July 6, 2022

137 John Gray: Practical Tactics to Be More Masculine

My next guest is John Gray. He is the author of the most well-known and trusted relationship book of all time, Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus. USA Today listed his book as one of the top 10 most influential books of the last quarter-century. In hardcover, it was the #1 best-selling book of the 1990s. Dr. Gray’s books are translated into approximately 45 languages in more than 100 countries and continues to be a bestseller.

Dr. Gray has written over 20 books. His most recent book is Beyond Mars and Venus: Relationship Skills for Our Complex Modern World. His Mars/Venus book series has forever changed the way men and women view their relationships.

John helps men and women better understand and respect their differences in both personal and professional relationships. His approach combines specific communication techniques with healthy, nutritional choices that create the brain and body chemistry for lasting health, happiness, and romance.

His many books, blogs, and free online workshops at MarsVenus.com provide practical insights to improve relationships at all stages of life and love. An advocate of health and optimal brain function, he also provides natural solutions for overcoming depression, anxiety, and stress to support increased energy, libido, hormonal balance, and better sleep. 

He has appeared repeatedly on Oprah, as well as on The Dr. Oz Show, TODAY, CBS This Morning, Good Morning America, and others. He has been profiled in Time, Forbes, USA Today, and People. He was also the subject of a three-hour special hosted by Barbara Walters.



 📚 Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus

📥 Want more deep discussions like this? Join our newsletter

🤯 Want the CK notes of these conversations, follow me on TikTok @thecklin

Join the FREE Noble Warrior Facebook Group --> Here


CK Lin: [00:00:00] My next guest is Dr. John Gray is the author of men are from Mars. Women are from Venus.

He has spent over 40 years about gender differences and written over 24 books. His books has been translated into 45 languages. A hundred countries. So millions of copies, his most recent book is beyond Mars and Venus you relationship skills for our complex modern world. I can go on and on and on, but, uh, you know, I'm just super excited as could see.

Right. I can't even contain myself. Please walk on Dr. John Gray.

John Gray: Thank you so much. It's it? CK is that that's right. Okay. CK central pleasure to be with you and happy to talk about this subject. Even the idea, noble warrior, um, it's such a cool thing to be focusing on. I'm really happy to be a part of your events.

CK Lin: Well, actually, you know, essence, I have you here. If you don't mind, what's your interpretation of Nobel warrior? Just [00:01:00] that

John Gray: phrase. Well, I'm going to sound very sexist. It's pure masculinity, man. Not that a woman can't be a noble warrior, but that's a woman on our male side, right? Uh, and if a woman is a noble warrior, she's also very happy, loving noble warrior.

The man is a noble warrior. He's developing his full potential to be of service and selflessness and achieve in this world and for others. And that's what makes you feel really good? You know, as a guy, I think back, I can think back at all the things that were difficult, where there was resistance and I overcame it, those are my, my great hero moments and it was for the others.

And then I guess, putting it in the theme that you talked about, you know, achievement and legacy, uh, I mean, for me, legacy is, is, is kind of like, uh, every day I want to leave this world a little better than it was. I want to be of health service. And, you know, you talked a little bit about purpose and it takes a [00:02:00] while to find your purpose and, you know, that's our trial and error.

Journey. And for me, it's been a lot of hardships, a lot of mountains to climb a lot of valleys to fall into, but to overcome those, realizing that it's through challenge that we as men, we grow, if we, if our life is too comfortable, too easy, we easily become addicted to pleasures. To pornography, to games, to playing to laziness is that we have to do something that, uh, it's not always difficult, but every life is still with difficulties and we don't run from them as they arise through them.


CK Lin: beautiful articulation. Um, to me, warrior means it's not so much to fight the outer world per se, to me warrior the definition of it is the willingness to lean into discomfort to me, that's warrior spirit.

John Gray: Absolutely. That's really beautiful leaning into the discomfort that we feel inside. Uh, it's the willingness to [00:03:00] separate ourselves from animals, which is our ability to self-reflect.

And there'll be a brutally honest and intelligent about self-reflection to not hide from ourselves, but to see our imperfections and our flaws and our dark spots and, uh, to feel shame, but then to let it go by committing to change. That's how you let go of shame. You know, if you look a lot of religions, they said, look, we're not perfect.

We all know we're not perfect, but it's only by looking at when a perk, the parts of us that are not perfect, that show up that we, a noble warrior is able to reflect on that and then change over contract tendency. So one thing is your resistance to what's inside. And that also is a reflection of our resistance to do what we think is the right thing in the outside world.

You know, I have to squeeze in and our topics that you're guiding me to, which I'm happy to do, uh, but you know, my expertise and my purpose to help men and women understand each other better. And a lot of men [00:04:00] listening and. One of the least noble things you can do is use anger to get what you want to know that at least in our world today, um, sometimes violence is necessary in order to solve a problem in a violent world, but we're something beyond animals as we're evolving to communication, learning how to communicate effectively.

And if we just look in our own relationships, uh, if we can realize that there's a hormonal difference between men and women, and I'm going to talk a lot about our differences in whatever. And some people say, oh, you're just being sexist. And I go, actually, we are different as men and women. So if I talk about differences between men and women doesn't mean I'm a sexist.

It means I understand how many women are different. A sexist is someone who puts down the opposite sex. You know, a man who diminishes women, uh, in a diminishing judgemental, uh, putting down way is sexist. A woman to me, I see women is if you want to use the termination for sexist is women of the [00:05:00] sexist today.

The feminists today are massive sexist because they're always undermining men. You know, men could just be more like women we'd have a better world. That's nonsense. If men could be noble warriors, we'd have a better world. And if women could be loving mothers and happy fulfilled wives, we'd have a better world.

And certainly women to be happy, fulfilled, wives are dependent upon noble warriors and noble warriors are actually dependent upon their mother's love. They're dependent upon, uh, a country that supports them and appreciate. Uh, society that acknowledges and values mints efforts in their toils and their challenges that we overcome.

We just take it for granted. You know, it's like, uh, mentioned, bring out the trash, you know, if there's a storm, the man should get on the roof and clean it up. You know, if there's a dispute with the neighbors, you go down and talk to them, you know, it's like, uh, and Grantly said, we go, yeah, I'll do that. And that's because we're noble warriors, you know, we do what needs to be done, no matter how we feel.

We don't just follow our feelings all the time. Usually if you just follow your feelings instead of what you think and what you think is right, and what is [00:06:00] noble, which is your character. And that's why I liked the whole theme of noble warrior. We don't really talk about that so much today. The ability of masculinity, the dignity of honest work.


CK Lin: that's actually one thing I really appreciate about you, John, just throughout your, uh, your books, your interviews, your teachings. I never actually got any of the, um, And you kind of like sexist vibes at all. It's really about, as you said, highlighting our differences, such that we have the capacity to respect each other.

John Gray: You know, it's articulating our differences for two reasons. One is to articulate our differences in a positive way to give message to that, instead of what was called sexist in the past is articulating our differences in a negative way. And then holding people back due to those pre-judging them, or even a society that holds people back from being themselves, according to their sex, just like today, according to their color, you know, we should be colorblind [00:07:00] from that perspective, but we should still reward people based on their merit.

And when it comes to men and women, you can't be colorblind. In this sense, you've got to recognize a woman is different from a man and there's ways that provide the support she needs, which may not be always what you need as a man. So I was about to give one piece of advice to every man listening is when your wife is talking, ask questions and don't talk about.

And if you're angry, stop talking and go somewhere. Do not talk when you're angry, because one of the things that masculinity, the Nobel warrior comes forth, the potential is there. When we're, when biologically we're making testosterone, anytime you're confident and confidence allows you to move through resistance, right?

I can do this. I'll do it. Uh, in have resistance. I know I got to do it. I'll do it. So that's the confidence allows us to move forward, to be our best self. Whenever you're confident your testosterone goes up. When you lose confidence, your testosterone goes down and your estrogen goes up. Now, what are testosterone?

[00:08:00] Estrogen? Well, biologically, you can go online, just look at what, what the normal range of testosterone is for men. And it's 10 times more than the normal range for women. 10 times more as means normal means pretty much happy person, right? So men have 10 times more testosterone and everything to do with being a Nobel warrior raises testosterone.

Now, when your testosterone goes up, You can handle your estrogen going up. Cause they're like a Seesaw. Okay. When testosterone goes up, that means like another example of testosterone is I can do it. And that's an example of estrogen is I need help. Okay. So a number of warriors says I can do it and if I need help, I'll get it.

But first I'll see if I can do it. So you've got, it's not like you're denying that I need help is that you can say, if I can do it myself, just do it myself. That's testosterone. And then there's estrogen now for a woman. It's just the opposite. It's just shocking for women. The healthy range for estrogen is 10 times [00:09:00] more than a man and estrogen.

And this book is good, really good book to read called beyond Mars and Venus. I list qualities that produce testosterone and I list qualities of who we are as human beings to produce estrogen. Now I have all those qualities, but if I'm stressed, it means I need to come back to my male. And if you're a woman and you're not happy, come back to your female side.

Don't complain. Your partner is not making you happy. And for me as a man, don't complain, my wife's not happy. Making me feel good. I need to make myself feel good. Which is why you share with me. This show is about achievement because it's a man's ability to achieve that raises testosterone. Then if that day you fail and making your wife happy, it's no big deal.

Cause you're already got plenty of testosterone. So you're you're okay. I'll just, I'll just do what I need to do for me. So we don't want to be so needy with women. We want to be independent. And when you're feeling good, then you can need the high state of ecstasy you experience with making [00:10:00] love, having a woman's love, having a woman care for you.

Sweet, sweet things. You know, it's not destiny. It's not designed our bodies. Aren't designed for testosterone to go down. This is the normal average. It's not supposed to be that way. I'm seven years old. My testosterone levels are 50% higher than a young man. That's it? It goes up as you go older, if you understand what noble warrior is all about, which is selflessness, practicality, study effort, overcoming challenges.

And as you do that gradually also increasing your estrogen, which means you get good at things. Then it's not so hard. Like right now I'm working hard today. You know, I started in the morning nonstop. I do this, I love it. I write a book either 15 hours. You know, I love it because I'm good at if you're good at something you love doing it.

And thank, thank you. Thanks to God. If you can find something you're good at and you get paid for it, that would be great. So one thing,

CK Lin: I [00:11:00] mean, I want to get into this attack testosterone conversation, um, because you know, there's an over overall trend that even people in their twenties have lower testosterone than previous two decades.

I think you

John Gray: cited that how Hamama shallower it's 40% or 50% lower. Yeah. And

CK Lin: then, so, so, so some tactics that we hear from in the men's circle is you, you live have your ways, you use a transcript or cream, you use herbal supplements. And I wanted to know if you have other suggestions, tactical suggestions to help.

John Gray: I put a lot of emphasis on what I teach, which is behavioral change. Okay. That's the main thing in my, as in the mind, so in the body, but the truth is also so in the body. So in the mind, you know, in the sixties, you take LSD, your mind is affected. Okay. You have all different experience of life. Uh, so, and once you've done it, you never come down on one level.

It's like, at least you wake up and know there's [00:12:00] something more than this. So I recommend all these mind, all three things, a little bit, my personal thing. I'm not like doing it all the time. I never do it. I rarely do it. But particularly when I was in back in the sixties, I did it. And that's what set me on my path.

I realized there's more to this box. They put me in. So having said that, I forgot the question. You asked me,

CK Lin: uh, ways to increase testosterone.

John Gray: They had talking about all this data. You forget everything. You're not in his world. So ways to increase testosterone, I'll briefly say as in the body. So in the mind, because there are herbs that have known for thousands of years, But it takes the mind to make those herbs work.

Okay. So let's say I, but you know, let's say I have all the, I, the idea ingredients to feel good, my mind, but my body's totally inefficient and nutrients, then I won't feel good. And, but you get all the nutrients, but you just hate yourself or hate somebody else resenting somebody else. You're bored. You're frustrated.

You're not doing your purpose. You're too weak. You got addictions. All of that [00:13:00] stuff, you got all those mental things going on. You can take the supplements and not gonna do much. All right. So take testosterone is a real losers game. Your balls will shrink your lose your ability to make testosterone. So rather than take testosterone, you make testosterone.

So now how to make testosterone, there are some herbs that kick estrogen out of your body and by kicking estrogen out of your body, estrogen pushes testosterone down. So if you kick estrogen out. You're not using the herbs to make hormone using the herbs to kick estrogen out. Your body can more efficiently make testosterone.

Uh, so you want to have, uh, we know zinc is very important. I take zinc every day. I've been doing it for forever. Uh, zinc is necessary to make testosterone herbs that make testosterone the very best. His tone caught Ali, without question, I've tested it all. I've done all this stuff with people. I can't even take it or otherwise I have erection all day.

Okay. So I mean, [00:14:00] this stuff is if your, if your mind, if your lifestyle and your thinking and your self-esteem and your actions produce testosterone, you can even take these herbs, but the kickstart your body, if you haven't been making enough and part of why the younger generation. Part of it's a complex picture.

You know, there's never one cost for anything. Keep that in mind. But Tom cot, Ali is, uh, has other names. There are about 5,000 different libido products online and every one of them has tone caught Ali in it. Cause that's your Kickstarter. And it's the most expensive one. So get a good quality tone. Caught Ali.

I used to have a health food store. I had the best, I don't have it anymore. So, but you want to get something that's, it's a capsule with powder in it. I've seen that the, the actual pills don't do much at all capsule powder cone caught Ali. All right. That's really good to take and just take double whatever they say on the bottle for awhile, but that's only a little piece of the problem.

Okay. That's a little bit of the solution. Also. You need zinc [00:15:00] what what's causing the problem that we're gonna look at causes. Cause when you eliminate, you know, if I keep hitting my head with that, I'm going to have headaches, right? And you can give me an aspirin, but it's not going to do fin medicine. So those are the causes of knocking testosterone down one simple one.

If you're in a relationship and you express anger out loud, your testosterone goes down. If you complain out loud, your testosterone goes down. Anytime you complain out loud, you're creating a pathway in your brain to make estrogen that your go-to is that you see a complaint as a negative way of getting help.

So suck it up and don't complain. Do it yourself. And if you need to get help, ask for help, but not with a complaint, you know, you can say, why did you do that? You didn't do this. You should've done that. That's complaining. You know, you can say, Hey, next time, it's not a big deal. Whenever you say, it's not a big deal.

You're making testosterone. Anytime you're thinking it's a big deal. I'm really upset about this. You're making estrogen and every. You're growing pathways. [00:16:00] Cause why do you make a big deal to somethings what women do all the time, but they need to make estrogen. That's why they do it. Like, but when guys learned to do that, I haven't learned what it means to be a man.

Suck it up and do the difficult. Okay. Don't complain. Don't whine. Uh, that there's a place for it. You know, if you're processing what's going on inside, you do it privately, you know, with a therapist you're feeling hurt, you're feeling sad. You're disappointed. Don't share that with the intimate partner in your life.

Cause she'll become your mother. And she, a little boy now, a little boy from the ages of two to 13 has the estrogen levels of the little girl. We're supposed to be more in touch with our emotions as little as a little girl, as a little boy. And that's where all of our trauma lies in those years at puberty, it goes up five to 10 times.

Unfortunately, today it's not fully doing that and we don't come out that the little boy when he comes out of the. Normally speaking prior to this big change in the [00:17:00] last, uh, 10 years, 20 years, uh, normally a little baby boy has the testosterone levels of a grown man for two years. And that forms your male brain.

But today we don't have that so much. Uh, this is if your mother's more on her male side and you know, she's independent, that's your male side. Okay. Boys tend to come out without as much testosterone, generally speaking. So that's one thing your mother had drank from plastic bottles. Plastic bottles are what Gulf hormone disruptors never drank from a plastic bottle or at least avoid it.

You know, I always go for the glass bottle of possible. If you're in public, you have to get water. Tap water is terrible too, but at least it doesn't have plastic. Okay. So there's. Plastic bottle heats up. You get these PCBs. I think they're called and they're called endocrine disruptors and they will inhibit your body from making testosterone.

They bind with your estrogen [00:18:00] receptor sites. Also, anytime you eat foods with GMOs, GMOs were introduced prior to this all lowering of testosterone and the major causes. What a GMO does is it binds. It's a pesticide and our foods, and it will bind with our receptor sites in our body. Now we all have estrogen receptor sites.

Females just have more, right. They make more, they need more to make babies. So, but when those GMOs come into our body, they're called Xeno estrogens. You're not making the estrogen. It's like taking estrogen. Okay. So a man taking estrogen, what happens? He get man boobs. Okay. And this test doctrine will go down as the reason.

Ironically, if you take testosterone, which is too high, your testosterone shoots up, it converts into estrogen and you get man boobs. So you don't want to go too high with your testosterone. That's taking testosterone and that's when you get really angry and you get aggressive, that's making testosterone, but it's making a [00:19:00] huge amount of estrogen at the same time, because you're not cool, calm and collected, uh, mentioned watch movies, uh, these wonderful, uh, Kung Fu movies, watching Asian men who have been trained to suck up their emotions and tolerate pain without re.

Uh, you, so you see, you know, it, this was really the way it was. I mean, the Kings, the noble guys, there's always the monkey people or steal and be violent, whatever. But if you look at the Kings and the real Royal people, the leaders of these people, these were noble warriors, they don't get upset about anything.

They only do what is best for society. And yes, killing is a part of that because you have to protect, but they won't do unnecessary killing. And they, uh, they don't get angry. They don't cry. They don't get upset. They do what has to be done. And that's pure masculinity. Now that's not for your generation.

You're a higher consciousness generation. The higher consciousness is [00:20:00] able to be both detached and attached at the same time. Uh, that's feeling compassion for someone, but not. See, I don't, I don't feel sorry for anybody. I mean, this world is so stupid right now. Uh, I'm really angry. I do get angry. I'm not gonna get angry, direct at somebody, but I feel my anger.

I'm not gonna act on it, but even now, when I talk about how I have compassion, uh, rather than anger, I do have anger that they're giving shots to children. Okay. This is, they don't need it. They're side-effects we know that this is not good and there's a lot more going on that he gets off. What is it? Uh, not allowed to speak about so we won't go there.

But the reality is, so let me ask

CK Lin: you this, John. So in terms of, cause you updated your model, right? It's been, it's been a few, it's been a few years since you wrote a first. How has the model been updated or not, but talk that

John Gray: book. I see. That's what this book is. It's the updated version is a, and [00:21:00] we'll come back to testosterone.

Okay. It's a big subject. Let's I know you want the update. The update is men have low male side women have low female side. So my job now is to have women know, how can they help boost a man's testosterone men, just what we're talking about. How can men boost their testosterone, restore masculinity and women can do is restore femininity and your role in helping to restore femininity.

And that's called protecting the female from herself and that noble warrior put in the warriors really protector. The protector is to protect her from herself. And how do you do that? As soon as you're angry, she becomes a Royer to protect herself. If you're angry, stop talking, take time to cool off and do something to raise your testosterone.

We'll talk more about how to do that. Don't argue, don't fight. Don't any of that stuff. That's a wimp. You're a pussy. I say this because I'm talking to men mostly, you know, you want dignity, you become quiet and they say, what are you [00:22:00] feeling? What are you feeling? I need to think about this. I don't think, well, I think this is not a time for me to say more.

I need to cool off, or I need some time to think about what you said and go back and think about it and come back to feeling good and loving again. Because once you get your testosterone up, that means I'm cool, calm, and collected. Then this enlightened part of you, your estrogen side can rise up. So that's one way.

It's one of the ways we hit ourselves with a hammer is we argue with women and we act out of aggression. We act out of anger. We cry is to see I'm in the camp of, you know, suck it up and don't whine. Do you think any military person go, go line up, become a, a young 18 year old. You're going to go off to war and become a responsible.

They'd line you up and they abuse you and you have to suck it up and not react. You have to learn not to let your reactive mind control you so powerful. And you have, yeah, it really

CK Lin: key point here. Cause in my mind, it's the balancing of the ying and the [00:23:00] yang. And then if it's, it's not to just, Hey, let me not to express myself.

It's actually being a bit, find the inner harmony in the middle and it's also make it situational appropriate.

John Gray: Okay. Yes, absolutely. And anytime you're angry at your spouse, your partner, your family member, or somebody you love, you're trying to use anger to change them when you should use love to change them.

Okay. And so you have, and what is love for a woman? If you're talking about women listening three skills for guys to walk away with, help me understand that better. Tell me what else. Just tell me more. Tell me more and what is. Learn how to listen and not react and not react. And they, they're your big testing.

I said, what do you feel what's going on inside of you? Well, I'm trying to understand you. I think, I think you have a right to feel what you're feeling or it's very interesting to me what you're saying, and I want to hear more and I just don't let them pull you out. Then you'd be good in the friend zone, then your estrogen goes up.

Then you can't get an [00:24:00] erection after three times, you know, it just, this is what's happening. We have infinite 21 years. It didn't exist on the planet to be an infinite 21 year, and they're not impeded with porn. So the next thing, while you're hitting yourself in the head with a hammer, anytime you masturbate to porn, you are going down, down, down as a number one, estrogen stimulator in males.

So let's look at some research. I'm not just a more or less. I masturbated as a kid, whatever, not like kids today. You know, Playboy, when I was growing up was a girl and her underwear, you know, didn't have lace, you'd look like a bathing suit today. Didn't even look that sexy. That was such a turn on silver, exciting, you know, and you'd masturbate and hide it and shame all that.

You know what I masturbation has shame associated with it because too much is soul killing. It weakens you all weak men masturbate. Okay. That's weakness. That's over emotionality. Uh, when you ejaculate, what causes ejaculation is your estrogen levels are you're enjoying it. Anytime you enjoy something. Oh, I [00:25:00] love this.

This feels so good. Oh my God. I wrote a book on, uh, add and porn. How porn creates add in the male brain watch I had to watch porn just watching it. I never masturbate I'm in a monogamous relationship. I have sex several times a week. I feel great. Not looking at anybody at fantastic sex are you're kidding.

So, but what did that board either masturbate just came on me. You know, it just like it takes you it's cocaine. It's cocaine. You can't look at it. You can't even see. Okay. So what, what happens there is now let me give you some research, not a moral thing, but the reason it always was immoral to masturbate was because it sucks the life out of you.

And it's natural to do occasionally when your body says, I really need to do this, but if you've watched porn in your life, you didn't need to do it. Your body's addicted to porn, and now you have an addiction and now you think, oh, my body needs to masturbate. No. You know, maybe once a week, if you're a, you know, a younger person, [00:26:00] uh, as you get older, like I'm 70.

If I ever needed to masturbate because I didn't have sex, it would be actually, I would never need to what I've learned. And you takes a long time to learn this, but I've learned how to have orgasms without ejaculating. Okay. So I'd never ejaculate. I'd plan to live at least 132 years I'm using because I have so much sex without ejaculating.

CK Lin: Is it more about that actually, because that's a really, um, you know, I'm Chinese. So I know about the Dallas practice. So for the people who is a little bit skeptical about, about this, since you're a lot more articulate and knowledge about those, can you say a little bit more about that

John Gray: practice? Okay. So let me give you the scientific research.

Now that was all new. That if you want it to be healthy and live a long life and be a noble warrior don't don't masturbate. And even when you have sex don't ejaculate, or if you had Jack Hewlett only habit of case, Okay. So there's a, there's a place for occasional Jackie elation. Ejaculation is highly addictive.

You know, men say, oh, we just need to have sex all the time. You don't, you don't. [00:27:00] But if you have sex with a stranger, uh, then your body will say, I need to have sex tomorrow. Why? Because your job is to manage, to make babies evolution wise. There's an animal inside of us. So if you have sex with a woman and she doesn't love you, many, you didn't, you didn't love her.

She doesn't love you. Then your body produces a chemical that makes you want to have sex. The next. If you have a woman actually have a connection and there's love, and you have love for her, your body doesn't make, makes it another chemical, or it makes this particular chemical called prolactin. That frees you to certain extent from your addiction to masturbation, to lusting, after other women, to cheating art, to needing somebody else because you lost interest here.

And that one looks better whenever your, your S your energy is low, the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. That's just the way it is. You know, you go, oh, you got this, but wait, that's a little better. That's a little better. That's your weakness. You don't have your rod of power. This is stamina.

And that's what crap. So the research [00:28:00] shows 25 year old guy. These are all athletes in Japan, and they have sex on Saturday night and ejaculated. So this is about ejaculation. So they had Jacqueline. Next day, their testosterone is at their baseline. They have a general baseline on Sunday morning, which is why men are more passive on Sunday and they don't have the energy and the spark it's time relaxation.

Your estrogen went up from having sex. Okay. And your testosterone goes back down to its baseline. And then over the week, it will, if you don't ejaculate that's, if you don't masturbate or have sex again over the week, it will slowly start to go up about 10%. Then on Saturday, the seventh day, you went for six days without ejaculating.

It goes up 50%. It goes up 50% now because I never a Jackie late. Mine's basically 50% higher all the time, which means every day I wake up with erection. I don't have to ejaculate. If I have a partner, my partner is in town. Then I have sex with her. If I don't, I just have in a rush [00:29:00] and I go take a shower and there's no big deal.

I don't have to ejaculate and addicted. This is like men are addicted to the animal. You see, we have this instinctive brain that rules sex. All right. It's the unconscious brain. It's easy to be addicted. All it takes is, is watching porn and you're addicted to sex. Okay. Your brain just goes, wow, that's cocaine.

I can never be satisfied with just having a ham sandwich. You got to adult thing. It's just that, that the simplicity of life is very fulfilling until you have high stimulation, then your brain starts demanding more. I need high stimulation, a regular woman. Uh, if you do a lot of masturbation, isn't enough of stimulation to increase your testosterone because danger increases testosterone, fantasy increases, testosterone, novel, new and different creates testosterone.

So it makes dopamine and then the dopamine in demand creates the desktop. That's why you, once you get comfortable with a woman, you can't get an erection unless you have [00:30:00] strong testosterone, unless you have enough zinc in your body to make it. And every time you ejaculate, you lose some zinc. So some part of that is physiological as well.

Who knows all the reasons, all light. All I know is that we've got the whole Asian culture and Indian culture that for masculinity, the thrive be healthy, vibrant, energetic, strong you and spiritual. Okay. There's this is all very spiritual and highly spiritual person. I spend six hours today. Well, I didn't sleep last night, only two hours.

Cause I don't know I needed to be in meditation. You know, I meditate 12 hours, six hours, three hours, depending on my work schedule, whatever. This is my discipline. And so I can't do that. If I, Jackie, late, I w I become, I meditate 20 minutes and I can't, I'm done, I can't do this any longer. You know, that's a weak person, uh, but practicing meditation and, and discipline longer and longer and longer, and applies to everything in your life.

You know, it's about 30 books behind me that I've written. [00:31:00] And each one, you know, I don't like writing a book, although I'm an ecstasy or I do it, but I miss my wife. I miss my children. I don't have a life. You know, you sit there. So I do it as fast as I can. So I write like 12, 15 hours a day. I do that because I got semen.

It gives you the juice to do that. If I ejaculated, I can't do that. It's power. So what they found is you need to Jack Hewlett once a week, uh, at least the way their study showed it. This is just studies showing that if you went six days, my jacket on the seventh day, your testosterone goes up 50%. If you don't have sex, then it just goes back down and it will stay down at your baseline.

Now their study is not a long-term study, but my conclusion is knowing all my friends who Jack Hewlett and have lots of sex. And now known don't have any sex. Is that if you look at the national average of men at 35, it goes down 1% every, [00:32:00] every a year. And now it's at all ages. Every year, testosterone averages for the country are going down, down, down, down the average 50 year old right now is half his testosterone levels.

This is what, and this means lack of vitality, lack of energy, lack of calm, lack of peace of mind. So that's one level. That's the sexual management, which is highly, highly important to this mechanism, this control by the unconscious brain. So ultimately any addiction you have will lower your testosterone.

So that's the sex addiction. Okay. So not going there. The intimacy, uh, wanting to make love with somebody who loves you and your loved, loved them. And your love grows through monogamy. Then your testosterone continues to rise. Now that's a, as long as you don't have too much sex, now you can be in a monogamous relationship, but you have more than once a week.

Occasionally, you know, you have your, your flings, you know, you're on a vacation somewhere, the kids aren't around. So you have timed down lots of sex. Okay. That's good. But just [00:33:00] know that

CK Lin: it's too much sex again, because didn't you say that you have multiple sex,

John Gray: uh, twice a day.

CK Lin: Right? Right, right. So, so relative.

Right. So how much,

John Gray: okay, so when you say sexy median, Jacqueline, always meaning ejaculation clarify. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. You clever lock loss of your life force. You're losing a piece of your soul every time you adjust. And you can regain it back, hopefully by giving up your addiction, any addiction, you're losing your soul.

It just, that is the deepest most shameful. Why do you feel shame afterwards? Everybody says, oh, that's because our culture says you're a bad person. If you do that, and you're not a bad person, you're just an addictive person. Okay. Are you just doing it moderately? There's no problem. Okay. Once a week, according to the research will actually keep your testosterone stable.

So that's good. Not more so, you know, everything good, too much of it is bad. All [00:34:00] right. So too much of anything, like I, uh, realized I was getting a little, uh, cramps in my fingers like that. And boom. So what do I do? Don't take magnesium, France, go away. Then I thought, oh, I'll just take a lot of magnesium.

Get diarrhea. Okay. Anything good? If too much of it is not a good thing. That's what we have to realize too much. Sex is not a good thing. But if you learn to have love and making love, that's something that you can do as much as you can, as long as you're not ejaculating, you learn how to be multi-orgasmic.

So this is Asian culture, understand understanding Hindu culture. I've spent 10 years in Asia, study doubt, all kinds of stuff. I did karate, you know, really have a whole Asian background. Uh, I have a Hindu backgrounds gone to India. 23 times. I was a Hindu monk for nine years, you know, celibate. And that's why I had such high conscious experiences is you couldn't sit there and meditate for 20 hours.

And [00:35:00] actually 18 was the most everyday, but six hours, 10 hours, whatever, just effortlessly enjoying expanding you. It's like you become an ocean of, of, of sometimes ocean of calm and ocean of, of ecstasy. Are you listening to music after you're in that ocean? It's just like waves of ecstasy. Like you're rocking out at a rave thing, you know, and high on drugs.

You don't need the drugs. That's why I got into meditation is the beetle. I said you could get high. I was at Woodstock, you go high on drugs and you come down, you crash. It's awful. But by music and, and high consciousness is ecstasy, just like music, high consciousness and sex out of this world. I'm, uh, I like that stuff.

So, but the, the Beatles said you could learn meditation and you can get high without drugs. So I learned to get high without drugs. I became the personal assistant of Maharishi Mahesh, Yogi of the transcendental meditation movement. If anybody listening, if you've liked. Read books on meditation and you just go, oh, it's too hard.

Or I didn't get a lot [00:36:00] out of, or just seem boring, take a class and transcendental meditation. You need to have a structure. You need to understand it. You need to be in a group, you will have experiences and you will understand your experiences. And you dedicate yourself to a little bit of your day. Every day.

You can become a Superman, just like if you dedicate yourself to what I'm saying about sex, you're a Superman, a noble warrior as well. And you also forget about all this baloney about, uh, building around with, you know, one of my friends here, they, they don't get erections anymore. They're polyamorous, you know, they, why did they become polyamorous?

Because they can't get high with the same person. So now they're dependent on somebody else, depending on they're too weak. They're too needy for somebody else. Instead of the achievement, when you are accomplishing your male energy, I'm achieving something meaningful and purposeful. That's good for me and good for the world.

And ironically, we went on to talk a little about legacy. And legacy is lasting last. How do you last? Well, same thing in [00:37:00] sex. How do you laugh? You never turn off to sex. You never turn off to your love and something men need to know about being a man is our challenge as men is to be masculine and then learn to love you say you don't all soft and love it.

You want to be strong and learn to love that's. Our journey is to get, to have so much testosterone that we can let the estrogen start to rise without it pushing down the testosterone. Now, some of us have an advantage. I had an advantage. Okay. I get it. I'm a privileged person. The privilege that I had is that my parents were highly spiritual and understood this stuff.

I did yoga at three years old and Houston. You know, my mother had the esoteric bookstore, the biggest esoteric bookstore in the world, and she never advertised just, she had such a big esoteric lab. That she wanted to share her books. And then finally everybody wanted to buy them. And she said, okay, I opened up another store for you.

Didn't care about the money because she didn't need the money. She had a [00:38:00] husband who had a job who could provide for her so she could follow her heart and do what she loved to do, which wouldn't it be great if we had a world where men could actually feel needed and we could support women and they depended on us for that.

But right now we can't make enough money. Generally speaking, I can, but the general can't the world. The culture we created is dependent upon to a man and a woman in order to support the family. So women don't have the choice. You know what? It'd be great. If we had choice will be women got the choice and now men can't make enough money to support their families.

Generally speaking. And the ones who can, are awful husbands generally, because they're working all the time. We're in a dilemma here and there's no easy way out, but the way we start is by men becoming Nobel warriors, learning. To do your best to do what is good to do, what is purposeful to do what is meaningful, and then to take that confidence and apply it to the big test that makes you a real man, is that is that's when you grow up is when you're [00:39:00] responsible for someone you cherish and love, and then you have children and you're responsible for them.

That's your legacy on a very biological level. That's the legacy, which is I'm responsible for you and I'm responsible to support you and your life. And when you feel that much needed, or people depend on you. I remember one day, a few years into my marriage, my wife said, John, you know, I depend on you. I got to that day.

I got to like grew up, you know, oh, okay. I'm a grown up. I have to do that. Then we don't gotta really got to happy. You know, she, depending on me, I have a baby, you got to raise a family, then have a job. She wants to raise a family. I wanted to be able to raise a family and have the freedom to have a part-time job, which.

Because in today's society, even it's very hard for women to just be with their child. If a woman wants to stay home with their child, it drives her crazy. Cause you're staying home all the time with your child. And everybody's far away. If you know, when I'm in Bali or if I'm in, uh, [00:40:00] India, or if I'm in the Amazon, you'll see all the women every day, they're going down to the river, they're washing their clothes in the river.

They're all talking, they're all sharing. They're babysitting. Their children are all playing and the men are all doing their jobs. And then when they come together, they enjoy sex. And then after a while, they don't because they don't have these relationship skills as well. You know, we all know there was something called the romance period and that went away.

That's the honeymoon period. Everybody knew that you don't expect romance to last, but we expect romance to last. And we can, if we understand how to do. But nobody knows.

CK Lin: One thing I want to ask you, John, and this is something that I never heard anyone ask, but I, I, but I am very, very curious about this, right?

Cause you said nine years, you are a monk, right? You, you, you will celebrate your monk and then you became a, obviously the relationship grew rather than the, the master teacher, teaching people to, um, express himself. Uh self-actualized. [00:41:00] To the path of relationship. So I'm curious cause you, you have both world, like yeah.

So how would you, what would you say to the younger John who was, you know, who was celebrates and in pursuing the path of celibacy and then, you know, expressing, uh, uh, self-actualization that way versus the path of the relationship. Okay.

John Gray: I'd say to him, he's on the right track. If you had talked to me as a teenager, I'd say stop masturbating.

I give him the talk I just gave. Okay. I said, you know, and I would teach him right away. I'd teach him when you did exercises in order to overcome the need to ejaculate when you're having sex, there's Dallas exercises that I've learned as well. Uh, you move your body in certain ways. Uh, you know, if you go online, there's a lot of good, good people teaching it.

Mostly they talk about Kangal, you've read about Kagel, right? That's pulling back, but actually my experience. [00:42:00] Okay. And that there's, you know, there's always different ways to climb the mountain. Cagle never work for me, but Cagle worked for me is the reverse Cagle. Okay. Cagle Cagle allows you to become aware of the muscle.

It takes to have an orgasm without ejaculation. Now, as opposed to ejaculate, that's contained back in your body is a big deal. Okay. We actually didn't ejaculate. What a lot of people, they push the button and it inhibits the release of ejaculation. So stays in your body. Okay. You can't keep going on for hours.

If you want a you're done pretty much after another orgasm. So there's a physical response. Okay. That's a spiritual fat spasm. And then what goes along with that is the orgasm. The orgasm is the ecstatic feeling of love. And what you do is you have to basically learn this movement. It's a whole body flex, whole body flex.

And you know, you can stand like this, move your body back and forth with your arms out like that. Dallas exercise. There's a lot of them and I've done them [00:43:00] all and I don't need to do them now. I just have sex. Cause that's all sex is. And so every time I get close is called the point of no return yet to become very clear where the point of no return is.

And before you get to the point of no return, you just shake your body as if you're having a whole body orgasm. As if you start as. You look at what does your body do? Pelvic only when you have an orgasm, it's a bunch of thrusts. Now you've got this whole movement that with every thrust in, out in out the top part of your body goes the other direction.

So it's a really shaking like this. Okay. So you just have the whole body do it. And what happened is you just, you released that buildup of energy and you start again and you release that each time you have to start again. That point you got to is a little orgasm and then a little one bigger one and a bigger one and a bigger one and a bigger one.

What you're doing in that shaking is giving your body a chance through the sexual intercourse and the intercourse. You're [00:44:00] surging with a lot of energy, a lot of pleasure pay that, and that's estrogen levels rising in your body and it starts to, it starts to rise too high and push your testosterone down.

That's what an ejaculation. So Jack culation is saying it's like a fuse just blue. We can't handle any more estrogen. Otherwise our testosterone is going down. See testosterone always hit. You have to be in control. That's what masculinity is. You are in control of yourself. Control is very, very important for masculinity, as opposed to I'm trying to control others.

No, I'm in control of myself. If I'm throwing a basketball, I'm in control of the ball, right? I'm control of my actions. I say, I'm going to do something and I do it. That's also another way we lose testosterone. I say, I'm going to do something and then I don't do it. So part of my monk experience was disciplined discipline, you know, for awhile and also overcoming challenge.

But there's not that much challenge. I used to sleep on the floor practice, you know, do these long, [00:45:00] these exercises, hold them a long time to where I felt this kind of like exercise. That's a good challenge then, but I would fast fasting is another huge testosterone. Um, which is basically not eating anything go.

And even still, I would only back then I did a ketogenic diet. I just had one cup of food a day. That was my discipline. Now I won't say it was so perfect though. Cause sometimes that was one cup of marzipan that's cigarette almonds. Uh, it's still, my only treat I have is honey and almonds. I really enjoyed that the most that occasionally I break all my rules.

Okay. Uh, and like last year I had to ejaculate already this year. I had one which was terrible, but yeah, it bounced back. It means that it's like, uh, I have a super power, which is energy and feeling good and motivated. And if I Jack you late, it's like, I become this kind of like mere mortal. I shrieked out where's my, where's my power, you know, where did it go?

I'm just, it's just, [00:46:00] but just to think for me, nine years of that and all that, I just came into this world. There was so. Cosmic energy around me, but then I wouldn't recommend that to anybody. Unless your soul said, you have to do it. Okay. I had to do it. It was, my journey was because when you suddenly have so much enlightenment and Marsha told me, you know, I was fully enlightened.

He gave me the Mojave Nakia said that you've achieved the cosmic consciousness, that God consciousness in the Brahman, continent, unity con, and the Brahman consciousness. So he didn't, he never, I never told anybody else that he told me I was just going to be his successor to the whole thing. He was training me, grooming me.

And then I left. And the irony is he used the, I used to be like a spokesman for him and say what Maurice, she would say marshy would say, and I'd bring questions to him and then bring the answers back. And the point I'm making is people would ask questions about the relationship. And he'd always say, you know, I'm a, I'm a monk.

Uh, having a relationship [00:47:00] issues are not my expertise. What's so funny is that I left him and that became my expertise. You know, it was like the student standing on the shoulders of the teacher, you know, and why I teach relationship, is it, once you bring all that, get to your true self authenticity up there, you find yourself, that's not, self-actualization, that's just finding who you are.

And then that has to integrate into your body. You know, it brings up all your stuff. In spiritual terms, it's called the dark night of the soul and common experience for people who don't spend a lot of time meditating and spirituality, it means you have a really great time as suddenly you argue and fight, or you're depressed.

You go really high. You'll come back down. It's you, you touch the sun and you crashed back down. You get burned. Anytime you go high, you'll come back down and that's about integration and there's nothing more powerful to integrate that light, which is all love. Is in a relationship, an intimate relationship, your partner, Bonnie, my [00:48:00] sweetheart will push every button you have.

That's unlike the light that you were trying to bring in, because see, we are darkness down here. We're animals, primitive. We have all this, uh, what is it? The subconscious unconscious mind, we call it in psychology, but it's like, somebody is angry with us. We get angry back, you know, monkeys, we just react, react, react.

All of this. This brain is a reactive brain. We have to reprogram it. And the only way we program it is have self-reflection self-reflection to look inwards at myself, see myself as others. See me, see myself and say, was that good? Was that not let me self correct. And then what makes the difference is now I'm going to take action to self-correct and that's what that life did for me as a monk is lots of, lots of discipline, you know, going 30 days without talking, you know, uh, seven days just staying in my room.

I'd still do that. I was just, I just finished this year, starting out with. Well it's as a Dallas thing as well, a big where you put a [00:49:00] mask on and wrap something around the know, like, and comes to my eyes for seven days. And all I had was one cup of coffee in the morning and a glass of water. That was it.

Uh, I have to have coffee, otherwise have bad headaches. Cause I drink coffee every day. You can't just stop it real quick. I just want to, and my girlfriend was out of town for a week, so I said, oh, I'll just get through this. And I'd never had this experience, which is actually, you can see, after a while the light around, I could walk around my house with, without bumping into anything.

Cause I'd see a light of vibration of light around everything with my eyes closed. It's amazing. Here's always a blind people can see things and whatever. I totally get it now, but you've got, you've got to not depend on your eyes to look out. You've got to depend on what's inside because all that's really happening when you see something is, oh, that is helping me know what I know.

Everything is already there inside of us. It's all. And when I see that, that awakens my knowledge inside, and I think it's out there that's doing, but really it's in here. [00:50:00] For example, if somebody loving you, it feels really good because that they gave you permission to love yourself. So there's so much else to learn on the, on the journey, but we need to potency to do it for testosterone.

And that's sort of the theme of this book. You asked me about that relationship skills that will allow you to grow in testosterone, for example. And if you're doing anything to help a woman become more feminine, when you do anything to help a woman experience more estrogen, you're becoming more masculine.

That's the most exciting thing. So you don't want to be a girlfriend you're on a date. You asked lots of questions, just show a lot of interests. You don't talk about your feelings at all. You, you can talk, you need to talk a little bit. Otherwise she needs a little reassurance that you're listening to her.

So you make comments. Well, I think this, and I think that practice, not arguing, not being angry at someone, not being opinionated, you know, be flexible women all say, oh, they want a really funny guy. Oh man, with a sense of humor, actually, they hate it when women don't know what they want, what they want is a man who, whose life who [00:51:00] walks through life like a feather.

Okay. I can handle that. That's okay. He chuckles he lasts, but he's not making jokes. You know, you don't have to make funny, clever jokes. You know, Robin Williams is my age. So funny. He lives in my town. I know him. He was Mick and he did a spaceship guy. I laid in bed for bars. It's very interesting art, similar karma around this thing, but I met him.

You can't have a friendship with him. You can never like he's making jokes all the time. Just making, making a joke, making a joke that is not intimacy, but taking things like. Is humor, you know, just being playful in life, being humorous and being serious when you need to being empathetic. You know, these are the things it's really about learning to be completely selfless.

And that's what enlightenment really is. Then, then you bring in your female side, which is you get all the goods, all the, do things that are fun and enjoyable, and you don't have to do this extreme. Like I did. Uh, you can balance it back and forth, [00:52:00]

CK Lin: actually, a very quick question about, about, um, being in relationship, because you had said, you'd been with Bonnie brought up the, the humanity, the worst, you know, you guys angry with each other and so on and so forth.

Right. And that's a common and see other people. So you see that as an opportunity for.

John Gray: Everything is an opportunity for growth. Nothing happens to you that isn't God's gift to help you see yourself to help you see what's evil inside of you sounds religious. That helps you see what's dysfunctional inside of you.

Anytime you justify being angry, hurtful stealing any of that's anybody you just about. Well, they took from me. So I'm going to take from them. That's justification of evil. That's evil. When you're negative towards somebody, you say, well, I'm only negative because I love you. And that's true. You know, if somebody not, you don't care about them, you don't get negative.

Who cares? I don't even to think about you. So your partner will try to change. You use negative emotion. They argue with you and they think they're being loving. Cause they love you. But those actions [00:53:00] are not loving. And in that moment, when they're doing that, they're not. But they do that because they are loving you before that they care about you.

They love you, but now they've become this unloving person. We all need to recognize how we've become unloving and then have the skills in the tools, which we haven't talked about much today in order to transform this crazy part of us, this unloving, this dark part of us, which a lot of people call that the shadow side of us.

It has to come forth and after all it is enlightenment for me, I must have been a good nine years. I did nine years to get up there a good nine years to bring that down and integrated in where nothing bothered me much, no big deal. I could process everything. Then I wrote a best-selling book that changed the world.

It had legacy, you know, then what I was able to produce had lasting value, lasting value, and that's what we want. We want our sex to have lasting value. You know, ultimately if I had sex in a jacket, I need time. Uh, pull back for a little while. I'm not going to feel this [00:54:00] amazingly loving guy, attentive guy, energetic guy, you know, um, playful guy, uh, hardworking guy, all those good qualities that any guy, we all have it in us.

It usually shows up when that testosterone, when we're anticipating sex, that's your best self is when you're anticipating sex. Why? Because when you're turned on to sex, what's happening is you feel more than in any other time, because see, what we have to do is life there's challenges in front of us.

We're always sort of resisting this. You always having the resist, resist, resist, whatever can go on. You know, life has things coming to that. You have to push away. Okay. Now that resistance for a man frees us to find our detachment. Okay. That's what the Buddha taught, you know, forget all your points. You know, it was like, don't worry about it.

If you're upset, stop worrying, do something to make you feel good, which means your testosterone is going up. That's good for you. Not bad for you. Cause masturbation [00:55:00] doesn't temporarily increase your testosterone. I mean, it's searching. It feels really good, but afterwards it feels like shit and your energy level just goes down and it's not because the culture shames you for that.

No it's because you just gave a piece of your soul, your energy level just dropped. Just like if I ate too much of a food, that's not good for me. I feel awful the next day. I wish I hadn't done that. So this is what addictions do. You know? I remember giving up smoking when I was a young guy before I became a monk, I'd buy a pack of cigarettes.

It's so addictive. I'd smoke a cigarette. I couldn't do this. Throw the whole thing away. Two days later, I bought him a pack of cigarettes. Throw it away. I still down a little bit with Graham crackers. Uh, this is what as a child. It was the only sugar thing we had in the house. And sometimes if my blood sugar dropped.

Then instead of doing something, eat something healthy, I can get immediate gratification with a Graham cracker. So to this day, I'll just like watching TV too much, passive TV watching also lowers [00:56:00] testosterone. Okay. So see, when you, when you're watching a little TV, like the news are a sporting event or whatever, you're identifying with the action and with news, you're basically forgetting your problems, which is a way to build testosterone.

Don't do all your problems all the time. Another one is to see other people's problems. And so you're watching a sporting team. Oh, don't do that. Oh, you're going to do that. And a lot of emotional release happens watching sports, but then at a certain point, it's too much of a good thing and you get addicted.

So any good thing could be addicted. Now set, my pornography is massively addictions sports. Isn't playing video games, maybe 20 minutes an hour at the most. Okay. Now you're just losing your life force energy. You need to be doing something productive. Would you come back to Novo? Warmup is achievement. Now I'm not totally against video games.

I don't do them, but you know, maybe that's your, how you make money in life. But what typically happens if you look at the video champions who make money playing video games, they're fat, [00:57:00] they're fat back belly. And you know, the big, bad belly is, is that their mind is doing things, but their body isn't.

That's why, if I watch too much TV, I'm on a couple of hours, but watching news and maybe one show or something, then I start going. Closet to look for Graham crackers, even though they're not there, I'll still get up and go. Maybe they're there. That means you're no longer in your conscious mind, you become too passive.

So reading a book, doesn't do that. By the way, if you read you're engaged in creating, you're creating something in your mind, but passivity where I'm, depending on someone else to create the picture and the enjoyment and the music and all that what's happening, I'm becoming too passive and that's estrogen producing.

So there has to be some kind of involvement sort of effort, some sort of focus that you're following through with

CK Lin: now, you, you said at some point you won't start writing until you find the right book title. And then, and then obviously you're someone with super deep well of [00:58:00] wisdom and things are just pouring out of you.

I'm curious to know how do you cultivate your own creativity? Do you have like morning pages practices and things like that too?

John Gray: I think. Everybody there's temperament types. Okay. And not everyone has the same temperament, but for me in my temperament type, I am a, uh, a reactive type. If, if, uh, somebody needs my help, I'm right there.

Otherwise I'm a little passive. Something has to be a little bit of an emergency to pull me forth. Every one of my books, I was offered a sizeable advance. If somebody says, we'll pay you to be John. Yeah. We'll pay you $2 billion to write this book. I said, okay, I'll write this book. It's all the juices there.

You see the anticipating a big reward, which means in our mind, these, in my mind, most Pittman's minds, a big reward means you made a difference. It means they really want you. And your really wanted. You know, part of [00:59:00] my own libido at 70 years old is because my partner really wants me. And that's because I'm really good at sex.

And she has lots of estrogen because I've made it so she doesn't have to work. She gets to do what she likes to do. She enjoys working, but she doesn't have to do it for the money. So there's no desperateness to it. So she can actually be more feminine. And when she's more feminine and I know how to give her orgasms, then suddenly her body says every day I want to have sex.

I wanted to have sex. So that also keeps my testosterone and quite high. I'm not a wife, we're not married, but having a partner who wants to have sex with me, it's the ultimate. And all of these four beds, they come to me and they all go, oh, you know, my wife doesn't want sex. You know, I have to condense it to one sex and everything.

What a bummer that you have to do that. But the reason you have to do it is because outside the bedroom, you're not doing the stuff you have to do to get her estrogen flowing because women can not desire sex. Now there's exception here. There's women who can't have [01:00:00] orgasms, who desire sex. They just want the attention, whatever, but there's the actual bar body wet and wanting to have sex, like ready, ready to go.

Six. Amazing. When you know how to provide an orgasm for a woman and many orgasms without ejaculating, then there's no recovery period. You're still having sex all the time. You see, once the man pulls away, a woman's estrogen will go down, but if your testosterone stays up there, which doesn't drop, if you don't evacuate, it just stays 50% higher.

It's all the time, 50% higher. And it doesn't mean you're wanting to have sex all that time. That's, you know, body needs sex, but it doesn't need it all the time, you know, but it's, it's got the power to do it. And so she doesn't experience that pulling away. So what happens in psychology? We called that a conditioned response.

If I put my finger towards fire and it burns, my unconscious mind will S will pull me away from firing before I know it learned [01:01:00] fire burns. All right. So a woman's whole thing about estrogen is to open up and receive, to connect, allow you to come into me, you know, do me. That's, she's surrendering, yielding, and you're there for her providing for her and enjoying every minute of it because you have estrogen going up too.

So as you're providing for her that you get your big thrill and then you pull away, they notice it, you pulled away her body notices and her estrogen goes down as opposed to continuing to feel good. So every time you go into a shop and you end up going feeling bad, you're not going to go into that shop anymore.

Your body just doesn't want to go there. So over time you have conditioned her to not want to go that high. Now, and that's inevitable if you're Jackie late, but that's a little conditioning it's just over and over and over finally conditions her tonight, even go there cause you just disappeared. So the next thing is N and you're gonna pull away after sex.

Her estrogen is going to come down, but you can then what's called [01:02:00] reconditioning. So there's a conditioned response. And then I counter conditioning. So if you go for six days without ejaculating, your testosterone rises back up and that's the counter conditioning that says, oh, he is really there for me.

And she'll rise to that. She needs the reassurance that you're going to be 50%. And when you're not, when you're just the baseline and it's slowly going down, her estrogens is going to slowly go down as well. And then what you have women today? What men have low testosterone women have this, all this menopausal stuff, this dryness in their vagina.

I know a woman who's 78 years old and she is her husband. Also a student of mine. Uh, she's wet every day. Okay. It's like women go, what happened? And now women also have to know that there's exercises like we have to do as men exercise, those muscles, uh, women have to exercise that vagina. You know, there's these things you buy online just called women's cables and the, you pull a ball up and down with a weight on it.

You strengthen that area. You increase circulation. Otherwise [01:03:00] you're not only do your skin become dry and it becomes painful, but your estrogen levels go down. That's the biggest estrogen stimulators to have a guy's penis in there making you happy that just keeps it up. It's amazing what sex can do. And the Dallas in ancient China, they all understood this, but the techniques a little different today, I was mentioning to you the reverse Cagle.

You can go online, look under reverse Cagle. They even have apps, timing, your Cagle, and then your reverse Cagle. Hmm. The, the Cagle is to pull back and the reverse Cagle, as you experienced this, pushing down the same feeling, the same muscles. If you were to push your urine out, okay. Now all I have to do when I pee, I always have an orgasm.

Okay. Because when I pushed down, it pushes the energy up. I don't need to take, you know, Montauk. Chia has written a great book on the value of not ejaculating. I don't use this technique at all. It doesn't work for me. It's for, he uses Kago. I use reverse [01:04:00] Cagle. Reverse Cagle is just simply you get close to that point.

You push down. And what it does is it pushes down and whatever energy down there gets pushed up. If you feel love now, mine won't work. I couldn't do it with a woman. I don't love you have to see us. And I don't love anybody. Who's not loving me. So it has to be love. And what allows men to feel loved the most powerful thing that may help some men to feel love is a woman's love.

Okay. So to the extent, when I said I was privileged and why I have all this extra benefit and why I'm a leader and all this is, I started out with a lot of help and that's it. My mother always loved me. I never was criticized by my mother. My father never punished me. I was the experiment of seven children.

The four brothers older than me were all punished. One, went to military school. One of them got in jail, that problems. So they said, bye I'm number five. They said, why don't we try something different? We'll just never punish him. And you know, the way my mother said is, you know, people in my class when she [01:05:00] told them that she, she said, what did you do?

She said, we put them in the hands of. And that's because they were also spiritual people. Understood and see part of why parents punish is they don't know another way. I've written a whole book on how to manage children and discipline children without punishment. You know, I think children need to have control.

They need to be controlled. You don't just give them whatever they want, but there's a whole art to that. That's another conversation. And I wouldn't say my parents understood that, but at least I didn't have this negativity thrown on me all the time of feeling like I had to be better to please my parents, even though to some extent I did, because I got so much love.

I wanted to be worthy. And, but, you know, my brothers were torment. They were jealous because I never got punished and they figured that out. I mean, I used to have to go into my dad's room that gets back. And he would say, okay, I want you to make a noise. I'm going to whip the chair. Brothers finally figured this out.

So they punished me. No, it was very interesting. So they buried me alive. Once they threw me off the roof, [01:06:00] over my head from being thrown upside down, like, you know, they really took their thing with me. And I won't say, I just like blessed a childhood, but I got one part of it, which is my mother's love. And my mother was able to love because she had a husband who had, who was a, I wouldn't say he's like the new, all the skills I know, but the skills weren't necessary, but women in that generation needed was a man who was a good provider and was a gentleman, not all these romantic skills.

And she had her dream cause she was in that, that consciousness of the time of she wanted to have children, seven children and a white picket fence was her dream. And. And so, and as time passed, as the children were getting older, she knocked, it started her business. She continued her business as the children left, you know, this can be for everybody.

If we had a culture that supported that men and women have different needs at different times of their life. And not that everybody has to do it, but right now people can't do it and we should have an economy. And as such, that awakens [01:07:00] us to this idea and it's possible, and I'm holding onto this, but it doesn't mean that women can't have jobs and can't be corporate heads and can't be military people, or it doesn't mean that it means that whatever you do as a woman, you also have a need to get a certain kind of support to support your femininity.

And so what we have today is this hyper hyper-sensitive. Cause see, we go back and forth from male and female. We don't have, we're not grounded in our masculine while we're having our feelings and what we're having, our feelings are our masculine. Isn't there to tell us your overview. Just, you know, the hard truth is anytime you're judging your partner, you're upset.

You're mad. You're not forgiving. You're depressed. You're any that you're overreacting. This is the foundation of Western psychology is Freud. Well, people can criticize Frye for some of these crazy ideas. That's the basic, all unhappiness is an overreaction. And what was it? You, I know we're finishing up here.

I just want to give a quote from you [01:08:00] and I'm not good at other people's quotes, but I wrote this one down because I like it so much heard it recently. And you have was really good at understanding the male and female to quite an extent. Uh, uh, it was a little too esoteric for me to understand, but he opened the door for some of those ideas to come down.

Uh, this is a human Carl Young great psychologist until you make the unconscious conscious. It will direct your life and you will call it fate. All of us today often call it. You know, oh, that's just my karma. Now that's your unconscious mind controlling your life rather than you taking the steering wheel and how you do that is not letting the unconscious control you.

Which means to become self-aware of when you're not being loving when you're not being true to yourself. And you're not being a noble warrior, look at that and explore it, analyze it and see that that's not the person you are and change your behavior. Change your behavior. Now that's a, one-sided [01:09:00] teaching.

That's half of what I teach for men. There's another side because you are born more on your female side because you have higher consciousness and your mother's hormones were probably bound. I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to men of your generation that on average, not every man has this low testosterone issue.

What these boys need is a knowledge of what are the things that keep me from developing my masculinity and what are the things that will increase. And talking about your feelings with a girlfriend or with a, with a female is not what you need to be doing that would just make you more feminine. They put you in the friend zone and then she doesn't like you.

Anyway. She wants you to get that out of you. And then she's not turned on to, this is going to happen over and over these guys, the girls are gonna lose interest in you. What they want is a guy who can suck it up. And then somebody joke that men are all such emotionally unavailable guys. They're so narcissistic.

And yet, why did you have sex with them? Because they turned you on in the beginning. And then what happens [01:10:00] is women don't know their role, which is why they lose interest in that man is because they shut down. You see, when you say a man is emotionally unavailable, she's emotionally available. When you say a man is selfish, she's a self.

He may also be somewhat selfish, but you want a selfish man who says me first before the rest of the. That's why, you know, well, something I didn't vote for Trump and people didn't like Trump. Now I only vote Republican for right now. Democrats are going nuts is just my opinion, but they absolutely crazy cuckoo.

Like we don't have a budget, you know, we can just make up all this money. Inflation going so crazy. Insanity. What's going on here anyway. So they've made me Republican and they're making a lot of people Republican. I live in California. Somebody just said to me, how can you still live there? I said only because I have the best house in mill valley, which is the nicest place in the world.

And my children all have nice homes too. They don't want to move. I'd be in Florida right now with no hesitation. This is so nonsensical. So [01:11:00] controlling all in the, in the name of what. You know, this is, this is a crazy place we see ironically it's because we are more awake. This is the big awakening is that we're now women are becoming aware of their male side, but this owning their female and men are becoming aware of their female side, but disowning their male side.

So when you can't love yourself as different from the opposite sex, you can't hear anything which is different from you. You become tribal. See tribalism is an age of a stage of evolution where you find yourself with people who think like you. Well, that's what the internet has done to. Now, you just can hear only the people who think like you, as opposed to having debate, having conversation, having people with opposite perspectives have to compromise.

That's what marriage is. That's what a relationship is. That's a challenge that we can overcome with the right skills without the right skills that I teach. [01:12:00] And I don't see anybody else. There's nobody on the planet teaching this. This is this, this is the lone star out there. Just like men are from Mars was a huge breakthrough.

This is huge. And the time has come where people will start to suffer so much. They'll wake up and say, I need to think differently. And that's the, you know, what Churchill said about Americans is that you can always count on Americans to do the wrong thing over and over until they finally wake up and change and lead the world.

And why do we lead the world? Because we have more freedom. We have more freedom than anywhere in the world. This is such nonsense when they talk about is racism and. The the worst part of America has been. We had an apex of freedom and now we're going down, but that's called the dark night of the soul.

Every time things are good things get dark, why to bring the light in and transform the dark. And it's only through suffering that it happens and you don't have to suffer. It's optional. If you wake up and you start doing the right thing, start realizing you're wrong, you made a [01:13:00] mistake. We're going in the wrong direction.

We need to correct this. I haven't had an insight about how people now introduce themselves, which is I'm a binary or I'm a something I'm something I'm where did this come from? And I finally realized that the way Facebook started was your reporting on Facebook, your status. And then, you know, it started as like I'm single woman, single man.

Now you're all over the place, regardless of what you think you are, you're lying to your. You're a man or you're a woman and you're single are, you're not, and that's the reality. You're in a monogamous relationship or you're not. And women, before you have sex, you should make sure you're in a monogamous relationship because that's a whole nother thing.

This jumping in the sex thing, it's just an addiction. What will happen is you'll never form a lasting commitment. You first have to bond per man. You feel sexual attraction, but you don't culminate with an ejaculation until you have emotional attraction and then mental attraction, and then sort of same values, which I call spiritual attraction.

Then you culminate. Otherwise you'll just pour your soul into a [01:14:00] woman that doesn't love you. And I tell them, don't just have sex with a guy. First men get naked mentally, then emotionally, then physically, and then maybe he'll call back. Maybe there's a chance for a relationship. And unfortunately when people have no testosterone, why we even have a relationship are when women are just on their male side, they have they're disconnected with the female part of her body that says, I need a man to make a.

I need a man to make a baby. And how many women do they can't even make babies and how many more women said he don't even want to make babies? Not that I'm saying everybody needs to make a baby, but it's part of being human family. Growing up together, that values and legacy, the legacy you have is a family that has your values.

And if you have successful family with your values, people trust you. Then you share your values through your work and your work. Those values get transmitted. In my case, my books are my legacy, you know, and it's, it's wonderful to know that they will live on, but

CK Lin: what'd you send it to [01:15:00] those who have yet to decide they have something worthy to leave behind for as a legacy.

What would you say to the younger John who hasn't written a book yet? What would you say to him who is yet

John Gray: to decide? I was never thinking about legacy. I was, I was thinking, I was thinking about self-realization 28 years old is when your brain is possible to have self realization. They say that's when the, actually this part of the brain is finally.

And self-realization is knowing who you are. That you're a good person. You're a capable person. You may not know what you're going to do in the world, but you're a good person. You're capable. You're loving, you're strong. You have commitment. You have virtues. You've developed virtues up to 28 years old.

Then that's when it dawned on me. It took a while for me to get what my purpose was now. I thought my purpose was just to get enlightened and that's purely selfishness. Okay. And I did, I got enlightened at 28. I knew myself. That's when I left my girl, I didn't need to grow anymore. I went off. I had no idea what I was going to do.

That's when I became homeless, I go, oh, you know, God will take [01:16:00] care of me. And of course nothing happened. I'm on the beach. So again, I'm a privileged person. I was able to call up my mother and say, mom, could you give me some money? She says, only if you get a job. And I say, well, I can't really get a job right now.

This is going to pay much. Would you pay for my education? Yeah. Cause I already had a master's degree in Eastern philosophy because that's a different thing, but from the university in Europe, but the practical thing, so my brothers are all in the computer science. So I went to computer science school for six months.

I learned how to do COBOL work, those gigantic computers back in those days and got a job at Stanford research Institute where my brother was the manager and my brother's also Eric esoteric like me. So it took me about six months to know his job, to do everything he did. And he said, I want to go on a retreat Tibet.

I leave it to you. So I suddenly said, okay, I'll run the show. And now I was getting paid 10 times more than what I was paid when I started. So again, [01:17:00] I did it. I'm good at it. That was, I found something I'm good at, but it wasn't my mission and purpose. So ironically it just caused huge neck pain, just huge neck pain.

I just, you know, I was making good money. I was saving it up to do what I wanted to do because what I found that I wanted to do was help people have better sex. Uh, ironically, when you're celibate for nine years, when you start coming out in the world having sex, it's a lot of fun. So I thought, okay, this is nothing new I can learn.

So I just interviewed women who, uh, I said, you know, I've been a month for nine years, but I'd like to make love to you and know what makes you feel good. You know, I want you to help educate me. And that was actually very seductive for women. I first read their poems, get to know them. And also most of these women I was with and there were several was, was their TM meditators.

So I was a bit of celebrity in the TM movement. So it wasn't like it was just coming in, uh, without advantages. So I came in with advantages without a doubt, but I share what I learned from that. So my first courses I taught, uh, after I saved up enough [01:18:00] money to start a seminar business from my computer programming, because it was causing suffering in my body to do that.

So I knew that wasn't the right thing. It's just too painful to keep doing, but I prepared for one, uh, to teach classes. And my first class is what I was learning, which was. It was called, uh, one of my first classes called making love work. That was my second one, enlightened sexuality teaching men, how to have orgasms ejaculation.

And it wasn't as good as it is now. Then I was just using the, uh, the Cagle technique, which is pulling it back, pulling it back. And that just gave me prostititus, uh, cause you can get infections that way. Uh, and so you have to be careful with this pulling back thing, as opposed to not pulling back, just slow down before you get to the point of no return and shake it up.

And then, uh, start over again, start over. Another thing for men to know is don't put your penis all the way in. You just start on the outside slowly, slowly. Titillate her [01:19:00] gradually going in gradually going in and then you'll see if you go right in. I would premature ejaculation. I mean it's too much for my body.

I have to slowly let it warm. Now some men can't ejaculate because they don't have much feeling. You see they're more detached in life. They have more testosterone. So if you go away one side, more testosterone, you can ejaculate low testosterone ejaculated right away. Cause you can feel so much energy.

Your estrogen goes up. It feels so good. So for me, I had to learn to like, oh, don't get too, too high on the pleasure thing, get before the point and just start moving there. And, and, and that also prize huge pleasure and just enjoy the pleasure. And it's sort of an old Tibetan idea, which is don't grasp it life don't grasp, you know, it's what you have.

I wrote a whole book on how to get what you want and want what you have. And I'll close. I know our time's up, but I was just listening to a talk on another teacher and she was talking about. [01:20:00] And it was kind of funny to hear a woman talking about this, nothing about love at all. But she was saying, all of us, our number one focus is power.

You know, how much money does that person have? How much money do I have? What is, what status does that person have? What can they do better than me? What can I do better? And that's true. We're always measuring that all the time, consciously your subconscious, that's a part of the picture. And then she said, you know, and you give away your power.

You want to hold your power and how do you give your way your power? And she said, this great example, she had her pin, she was writing on the wall with, you know, like a little cheap pin, a marker, and kind of like the size of a penis. And she's only that marker. And she says, now anybody want this marker? I was anywhere like one up there, wishing you had this marker and nobody wishes.

They had the marker. And I say, good. Then you're empowered because if you wanted that marker, I'm not giving it to you. You just lost your power, wanting what you can't have drains. You have power reinforcing. So when you're looking at a woman going, I wish I could have her. And I can't, you just lost your [01:21:00] power.

You see these fake women and you think that they want you and they don't it's fantasy. You just lost your power. You're giving away your power by wanting something you can't have as supposed to wanting what you do have and being satisfied with life and wanting more. So that's another book. Good for people.

So anyway, somebody who's in their twenties, that's a book. I'd tell them to read how to get what you want and what you have. Then when you get in your thirties, I'd tell you at any stage, I'd tell you read this book because you got to learn the hormone difference between men and women. Cause to deny differences means to deny the reality of who you are is the emperor has no clothes.

This is all nonsense and trans is nonsense. This is insanity. And I'll say it. And you let me just explain what you do when your child is trans, because their boys are born with higher estrogen levels. Even a non trans boy is going to have the estrogen levels of a girl from age to the 13. And now many boys because of low testosterone are not hitting puberty to have 14 or 15.[01:22:00]

So you got this kid in the school, teachers are praying. They're actually having classes for trans kids telling them, Hey, you can be a girl. If you want, you liked dresses. You like sewing. You like being doing this, like talking about your feelings. You could be trans that's who you are. This is all the time.

A child doesn't even know who they are until after puberty. That's called dis-identification from being my parents. So now I'm going to find out who I am, and that's a time to be tribal. It's a time for boys to be with boys, girls, to be with girls, to develop those hormone systems by saying I'm like, you you're like me.

It's completely inhibiting the development of these children. And then to take hormones. It's horrible already. They're going to die younger. No question about it. They're gonna have all kinds of serious health issues from taking those hormones, but the psychological issues are huge as well. And they were already there.

The psychological issue is, Hey, you know, I don't really relate to my body. You know, something is, my brain is different. My body there's a confusion. Yes there is. And you cure that [01:23:00] by giving opportunities for those boys are more feminine. Never shame them for that, but then encourage behaviors with other boys.

That are, what's always met with adult supervision, particularly fathers supervision. So that's your coach at your all boy teams with coaches is one activity that they should be encouraged to do. They should be encouraged to be in competition, not this competition where everybody gets a trophy. It's like you D you lose, you win and you lose.

That's part of being a man you're going to win and you're going to lose. And every time you're going to realize what you can win at the most, because it's painful to lose. So this is all nicey nicey stuff, not good for our kids, but also not to spank them. That just makes them more feminine. When you spank, you create more estrogen in them.

Now, some children, well, there's more to my parenting. I teach at my parenting book. So I just wanted to share all that with a noble warriors. You know, we want to just stop knocking our testosterone down. No, that the culture is pushing the [01:24:00] estrogen. We need to do things that emphasize being with men, talking about what we think with men, not dwelling so much on what we feel.

Just want you to know that particularly in your early twenties and thirties, not so much in what you feel as you get older, then you practice more processing your emotions and feelings. But first you need to have the circuits in your brain. The go-to circuits in your brain need to be masculine. Then you can bring it over to the feminine and stay in your masculine.

So this is a dance to do. And I know it's hard being a man is hard. Being a woman is hard. I remember being a little boy watching my dad shave little tiny boy watching, and I thought, oh, that's what men do. I don't know how to shave. It felt like a huge burden on me. Just that one little thing. But then he taught me how to do it and I'll teach you and you'll learn.

So. Life is tough. If you don't have instruction on how to be, but if you have instructions of how to be and what to do, you gain your confidence, you gain your strength, and then you [01:25:00] have dignity, dignity of masculinity. That's the only way it comes from you. Don't get dignity by being soft and feminine, loving and sweet.

You don't get dignity that way. You get dignity by selfless selflessness, overcoming challenges, accomplishing goals, developing skills, doing things that will be helpful to others, but first of all, helpful to you and your future. So it's a selfish time. You need to look towards yourself and tell you, get to your relationship time.

That's when you start becoming more selfless and then you're ready to have children where you can be totally selfless and then you can learn to become, then you self actualize. That's when you are. It's not about you. I didn't write men are from Mars for me. I wrote men are from Mars. That's the time, my forties, where you start to self-actualize.

If you have a foundation of intimacy, I talk about all those stages of development in my book, how to get what you want, what will you have? So those people are interested in that might check that book out as well.

CK Lin: John, uh, Confucius, as you were speaking, a one quote from Confucius [01:26:00] came to mind. He says, , that means self-mastery family country, world.

So as you're speaking, what I'm hearing is this place of, Hey, focus on the body testosterone, right? Get your focus on your self mastery and self self-realization. And once you get to a place, then you relate, right. And, uh, family, country, and world. That's what I'm hearing. Yeah,

John Gray: I'm just hearing right now, as I hear you, I'm thinking about, you know, in terms of the Maharishi and his teaching, he always talked about the cosmic consciousness, which is the self realization who you are self mastery and then God consciousness and that's love, you know, and you find God through your partner and your family, and then there's, uh, your community.

That's unity consciousness where you're here to serve others because as I help others, I feel, I feel enriched. And that's the primary source of happiness. Wow. What a great, great quote from [01:27:00] Confucius. Say it again. I want to remember it.

CK Lin: So

John Gray: translation. That's what I need to remember.

CK Lin: Self-mastery family country. That's so

John Gray: beautiful. Yeah. Perfect.

CK Lin: Yeah. I, I so appreciate you sharing your, your wisdom so beautifully. You, you have lived a huge life, very many different modalities, traverse different realms, you know, from being a monk to, you know, being an author, to having this media empire, uh, impacting people all over the world.

Uh, and, and they will continue to, uh, impact people even after you're gone. Um,

John Gray: I have to add myself, you know, there's sort of a badge of honor. If you get canceled these days, you know, I was canceled in 2001. Where are you? Yes, I was kicked off of all national TV. Couldn't teach at Harvard. Couldn't teach at Stanford, Oprah.

Wouldn't let me on a show. All of a sudden it just happened. I [01:28:00] got too big. The narrative. See the narrative, then see right now we have a narrative. You can't, if your narrative, if you go against the narrative, you're off to YouTube. Well, we didn't have YouTube. Then we had national. And one day was never invited back and nobody could understand it.

But at the higher level, it's like it's two CS to sexist. That's all it takes. He's too sexist. And that is the narrative. Anybody who talks about gender differences is a sexist because ultimately see part of this whole, the corrupt people want to disempower. You. People need to know that this culture wants to disempower you.

And what most people don't know is an ancient Egyptian days. The Pharaoh's subjugated, the Jewish people as slaves by switching the roles women were allowed to do men's work. Men were only allowed to do women's work, clean the house, raise the children and cook women did the work outside. That was the Pharaoh's way of disempowering the Jews so that they wouldn't seek [01:29:00] freedom.

And then people can say, oh, well, they finally got out of there only 20% left. The others chose to follow the, the abuse. This is Stockholm syndrome and also Roy Versal and, but 20% escaped, and those are the ones that survived. The others didn't survive. This is all like amazing stuff. And we see it right now happening in the world.

It's the cycles happening again. Amazing. But this time, what you had, the great awakening people like you sharing the wisdom, Nobel warrior, what it means to be masculine. What are these? The good, good man. What an amazing stuff I would recommend. Other books I recommend is Warren Farrell. He has a book called why men are the way they are, uh, and several other books.

And, uh, he's a good friend of mine as well. We, we have walks every week discussing our ideas. Uh, he a amazing teacher. I think he'd also be very helpful for the noble warriors.

CK Lin: Oh, cool. Thank you so much, John.