully and honestly and lovingly. And I think he does a really beautiful job of sharing that. The other one that I'm really a huge fan of, and of course, I just actually heard that Tim Ferriss was was promoting it in one of his recent podcasts, and he was saying it was one of those important books to read and it's in the one I just recently went back to it for 20 years and that's awareness by Anthony de Mello who is a life changing book if there ever has been one but then you can obviously go back to you know, the thinking go riches in the curvature, peace of mind and all those those books those are foundational there at the you cannot you cannot go from you can't I don't think you can exist in this in the entrepreneurial sphere without exposing yourself to Napoleon Hill because that's the bedrock upon which all of the other great thinkers in the space Tony Robbins and all those other guys are built upon. But But I really do think that this is an inside job. And and the best thing you can do is just never stopped reading. Because what you'll The more you read, you know you you follow the influences of the people who are who got got you know Tony Robbins, you trick it all the way back all comes back down to the new thought practitioners back in the back in the day, you know Ernest Holmes and all of this. There's a very common all of these things have a common denominator and so if you're a secret you'll find that right. But I would I would say that you just go to the go back to the basics and but Ray Dalio in terms of current current stuff, right there is absolutely at the top of my list,

CK LIN 1:03:32
actually a very tactical question I want to ask you. Whenever I talk to entrepreneurs, they have tons of ideas in their mind. Right new shiny objects, new business to start or some projects within their current business. Do you have a way to help them narrow it down to the most important thing?

Yes, I do. Actually. That's a really good question because I just had I just thought about this. I I look At first, I have a new either new business file, I use Evernote pretty religiously, because it's just if you ever getting things done by David Allen fantastic guidebook for people who have a lot of ideas, a lot going on. And Evernote is my is my dumping ground. And so the other day I was, I was I was thinking about how, how do I filter out got all of this all these opportunities? And what are most precious commodity is our attention, right? It really truly is, wherever we dedicate our attention is going to be that's that's something that we have a very limited amount of. And if we're dedicated for something meaningful, then we're going to receive meaningful results, potentially. And if you if not, then then then it's up to the to the rest of the universe. So I start to say, Well, how do I filter that out? And so I start looking at, I only get involved in businesses where there's some sort of like a triple bottom line where there's truly a benefit to everybody involved, right? I don't want to see any anybody being disenfranchises in In an effort to accomplish the goals of the business, right, so, and, and so, you know, I want to see a true, you know, win win situation, I believe the philosophy that I subscribe to is doing well, by doing good, while while having a great time doing it. So that's the first thing, the second filter, right? So now that that brings that, that eliminates a lot of times, right? That then the next filter is where can I add true value? authentic value here, from my own personal experience in a unique way, right. So Where, where, where in my life Do I can have I have I got an actual way for me to look at the situation and truly add value in a unique authentic way. And and so that narrows it dramatically, right? But if you're willing to go to a place where you see that there is pain in your life, that you've been able to where there's been something where you're uniquely qualified to add value, that's where I would start, right. And so for me, it's like, you know, suicide is a big deal, right? So, so, so I've been a student of those kinds of thought, but addiction actually came out of that. And so I I'm heavily involved in the addiction space, because I had some I had a nice wrestling match with alcohol for about 20 years. And so I look at food is also a big thing for me because and I'll be doing some food businesses in the future along the lines of you know, in the, in the low glycemic space because I wasn't able to eat sugar based foods for for a number of years because of the antibiotics, my disease from wiping up the floor, and obviously the mold thing, right. So everything that I've that I'm interested in, for me, the way it works for me is it has to be has to feel it has to check all those boxes. And it has to come from a place of true authenticity because otherwise, you know, you can hire anybody for this or you can go you know, does that make sense? I'm not going to do it just for the sake of doing widgets, if that makes any sense. And I think that that's the mining you have to be able to look at your life and see where where you've got the bumps and bruises. We talked about it a little bit the other day but the idea of you know the Japanese have this this this method of repairing broken ceramics and broke broken pottery where they instead of trying to repair it like we wouldn't in the west where we try to fix all the cracks that they would be in perceptible, rather, they enhance them and they put gold and silver powder on those tracks, and then put them on the shelf for display, which is where I think that we could have, we could learn a few things from them on because at the end of the day, it's your cracks. It's where your broken the beauty is, it's where you're broken, that makes you unique. And just like a broken that's broken is stronger in that place than it is anywhere else in the world. is a welder stronger than its than its native metal. You know, the same thing goes for us. And so I'm a big fan of celebrating people's wounds. Because it's it's from those wounds that you have perspective and strength and uniqueness. And that's worth celebrating.

CK LIN 1:07:50
Hmm, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I mean, we cover a lot of grounds in this podcast and a shorter amount of time. You did not disappoint. Thank you so much. If there's one thing that they will do that you based on your recommendation? What's that one thing that they should be doing? out of everything that we talked

about gonna be the most annoying thing because everyone says it meditate. There's a fight find a way to cultivate mindfulness. As a and real meditate you and you can do your headspace and unless that's it, that's it. That's the way that's the gateway to the real meditation, but get comfortable with silence. Get comfortable with the discomfort. And meditation is the way for you to start to separate the voices in your head. Meditation is the way for you to start to disconnect from this idea that my thoughts are me. And more importantly, meditation starts to get you to the point where you can see impulses come and you don't grab them. You can see things come along your way and not not be moved by them. And that's what an entrepreneur needs to be able to go back to your question about distractions and how you do you meditating while you start to realize or meditating consistently. You start to realize that not every shiny object needs to be responded to That's the same as the same thing, when entrepreneurs have all these ideas coming, you keep a file for that stuff. And if it doesn't mean that any any of those those things that I mentioned, then maybe it isn't for you, if you're a purpose driven entrepreneur, discard the shiny stuff, if your buddy wants to get involved in something that that's maybe a little bit off kilter, it may be fun and exciting, but maybe it's pushing the wrong button inside. So meditation will give you the freedom that space between that I seek the space between there's a quote on my wall, I'll leave you with this. It says in between stimulus and response, there is a space and then that space allows your power, freedom and choice. And that to me is the most powerful thing I have that on my Why look at that every single day. So cultivating that space between the thought and the impulse, the the thought and the words the thought and the action. And the the fastest way to do that is through a mindful through through conscious attention to being present for meditation.

CK LIN 1:09:56
So appreciate you my friend. So many Things I can follow up and we can get go even deeper. Hopefully we can do another part two separate things. But again, I want to respect your time with your family. So we'll just wrap here. Thank you Jason, for sharing your wisdom sharing your tactics. Share your framework, share your story so inspiring. I look forward to getting to know you a little bit more.

Absolutely. Next Next time I'm out in LA I'll definitely pin ya obviously next time you're in the Big Apple. You do the same