July 2, 2022

136 Rudy Randa: Amplifying Wisdom - One Indigenous Elder at a Time

My guest is Rudy Randa, the Co-Founder of Aniwa Co and The Boa Foundation that focus on supporting humanity and the planet through initiatives in indigenous communities worldwide.

Aniwa is a movement that invites people of all colors, creeds, and races to come together and create a new story, planting the seeds of change so we may grow and thrive in harmony with Mother Earth. Our mission is to amplify the voices of the world's most respected indigenous leaders, to help us remember how to connect with the power of the elements, the memories of the trees, the teachings of the heart. Together, we awaken and join forces in these times of great change. We curate transformative experiences through ancient ceremonies, ancestral wisdom, cultural exchange, and reciprocity, creating a deeper sense of connection, and all-inclusive solutions to live a joyful life of peace, understanding, and healing.


We talked about:

  • His origin story of chasing joy to being joyous
  • How he found his divine purpose
  • Indigenous wisdom healing traumas and maladaptive programmings
  • Ayahuasca as a healing agent for the spirit
  • What it takes to build an organization that supports indigenous elders
  • The intricacies of bridging cultures between the West and indigenous tribes




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CK: [00:00:00] My next guess is Rudy. Rhonda. He's the co-founder of the ANIWA platform with the intention of amplifying the indigenous wisdom and making this deep wisdom available to the Western world.

He also, also is the co-founder of the boa foundation is the mission is to work with in Alliance within indigenous communities to preserve and protect sacred land culture and ancient wisdom. And if you're interested in following up, go to aniwa.co and the boa foundation.org.

Welcome Rudy.

Thanks for being here.

Rudy: Grand rising CK. Thank you for having me very appreciate this opportunity to talk a little bit about, um, my mission here.

CK: Mm. So I wanna bring in the moment what I said to myself. I want to talk to this guy. So [00:01:00] there I was in the middle of a ceremony. And I was really struggling at that moment.

Right. And then there, you were playing this beautiful drum and what I experienced was your inner joy and you are a master drummer. And I went up to you afterwards to really ask you about your story, uh, how you bring forth your, your, your inner joy, and then share with the world and, and with the circle, and really activate all of us to help us move through whatever challenges we have through this inner joy.

And then you share, um, that you, you, weren't always this way, that you didn't always have joy within to amplify. Why don't you tell that story of how you move from, you know, the person that you were to the person that amplifies this inner joy today.

Rudy: Wonderful. Thank you. Um, so the cliff [00:02:00] notes version. Uh, because this story can go on for quite a while, is that, um, you know, I was a college graduate working for a fortune 100 corporation and, um, you know, striving to get ahead as we say, uh, promotions and, uh, raises.

And then of course, to acquire more material things. And, um, you know, I always, uh, had joy within me. You know, people enjoyed being around me socially. However, you know, I really needed certain situations like, um, situations where there was alcohol and, or other substances for that joy to come out of me. Um, and then of course upon reflection, you know, in some ways this joy was contrived, uh, because it had to be manufactured through, uh, substance use, [00:03:00] you know, And, um, and so I was on this journey then of, um, what I call chasing celebration.

I was chasing this joy, you know, I need to needed to manufacture situations, social situations, party situations, um, in order for me to conjure this joy. And, um, you know, I started to see once I hit, uh, 30, that this was a bit of a loop that I could travel to New York, Los Angeles, Miami Las Vegas, you know, veil like Tahoe.

It didn't matter. And I could have 50 of the most, uh, you know, funny characters surrounding me and be staying, you know, luxurious, um, uh, homes and have wonderful music, uh, surrounding us, you know, with bands and [00:04:00] DJs. And then have all the right, um, you know, party favors if you will. And yet, uh, it was like a D V D who remembers DVDs.

It was like a DVD skipping the same scene over and over again. Guha.

CK: Pardon? Groundhog Day. Yeah, bill murray that movie it's kinda like that.

Rudy: Exactly, exactly. And, um, and, uh, I, I started to see like, wow, I'm really chasing this celebration. It is not innate within me, but I didn't know, you know, anything about spirituality, uh, that much, I didn't know anything about plant medicine.

And so, um, you know, I didn't really know where to look, but by the grace of God, I had a friend who said, you know, bring me to, you need to come to one of my spiritual journeys down to Columbia. I went, this opened the door. And, um, [00:05:00] you know, now the joy that I source is the raw, an adulterated joy that lives inside of each and every one of us.

And it doesn't need to be chased. I don't chase anything anymore. You know, I don't chase girls. I don't chase money. I don't chase success. I don't chase joy. There's nothing to chase, you know, that is outside the present moment. And, um, and so now the joy comes in these moments of, uh, creation, these moments of collaboration, these moments of humanity, these moments of spirit, you know, um, these moments of community, um, these moments to wonder, you know, join, once you can peel back sort of the layers of the maladaptive programming that, you know, so many, many of us have, uh, endured in our Western society.

You know, you can source great joy, just hugging a tree. And I'm not kidding. Just hugging a tree, [00:06:00] watching the sunset, the sunrise, watching kids play that aren't real relations. Maybe you just, you don't know 'em you're in a park and you see two kids running around. Wow. Remember when we were kids and used to do that, like, so it becomes more accessible, you know, and this is what I found is that joy really is, uh, is a choice.

And that's, you know, why in these ceremonies, when the music comes on, we do what we do because there are people who are in this place of, uh, perhaps suffering, you know, perhaps in explor of, uh, shadow, perhaps uncovering some trauma and what we're doing up at there at the altar, with the instruments and with the singing is, um, I like to call it we're we're giving the space a bath in joy.

So you are ensconced enjoy, and then it becomes a choice for the participant. Okay. I have all these realizations, [00:07:00] I've checked in with some shadow aspects of my personality. Am I going to sit here and wallow in this suffering? Cuz that's the choice, you know, um, I'm or am I gonna open my eyes and see the beauty around me?

Listen to the beauty, feel the vibration of beauty that is emanating from, you know, the musicians. When I look and I see the people who are up dancing, like look how beautiful the movement of their body. And that's where I, it becomes a choice. And because these ceremonies are really a divine school, you know, it's a divine school of life.

This then becomes a choice. Um, that you can make more easily outside of the ceremony. So for instance, um, you know, it's not to be, um, irrationally positive all the time. That's not what I'm saying. Yeah.

CK: So you, [00:08:00] so pause on that for a moment. I want to, you want to, you just share is such a beautiful, um, articulation of this.

So I, I recently I heard Saru, uh, Indian, spiritual guru said this, and I thought it was so poignant, which, uh, echoes exactly the sentiment that you share. He said, instead of pursuing happiness, make your life an expression of your inner joy. And I thought that was very profound because when you pursue happiness, happiness is outside of you.

You're grasping for it, right. As you said, you're chasing the high and, and sign of an addiction is something that. You get less and less, the more and more you chase. Right? So that's, that's, that's what that is. But if instead, if you make your life an expression, inner joy, that implies implicitly, you already have it.

And now you're just giving it away as a gift to others around you. So what you, the story that you share was, uh, [00:09:00] beautifully said, thank you. So

Rudy: I, I like the way SA good says it. uh, thank you for sharing that, because that is exactly right. There's no destination everyone's running around this life thinking that the, they have to be somewhere and that in the present moment, they're late for arriving there, you know, but there is no place to be, you know, the, the journey is the destination and, uh, and the destination is the journey.

Um, and we all have this inner joy within us. You know, we just. It depends how much we bury it. Uh, so we learn to dust it off and to use it. And, uh, like I said, this is something that I see in the spiritual community is, um, you know, we call it like the love and light crew. Everything's love and light. They just wanna ignore [00:10:00] suffering and ignore shadow, but that's also not the way, you know, fears, real angers, real sadness, depression, all these things are real.

And it's okay to feel these things, but, but I should say, and we have a choice then what we do with these emotions and, uh, um, what, you know, I encourage people to do is to feel them, to breathe into them, to breathe through them, acknowledge them, then release them and go back to for gratitude and joy for having.

Confronted something that's quite, um, off putting quite scary, uh, like a big fear or a big trauma or sadness, you know? And, uh, for that there's reason to be joyful. So get up then and dance.

CK: Yes. Every moment we always have a choice. As Victor Frankel said, between [00:11:00] stimula response. There's a space in that space lies in our growth and freedom.

Uh, you had mentioned a divine school of life, so let's double click on that. And during our specific ceremony, I was thinking to myself, you know, my brand is the noble warrior. That's one of my about, and in this particular time, we are, the world is worrying about wars and I'm not pro-war, I'm actually pro peace.

So the meditative question I was thinking about is. Who am I waring against? Sure. And the answer that came from our particular session was I'm waring against oblivion, a lack of clarity, confusion, chaos. That's the war that I'm declaring from within so that I can be more conscientious that I can be more the way that I behave the way I think, the [00:12:00] way I talk and so forth.

And then the next question, is this something that I think about then if that's the case, why would I ingest conscientiously an agent? I was specifically that put me in a state of confusion, and then that's the thing I wanna double click on for those who never had the medicine experience per se, this may be a thing that they think about, right.

Oh, how is this, how is this gonna help you to be more clear, even though intentionally this is temporarily rather put you in the state of. You know, swirl of things that shows up. So someone who, uh, is evangelist, who, who, who, who is in this work deeply, if you can double click on that and then unpack that a little bit, or those who may not have the medicine experience yet think about this way.

Rudy: So just to, uh, re reframe frame, am the question back to you. So I understand it clearly. You're asking me [00:13:00] why someone would, um, have this experience with iowaska if perhaps it can, during the course of the ceremony, leave you in a confused or befuddled state.

CK: That's right. Mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm

Rudy: so this is, uh, a really good question.

And for me, it's quite a simple answer. Mm-hmm and, um, I will start by sharing, uh, a little bit of a parable to give context. Mm-hmm we have, um, our head and we have our heart. These are two, um, centers of, of activity and function within our human experience and body. And the, they say that, um, the head and the heart, you know, are connected of course.

And, [00:14:00] um, that it is, uh, they form a machete. Everyone knows what a machete looks like, probably at a big sharp blade and then a long handle. They say that the heart is the handle and the head is the laid. And, uh, when you use a machete, if no one's ever used a machete, I spend a lot of time in the forest.

I've used one quite often. You know, you hold the handle and you hack whatever you need to hack, you know, but you point it with the handle. Mm, this is the heart. The heart is the handle. The heart is that which leads the blade. The mind is sharp. It is the blade, but it is not led blade. First. It is led by the handle, the heart, mm.

In our society. We have somehow arrived, uh, [00:15:00] at the inverse of this. And we're clutching the blade as the handle and walking around wondering why our hand is bleeding,

cuz we have it backwards. We need to be led by the heart. So when people go to these ceremonies and they start to arrive than a place of confusion, the medicine is just showing them that they are already confused. and it's not a judgment. We are all confused in some way. You know, nobody's not confused in some way.

This is the society in which we live in. You know, there's just basic principles of life. You know, what many indigenous called the natural law, which we have not grasped in our society. So we are confused. We are a confused society. The medicine is showing us that. And in these moments, the coaching that we give people, okay.[00:16:00]

Put your hand on your heart, breathe into your heart. What does your heart tell you? Can you tune into what your heart tells you is your heart confused? Sometimes the heart is confused, you know, around especially romantic love, you know, but, um, when it comes to things of that, the, the brain is, you know, processing.

Uh, or stuck on, you know, the heart usually has a lot of clarity there. You know, if the person can't get out of their head, they can't get into their heart. Then there's tools like AUA, Flo, that little cologne, you know, that's not used because it smells good. It's used to wash away these stagnant thoughts, you know, there's tobacco, uh, you can smoke a tobacco and not cigarettes.

You know, you don't inhale, smoke, sacred tobacco, wash it away. And then of course, you know, if you're really, really stuck, there's always the, you [00:17:00] know, the PA, which is what they call the, the shaman that they don't have a word for shaman in Brazil, PA's healer. Um, the PA can come and put his hands on it and O you know, give you what we call a blow.

But, um, I really appreciate this question because, uh, you know, confusion, I feel like is one of the, it's one of the, um, The pitfalls of our, of our Western society. You know, there's so much information coming through and there's so much different information coming through. And, um, we're not taught basic principles, uh, that allow us to remain grounded.

You know, someone that has a connection to sacred water has a connection to earth that understands where the food comes from. They're usually a grounded person. They're not so confused. Why is there that correlation, you know, people say, oh, but they're simple, simple, [00:18:00] and not confused, you know? So yeah. I hope that answers the question.

CK: Thank you for that. No, I appreciate it for sure. The way I think of it is, um, noble warrior. So we use the dojo as a metaphor a lot. And to me, it's very similar. The, the, the, the, these ceremonies are. The dojos for the spirit, for the heart. And we go in and these of clarity, surface and amplifies what's already within us.

Mm-hmm so it is, it's not something that it produces. It's rather it just amplifies what's already there. So therefore it makes it more apparent so that we can, um, process it if we choose to right and make a different choice. And just like the gym, we go to the gym, we exercise our muscular church and get to a place of failure in as a way to [00:19:00] strengthen our muscles to more gain, more stamina and more strengthen.

Similarly, we get to look at the, all the issues that we have in our heart, in our mind, and we get to, uh, process them. So then, then when we come out of these ceremonies, these temporal states of confusion, be befuddlement, et cetera, we come up more clear. That's the way I think about these practices.

Rudy: I couldn't agree.

More spiritual dojo indeed. And, um, I will say though, what I've learned is that, uh, we're not actually fighting anything. I had, um, I, I have a warrior spirit with dimming. This is, uh, been told to me by many of the indigenous elders we work with. And, uh, my main teacher, a man named Benley Pico. Um, he looked at me some years ago.

We were, we were at my mother's house. Actually. We were doing an event at my mother's house fundraiser, [00:20:00] and he looks at me and he says, and he sends to the group too. Or a bunch of people around says, Bri has a warrior spin. He doesn't know how to use it. he laugh in my face. OK. OK.

CK: Say more about that. Say more about that.

What's a warrior spirit. And then how do you properly use it?

Rudy: Well, I will, I will tell you, uh, my initial response was to be totally defensive, cuz I was like, I've done vision quest, I've done pilgrimages to Vita Kuta. I've done three month diets in the rainforest. I have this organization I'm fighting for the earth who are, you know, one second, maybe not one second later I realized he was right because I was a warrior for the earth.

You know, I was doing my best, but I didn't know how to use it because I was at war. I was at war with evil. So to speak with these dark forces [00:21:00] that the forces behind, you know, uh, inequality were racism, rape child, sex trafficking, you know, all these terrible things that exist on a planet. I was at war with those forces.

And so I said, okay, how you know, well, what can I do? He says, you need to come and diet with me. And so I, along with my mission partner, Vivian was the other co-founder. We had the only two Westerners to be allowed into this Ashin school of wisdom, uh, a major honor, which I still don't quite comprehend now, but it has filled a great need because it was there that I began to learn that to be a warrior.

You can't have anger in your spirit. You need to be in total equilibrium, [00:22:00] total balance so that when you are confronted with Satan himself, you're not in a reactionary state, you are in a state of balance because the war is not direct confrontation. It's more like TA Chi. You know, it's moving around these things while staying grounded.

And, um, you know, I, during this time, the first three months that I spent there with banking and I had spent one month with him before, um, learning, but this was like the school, his school, the three months, three months we drank I every single night for 90 days every morning we get maybe two hours of sleep.

We get up, we go plant trees. We go build things. No, uh, red meats, no sugar, no alcohol, no caffeine, no. You know, obviously tobacco or [00:23:00] anything like this. It's like, we're eating just plain fish, maybe some green banana plantain rice like this, and maybe two meals a day. So how can you do this for 90 days?

Drink medicine every single night. You don't sleep. You work all day in the hot rain for his son. Well, because what he's teaching us is how to pull energy from the spiritual world, from the nature around us. So during this time I'm thinking a lot about, you know, these dark forces that really have infected our planet, you know, that are behind war that are behind drug addiction and spousal abuse, just all these terrible things, you know, but how, how do we not fight them?

And so at this point, I called, um, uh, a dog on elder from over there in Africa, Burkina Faso, the dog on, they were never colonized the line of wisdom, uninterrupted, like some of, of the wisest [00:24:00] people I've ever encountered. And I called the son of the prophet man named NABA. I said, NABA, you know, But what about this, like black magic, you know, this evil and he says in our culture, we don't even have a word for black magic.

We don't even have a, really a word for evil. Really. He says, there's just two paths. There's the path of wooer, which is the path of living eternally through creation. And what that is, that is, uh, you live eternally through the things you create through the things you put into this world, through your children and your grandchildren and so forth and so on.

You also then believe in reincarnation that your spirit will come down and have a physical life. Again, this is the path of love, compassion, you humil service union, and there's the path of set. The left hand side [00:25:00] path of set is living eternally through self preservation, meaning. You think you live eternally through greed control, power material, but that path of course is an illusion cuz you don't live eternally.

You only try to, and you look at our society, you look at the how, uh, our major institutions like where they are leading us. Are they leading us on the path of wooer the path of living eternally through creation or are they leading us on the path of set living eternally through self-preservation look at governments.

You look at corporations. They're largely on the path of set sort of realized is to be a warrior. There's not to fight these things to be a warrior is to be on this more [00:26:00] narrow path. Ofer this narrow path of living eternally through creation. And being imovable from this path being uncompromising, not being, uh, persuaded by any temptation or by any fear, because in this world to remain on this very narrow path, it takes strength, takes courage.

It takes persistence, takes resilience, and there are a lot of forces that want to knock us off this. And so this for me is how I learned, began to learn cuz it's, I I'm all forever a humble student. So I wanna emphasize that. One thing I know for sure is that I don't know much in this world, so, but beginning to learn how to be a real warrior and not a warrior that wants to fight everyone.

[00:27:00] You know, that wants to go punch the devil in the face and, you know, a child sex traffickers want to, you know, knock their teeth out. No, that's perpetuating the same violence that they're engaging in. That is not a warrior. That's not a warrior of peace, you know? And so, um, this is what I've begun to understand about embodying the warrior spirit that, uh, I have with me.

CK: I love that. Uh, it actually reminds me of a story of a samurai samurai going after a evil lo at the time. And finally he caught the evil Lord in the corner and the evil Lord started to spit at him CU at him. And that very last moment. You really got him angry. And then, [00:28:00] then the samurai then sheath his sword and turned back and, and then someone else asked him, like you had him in the corner.

Why didn't you just finish the job that you were aim to do? And the summarize said, I sheath my sword because he got me angry and I didn't want to finish a vision with that anger. He lost equanimity at the time his anger got control of him. So he turned around exactly. As you said, right? Not being poor and control by this anger, this antagonism towards the evils of the world.

Rather you want to go out and create. And that also I was smiling during your story because that's what noble worry is all about. We're going from the first mountain of achievement, right? That self preservation, the egoic pursuit. The self to the second mountain of purpose and legacy, right through creation through compassion and union.

How do we actually [00:29:00] create a world that is so freaking inspiring and just, it just pulls people towards that. So beautiful, uh, articulation. Thank you so much. The,

Rudy: yeah, that's amazing. And I really appreciate the samurai story as well, because this tells me how connected ancient cultures were. You know, so often we have this where you have, uh, the same parable, but with different, uh, you know, sort of dressing on it and from different continents.

And so, you know, that's one thing that I really see and, and why I believe in ancient wisdom so much, it's not to issue or ignore modern technology and what the west has achieved, but there is a lot of wisdom. That has been here for thousands and thousands and thousands of years and has not changed. It hasn't changed because it's always [00:30:00] relevant, you know?

And we've buried that. And that's another mission of the AWA uh, platform and community.

CK: So, okay. So, so let's double click on that, cuz I was gonna ask you this perfect segue, cuz I was gonna ask you that question cuz you're obviously a very capable man. You have a, a story you have at a power of words.

You're very articulate. You're very poetic. You can pull in different things and achieve. I think you, you shared your story with me, how you spent eight to 10 hours with a bank telling stories about company and now you're shifting that superpower to preserve ancient wisdom, right? So out of a billion, other things you could be doing, why ancient wisdom?

Why, why is such a topic important for you?

Rudy: You know, this is. This is great. You know, my mouth, my mouth was my, was my, uh, stock and trade, not just in, in business, but socially I'd use it to [00:31:00] dominate spaces. I'd use it to make people laugh. I'd use it to attract girls. I'd use it to make friends. I'd use it to, to alpha, you know, oftentimes, uh, cause I could talk a mile a minute, I of stories and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And you know, and then of course you get into sales. I could sell water to a wildfire and hell, you know, well making money always be closing ABC that whole nonsense. And um, and then by the grace of God, I came to medicine and interesting when I came to medicine, cuz I was really used at that time. Like what I'm doing everything right in life.

I have this gorgeous loft in Chicago, beautiful girlfriend, probably gonna marry her friends, belong to the right clubs. Great family dress. Well, got all the things. Like, why am I miserable? I've thought I'm doing everything right in life. And it was that moment. I started to read a book that I had read several, several times in my life, [00:32:00] numerous times, actually it was called lame dear seeker of visions book written by a Lakota medicine man and John fire, lame deer.

And I had first read this book when I was 15, my literature class in my, uh, I went to a prep school. We had literature class and for one year we read only, this is back in 1995. We read only what we call turtle island first nation, uh, in indigenous of, of United States authors. And I remember, you know, reading about Sundance and sweat lodge and Chatan.

You know, reading this book and especially this one and just being like, wow, I wanna go sit in a sweat lodge. I want to go eat peyote, you know, and was talking about a relationship to nature and to the animals and to the wind. Wow. [00:33:00] Fascinating. It's always kept his book with me and give it his gift for some reason, I, to read this book again and it made sense cuz I right after finishing it again, I went to medicine and um, without telling you about the whole first experience, uh, just say that I got a lot of weight off my shoulders.

I got received a lot of clarity. And then when it was done at for 10 days or 12 days, whatever it was, um, back in the states, I'm like, okay, now what? Well I want, I want more. So I go to sweat lodges. Now I go to, you know, do stuff with the natives of, of the land and I, which I grew up in, you know, not south America here in.

Turtle island as, as we say, United States. Uh, and so they had sweat lodge and peyote and, you know, I kept feeling better and better, you know, learning more learning how to pray, you know, like, uh, and so then it became, okay, well, [00:34:00] I wanna share this. I wanna, you know, like, uh, I want all my friends, my beautiful friends who are also in a similar place to where I was, I want them to have this opportunity, you know, like we change the world.

And so that's when I started to pray, oh, you know, help me out. God help me out. Great spirit. What can I do? And my mantra was divine purpose. You know, that was like the mantra every day, multiple times throughout the day, just be like, please show me my divine purpose, whatever it is. Just know that I'll be happy, find purpose.

And, um, I left, I been living in LA prior to the first medicine experience and I left and, uh, moved in with a friend in, uh, the foothills of Tucson, Arizona, the friend who had brought me on that first retreat. And he had a fire pit in his backyard and I every night go out and make a fire. A and I'd sit there until the Coles were all out under [00:35:00] the stars and the desert of Tucson, Arizona.

And I'd just pray, you know? And then it came to me, okay, you need to start a foundation because there's lots of foundations working with the dishes, but they're not necessarily doing it right. Not to say they're bad. They're not doing it right. What you need to do is just go build an Alliance, friendship.

You make friends easy for me, something I've always been very good at, make friends have this Alliance based on friendship, trust, brotherhood, um, and then you just ask them what their needs are, because the chief knows what's good for his village. I don't know. I can think, oh yeah, we're gonna give you this.

We'll give you that. But the chief knows what's good for his village. Okay. What else? What else? Tell me more. And then you wanna start, um, like, um, like a community where you make content, um, [00:36:00] to amplify this message of the indigenous to help amplify their voices because not everyone can go, you know, fly to south America for a retreat.

Not everyone can even go to like a, you know, a two day weekend, you know, retreat, but most people got, have access to the internet, you know? So let's start getting this, uh, on the internet so that this can really reach. All the people whose hearts are ready to receive this message, all the people whose minds are confused in this time that may need, that may find clarity in a two hour talk by one of these leaders.

So, and I said, okay, well, I don't actually know. I don't actually know any of these leaders that I feel comfort to both starting in Alliance with I've met some and they've been good, but I don't, you know, that's when God said, oh, you'll, you'll meet them in Brazil. But I said, well, I've never been to Brazil.

It's like, well, you're gonna go. [00:37:00] Okay. And you also meet your partner in this. There. I was like, really? I haven't gonna have a partner in this. Okay. And then sure enough, six, my, um, in this place called Zo, which translates to high paradise in Portuguese, it's kinda like the Sedona of, uh, Brazil, but totally different landscape.

There's thousands of waterfalls all in this little. It's tiny area and there's, uh, it's it's ground is, um, just straight crystal quartz, quartz, crystal. So it's like the whole place sits on a bed of quartz crystal. So it's a pretty magical spot. And, uh, there was this conference, condo Eagle there, and, uh, I'm sitting there about to start a ceremony and this Brazilian woman comes up to me.

We have a conversation and, uh, she tells, I tell her that I have this dream of creating this foundation and [00:38:00] making a film and I find indigenous voices, just, I don't know why I shared this with her. And then she's like, that's my dream too. I was like, yeah, sure. He's like, no, really? He said, oh yeah. And I wanna point, I said, I wanna use that guy for the film.

And I point to this man, Nina, you know, out of all the featured, uh, you know, shamans during his conference, this was the one guy who was like, I was like, he's the guy, you know, I. She looks at him, she's like, oh, I've been talking to him. He's has a dream that people come to his village and make a film about his culture.

I'm like, okay. And like, it was like, I got struck by both the lightning in that moment. And, um, and so that's where it started, you know, with this motivation. But then as I've gone on, I'm starting to see the importance of it because, um, you know, as Western society often does, we co-opt, um, culture, you know, and we appropriate culture.[00:39:00]

And I see so many people saying that, you know, taking like an indigenous teaching and then twisting it some sometimes overtly sometimes subtly to fit their narrative. That's not okay. The teaching is as the teaching is and has been that way since the beginning of time. Cuz that is the teaching. The Western mind loves to twist it.

CK: So, so before you start talking about that, let me, let me actually summarize my style by the way. Yeah. So what I'm hearing is you were praying for a divine purpose throughout your awakening process, right? You, you receive benefits now you're thinking about what's my divine per you meditated for a long time, you get some kind of revelation, download what insights, whatever you call this.

And then you just trusted that process to go to Brazil, to go into Eagle condo conference. And, and you also externalize your dream to people [00:40:00] around you. Is that an accurate recap of what you share?

Rudy: That is an accurate recap. And, uh, like I say, hashtag trust the process.

CK: okay. So I want to double click on that a little bit, right?

Cuz you made it sound like you just trusted the process and from all the interviews that I've done, it's not always that easy cuz you know, there's internal tension. Should I should not. I, the, the process of, you know, surrendering to the message per se, cause there's many, many voices, right. Narratives that's happening concurrently, not just one.

So how did you decide or to surrender to this particular message versus all other competing voices in your head?

Rudy: Um, you know, I had, um, it was, it was quite easy for me because I had exhausted every other avenue in the [00:41:00] pursuit of inner peace. Mm, and, um, fulfillment. And so by the time I arrived to, you know, my, my awakening to spirituality, my remembrance of spirituality, I was so tired of pushing in these other directions that I was like, just take me, you know, I had found that place of total surrender.

Cause I was like, I, I, I I've tried everything, you know, at this point, I'm, by the time I finally drank medicine, uh, I was 32 years old, 32 years old, you know, so it's like a decade of adult life. Um, and I just had enough, you know, so for me, um, it was easier not to say that I became perfect overnight, you know, but it was just like, [00:42:00] I've been trying this one method or going down this one path for so long.

And I actually feel more disenfranchised and more disconnected. I do one 10 day retreat and it's like 10 years of therapy. There's something there, you know, there's something there. So don't argue just for the first time in your life, instead of talking all the time, shut up and listen.

CK: okay. So since you have a gift of articulation of the inner subjective experience and some people, they may not have that awareness even, can you paint us a picture of the before and after?

So paint us a picture of the inner chaos and paint us a picture of this inner piece that you talked about. Cause words are, you know, people say these words and then people are up to their own imagination. Since you have this gift of articulation, paint us a picture of the symptoms of inner chaos and the symptoms of inner peace.

Rudy: the symptoms of inner chaos are [00:43:00] only feeling free in those moments of, um, conjured ecstasy, like within a party, uh, setting and then come Monday morning, feeling in prison and begrudge jingly, going to whatever occupation, uh, that I had in order to make enough money to finance, um, a fantasy and a fantasy that no matter how many times I lived the actual fantasy that it was never, I was never arriving to the place that I thought I would within this fantasy.

And so sometimes you'd sit there and I'd fantasize during the week fantasize. Oh, I can't wait till we're in Vail and many different cities [00:44:00] and you know, we're gonna do all the drugs and, you know, we're gonna have like a, you know, a DJ player, house party, you know, and the mansion re rented or fan about sex, you know, um, really want to have a threesome, you know, we're gonna get two girls at the same time and then it happens and nothing, nothing changes, you know?

And, um, and then also feeling these, um, unwritten social contracts, you know, it's like having to be someone that's not authentic. of a feeling of escape. And it was easy to escape cuz when you, you have hundreds of friends that all just wanna escape too, then socializing was simply escapism escapism into the fantasy realm. But like I said before, I'll say it again. Even in living the fantasy, [00:45:00] uh, not getting any closer to freedom liberation or true happiness of fulfillment.

So this is before, um, and um, the symptoms of after which takes work, takes courage, takes time. You don't go to a retreat in two weeks and solve all your problems. You can get a huge jump, but it's just, it doesn't work that way. Most of our indigenous elders say five years, five years of healing. It's like concentrated focus on healing before you can really start then to study like, uh, spirituality.

And, um, and so giving yourself that time and the patience again, cuz there's no destination, it's just a journey. [00:46:00] You don't have to be someone, you know, again, you know, just see this often in our society, people go do one week in Peru, they go do like a two week meditation course in ball. It's like, well now I'm the teacher.

No, you're not, you know, I'm sorry. mm-hmm you know, and it's like, that's the, the same pitfalls of the mind that, um, you're trying to heal from. It's trying to be something that you're not because you think that's the only way you'll be accepted. And so, you know, where I am now is I know myself, I can wear a tuxedo and go to a fancy wedding with my family.

I can wear the same board shorts for a week, straight in the rainforest and not shave. I'm the same person I can, you know, dress up like a hipster and go to some event like this. It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter because I am who I am. I know who I am. I don't wear masks anymore. You will hear the same thing from me [00:47:00] as if I was talking to Joe Biden right now.

You know, if I was talking to my six year old, um, you know, little cousin though, I might, you know, use different language. The message is the same. And, um, and that is the symptom. You know, what they say is that when we take drugs, when we get really drunk, when we have random sex, when we experience trauma, our spirit fractures.

It's splinters and healing. This is why you can't do it in just two weeks. Healing is recovering all those splinters of our spirit and bringing them back into our body. Cause once your spirit is aligned to your body, once it's in your body, you know who you are, you become unmovable. You become very clear and so, [00:48:00] you know, I've, I've, I'm on like year 11 now, so I've done five years of healing. I've done five years of, of studying. This is than now. It's just, now that I'm feeling comfortable to teach you. Look at my Instagram. I'm not like, you know, writing teachings, like, uh, like I'm some sort of teacher, because I didn't feel, I didn't feel to.

And I'd write maybe inspirational posts or share about experiences, but not from the place of teacher. It's only now that I'm feeling comfortable teaching because I have put actually in that time and I know now I can feel it. My spirit is fully in my body. I can stay up for three days straight and not be tired and work and give and give because my spirit is in my body.

This is the symptom of someone. And it's not to say you're ever fully healed, but someone has brought their spirit back into their body. You are clear, you know, you're not, um, not to say perfect. You know, it's like, uh, we're always making mistakes and learning from them [00:49:00] always. But, uh, um, when you have put in the time to bring your spirit back in your body, it's really easy to feel that joy that you saw me, you know, just on playing a drum, it's really easy to feel gratitude for simple things.

It's really easy. Um, to stay strong and courageous in the face of, um, of, of, of tyranny, you know, of, um, of, uh, a trigger, you know, so these are the symptoms and, um, you know, and it's like that you're in right relations with your, all the people in your life. , you know, you're in right relations with all the elements you're in, right relations with the spiritual world.

You know, that's one thing that was also my thing. It's like someone, if I had a problem with someone who was just like, you know, you know, it's just like, I would just like, you know, freeze them out. Think like, you know, for lack of better [00:50:00] a term, well, that person's a douche bag. You know, talk, talk trash with my friends about this person, you know, like I don't need them.

I got, I got enough friends who needs, you know, this guy doesn't like me, he's a jerk, you know? And, um, You know now, like, uh, I wanna make efforts to be in right relations with all people, even if sometimes if someone has a problem with me, that's a complete projection, you know, it's like, okay, well let's take the time to be in right relations.

CK: Yeah. I appreciate you sharing the, the contrast with before and after for those who are listening, who is watching this to me is a real contrast between being fracture and being whole being scarce and being abundant. It's a real contrast. And then from a place of humility, now you can, you're you're you have a, it's really obvious for those who is watching that you, you know who you are, [00:51:00] there's a solidity in the groundedness that you know who you are.

And when you speak is precise, it's refin is true for you. And that's, that's one of the reason why I was compelled to. Like I gotta interview Rudy. He's a cool guy. yeah, I'm sure there's more stories beyond the musicianship. Uh, and I'm, you know, obvious that that is very much the case. You're definitely a man on purpose.

So I appreciate sharing this.

Rudy: I thank you, my friend. Thank you, brother. I appreciate the opportunity to share, you know, like I always say, um, this is one thing that Banky Banky Pico was probably one of the more famous indigenous leaders in the world, man, who, uh, has 18 assassination attempts against his life.

He's only 48 years old. Why is

CK: that actually I'm this is so fascinating to me. Why assassination that's really?

Rudy: So he lives in ley, the state of ley Brazil. Mm-hmm she's on the border of Peru and out there [00:52:00] there's factions of the government that don't want to see him alive. There are cattle farmers, soy farmers that don't like his, uh, message of.

Stopping deforestation don't wanna see him alive. And then there are the drug cartels because they move a lot of cocaine and, um, cannabis and other stuff from over the border in Peru. And he spends lots of times rehabbing the youth, uh, who live in cities from, uh, drug addiction, gives them purpose, gives him jobs.

And so of course he speaks out against them as well. And so he's got several competing areas of darkness that do not want to see him breathing. And, uh, you know, but he says, I don't know, the gun people are pointing guns in my face. And I said, why do you want to kill me? I'm only here for love. Mm. And says, then no one ever does it.

And, uh,

CK: do you feel that cuz when, when you think about wisdom [00:53:00] teachers, you know, those who really, truly embody this deep love and compassion and, and empathy and, and, and union. Unfortunately, many of 'em were assassinated. Do you feel like this is the inevitable path of the, the wisdom teachers is there?

Let's see. How do I ask this question?

Rudy: Do you think they have to meet death?

CK: Well, I mean, not, I don't wanna be more but like that, but is that, is that the, the tension is that the challenge of what it takes to really step into one's prominence and legacy and purpose to be at the face of the opposing force.

And, and that's the risk that you take to be such a, a beacon of light?

Rudy: I, I think yes, because it, that, that evil and that threat of violence needs to be acknowledged, you know? And so I've even thought about this for myself, you know, [00:54:00] like, do I wanna speak out on things in which I know I could upset some people who have guns and they're clearly not.

Afraid to use them. But when you choose to follow your divine purpose, this is a mission. This isn't a job, not an occupation. You are on a mission from God. God wants you to fulfill this mission. So if you believe that the spiritual world will protect you, which is believing that if you are faced like banking with someone, that's got a gun in your face, that they will not pull the trigger or that if they actually pull the trigger, the gun will jam.

That's like the level of faith I believe you need to have. And, uh, I believe this exists. I believe that if enough of us step into this sort of faith, that governments that are dropping bonds, all of a sudden planes weren't work. I really believe that, [00:55:00] but it's not one person or a couple of people thinking like that.

We need to create an army of people. That have that faith that have that connection to the spiritual world. And this is, you know, one of the, again, to Lu it back to Anoa, this is one of the things that we are the motivations behind sharing. This is to create, you know, as many people out there to help them remember this, cuz it's a remembrance.

I'm not special. , bank's not special. You know, we all have this within us. We all have this capacity within us. It's a remembrance, but we need to, you know, unwind untangle in order to remember what was given to us with the same divine spark we were born with and our spirit, cuz our has that remembrance.

Right? So this is Donny wa gathering and um, you know, one thing I learned growing up in the United States [00:56:00] being programmed to compete, right. Always like, I need to get better grades. We need to win the game. I need to get the girl, none that it's com competition competition competition. Before I came to medicine, literally weeks before I was in Hong Kong and I had this, uh, download out of nowhere, I just had dinner and had a couple bourbons.

I was smoking a cigarette and Lang qu fun. And I'm just sitting there like thinking as I smoke the cigarette and you know, you don't wanna compete anymore. You don't wanna dominate. You don't wanna win. Cuz if you win, that means someone loses. You don't want someone to lose. You wanna collaborate. You wanna co-create cuz like this, everyone wins.

And I'm thinking that I'm like, wow. And then, you know, with Banky he always gives this message says there's no competition. [00:57:00] Why are you com competing? And I thought about that. I was like, I don't have to compete with anyone cuz I have a mission. How can you compete with a mission? You know, that's all I have is a mission.

How can there be competition? My mission's better than yours. More important. That's absurd. Any mission that's divine is equally important. There's no hierarchy to this, you know, and really if you're getting a mission from the divine, we're all working for the same part. So how can there be in hierarchy?

How can my mission be more important or I be better than someone. And um, that really helped me unwind for it. And that's another thing why I feel comfortable in my spirit because it's like, I don't need to compare myself to someone else. You know, it's another thing, our society, oh, I wish I had that guy's car.

Oh man. Wife is so much better than my girlfriend. You know? It's like, uh, that is that's insanity.

CK: Yeah. When, when, so I heard a phrase recently I really, really love is when you truly [00:58:00] own, I am. Comparison stops because no, because you've truly own it. The only reason why I would want to compare is if I don't own, I am as the eternal expression of, uh,

Rudy: of God.

I appreciate that. That's a nice way of putting it. Mm. You know, so

CK: let me ask you this AOA Boah foundation. To me, they're two sides of the same coin, right? Yeah. One is more giving the other one is, um, amplifying. Right? So, and you are effectively distorted of resources, the bridging the indigenous cultures to the west in my mind, this is, this is the visual that I see.

Um, so that has awesome responsibilities cuz you had earlier mentioned twisting the narratives is not something that you want to do. And um, can you share with [00:59:00] us a little bit about. How do you amplify the narratives of these indigenous, uh, Le elders and how do you reconcile? Maybe some of 'em may have different points of view, right?

How do you in a very collaborative way, amicable way usher their narratives without colluding or inputting or super imposing your point of view?

Rudy: I mean, first of all, I'm just gonna say that, like, what I've found is what I said in the beginning of this podcast is that, you know, the elders, the dog on elders in Africa have the same teachings as the mammos who live high in the city.

Nevadas of Columbia separate, you know, long before wifi and internet and phones. So they're not collaborating, communicating, Hey, you know, we're gonna make this story about this and like this, they all. Have pretty much the same beliefs in teachings, just it's different names with different stories. [01:00:00] Um, so you don't often see any, um, conflicting points of view.

Um, sometimes like there's some cultures that worship, uh, the ball constrictor, for instance, in the Amazon. And then there's neighboring cultures that would never ever call in the spirit of the ball constrictor. They only work with birds and this then comes down to a dialect to a language difference.

That's like the ones that don't use the spirit of the snake or speak an OWA dialect ones that do speak upon no dialect. So, but the themes, the, you know, the overarching themes really, there's no difference, you know, They have the same flood stories that we have in our Bible. They have same creation stories, again, just with different names.

So, um, you know, what we [01:01:00] do is we just let the elders speak, you know, that's the easiest way. And for instance, we have coming up, uh, our UA gathering, which, uh, is an annual four day gathering with 50 of the most, you know, renowned indigenous elders that we work with coming to just share workshops, to just share.

And we don't drink iOS or EEO or anything like that because the idea is that for us just to listen, you know, ask questions of course, but just as a listen and it ends up being people for people, a more powerful experience than any. Ceremony they've been to, and I understand why, well, there's 50 elders there with all their spirit guides, with all their ancestors, with all their connections, to the elements, they're all in one place concentrated.

It's like they're bringing in so much light that the whole, you know, four days is a iowaska journey, cuz it's [01:02:00] just like your shadow can't with this much light being poured in from all these elders. And so, um, yeah, we're doing that again here in big bear Southern it's our first time in California. First year we did it in visa.

Then we did it in New York the last few years and we decided to bring it to California, uh, this year, which I'm so excited about. When is it? Is it June 9th, 10, 11th, and 12th. Nice tickets actually gonna be released today. Oh, awesome. Um, and um, you know, this is really one of our, it's the crown jewel on our calendar because the elders are so excited.

To be with one another, you know, they're like they greet each other as relatives, you know, even though they, they don't speak the same language, you know, so it's really neat to see them interact and connect. And then of course, this is, um, you know, this is, uh, what we call rainbow warrior bootcamp. [01:03:00] You familiar with the rainbow more warrior prophecy.

CK: Why don't you go into that? You, you share that story during ceremony, but I think people who haven't heard it would love to hear from you.

Rudy: Yeah. So this is what Anoa gathering is what it's this event is called. This is what it was inspired by. There are several cultures throughout the world and several continents that have this prophecy about, um, there will be a time when the rivers are running dry.

The fish are disappearing, animals, species are going extinct and, uh, humanities at war and you know, society's crumbling and it's just a time of. Great disconnect and imbalance here on earth. And in this time there'll be a group of people of all colors, races, creeds ages, who will band together in unity, harmony, love, compassion, humility, and service.

Uh, and they will bring forth a new era, a new future of [01:04:00] unprecedented abundance, peace, love harmony. And these people, we called the rainbow warriors. And, you know, I read that and I was like, wow, I believe in that. The was like, I believe in that. So with great humility, we based our first AWA gathered on this prophecy.

And then the second year I started thinking, you know, we we're using indigenous prophecy here, you know, to market, um, a gathering. We need to be really careful, cuz like we cannot commodify prophecy by even a little bit that would be, you know, really disrespectful and out of alignment. But then I thought, okay, well how does one fulfill prophecy?

Well, someone needs to heed the call and fulfill it in this case. It's many people that need to heat the call led by our [01:05:00] indigenous elders. And then it started to Dawn on me. Like, you know, this is an aspect we are fulfilling prophecy, an aspect of it. You know, we can't do this alone, but we're making a, a wrinkle or inspiring others.

And so, you know, you look at this war that's happening right now. You look at, uh, COVID you look at just the world. It's really, really. Kind of falling apart. You know, this is the time animals are going, extinct rivers are polluted we're here. So what we are doing with OWA is, uh, and giving these indigenous elders a platform, we are recruiting more people to the year that they can be a part of this prophecy of delivering the humanity, [01:06:00] uh, to, to, to peace so that our children and our children's children and our children's children's children may live in entirely different world than the one that we've, um, been exposed to.

And, um, I believe this, you know, I believe this very strongly. I believe that our indigenous elders, you know, and their wisdom that they can unlock this remembrance in, in us and that we remain humble and we remain to be allow ourselves to be guided. You know, by these, by these elders that, um, you know, we can all really come together and create the world in which we want to live in.

Um, so this gathering, you know, like I, I said to begin with it is, uh, you know, it's like, uh, right warrior bootcamp training camp. It's like, you can come and maybe you don't, you know, feel like, uh, [01:07:00] like, uh, who is this guy really talking about this prophecy, but I'm interested, but that's it spend four days spend two days, see if the shoe fits, see if you are being caught old within your hearts to, uh, to give, you know, to sign up because, um, that's all it is, is like, uh, people who feel something in their heart and they're okay, well, how can I help?

We all have different skill sets. We can all help in a different way. And I think that's, uh, again, that's the fabric of the rainbow warrior, prophecy, all these different people with all these different.

CK: So on noble warrior, we talk a lot about legacy and purpose. It's one of those themes. That's just, you know, it's the purpose of the noble warrior conversations.

And one thing that I, part of the teachings or the principles is that you don't necessarily wake up with a divine download, like, oh my God, this is what I'm gonna do for the rest of my like, but [01:08:00] there's threats of curiosity. So if you're curious about something, pull on that threat and allow that threat to curiosity and turn to interest, turn into a, a passion, then turn into ultimately a devotion and dormant path.

Right. But you don't necessarily wake up the next day and TA here's my divine purpose. It, it is a process. So for, for me to be in the presence of elders, Uh, what basically is a concentrated place of wisdom and interests and points of views and, and teachings. So that would allow you to, you know, give you PLE threats to pull on.

Rudy: Indeed, indeed. And I think you put it just, uh, the perfectly there, you know, it's following, following a thread. It's not like, uh, uh, a total download, you know, and then it's just

CK: like, you might, [01:09:00] you might, but you know, probabilistically, you follow the thread. That's, that's kind of my point of view.

Rudy: I leave space for people to get the entire download and, you know, 10 minutes.

I welcome that. And I think, uh, following the thread is, uh, also a very good policy

CK: so, so we've been using words, elders wisdom. Pretty loosely. Can you go double click on those two words? What they, like, how did you select these top 50 elders wisdom keepers? What are the qualifications, the attributes, the embodiment, the presence.

How did you reputation? How did you select them?

Rudy: Well, there's ones that we met, you know, that we're just, uh, divinely guided to. Um, and we met them and started working with them and that was our base. That's what we started with. And these people saw that we did good work that we followed through and the things we [01:10:00] said that we were respectful of their traditions of their ways that we weren't, uh, like I said, co-opting or commodifying, anything, um, that we were always bringing in financial support when they needed.

So they said, okay, well we know some people you need to know, you know? And so it's been like that. And, um, you know, there's. Not to say, all of our elders are human. I'm aware of the human side of every single one of our elders. I'm aware of their weaknesses. Every single one, things that we do not tolerate though, are, um, you know, uh, with men, uh, out of alignment behavior with women, it's the easiest way to get kicked out out of is, uh, to, um, yeah, to not be in total respect of, uh, the females that are coming here and keeping sexual energy out.

Um, [01:11:00] greed is another one. If these guys are we're, you know, fundraising money and they're not using an exact for what they say they are. Um, and they're not using it for community projects, meaning they're using it for build themselves a house or to buy themselves a new pair of Nikes, which none of our elders do.

Again, gone, you're gone. You know, and, uh, the third one is those that, uh, you know, these elders have respect in their villages. They're loved in their village. They're not deified at all. You take them out in the Western world, you know, just as the human propensity of, uh, a Western society. It's like all of a sudden they're deified.

If they start believing the hype, that they are more than human and they develop that sort of ego, they're gone, the elders we work with, we've had to, out of all the elders ever we've ever worked with, we've had to [01:12:00] ask only, uh, to, to, to, uh, not work with us anymore. And, um, that is because, you know, really it feel guided that we've attracted these people that, you know, uphold these values as best they can.

Um, And, um, yeah, you know, this is, it's just really important for us, especially with the, the wounding and the trauma of our society, that the elders are not perpetuating any of this wounding, um, with, uh, with, uh, within their lives or the lives of others.

CK: What about wisdom? What's your death definition of wisdom?

Rudy: Well, I mean, look, I had, um, I think I told you in the, the ceremony I had the, the, um, the opportunity to, uh, do a, a diet, a three month diet with ya Navi, [01:13:00] who was the last remaining elder of the Yaa people from before the time of contact, he was a hundred, six years old. Wow. And what he would say is that the older I get, the more I know nothing.

And for me, that's wisdom, you know, You get someone who starts acting like they know something, none of our elders act like they know something, you know, uh, they have wisdom that was passed on to them, uh, through sacrifice through initiations. Um, and they don't act like they know more than someone. None.

That's one thing I definit only definitely really, really appreciate because you know, when I first came to this medicine into these ways, I'm like, well, I know more than all these unaware people. Like all the people are zombies, brain dead, wrong way to think about it, you know, wrong way to think about it.

It's like, [01:14:00] uh, humility is wisdom. Elder doesn't have humility. They don't have wisdom. Those two things are inseparable.

CK: One thing that, uh, so Nobel warrior again, using the dojo metaphor a lot. Uh, when, uh, when someone tells me they're a master, like automatically, I'm like, okay, so that's, that's a sign up.

How, how much of a master? You're not to me personally, but when, when someone approach it with humility, like black belts actually acting like a white belt still are curious to learn and, and then, you know, explore different aspects of things. To me, that's, that's, that's, that's an embody teacher. So when I meet the likes of, um, uh, right, and, and a lot of the masters that I've actually set with, you know, yes.

In ceremony, they definitely know how to hold space. Right. They're the, you know, master of ceremony literally, [01:15:00] and outside of it, just the level of like humility, the humanness, the, the joy there's no, like I'm the rock star, the ego kind of, you know, posturing. I really, really appreciate to me. That's the kind of teacher that I want to be with.

Rudy: Mm-hmm absolutely.

CK: Okay. So Boha foundation OA gathering super important role. From my perspective, making these gems of wisdom, timeless wisdom available to the Western world. And the question I have for you is let's see, where do we go from here in my mind?

The, your role is especially important, cuz you're actually getting. What it takes to communicate, collaborate well with multiple groups of people and then have them work seamlessly. [01:16:00] And I think that skill is so timely. So is so needed on a modern time today. Can you share a little bit about what you learned to make friends and have 'em collaborate in, in a, and build harmony in a wide diverse range group of people?

Rudy: Hmm.

That's a really good question.

I've actually never really thought about that. It's

CK: a, it's a, it's a unique superpower. And let me, maybe, while you think like, I'll give you a lot of context. Mm-hmm so I was the chief culture officer for a company of 250 people mm-hmm . And when I started doing this was very top down, we superimpose, right?

The founders and executive team impose. Well to the people. And one key lessons that we learn is that doesn't work.

our role is to [01:17:00] be the servant leaders to provide what our people need rather than superimposed a way into the people. Right? So, and the fact that really is aggressive to me is not only you work with one tribe, you work with many tribes of many cultures. How do you have, 'em all, you know, create harmony and working together.

That is extraordinary. So love to hear about what you actually learned, the skills to really harmonize, um, the human differences, the, the cultural differences.

Rudy: Well,

you know, I learned from. These leaders I'm going to their villages. You know, that's first off, you know, a lot of people always wanna work with indigenous elders, but the way you earn their trust is not by meeting them on. When they're on tour in Europe [01:18:00] or the United States, you need to go to their home, you need to live.

like they live. That's how you earn trust and respect. And so I didn't actually even think about that. I just wanted to go, but there were some places where we were like some of the first Westerners to arrive there, you know? Oh, everyone always says they wanna come. So now that I'm there, what do I, I observed the, the chief observed the elders, you know, the leader.

And what I see is someone that trusts the other people in the village to fulfill their role, you know, So you let the fishers men fish, you let the builders build, you let the cooks cook. You know what I mean? And, uh, also then to not be above any role, I mean, the second time I was in the first village we [01:19:00] ever started working with is, uh, place that it takes about eight days to arrive there from Los Angeles, many planes, long car ride, three to five days on a boat, their chief, um, you walked by the Maka we had, hadn't seen him for a while.

And so we arrived, you know, at night he said, oh, okay. Tomorrow come to my house at noon. And then we'll go to this very famous tree called the summer tree and we'll take hop, you know, and we'll play some music. Oh,

So we go there at noon and then he's not there. His wife though is, and she says, um, oh, Nino is not here. Well, where is he? He's cleaning the eco toilets, which quite literally is a shitty job, [01:20:00] you know, to clean the eco toilets is to pull out the, you know, the poop of all the people. And I'm thinking if another person in the village knew, like, was aware that, uh, this needed to be done, they would just do it for him without even thinking

the, if he asked one of the boys, Hey, go do this. Like the snap of his fingers, they would go do it. But he saw there was a need and he just did it. This is leadership that inspires people. The people that think they're above any sort of task, you're not gonna inspire people. People are gonna think, oh, you might be powerful.

That person might be, you know, have some, some wisdom, but it's by doing, by with humility, this is what we learn from our indigenous elders, cuz [01:21:00] really they all have this they'll sweep the floors. , you know, they'll pick up trash, whatever is needed. They'll stay, stay the longest. They'll give the best beds or sleeping arrangements to their, you know, they'll, they'll lower people in the village.

They'll sleep on the floor or havoc, you know, they'll let everyone eat real eaters eat last. My father used to tell me that real eaters eat last. So, you know, you see this and then trust people, you know, this was easy for me cuz it was like getting my haircut. I go get my haircut. I don't know how to cut hair.

This person went to school to cut hair. I tell 'em just, you know, make it shorter and make it look good. I never had a bad haircut trusting the professional, you know? And so I have this philosophy also work, like if I'm gonna hire someone to do, [01:22:00] uh, something it's because they have a skillset that I don't.

So I trust them, you know, I trust that their skillset is going to be, um, especially used for this mission. They're going to put their heart into it, you know, they're gonna do a good job. And, um, so this is the way that, uh, I feel we've been able to harmonize is really because we get to learn from these indigenous elders, how they lead, you know, and that's something I realized just this last time I was just in the rainforest, uh, For five weeks, uh, in February and the first week of March, March, um, my father was, uh, chief justice, the United States federal courts over 30 years.

And I learned a lot from him, very wise, man, very powerful man, a chief, a leader. But what I realized when I was there at [01:23:00] bank's, uh, center, my dad actually came to me in a ceremony and he said, I want you to thank bank for giving you something that I was not able to give you. And I said, what? He's like, well, we didn't have like take your son to work day.

So you didn't get the to watch how I led, saw me be a good father. You saw me like be a charitable man. You know, always made sandwiches for the poor volunteer. Different places. Saw me be a good caretaker of the home. Saw me be a humorous family member, but you didn't see how I led. And I thought about that because you know, the way indigenous kids in these communities learn is that they just go and shadow their elders.

Right. And, uh, we don't get to learn that way. We learn through books, you know, I mean, we still learn from watching, but we don't get to see our parents so much in their, [01:24:00] uh, in their roles. You know, we don't get to learn leadership really, uh, by observing. And I was like, wow. And so I told Banky this, you know, the next day, and my dad came to me and he was like, gave me a big smell.

He was like, that's, that's exactly how we learned. We learned to observation. And so that's the gift that I've been given vivine. And I is that when we go to these communities, we have to observe how a humble leader leads. And it's through that observation, that teaches is more than reading all the self-help books, you know, Not to say they don't help.

Those are great, you know, all these, all the literature and, and document documentaries and all these things all made. But the fastest way is to just observe is to observe a leader in his environment, how he functions. And so I give thanks and a lot of gratitude to having that opportunity with many of these different elders to see, observe how they learn, uh, lean, because that that's the way I can learn.

CK: I wanna [01:25:00] plant a seed with you, Rudy. My desire is to read a book about the management philosophy, the cultural building philosophy of these elders, uh, planning us see with you that I think you had a very privileged position to actually write that book, cuz I don't think any one elder is sufficient to, you know, you have that white angle lens, you could see.

The inter tribe dynamics and also the single tribe dynamic. Anyways, planting a

Rudy: sea. If you help me co-author maybe we can do it.

CK: Totally. I'm happy to do it. My superpower is asking powerful questions.

Rudy: I, I see that. That's why I'm asking you ask the questions and I can go and we can work on it like that.

CK: yeah. Um, one last segment I wanted to, to ask you then we'll probably complete here that, that question that open up this segment is this, you hold a very important role of bridging the indigenous [01:26:00] indigenous cultures to the Western world. And I think part of the, the way you articulate it, you said user group of people have been disor and discarded by the Western world.

So I, I think in many sense that's accurate. And your specific role in my, in my eyes is. How do you make their way of living relevant? Such that one, because when people, uh, can receive their way of, uh, living, thinking, doing things as valuable, then it's relevant, then they'll pull more resources into the Bo foundations, into the antiwar gatherings and so forth.

Right? So it's a very or role to bridge that gap to, to, to make their way of thinking relevant. So how do you think about this role of, you know, uh, bridging their way of living to, and, you know, uh, their, the, the, the householders [01:27:00] of the west, you know what I'm saying? Kinda like the monastic whale living and, and the householders.

Rudy: This is a very good question, CK. And, uh, it is incredibly relevant because Vivian and I, uh, again, my, my mission partner here have pondered this since the beginning. Because the answer is not to sell all your possessions and go live in a hut in the rainforest. Right. Everyone can't do that. So what is the answer?

And the answer is quite simple. It's a synthesis, it's a synthesis of the ancient and the modern. And you see in these indigenous villages, the ones that we support they're synthesizing are they renouncing their beliefs and, uh, you know, [01:28:00] running to a church like a Christian Church? No. Are they, um, you know, taking desk jobs, creating desk jobs in their computers?

No. What are they doing now? They're welcoming solar power into their communities. The welcoming eco showers, eco toilets are tea and Wells. So their water can be purified. They're welcoming all this Western innovation that we have created, which is really good, you know, which is sustainable. They've welcomed guitars.

Guitars were not part of their culture. You saw how well the guitar that is a sign of peace on their behalf. There's a sign of forgiveness for the Western world by adopting the good things that we've created. They're saying we reconcile the past energy of colonization with you. We forgive you and we accept the good things that you have created because we Western [01:29:00] society.

Isn't all bad. We're not all bad. And for us Westerners, we have forgotten something that they've maintained, which is we forgot. Our sacred relationship with the elements, water, air, fire earth. We forgot how to, um, um, exalt our ancestors, how to pray to our ancestors, those that walk before us, those that struggled so that you and I might be here today and have the modicum of comfort that we do in this time.

You know, we forgot, um, you know, really largely how to live a spiritual life. And so we can take these downloads that we receive from them, this healing, this room me. And [01:30:00] once we have those within us, our inspiration, our creation changes, you know, it's like very simple for me. It's like, uh, remembering what is sacred.

And once you can recognize what is sacred and you remember what is sacred, then it becomes, um, how do you nurture and protect that? Which is sacred. Someone has this understanding that embodies this understanding, and it's a journey. It's not like all of a sudden you room sacred and that's it. You know, I've been doing this, like I said, 11 years.

And I feel like maybe I'm 5% understanding of sacred, you know, maybe less , but I'm, I'm, I'm there, I'm on the path, you know? So now the things that come outta me, my inspiration, my creation, my ideas, they have that embodiment of [01:31:00] sacred in it. So I'm not thinking about creating things that separate society.

I'm not thinking about things of creating things that distract society. I'm not thinking about creating things that create more inequality. I'm not thinking about things that create only personal wealth for myself. You know? So if we can take this remembrance from these indigenous that haven't forgot sacred, the things that will come through us, our ideas, our concepts, our inventions, our innovations, our politics will change.

You know, our philosophy will change and it's all gonna change for the better, but we need to synthesize this remembrance of sacred into our city lives. You know, bank says you wanna change the world, planet a tree, simple. Everyone can plant a tree. Everyone can make a plant, a plant, you know, even people live in, in, you know, vertical places [01:32:00] like New York and, um, , you know, start taking care of something like that, like a, having a connection to something that you're growing, that's a synthesis.

And, um, so I feel like that's the, the take home for all the city people is when we encounter these indigenous ways, the spirituality to help us, us to use this, to help us remember what is sacred. Yeah. You know,

CK: I wanna plant another seed cuz one of the passing comment that you made is people come to ceremonies.

They're inspired by the culture. They're inspired by the transmission of these elders and oftentimes they go home and nothing happens. Right. And what you just share in my mind, that's the bridge, another book, uh, to tell them what are the microsteps. They can take on, going from [01:33:00] Confucius said means self mastery, family, country, world, that's Confucius teaching.

And in my mind, it's very fractal. So if you can give them actionable steps that they can take to protect the sacred it to, well, actually first and foremost, clarify, what's sacred for them and then protect and nurture the sacred, teach them these microsteps in my mind, that would make the bridge of the indigenous cultural way of living to the Mo modern, you know, householders, how they can embrace the sacred grid.

You know what I'm saying?

Rudy: In indeed, I, I totally understand that, you know, the mamos the, uh, Ottawa, uh, they live in the Seattle Nevadas of Columbia high, high up there. And the first time I went and visited them and they said, uh, you wanna be spiritual [01:34:00] sweep, the floors, wash your dishes. But when you are doing this wash racism away from this planet, sweep, sweep, racism, mm.

Off this planet, everything is a prayer. Everything is sacred. I used to hate like, uh, folding laundry, for instance, you know, I didn't mind putting it in, but it was done the folding and the socks. I said, okay, well, I'm gonna do this. And I'm gonna like, organize, use it to like organize a prayer to organize.

Um, the good things in life. So you start looking at these mundane tasks, everything can be a prayer. So when you wake up in the morning, you look at your bed and you're like, eh, I'm gonna sleep in it again tonight. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna fix it. No, you fixed that with the prayer, you know, I'm, I'm [01:35:00] organizing good things in this world so that, you know, good things can, can vibrate at a higher, more profound level, you know, and you're looking at the dishes.

I don't wanna do 'em it's like no clean the dishes, but like I said, you're cleaning racism off this planet, you know? And so like, uh, this is very simple integration and these little things, these mundane tasks, which are not mundane, we only make them mundane. Yeah. And that's like, that's like a, you know, as a, a, a Mexican peyote, Rhoda man says once said to me, he's like, you gotta flip the Toria man.

It's like, you know, it's like, we have it on one side, but all you need to do is flip it to the other side and. Reverse how you look at it, you know? And so it's like the thing you look at these mundane tasks, you flip the tortilla to their side, and now it's a prayer, it's anything but a mundane task, [01:36:00] it's all perception, right?

An intention.

CK: Mm. Speaking of, um, on this side of empowering the indigenous to share their stories, their culture with the rest of the world. One thing that's is really clear to me, as you know, I'm a householder. What looking in is music artifacts. These are very accessible ways to grasp, you know, um, this inspire idea of, you know, being part of the embracing, the indigenous thought and philosophy.

Um, I know that you had shared with me, they have modernized, you know, getting wifi and then doing more lives as a way to share their culture. The way, the more they share their culture in a way that's relevant to the Western world, the more people will care about them. Right. So can you share a little bit about how they are using modern [01:37:00] technologies and production techniques and music theories and things like that to really help them amplify their beautiful way of living that beautiful way of creating music and art with the rest of the world?

Rudy: I mean, uh, this old Lakota chief said, uh, it great to me, this is years and years ago, he says, I can't imagine if crazy horse had a cell phone and he could like direct his troops by sending messages like that, you know? And, um, you see these guys, you know, and most of our leaders are very careful how they adapt technology, cuz they don't wanna get lost in it.

You know, so if there's wifi, the it's on at a certain point in time, but then it's, you know, it's off so that they're not just sitting there [01:38:00] getting lost in TikTok or Instagram or something, um, or worse, you know? And, um, but here we are, you know, with this connection to the outside world, that they can share their message, particularly during COVID when no one could travel to visit them and they couldn't travel out to visit anybody.

It was like, here's their link to the outside world to show that they're still there to show that they're okay to show that they're, you know, um, still praying for us still living as they did before to garner funds for them. You know, because the majority of the income is coming in through, uh, either them hosting people or.

You know, events when they go, uh, on fundraising, you know, out fundraising. So very helpful, um, you know, to sell their art something simple, man, like when we first went to Neno village, [01:39:00] no electricity, no toilets, no. Well, I mean the hots, most of them didn't have sides. It was just a roof. And it's like, when they got solar power, now the women could stay up past sundown to create art.

So it's like it wasn't over just cuz the sun went down, this was a revelation, this was a gotten send. They could make so much more art cuz they have so many tasks that they need to complete during the day with cooking, cleaning and raising kids and all this stuff that you know, now they get to do, uh, spend more time in something that is like more of a, a passion, you know, more of a hobby, uh, a creative outlet such as making the be work and a.

Other woven things and whatever, unlike, you know, that was solar power that gave them that opportunity. You know, I didn't even consider that until they're like, oh, we we're so excited. We can do art. And then some of the other guys, well, and we can practice [01:40:00] music later, you know? Cause when we're learning a new song, we can't play that song in the dark know, we need to be able to see our fingers.

Well, now we can practice later. Mm. And so, um, you know, these simple things like this, which, you know, I can say on, on my behalf, I, I often took for granted, uh, changes the quality of life, um, tremendously for some of these, uh, remote indigenous villages and, um, yeah.

And, um, you know, I think, um, Slowly, but surely there's more that are getting interested in film. You know, they see like professional crews and amateur photographers or filmmakers that come and go, and this is really important [01:41:00] cuz you know, I, I encourage them strongly, but we want them to be able to share their own narrative and see that of, uh, an observer of the culture from the outside.

Cuz no matter how close we are until an observer through the lens with them, it is the culture is a view from inside the culture. So we've um, been part of programs, which is, you know, brought people there who have given workshops on filmmaking and things like this. And you're starting to see more of an interest from them to document their own experience.

I mean the school quo is a great, great example. The guy's got like 40,000 Instagram followers. He's really taken this tool of Instagram and used it to amplify his message, you know? And, um, he gives news, you know, from there about what's happening, that you're not gonna be able to read into any paper, even in a, in a Brazilian newspaper, he gives accurate news.

He's sharing also, you know, funny stuff you [01:42:00] occasionally, so he is got humor and then he's sharing wisdom, uh, from his people philosophy. And, um, you know, he's really a prime example of someone that's used social media to really create, um, a big presence and, uh, and, um, a strong voice for not just the OWA people, but for indigenous people, uh, in his state of, and for indigenous people everywhere, you know, he's harnessed that tool.


CK: so, so let's double click on that for a bit. You know, you had mentioned him, um, Let's see, how do I articulate it? I want to say it in a way that's useful. Okay. So he has a mission. He's the chief of his people, 300 of his people, right? So he's not only the spiritual leader, but also the actual CEO basically right.

Of the mm-hmm overlooking the infrastructures and everything. Um, do you [01:43:00] believe that having media training or learning English, the universal language, so to speak, so then that way his message would be out more broadly to the world in a, in a way that's more effective inefficient.

Rudy: Yeah. This is why he's not learning English, you know?

Um, because he understands that this is going to open up many things, you know? So he's really taking this as a, as a big mission. And, uh, I really appreciate about him because there's. A lot of leaders from his state of that have, you know, they're much older than him. They've been traveling much longer than him.

And it's like, they just like English. They're like, eh, you know,

we don't care so much, you know, but I appreciate it about his school because you really saw how much this is going to open things up [01:44:00] when he can articulate himself directly. Because with translation, you know, there's a pause. Sometimes people lose focus. I see it. You know, they just lose presence.

Sometimes they get lost in the story, you know? So yeah, I'm really, um, pleased with the F that he's made. Um, and you know, I, at this point, I don't think he doesn't need a translator for most stuff.

CK: oh yeah. Just a mental barrier to actually speak.

Rudy: I think, yeah, because he understands, I've had meetings with him where I've spoke for 45 minutes to an hour, all in English.

He understood everything, you know, no translation necessary. Mm. Um, so now it's just like, I think, like be more comfortable, you know, how his, uh, yeah,

CK: my immigrants, I only get it. There, there is a leap of faith. One you should take in just jump and start speaking kind of a thing. So, yeah.

Rudy: Yeah. I I'm in that place [01:45:00] with Portuguese where it's like, I understand a lot and it's just like, I wanna use a translator all the time instead of like, I wanna be kind of like, yeah.

Shy about it, you know, so lazy, if you will, sometimes, you know, is

CK: that cur actually, so let's say double click on that. Does the courage of sitting in medicine really staring into your own shadows? Does that translate to, um, linguistic, you know, skill acquisition?

Rudy: I would say yes. Okay. I would say yes, because.


you know, my, my, my mission partner, Vivian she's Brazilian. Mm. But she lived 10 years in London, so she learned how to speak. And she was a, a model and an actress. So she spoke perfect English. Mm-hmm was a profession. Mm-hmm obviously she'd be sports. She, she also spoke French, Spanish and Italian for that matter.

Wow. So I had the bad, she's probably one of the top translators in the world. [01:46:00] I mean, she's crystal, crystal clear mm-hmm and precise. So I'm always with her. And I like to be precise with my words in English. So I use her cuz I know that she can relay the message precisely. Mm . And um, I'm spending three months, a year in Brazil, you know, hearing Portuguese plus having these guys on tour for another two months.

It's like I'm around Portuguese speakers, five months of the year and I'm not speaking. Mm. Once I really, this coincided with me really feeling like that my spirit was fully in my body. Again, it's like all of a sudden, I just start speaking Portuguese. Mm. Like I had been absorbing so much without the confidence to like put it to use now was I speaking fluently conversation?

No. Could I handle conversations? Similar conversations? Absolutely. So I do think [01:47:00] it correlates to be honest with you. I really do. Mm mm. Obviously you need time to, to learn and practice, but yeah.

CK: You know, as any skill acquisitions, um, as it requires, uh, courage, right. That worry spirit to just, just, just leap.

Yeah. Rudy, I really, really appreciate our conversation. My friend, uh, let me just take a moment to just acknowledge you, sharing your story. Your mission to bridge the indigenous culture in this Western world? I think at a time today, especially the, our mind is so, um, mere with chaotic thoughts, internal and external, right?

Navigate the internal space of addiction to inner freedom and the external world of external chaos and not to get mired with [01:48:00] fear, actually, and do the part that we can from self mastery, family country, world, the, the methodologies, the practices is the wisdom that you gather, uh, from the indigenous elders is so, um, much needed today.

So thank you so much for leaning in, into your warrior spirit. And then creating a platform like Aniwa and the boa foundations really, um, provide massive value, timeless value to, um, the Western world. Thank you so much for the work that you do.

Rudy: How's house brother. I enjoyed myself very much, uh, and appreciated, uh, your line of questioning as well.

Like I said, there's been some questions I hadn't thought about, which gives me some stuff to think about going forward as well. Um, so thank you. Thank you. Thank you for this opportunity to share a little bit about, uh, [01:49:00] about the mission we have here at Aniwa and the Bo foundation. And I know we'll see you, um, future some of our other events and, uh, yeah.

To everyone that took the time to listen. Just many blessings. Thank you.

CK: So guys, um, go out to aniwa.co and check out the next Aniwa gathering. As you said, this is the rainbow warrior bootcamp in BOA foundations, you feel so inspired to, um, provide, um, your assistance to the cause. Until the next time. Thanks for listening.