Feb. 20, 2020

050 Philip Folsom: The Time of The Lone Wolf Is Over

Today’s guest is Philip Folsom, he an anthropologist, culture development expert, veteran, and CEO of Wolf Tribe. We covered many topics in the next 90 minutes: From his origin story of overcoming his own wounds and addictions to discovering his...

Today’s guest is Philip Folsom, he an anthropologist, culture development expert, veteran,
and CEO of Wolf Tribe.

We covered many topics in the next 90 minutes:

  • From his origin story of overcoming his own wounds and addictions to discovering his unique path and gifts to share with individuals and companies.
  • We talked about the difference between legit and illegitimate suffering
  • We talked about the seasonability of our lives; when to expand opportunities/learnings and when to limit opportunities/people/learnings
  • We talked about the difference between being a prince who is all about self-serving and being a king who is all about other serving
  • We talked about how to hire A-players based on competency and warmth
  • Finally, we also talked about the 3 master maps Philip has collected to help him guide individuals and companies to navigate their hero’s journey.

I hope you guys love this conversation as much as I did. Philip is one of the most grounded guides in the southern California area.


if your branches reach to heaven than your roots reach to hell.

Growth always starts from a self serving place.

Really ask yourself, you know, do you have a purpose? Are you special? Do you have a unique thing? Somewhere inside you have to say yes.

Resistance is the source of suffering.

A lot of my personal work is removing the illegitimate suffering.

Culturally, the world mirrors the same thing as our individual journey. Like our corporations are just a collective of the dysfunction of our individual journeys.

When we’re in the process of gathering, you’re gathering people, inspiration, ideas, opportunities. And I equate that to hunting. I need to open my aperture so that I can start gathering more opportunities and more perspectives, and more opportunities for growth and transformation. When we are in the process oof focusing, you are subtracting , getting rid of your variables, and shutting down all these browser windows, so that I can get all my ram on a singular point. It is saying no to 10 different projects that I’m trying to do all at once.

A prince is somebody whose needs come first. And a king is somebody who the kingdom comes first.

 I grow in the morning. I serve the rest of the day.


  • Iron John - Robert Bly
  • King, Warrior, Magician, Lover: Rediscovering the Archetypes of the Mature Masculine by Robert Moore and Douglas Gillette
  • Power of Myth - Joseph Campell
  • Women Who Run with the Wolves: Myths and Stories of the Wild Woman Archetype by by Clarissa Pinkola Estes



Philip Folsom is an anthropologist, culture development expert, veteran,
 and CEO of Wolf Tribe. He is also the Co-Founder of Valor, a resiliency program for Warriors and First Responders.

Philip is known for his unique Tribework program that focuses on the primary culture components of building healthy and high performing teams.

His clients include organizations such as Microsoft, Apple and Space X and major universities worldwide where he conducts innovative adventure programming such as vision quests, caving, high ropes challenge courses, Zen archery, and interactive workshops with wolves.

Philip has sat on numerous boards including Red Bull’s High-Performance Department. His work is regularly featured on television and podcasts. Philip works regularly with groups from USC and is a regular contributor to Marshall School of Business, including the Masters of Business for Veterans program. He lives with his wife, daughter, and black lab in Venice Beach, California




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CK LIN 0:00
My name is CK LIN. Welcome to NobleWarrior. This is the place where we talk about what it takes to be purpose-driven entrepreneurs, start purpose-driven organizations, and help you optimize your entrepreneurial journey. Today's guest is Philip Folsom. He's an anthropologist, culture development expert, veteran, and CEO of WolfTribe. We cover many topics in the next 90 minutes from his origin story of overcoming his own wounds and addictions to discovering his unique path and gifts to share with individuals and companies. We talked about the difference between legit and legitimate suffering. We talked about the seasonality of our lives, when to expand opportunities and learnings and when to limit opportunities and learnings. We talked about the difference between being a prince who's all about self-serving and being a king, who's all about other-serving. We talked about how to hire A players based on competency and warmth. Finally, we talked about the three master maps Philip has collected over the years to help guide individuals and companies to navigate their hero's journey.

I'm really excited today to have my friend Philip Folsom, President and CEO of the Folsom program and Wolf tribe. Yep, he's anthropologist, he helps companies really enhance their corporate culture, as well as individual culture. And it's one of those things I'm really excited to actually dropping with Phillip, thanks so much for being on the show, Phillip. So why don't actually start off just a little bit of your background. What got you to where you are today? Why did you choose to start WolfTribe and the Philip Folsom programs?

My origin story is this you know, the source of What I'm good at. And it's, it's the, it's the mine, that I dig for gold. And it's that's true for all of us is that. we have to be able to have gone into the woods, if we're going to be able to have pulled out any efficacy, skill set, perspective. Any of those, those pieces and Nietzsche said if your if your branches reach to heaven than your roots reach to hell, and those of us who have had some trauma in our backstory that has led us to whatever has driven us forward. And some of my very favorite people are drug addicts and combat veterans and people with checkered pasts. That's the, the shadow that Jung talks about that has to be integrated. And if we, if we don't understand the impact of that shadow, then we we end up just calling our life fate. And it's, it's not like we are. We are not just a passenger on this vehicle that's been traveling forward in many ways, we're actually shaping our reality by the, by the habits that we have established, and our personal habits, the collection of those is a nice definition of character is all of our, you know, aggregate of our personal habits. And our collective habits as a group of people can be defined as our culture. And so my my work is to be able to illuminate What individual habits people have, and then be able to get some access to what is and then have a vision journey about what's available what we want, and then find a way to connect those that line. And so my larger perspective on that was I grew up poor. I grew up. You know, without a dad, I grew up without any guidance. And so I settled back to my path of least resistance, which is going to be true for any animal, we will always take the path of least resistance. And so when we look at the habits that we've all established, those habits are not built for growth. They're not built for idealism, or for service or for anything. It's uplifting habits are only defined by is it efficient. That's why habits exist. And so there's a large distinction between habits which are automatic and efficient, and then practices, which are intentional and always hard. And so the ability to recognize what we're doing from a purely limbic animal perspective, and then realize we can, we can do more, we're also divine in the sense that we have free will. And, and that access to choice is really a function of awareness. So what you and I both do is we level up our awareness of the people around us, which then opens the door to being to intentional behavior. And that's true on an individual level, which is leadership or an a collective level which is culture development. And that's really what I do. So my, my, my journey from dysfunction and poverty and addiction led me to a lot of. It was survival. You know, my growth process was a survival mechanism, I had to, at some point get sober. And at some point I had to start addressing my, my isolation issues and a whole slew of other maladaptive kind of, you know, character flaws. And so what I discovered on that path was, you know, the modalities that I use now with my clients, and that's Zen archery and vision quests and programs with horses and wolves, outdoor adventure activities, like you know, rappelling and climbing and other other things that were effective for me.

Those were you know, and this growth always starts from a self serving place that it needs to, at some point, heal ourselves and the transition that the transition from healing ourselves which is an adolescent psychology to needing to heal others, that's a mature psychology and it's the difference between a prince and a king. princes need things for themselves. And in the case of social media now is I need followers, I need attention, I need validation, I need permission. And that's all an absolutely vital phase that humans all go through. I need immediate success. I need my hit my bottom line, I need money and like there's a lot of stuff that has to happen. Maslow would call that your your basic needs. And if you don't address those basic needs, then you don't get to play the next echelon of behavior, which is ultimately, the ability to move towards a self actualization or the ability to serve others. So, when I started leveling up my own journey, my own self

One of the pieces of absolute indispensable gold that I discovered is that I wasn't the only one. I wasn't the one that I wasn't the only one that had insecurities and felt inadequate, and I was afraid. And that is a universal condition. And I was hiding it. And I was afraid of terrified of being found out that people were going to see me as inadequate, which is kind of the definition of shame therapeutically. And so when I realized that humanity was struggling with all these issues, and it wasn't just me that that was a game changing.

CK LIN 8:59
How long ago was this?

That was probably 30 years ago. And and so I eventually got dropped into a leadership industry because it was a way for me to continue my own personal growth, while at the same time making a living and moving into providing some sort of service. And I wouldn't have called it that at that point. It was the fact that if I was able to guide people on trips, if I was able to be a facilitator on a ropes course, if I was able to work in this field, then I could continue healing myself and leveling my operating system up so that I was a functional human. But at the same time, I was realizing now that I can, I can actually provide value to the world. And that wasn't something that was even on my radar as a young man. And I think it's

CK LIN 9:55
was there a singular moment where you felt like wow, this is something that I'm really good at. This is something that's very valuable to my prospective clients. was there a moment?

That's a good question. Was there ever a moment I? This sounds kind of Messianic

CK LIN 10:15
what does that mean?

messianic means the like a Messiah, somebody who could who could save the world. I've always known that I had a destiny. And it was that was a secret thing, because I do be able to say that in the world, and I even apologize for it right now, when I said this sounds, you know that that is a preemptive strike to say, Please don't judge me for having a purpose, having a destiny. But I've always known it and I think if anybody listening now, really ask yourself, you know, do you have a purpose? Are you special? Do you have a unique thing? Somewhere inside you have to say yes. That's my belief. And I, most people that I find if they really rummage around, when, when they were a young man or young woman, there was a period of time where you knew you were special, and you knew you're being carried, and you knew you had a purpose.

CK LIN 11:19
So let me actually ask you a little bit deeper on that. No, because let's say part of the human development journey, is you need to face your shadow, your demon, whatever you call it, that even in spite of those moments, you still felt that that, hey, I have something to offer. I have something to give you those times.

And I knew that I that I was being carried. And I've always known that. And most of the time we it's very hard to see that in the moment. Like we we look back at experiences and areas of our life and With the, the 2020 vision of reflection, we're able to see how the, the path that we're on was perfect. And, and it has been, it really has been a divine, divinely guided journey for me of meeting the right people of being destroyed periodically, which is what we all have to do if we're going to ever if we're going to level up and and that's an ongoing, that's an ongoing piece. There are pieces of us that have to die over and over and over so that the new version is created. And that's never fun. And you and when I was younger man, the those you know and Joseph Campbell says that without crucifixion, there is no resurrection. So we have to die. The Phoenix has to burn. When you don't see that repeated pattern, and we don't have an understanding of the mythological hero's journey of those endless deaths, then they feel like literal deaths. And they're overwhelming. And we, we feel that there's a fatality involved. And one of the big things that I offer clients and has been invaluable myself is that I now know the inescapable sequential cycle of the hero's journey. And I know what comes after it, I know there is a rebirth. And so now I'm more I'm more easily able to surrender into the shadow and not resist it. Resistance is the source of suffering. And if we don't have judgment about that, the depth that we're in the middle of then it just clean, it just pain. It's uncomfortable. it's hard, but it's clean. And the Buddhists would call that legitimate suffering. The world is filled with legitimate suffering. It's the illegitimate suffering, which is the stuff we bring on ourselves.

CK LIN 13:49
And I shouldn't be here. I'm going through this dark night of the soul. Yeah, this is terrible. Let me get out as soon as possible.

And then let me do a bunch of maladaptive things to try to numb my journey. So I'm going to drink and eat ice cream and watch porn and like all of these attempt to numb our, our, our journey through the Abyss are the things that caused us ultimately way more suffering. And the Buddhists call it illegitimate suffering. So a lot of my personal work is removing the illegitimate suffering and that comes from exploring what are my habits? And how do I create practices that are more resilient and more altruistic and aspirational and get me through the transformation that I am ultimately going to have to go through.

CK LIN 15:15
So let me actually pause on that just for a moment because let's say someone who's going through the dark night of the soul right now, they're in the legitimate suffering phase. And they maybe they're a little lost. Maybe they are using these mechanisms, these numbing mechanisms, the porn, the Netflix, the chocolate, the ice cream, all that stuff, the eating the drinking everything, right. What would you say to them? Hey, this is normal, and what should they do?

Yeah. The big one, and I'm going to quote one of my really good friends, Joshua winner, and he's does great grief processing and trauma work. And he kind of breaks down the analogy of when we're going through those painful things. Sometimes they're small, they're small little transitions, that once we go through, they leave no mark. And then you have big transitions which leave a scar. And that scar will be with you the rest of your life.

CK LIN 16:17
Like what?

if it was a bad, really bad relationship? Sure, yeah, it could be a lawsuit. It could be, you know, some betrayal. Like there's some stuff that is going to leave a scar forever. And we have to acknowledge that instead of having now if we judge that scar, now, look at me this big scar, how embarrassing. I'm less than that. That's shame. And shame is interpersonal it means you see my scar and now you think that I'm less than or inadequate or somehow weak or failure, and that shame is something that I cannot discharge unless I can be open and transparent with you. And, and then have you hear my story, which dissolves my shame, particularly when you say me too. I also have a scar. Now all of a sudden, we've healed each other. And then there's the big wounds, these are amputations, and they do not heal.

CK LIN 17:32
Like what?

For me growing up for that may be something that is it, you know, and I and I quit all the things I started when I was young man. I was a failure. You know, I'm making air quotes right now that was a failure. These things are echoes. With me the rest I will always have that limp which means I will never be enough. It doesn't matter how much I achieve in this life. And it doesn't matter how many vehicles I have, how nice of a house I have, how much validation I receive of what a powerful, successful important man you are Philip, that's never going to be enough for me. So that's an amputation. That's what they call a core wound, and it's not going away. So, a lot of our or my, my response to that initially was, I want to hide that I didn't want you to see that amputation or that deep scar.

And the truth of that amputation is that that's the source of all of my genius. It's the source of all of my gold, right? And it's also the source of my undoing, if I don't honor it. Try to shove it in the in the closet, but I try to keep it in the dark. Then what happens is I'm going to step on it at night. It's going to come out at some point and Freud has a theory of hydraulics which means everything you you don't express everything you've forced down is coming squirting out and some high pressure, maladaptive, dysfunctional way.

CK LIN 19:25
It's like a beach ball. You try to just press the beach ball yet all your might. Once you don't pay attention to it, it's gonna come out somewhere, or it blows up.

Yeah. So with with a lot of our shadow week, we can honor it, we can get it that's if you've ever read i'm john. This is one of the classic books of at the very core of traditional men's work, iron john by Robert Bly. And the subtitle is a book about men.

So the the core wound Is the wild man in many ways, it's your authenticity. It's your truth. It's your it's your darkness. It's your untamed, slightly embarrassing, but incredibly powerful thing. And I need to have that in front of me. I need to have it sitting next to me all the time. And I so I, I make a seat at the table for my wounded my shadow and my, my amputation and my wild man. I want those all to be part of my journey as opposed to trying to hide and dismiss and, and rise above good, it's not going away. And most of our pain, particularly in the culture, we live now with chronic stress and and overwhelm and we're embedded in a pride based culture which is not making us very happy. That's not going away. So we need to learn to love it and be gentle with it and use it and honor it and that's, that's a big portion of kind of my core wound pieces is and I do I feel an inadequate lot of the time. But what that does is it gets me to the gym, it makes me want to serve. It allows me the empathy to connect with other people who have that same core wound. And I'm going to propose it everyone listening has that has that pain of I'm not enough. And the impact of the word compassion means to suffer with. passion is is not just excitement, passion is to suffer. Like the Passion of the Christ is the crucifixion. So, Compassion is the ability to suffer with another person. And so understanding and making peace and integrating my shadow, and that's an on, I'm not done with that.

CK LIN 22:10
It's a human journey. You're not you're never done correct until you breathe your last breath

and it will happen. I will be going through another cycle at some point. Yeah. And that continues.

CK LIN 22:22
Thanks for sharing that. So just a little quick recap. So, for those of you listening, what Phillip said it was very, very profound. And then I want to underline some of the things that he said. So that for the smaller ones, make sure you have your, your daily rituals that energizes you, right? Make sure that you can actually function in spite of going through a dark night of the soul phase. But for the core ones, make sure that that's not something that you suppress you hide, you neglect, that that has a seat at the table because as you said so beautifully and that's actually one thing that I teach as well as that your superpower comes from your biggest wound and be cognizant of that, and not so much putting in the backseat and then suppress it. I do want to ask you about that though, because there's a phrase that we hear a lot too is what you focus on expands what I am hearing you say is not to focus on their core won't rather just be cognizant as their Yeah. Now you don't ignore Is that correct?

therapeutically, they say move from cure to care. There are some things you're not going to cure. There there. And so for a lot of us, it's a father wound, or it's a poverty wound more it's, you know, any number of things. And until we have achieved some enlightened state, right, and to enlighten is to put light. Oh yeah, to illuminate. And usually just the act of illuminating something takes its power away. And I I love the analogy of when you see a horror movies like The scary movies, they they don't show you the monster.

CK LIN 24:16
Do you still watch horror movies?

Not a lot. I don't watch a lot of movies in general. They intentionally don't show you the monster because it's not scary once you've seen it. That's the illumination process. When you hear the monster when you just hear its footsteps, or you hear the claws going across the wall in the dark down in this down the stairs. That's what gives you the sense of dread. It's crippling, it's horrific. But in the movie at some point, you see the monster and initially it's quite shocking. You go huh? It has teeth and claws, and it's the disfigured and how terrifying and then very quickly it immediately goes to well if I had an axe Yeah, and why don't you just shoot it and then once you shot it take its head off you know and it's no longer scary it's still a monster but it's then it's like now I get to engage with I know how to beat it and mythology doesn't exist to teach us that there are monsters we know there are monsters mythology exists to teach us that the monsters can be beaten. And so, whatever the story is that inspires you and makes sense for you at the core of it is the fact that we can beat the monsters.

CK LIN 25:44
So let me actually let me ask you this so is the mental model in your mind to combat it, to beat it to conquer the the demons the wounds the monsters

It's just to illuminate it.

CK LIN 25:58
I just want to underline it. Yeah. Because that's actually something that when I talk to people, they are dealing with some kind of inner shame or guilt or demon or the past the sordid past that they're not so proud of. And that's the thing that we try to do instead of just illuminated, they will want to beat it and trying to force kind of like make it into a adversarial relationship. in my mind's not so productive. now you're just putting more energy into something that's not necessarily helpful.

So what's better? What is better than killing your dragon?

CK LIN 26:37
In my mind? Yeah, in my mind integration, because it has

in the story, if you're the hero, and there's this just just terrifying, powerful dragon. At what's better than actually killing the dragon.

CK LIN 26:53
Tame it. Yeah. So you can actually use it.

ride that motherfucker. Right right now all of a sudden. You are in charge of this incredible base that can burn down cast like you are now. The Dragon Lord, right. So killing the dragon you know that that's that's kind of an old school approach to locking down your you cage your addictions and you know, limit and control and master that use your willpower to do all that right Yeah, well willpower doesn't work. So I'm I'm writing my dragons so when I say you know I'm an addict I just very careful about what I where I point my addictions because I'm going to be an addict till I die. I just don't want I want to make sure that and it still creeps in I had a conversation with my family last night about social media and and you know and I do need to be on social Media there are a lot of clients that don't even email me or call me. They just look me up on social media and send me a message. I'm like, okay, that's how I guess we're communicating now. So I need to be relevant and engaged in the world. But now all of a sudden, I'm in the pit with the dragons.

CK LIN 28:22
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And so you know, it will forever for you know, for me, be a struggle with my addictions. And then social media is one of those where not only is there and it's built to drive addiction, it's a dope umaine delivery system. So it, it's basically just like having a cigarette every time you open Instagram that little like or follow or comment that's a literal dopamine hit that is the same thing that you get when you're on heroin. It's exactly your brain thinks but exactly the same. And so, for me and for a lot of the people who are dealing with inadequacy issues, it's a that's a double whammy. It's a two headed Hydra because you're addicted. And then you're getting external validation. Whoo.

CK LIN 29:34
So okay, so someone who's dealing with this, they are aware that I am now addicted to social media. I look at my Facebook follower counts I, but then they can rationalize more. This is what I do. I'm a musician. I'm an artist. I'm a philosopher, I'm a consultant and I need to be aware of this. How do you suggest that they can use it in a way that's Useful for them

Yeah. Again, the illuminate that illumination process of, you know, utilize your FaceTime, count your screentime counters, be aware of staying off of the the main news feed, curate your content contact list. Don't just say yes to everybody. Like there's a lot of ways that you can train the dragon and take advantage of all of them.

CK LIN 30:31
So segue a little bit about this whole world of suffering. One of the insights that I have personally from plant medicine ceremonies is that I'm actually a little bit addicted to suffering. And, in my mind I rationalize, well, you know, I like it because on the other side of suffering is growth. But at the same time, I am aware that my being addicted to constantly "suffering". I just don't live a good life. You know what I mean? So how do you actually balance the Yes, being aware of the legitimate suffering and not to dwell in the illegitimate suffering. At the same time, you don't actually go out and look for more suffering opportunities? Yeah. Anything you want to say about that?

The Hero's Journey cycle requires us to go back home again. And I see a lot of, not just young people, but going young people who have been the cut their teeth are been immersed in personal growth. And the function of personal growth, which is intentional suffering is to again, illuminate the shadow, explore the pain, transform yourself. There's a whole bunch of pieces for that. But it's not designed to be a way of life. It's designed to be A transition to come back home again. Like we have to go through that dark koifish, which is chaos and the unknown. It's a that's part of transformation. But we're designed to go back to the white koifish which is structure and control and bringing, bringing the lessons back home again. And so at some point we need to go back to that place where there is structure and there is growth and there is integration. That's probably the key word is unless it's being integrated, then it's almost inauthentic. And a lot of a lot of the men's work field, this is people who are addicted to personal growth. Keep going back into rehab. They are addicted to being in chaos, they're addicted to that.

And returning back home again, has its own threshold to cross. And each time we cross a threshold into a new phase, there is a threshold guardian. This is one of those mythological terms that there's something there to stop us from going home, and something that is stopping us from leaving home. And so for many people who are addicted to suffering or addicted to endless personal growth workshops, the the threshold Guardian might be what, what do I have now have to do? What is my duty? And a lot of times we don't want to pick up that that rock of duty and service and integration back into our communities and our families and our careers. I'd rather stay in that chaotic place where it's, it's almost academic, it's experiential, it's not real. It has not been integrated and tested in the real world.

CK LIN 34:11
it as in what?

The learning, the growth, the transformation, all of that work that we're doing needs to then at some point land in the real world where it's making a company better making a community better or my family is more vital and functional, my bank account is higher, I'm physically healthier, and I'm having a better relationship with my wife. Like it needs to actually land in the real world. Otherwise, you're just an academic just masturbating endlessly. Like at some point, you need to go back and land it in the real world. And there's, there is a reality to that of what if it didn't work? What if it's not real. And there's a there's a whole industry of self serving industry of people who are validating each other to stay in that cycle of endless healing. That is their wound. Yep. To endlessly heal. Is your wound? Well, you've now confused, illegitimate suffering with just suffering. Right? You know, just go back and have some clean suffering, right and do the things you have to do.

CK LIN 35:27
Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I that I share to my audience is that definitely heal and heal enough such that your mobility, once your mobility, once you're unstuck, then bring into your life into your business into relationship. It's not the let me heal to the nth degree to the end because you never find the end. You can always keep pulling, there's always more thing to heal at the same time is just heal enough where you have mobility and then you can just bring out to the world into your world. Right?

So I wanted to actually segue a little bit to the corporate work that you do. Because one thing that I that I see is for the founders, business owners who are addicted to the suffering part. They always want to essentially, yeah, my business is doing really great, but let me go find something and then fuck it up. So then I can actually go back to the suffering part again. So say a little bit more about how do you actually bring awareness to founders, entrepreneurs, business owners who may or may not be aware, this is something that they are dealing with and then now they're bringing into their corporate culture. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Couple things. Culturally, the world mirrors the same thing as our individual journey. Like our corporations are just a collective of the dysfunction of our individual journeys.

And so that has paralleled my awareness of everybody is got these big challenges everyone humanity does. So don't feel bad if you have not answered the call, we all refuse the call. And that's why it's built into the the hero's journey, mythological cycle that every single hero refuses and they they reject all of those calls to adventure. And that exists in the story cycle to absolve us of the guilt and the shame that we're not doing we need to be doing. So that's universal. And when I when I started moving into the leadership world, in a professional capacity, and I get to work with all of the dream companies you'd like to work with, like I mean, I work at Red Bull with Apple with SpaceX with you know, Fox. I work with the kind of who's who of people. And they are also saddled with the same exact things that every other industry is.

CK LIN 38:21
You mean so the romantic idea that all these fortune 500 fortune 1000 companies have it all got together

If I could just make it to Snapchat. I can just get into you know, you fill in the blank. I will arrived at Ghandour which is the castle on the hill where everybody's beautiful

CK LIN 38:42
happily ever after. No one has any problems.

And they are healthy and aspirational and no, yeah, this not Yeah. And if you again, at some point, if you're either lucky or unlucky enough to meet very, very wealthy people, they're less happy than a lot of other people. And then same thing with famous people. Well, they're just people who have the same. Same You know, there is no magic bullet for humanity.

CK LIN 39:15
You mean there no arrival?

Yeah, there's no I, you know, I finally you know, entered Nirvana. So, that was a very healing awareness for me. Because it makes you now sorry, what? Okay, so I'm not getting out of this. Now I get to deal with that this actual thing. And this is true for all of our careers and our personal journeys. And if, if you think that when Once you've made your money or gotten your fame, or arrived at your career, that you will have made it that's this the beginning. The journey continues, that endless heroic cycle. So the gift that's a good piece, and there are many individual business leaders and corporations that are stuck in the paralysis of they can't change, they won't change. So they're in that top of the hero's journey cycle, which I would call the white koifish of, of mastery and structure, that they're so rigid and so locked in, they can't move. And they need to go on their journey. They need to be broken, and they need to burn to death. They need to go have some large transitions. So what do you do them help them what yeah, those are, those are ones that are they're tough. You have to kind of baby step them in and there's a wonderful Roman quote that says "fate guides, those who will and those who won't she drags"

CK LIN 40:52
So whether you like it or not, you're coming

Yeah. And so that there are people who are you know, power players who have got a measure of success, and you will fight to keep that success. And in many ways, being successful is in some ways kind of a curse because it stops the growth process.

CK LIN 41:15
Right, and the burden on the success, as they say,

not sustainable. And what what, there's a fluidity to sustainable ongoing growth. Because you acknowledge that I have to go into the unknown, I have to suffer, and then I have to come back home again and integrate, and then have to be mindful and vigilant about getting paralyzed in that because I have to do it again. And that cycle is never ending. Ideally, it is an upward cycle, so that it's going quicker and easier and less painful.

CK LIN 41:57
Actually, can you differentiate the downward Then upward. What do you mean by that?

I'm in my mind, I'm looking at the yin/yang, the duality to 5000 year old, you know, Asian symbol of duality, like all things will be structured into a duality system. And the white koifish on top is the known world. Its mastery and its structure and it's the known. And then the dark koifish is that swirl on the bottom, which is the unknown, it's mystical, it's magical. It's chaos. It's feminine. So, structure and control is traditionally very masculine. Like we want to conquer. And we want to build and we want to solidify. and feminine, wants to dissolve. It wants to transform that wants to cycle like this. And we need both. They both work together.

CK LIN 43:14
And by the way, just so that the audience is aware, you're not talking about gender, right? You're talking about energetics.

Exactly. Yeah. It shows up in gender. Right. I mean, traditionally, you know, we will see that through. You know, in different industries, there are certain industries that are very masculine, and they attract men. Engineering, for example, engineering is everything that we talked about in that white core fish, its structure, its control, its limit variables. It's, you know, all those pieces. And then you get in you look at some of the industries, a lot of healthcare, a lot of therapeutics, a lot of teaching that is inherently and that women dominate those fields. And they're all about change and growth and transformation and humanity and accepting the variables that are inherent in our journey. So yes, it is an energetic variable but expressed through our society in many different ways, which can be gender related as well. Hmm. I'm not afraid to go in there in that in that position.

CK LIN 44:31
Yes, perfect. So okay, so you you help the leaders understand that this is a constant cycle. You help them understand that hey, if you're stagnant. There's no use to try to strongman and can trying to control everything. So then, tactically, how do you introduce the idea of baby steps, right. So what are some of the baby steps you help them with

I have a pretty broad arsenal of tools to be able to take people through a process. And one of them and this is one of the core lessons that I will do with Zen archery and Zen Archer is in 1000 year old system of using using archery as a means of exploring this same cycle. And in the heart of Zen archery is the distinction between concentration and focus. And concentration is the act of gathering. It's, it's chaos. You are when when we're in the process of, of gathering, you will part of the thing you're gathering is inherently variables. You're gathering people, inspiration, ideas, opportunities. And I equate that to hunting. This is what you're doing when, like, when things are becoming somewhat limited, and I'm being paralyzed, and I feel like I can't move. And I'm being marginalized, I need to open my aperture so that I can start gathering more opportunities and more perspectives, and more opportunities for growth and transformation, all of that stuff has to happen.

Focus is subtractive it means I'm getting rid of my variables. I mean, I'm shutting down all these browser windows, so that I can get all my ram on a singular point. It is saying no to 10 different projects that I'm trying to do all at once, and none of them are really moving because I'm spread so thin. Then it's time to focus and my jitsu coach, very succinctly said, "concentration is for hunting, and focus is for killing." And there are times for each one of those things. When we are in structure when we are in a place where we need to grow, open the aperture go hunting, there's some uncertainty in hunting, you actually have to look around at the different variable options and see what's out there. You're not targeting a single thing. When we are in that place, we're being overwhelmed by chaos when you're rounding in. In options, I'm not able to pick a single, committed course to move on. That's time to now move to focus, move, pick up, pick a single thing and and that will get you unstuck, it'll get you momentum, it'll get your results. And that's the killing portion.

CK LIN 48:06
I love that. That's a really beautiful mentor one of the easiest share so let me reiterate what you just said okay, I'm I'm that guy who's like let me that was really important. let me underline that. so if you're stagnant if you're stagnant you're cruising it's time to open more windows. So you can broaden get it actually get different perspectives. Yeah, right. Do an ayahuasca ceremony is an example of that, right? But then if you're overwhelmed, if you're spread too thin, it's time to close your windows and double down on one or two of the things so that you can go and kill Yep. Okay, great.

And back to your point of I'm stuck in sometimes in too much self created suffering. That means I'm I am I'm stuck in the chaos of hunting. i am endlessly hunting, and, and we can't hunt endlessly. We starve to death. At some point, we got to pick an animal and go kill it. Pick a pick a career, and commit to it, pick a partner and commit to it. Right? And, and I see a lot of people who are afraid to commit to because what if it doesn't work? Well, yeah. Then you go hunting again. But at some point, you have to take a shot at the end zone, at the elk at the paycheck at that partner. At some point you have to do that, which is inherently what a lot of people are afraid of. Number one, what if I succeed? Oh my god. Number two, what if I don't succeed? And then the more important one that most people don't even realize is, what is it going to require from me? Because we all know what is going to take to pull down that big elk and be successful, we all know. I mean, if you're in if you're a relevant person right now, you're swimming in personal growth, five lessons of success and get up early and don't eat this and network. I mean, we know we have to do. What is what is it going to take? It's going to take a bunch of you dying. And a lot of people aren't prepared to do that and primarily because they don't have a community then push them across the finish line.

CK LIN 50:41
Okay, so actually, I know this is a really important point. How do you what are some of the criteria that you advise your clients and people who are listening to this? What are your criteria for community?

Yeah. This is the root cause of most of our suffering today is the Lack of belonging, a lack of kinship, the lack of an intact community, we're in the same way that we are drowning in knowledge. We're drowning it. In fact, I would recommend most people stop reading. Stop going to workshops, stop it. Just I mean, you already have all the things you need to know. Just now integrate it, do the work. And and stop

CK LIN 51:30
You mean there's no magic solution to my problems

You already have the magic solution okay? Like you don't need somebody else's new list of five things to do. I mean, it just makes my eyes roll to hear a new personal growth person on the scene going, here's my three lessons of success. This will change your life and like the same thing that Aristotle said 2000 years ago. You know, like we just get real hashing the same thing over and over just not turning that knowledge into wisdom. The application of the integration of knowledge is, is wisdom. So in that same way we are drowning in connections, and Facebook, friends, and networking, but we don't have any quality. We don't have any kin, kinfolk. And my definition of that is kinship are the people that share three big things, okay. They share they in the corporate world, they will be called your your vision, which is why am I doing this job? Why am I in this industry? That's your that's the vision. They share your mission, which is what am I working on? And then you share collective corporate values, which is how we conduct the mission which moves us toward our vision. Okay, that's the corporate language that everybody's kind of familiar with. From a from a community standpoint, that vision is your purpose. And and again, way over utilize word I just saw you can roll your eyes a little

CK LIN 53:13
I am smiling. I love purpose. Let's talking about it

We all love purpose. It's a little overused these days, but it is, you know that big WHY that gets you up in the morning and it's the thing that defines us and back in previous arrows that that purpose was already established for you. You know, you didn't have to float for decades to find your purpose. Because when you are born into an established kinship system that's already established. Just as what are we working on? Like what is our tribe about? Like we we fish and we did these things or We fight wars, or we hunt, or we, we raise cattle like the Messiah like we know we do, right. And then we also are designed to be born into kinship systems where we have shared values, like, we, you know, we do this, we don't do this and that. And when you become a man, you get to play like a little boy until you hit that marker where all the other men take you out in the woods, and they kill you. They kill the boy in you. And that's the initiation process and you can't become a man until you die. And no matter how nihilistic you are, we cannot psychologically kill ourselves. Doesn't matter how many workshops you go to. our community are the people that push us across the finish line, to dying appropriately and being reborn.

So if you don't have that community that shares your, your purpose and your success and your values, like if you don't have that collection of people that are invested in you, because you are part of them. That's why they'll do it. It's not a matter of, I'm doing this because I'm being paid to, or I'm doing this because you're a good guy. I'm willing to do this because you're part of me. Like we're part of the same family, tribe, men's group like we, we are that thing. And that's the definition of heroism. heroism only exists in honor based cultures. And I would challenge anybody listening right now to think about a heroic act. It was done for the sake of other people, always. heroism is always done for the sake of Some people who are in our tribe, that's, that's why you run into the burning building. It's why you throw yourself on the grenade. It's why you do that altruistic thing. And, and so in our culture where we are in Los Angeles, here, we're 10 million chips of stained glass floating around. And we that's just garbage until it's put in a stained glass window. So what's the window? You know, who defines the window? Who, who puts those pieces together? And, and all of a sudden, when you know what your place is, in that beautiful church window, you have you have meaning, you have purpose. You understand that you're conveying something that's larger than yourself. And that's the big struggle today of of our species. It's causing All of our, all of our diseases come from isolation. And even when we look at Blue Zones, which is the communities, where globally people live the longest and has nothing to do with lifestyle has nothing to do with diet. It 100% it's about are they part of an intact community where they look at each other as extensions of themselves and in African the word is ubuntu, which is I am because we are, that that's the, that's the core operating system of our species. And yet, now we are, you know, forced into a lone wolf operating system where we have to go home to individually, our well being our careers, our purpose, our meaning, and it's almost unsustainable.

CK LIN 58:02
So tactically speaking, right, say someone who already know their purpose see someone who already know their values. And they may or may not. They're in the space of looking for the next mission, let's say, right. So tactically speaking, how would you advise them to find the community that they feel most resonant with?

Go where those people are. Where are those people living? What do they do? I don't mean living in terms of where the their addresses, what are they doing those people. And I would venture to say that, for example, in the men's field men's work field right now, when you're looking at honor based men, we're about growth and service. Their hands, they're only a few places those men congregate. Go to a jujitsu school, you will find those men. First Responders purpose driven Honor Code men are going to gravitate towards positions of service. And it won't be esoteric service. It's real service. It's not dark koifish I'm, I'm an activist on Instagram. You're not an activist. You're talking about being an activist. an activist is somebody who actually makes a sign and goes out and protests and even more so goes out and actually does the thing. That's an activist. So people who are claiming that they're warriors, and yet they're not putting themselves on the line. You're not a warrior. That's a misappropriation in the same way that you're not a showman. And to say that your wish to have people self proclaimed is I'm a shaman, and I'm a warrior. You don't really know what that means. Those are both very weighty titles. And I wouldn't I'm not proclaiming I'm either one of those, because I don't deserve it. I am not living the life of either one of those things.

CK LIN 1:00:27
How would you call yourself? If you have to label it, how'd you cal yourself?

I have been I think I'm a navigator. I navigatable navigate through their journeys, and I provide them maps and perspectives and a compass and tools. Maybe help them pick a star to navigate off of and give them some of the abilities to be able to do that skillfully. So I was a warrior in one point but the Warriors are the people who are putting themselves on the line for the sake of others. And, you know, every teacher in a tough neighborhood, you know, go to a school down of Compton. Those teachers are warriors. You know, cops are warriors. Those are the people who are the people who actually went to Standing Rock and got in front of the fire hoses in the middle of winter. That's a warrior. And if you're not doing that, if you're just attending endless workshops, to heal your shadows, your that's not the work that's that's that prepares you to actually go do the work. Right? If that is that is the dojo training, practice healing that prepares you to now really go on the quest. That but that's why we say we have to go home again. We at some point, we have to find out where all of our skills actually come into play in the real world. And then we discover Ooh, I actually didn't really have the things I needed. Now I go back to the dojo, I go back and do the healing, I go back and do the the Shadow Work where those things are, but I have to go out on the field again and find out where is it landing in the real world?

CK LIN 1:02:26
Hundred percent, I mean, the name of the podcast is called NobleWarrior. So this conversation definitely lands and to me my definition of a warrior, someone who conquers oneself, who brings that who illuminates the shadow within us such that we can be more effective in the world, a la externally, and for the people who are listening a lot of entrepreneurs. and to me, they're putting themselves on the line, to make the kind of impact they want to make, whatever their purpose may be, whatever their mission may be, whatever company services or products they do. And to me that's one is to be internally aware and another to be externally aware and actually put themselves on the line to create the kind of organization they want to go to propagate in the world.

Yeah. I use the word warrior a lot when dealing with the archetypes, and a warrior, somebody who is decisive. Somebody who's willing to take risks. Those are this is that's a warrior energetic, to warrior role. And so some of that is kind of a semantic piece. When I look at the self proclaimed like, there's a certain credibility of our warrior class people that are literally doing it. I see near the end, and I think that we diminish their sacrifice. When when we overuse warrior in the same way, when I see, you know, God bless you a lot of a young, young young men wearing, you know, ponchos who have done one iwoca journey and now they're showman. I go, you're your practitioner. There's a lot of other things. But I think that once I think that the term shaman is something you earn.

CK LIN 1:04:27
the connotation that comes with that word, the prestige, the training, the sacrifice that it requires. Warrior shaman, these type of things, from your point of view, holds a lot more importance than just the actual mechanics that you do. Is that correct?

Yeah. And honestly, I think that the same is true with the word father. Doesn't mean you made a kid. Have you know a father, it's got we can go all the way to man. There's a lot of biological You know, mature males that are not men. I think there's there, there, you know, boys masquerading as men?

CK LIN 1:05:10
Can you say a little bit more about them what it takes? Like, what's your definition of a quote unquote, man?

Yeah. I think a, the difference between a boy and a man is the difference between a prince and a king. Okay? And a prince is somebody whose needs come first. And a king is somebody who the kingdom comes first. Then they if once you have put something else above you, then you're a man and that is service. And, obviously, you need to conduct enough self care and enough healing and that you can continue to serve which is for Me Back to our initial conversation about growth and service. I spent most of my life in growth. And that is a very adolescent journey. And that's where I was. And there's no shame in that. Like, I encourage everyone to level up their own operating system and their own health and their resiliency and their knowledge. Like Yeah, as much as you can, but only because it now it provides a value of service and does something in the real world. And that, and that's what the king does. The king has taken all of those, that divinity that we're born with, and now is applying that divinity in the service of something else, whether it be people or a cause, or a company. And the best bosses are that they're the ones that aren't don't need the glory. They don't need the they they will shine light and bestow gold on everyone else, they will take the failures, they a mature man, a king will own the failures, but they will give the successes that sacrifice. Sacrifice is sacred. It's the divinity. That's the bridge between you know, the the Father and the Father and the Father, which is

CK LIN 1:07:30
so let me ask you this. So so for someone who is, let's say looking to join a company, looking for the next career path looking to find a investor. Is there any litmus test where you can easily tell someone who is more about themselves or more about being the king and actually be of service for anyone that you engage? Obviously, I'm not looking for a magic bullet but if you do have a magic bullet, please share with us

Yeah, you know, we always know from a limbic system, two things when you meet someone, and are they competent? And are they warm? And a warm, warm, meaning connected? are they safe, are they that's why I was so hot or cold, competent or incompetent, that we know that from using animal, you know, just an animal place. And some of it is maybe the way they they sit the way they dress the way the way they, I can't. There's a whole slew of things and most of it is under the hood, in terms of our mirror neurons, and that's why I say limbic system. If somebody is warm and incompetent, then they're kind of dismissible. If they're cold and incompetent, then it's repellent, if they're warm and competent, that's an ally. Right? And that's, that's the people you're looking for. Now, if they're cold and competent, that's somebody that's a threat.

So, when I guess when I first meet somebody, are they warm? Like, are they connected? Are they here? are they safe? Are you know, are they a human? And you know, you know that you when you when somebody makes you coffee at Starbucks, you know those two things, just by having five seconds with somebody who says Hello, can I take your order, you know if they're warm, and if they're competent or incompetent, and honestly the the my baristas who are warm and competent. I very regularly give them a business card. Like hey, if you want to do something else, a little bit, you know, more suitable for the skills that you've established in your life. Come talk to me. And I have a lot of young people that have that now work with me that are that. So when you're meeting somebody, that's a good place to start, is find the people who are warm and competent.

CK LIN 1:10:25
I love that. Thank you for that. So one of the things that impressed me most when I engage with a K for group as well as you personally is how much space you provide others to step up and then really shine your light. Can you share with us a little bit about if, at the end of your life, Philip falls in the fall and very rich and successful life? We look back on it. How would you measure your impact? Is there a specific metrics you're looking at?

That's a really good question. Well, Like legacy, okay, is that it? Is that kind of the legacy question?

CK LIN 1:11:09
No, not necessarily my like, what do you measure? So? Yeah, how would you like let's say you live a rich and fulfilling life. Right? And then before you breathe your last breath, what will have you go, Wow, what a life that I live.

I want to have moved our conversation forward. by a conversation I mean our human conversation. And I believe that I don't know who said it that we're the universe becoming aware. But that that's we are bringing self awareness into the universe. that's that the knot In a lot of our mythologies, it's permit this bringing the fire of the gods down to humans that that's the ability to intentionally engage with the world and get intentionally manipulate energy. And, and this is a brand new thing. So, we're no longer evolving physically, we don't have time. We, if we're going to save our asses, we're going to evolve culturally. And I would measure the success of my career and life: Did I promote, accelerate and shape this human journey?

CK LIN 1:12:48
Beautiful. Thank you so much. So that we have a few more minutes left. So I'd love to do a rapid fire question if you don't mind. So what are some of the things that you recommend people do in terms of their morning rituals in terms of their, hey, I'm on this journey human journey I'm going through wherever I'm going through whether it be the light side of the the the koifish, or the dark side, the koifish doesn't matter. And I'm intending to live a more meaningful and purposeful life, embrace all of it. Are there any specific morning rituals, evening rituals, books, anything like that, that you can share with us tactically so that way they can be inspired by your story, but also also go out and implement?

Yeah. Okay. I'll give you my I have a really tight morning ritual. Great. That off to you. I steal it and then I'll give you half a dozen books. Awesome. Let's kind of let's do that. That's what I can do this what I got for you. So I wake up every morning 530. I have to do all of my self care and development before the world has its way with me. Because the moment that I have interfaced my transmission with the world. I am now just a regular squirrel just chasing the chase and, and not. And so, for all of us, we need to do our own work in those quiet hours before you have to wake your kids up before you have to open your social media before you check your emails. Like before the world has its way with you. I love the way you phrase it before the world has its way with you. So I drink like a kind of this weird tonic thing in the morning which has which has tumeric for anti inflammation. It has apple cider vinegar for you know gut health as other stuff, right? You can email me for the recipe, and then I do bulletproof coffee. Then I do my mobility and stretching

CK LIN 1:14:53
Any specific type of stretching. Any specific movement?

I have A little sequence that works for me. I mean, it's probably a little chunk of yoga stuff that downward dogs and you know, some basic cat cow mobility stuff. Gotcha. I meditate for 23 minutes any specific kind of meditation. I do bear attention meditation, which is I count my breaths. And the count in your breath is the probably the, this weird, unique connection between your autonomic nervous system. We're not we haven't thought about our breath once in the last hour, and it just happens magically. But when you told me earlier, take a deep breath, I was able to now be conscious and be very intentional with my life. So the breath is a not only a practical, but also a philosophical bridge between what we would do automatically as an animal, and what we would do intentionally as a Divine Creature. So counting breaths is an access point for that division. And I am watching for the three things that will hijack me and create my reality, which are my thoughts, my sensations, and my emotions, those that's what creates the totality of a human life. And the moment I become identified by one of those things, then I become that thing. I become somebody who's having an emotion, I'm angry, or I'm insecure or I'm depressed. Or I'm somebody who is thinking about things what I have to do today and am I impressive in this podcast? Am I using it? Are the words too big? Am I speaking too fast? And then my sensations are I have to itch I have to fidget. My back hurts but these are what creates our reality and bear attention meditation is simply being vigilant to choose out of any of those three things choose out, meaning, I count my breaths until I get distracted. I never get past three. Mm hmm. And I've meditated for years and years. So I will go I will count one breath, two breaths, and then I'll move or I'll ago, I don't remember call my dad. Oh, I gotta remember to. I just got distracted one. So in the course of my 23 minutes of meditating, I become dis-identified or become the witness of my true self 100 times, maybe more. And those repetitions have built a channel or a groove in my soul, that when I'm driving my car and somebody flips me off, I don't react to that. Because I just go one, and I take a breath. And now all of a sudden, I'm the witness of myself. And I can choose to get triggered and flip that person back off or wave at them or apologize or ignore. But meditation gives you the gives me the manual controls of my life. And I and I look at that as one of the anchors of my well being and I do that before the world has its way with me because if I try to meditate, when it's convenient during the day, I never do. And the same thing with exercise and with journaling. I will try to do all those things before I get hammered by the world. And at some point, the more people start doing their intentional morning rituals, They kind of get longer and longer and longer, which is one of the reasons why, you know, monks wake up at three o'clock in the morning. Because you have to do all those things before you sweep the temple. The moment you start doing the world it's pretty hard to do, you know, develop yourself because you're, you're in service at that point which is good. Great. And I want to be in service the rest of the day.

CK LIN 1:19:25
So you do self care first and fully being service. Yeah, gotcha.

Yeah. That's growth service. I grow in the morning. I serve the rest of the day. That's a nice way putting it Yeah, I'm gonna steal that. Yeah, please do. So that's my morning ritual. Mostly men, not men. Both mixed mixed bag. Yeah. Okay. Men, three, three, core piece of literature that I think we should be required to read just to even maintain our men card, it's like a license. 1)Iron john Robert Bly, 2) King warrior magician, lover by Dr. Gillette and 3) anything by Joseph Campbell, power of myth, it's a good place to start. And then obviously, power of myth is gender neutral. And that's just a masterwork. Then for the ladies,

CK LIN 1:20:27
actually, before you move on, so because you had talked about your anthropologist and you alluded to many of the story archetypes, how do you think having that story archetypes be useful in our day to day life and help us navigate this human journey? You can tell tell us a little more about that.

I don't know how much time we have. This is this is a deep dive and you open the can of worms. The hero's journey is also referred to as the Mono myth, which is the plotline of every myth that we have ever told as a species. And if you take a look at the mythology of your choice, whether it be Norse, or, you know, African, generally, it's the same story over and over and over again with the same plot arc, and usually consisting of about the same characters. And so, the question is, why do we keep telling the same story over and over again, because that is the hardwired response that human beings have with the unknown. That's the hero's journey. It contains the psychological sequence and patterns that we all go through on a micro scale, which is this conversation had its hero's journey to a daily hero's journey to a week a month a project ultimately alifetime, we all go back home again. So instead of just moving through a completely Uncharted, chaotic, almost meaningless journey, and overwhelming because we have no idea where I am, I have no idea why this is happening to me. I'm just raging against God in the universe. So like, why is this happening? This is a good time, I hope it doesn't stop. Well, there is a reason why you're suffering and the good times to stop. And so to the bad times, because this is a cycle. And if we can become familiar with the hero's journey, it gives us our place in time. It gives us a sense of understanding and meaning for what we're going through. it illuminates what has just happened and provides a meaning for that and most importantly, it tells us what's coming, it tells us how to intensely navigate, whatever that next phase is, whether that be moving into chaos, or moving back home again and serving. So the hero's journey is one of what I refer to as a master map.

And I think there's three master maps that I have discovered over the last 30 years. And then that's one of them. And it is probably the subject of a whole other conversation. It's a deep dive,

CK LIN 1:23:28
Well you can't just say three maps and share one. What are the two other maps?

I thoought it was like a teaser. Okay. 1)Hero's Journey, 2) the archetypes of humanity is what I alluded to that King warrior magician and lover. Those are the four behavioral categories that all humanity falls into one of those four things. They are those four buckets are created by the two big psychological drivers that all human need. One is connection, which is a continuum there are high connection people and low connection people. And then there's the continuum of the other axis, which is Carl Jung refers to a struggle, and struggle is how much assertiveness and much need do we have to explore and express. It's almost the axis between peace and power. And where individuals fall on those two axes, places us in one of those particular behavioral buckets, which, again in mythology, define the role that you play in our tribe. We have our visionary leaders who are creative. They're artists, they are oftentimes distracted. They say yes to too many things. Those are the kings and the Queens. They're balanced out by the low connection, low struggle people. Who are the watchers, the Observers, the synthesizers, the crafts people of our tribe and those are the shamans. Those are the magicians. Those are the the oracles, kings and queens need magicians. magicians need kings and queens. So that that, that polarity needs to exist. And then the other two are the low connection, high struggle category, which I'm in right now in my life. Now, those are the warriors. They're the decisive drivers of movement and activity and projects. Those those are balanced out by the high connection and low struggle people who are the lovers, the best friends, the allies. And so understanding those allows you on an intra personal level, which is within myself, the ability to be decisive and diverse in my behavior, I don't have to go to war with everybody. I can intentionally choose to be more of a connector and a peacemaker. But I don't want to get run over. I don't want to be taken advantage of. I don't want to acquiesce. So sometimes I have to be more warrior. Sometimes I have to be more creative to step into my king power. So those allow us to be able to be very versatile and very decisive about our behavior, which is the human superpower that's what promethius gave us here control this flame Don't be afraid of it. This is yours You get to choose when how what we make our fire all the other and what's just like holy shit this fire. Woh what is that? humans. I get to go make a fire wherever I want. I get to make it as big as I want and I get it put it out when I want. The archetypes allow me to do that. They like they give me the map of intentional navigating through behavior.

3) The third big master map is how you sequentially and intentionally build your tribe. And it's not random. It's not just a matter of I like these people. They're my tribe. That's not how it works. There is a very structured approach. It is not created by humanity. It was it is much older than that. And it's hierarchical. And it starts with an alignment based foundation. You have to do alignment first. Whether that be with your significant other, your company, your hiring, your business plan. Alignment happens first, alignment gives you kinship, belonging, your your tribe, and once you have that in place, you automatically tipped over into the ability to skillfully navigate through conflict. And that's kind of the next level up, which is called accountability. It's in. It's the same hierarchical system in sports psychology, Patrick lencioni is business work, wolf behavior. It's all the same same systems. And ultimately, once we've done all that work, then we we reached the top of the pyramid which is sustainable, thriving. And each one of the categories, each one of those phases that we're building is built on the foundation of the previous one, and it automatically drives the next one. So that's one of the master maps that I use with my corporate clients

CK LIN 1:28:46
Did you develop that yourself?

My particular genius is the ability to synthesize other people's work. I tried to cite it whenever I can. And I probably plagiarize. 100 people in this conversation time wasn't able to, to share all of that. There's very little that I have personally created. But that tribe triangle is probably the synthesized version of mine. And master Glenshee only has his own. Any sports psychology has its own any elite military unit has its own any wolf behaviorist, but if you layer all four of those things on top of each other, they're exactly the same. And that was that's probably one of the things that that I bring to the table is the yin/yang koifish model is not the hero's journey. But I saw the hero's journey in that. And so that's, that's, that's my version of the hero's journey. And in the same way that the tribe triangle is obviously, I have stood on the shoulders of giants. But I am seen further.

CK LIN 1:30:04
Beautiful. Thank you. And then so book recommendations finish it up, please.

Oh, so I give you the guy ones. Ladies, those are all great for you too. And many of them. For example, King warrior magician lover. It's about the book that was directed at a masculine audience, but it contains the same information. Yep, you just have to put "wo" in front of man. Right? And then it's your book too. But the the core book that would be the book end to iron john, which is a book about men and male initiation. And it's a initiation myth. explicated by Robert Bly. The female version of that would be "women who run with the wolves". And it is a collection of female initiation stories. It's a it's a heavy lift. For all you ladies who either have it and haven't started it, or if you haven't gotten it yet, take your time with that one. It's a chilly, it's a chilly read, but chock full of goodness.

CK LIN 1:31:13
Thank you so much, Philip. you dropped so many gems in this conversation. Yeah, really requires listening to this conversation over and over again. Thank you so much. Really, really appreciate you, brother. Yeah, thank you for doing the work.

Thank you. Yeah, thanks for providing a platform that we get to illuminate and share that light.

CK LIN 1:31:36
If you want to dive deeper into the noble warrior experience, go to noblewarrior.com/belief. To get one of the most powerful techniques I've learned to remove limiting beliefs in less than 10 minutes without years of therapy, or affirmations. Go to noblewarrior.com/belief.