Dec. 18, 2022

147 Rajesh Setty: Value Creation, 300 Introductions, And Hidden Rainbows

My next guest is Rajesh Setty. He is often referred to as Silicon Valley's secret "spark plug" for startups, scale-ups (and shake-ups)


Being a Polymath, Rajesh is constantly in the middle of running experiments across a variety of seemingly unrelated areas of interest, but with the common goal of how to create a better world through the projects, he incubates as one of the founders or participates in some meaningful capacity to help the founders.


Together, the startups that Rajesh has co-founded are valued at $150+ million, and the ones where he serves as a mentor are valued at $700+ million. Finally, he has also taught 2000+ entrepreneurs as part of Founder Institute & beyond.


His latest startups are Audvisor and MentorCloud.

His latest books are "Six Foot World" and "Smart, but Stuck."

His latest courses are "The Right Hustle" and "Flourish by Design."


We talked about

(01:22) Rajesh's fearlessness of publishing

(11:53) Attach yourself to effort and detach yourself from results

(18:45) Relationship building and social media

(26:38) How Seinfeld provided him with infinite motivation to create

(30:26) Mental health is about stories we tell ourselves about ourselves

(33:18) Value creation is about giving meaningful gifts at scale with low incremental costs

(38:11) 3 kinds of value creation: Delta T, Delta B, and Delta E

(61:26) How a bicycle metaphor illustrates value creation for organizations

(65:16) How to stay calm even amidst triggering events

(69:22) How to manufacture goodness from misfortunes

(78:04) The art of making good asks

(78:11) The 3 time scale of relationships: long term, very long term, and lifetime

(101:04) Choose 3 things carefully: projects, conversations, and people

(102:56) How to ignore the critics on the internet

(104:27) Rajesh's hack for gaining capacities at scale


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[00:00:00] CK: My next guest is an author is a course. Creator is an entrepreneur in a technology and a publishing space. The startups that he has co-founded are now value at 150 million. Plus he has taught over 2000 entrepreneurs part of being founders Institute and beyond.

If you are interested in hearing more about this man, go to a U D V I S O Welcome Rajesh set.

[00:00:30] Rajesh: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to have this conversation. Thank you for

[00:00:34] CK: inviting me. I'm so glad to have this conversation with you, Raje, you know, um, our mutual friend, uh, Espree. Yes.

Introduced us. He said, Hey, both of you are entrepreneurs. Both of you are working in mental health space. You should meet each other. And I'm so glad you made that introduction to us. The number one, very good. The number one thing I wanted to, uh, talk to [00:01:00] you right away is, is this. I was looking at all of the works that you've done in the past, you know, the volume and also the diversity of interest was quite impressive.

Yeah. Now, personally, I have no fear of learning. I can, I, I know that I'm an infinite learner. I can learn anything, but it seems to me that you have no fear of publishing. So you can, you know, you've published a lot of, you know, mystery novels and comedy shows. Yes. Thank you. Card. Doesn't matter what it is.

You, you, you, you are a creator, you know, at heart. Yeah. So tell us about your relationship to, to fear. Cuz a lot of people, they may want to make a lot of things, but they want to stay in their lane. Right. And for you, that lane doesn't exist. You. Yeah. So tell us

[00:01:55] Rajesh: more about that. See, the thing is when I was very Ang, I [00:02:00] started reading when I was about, uh, four, five years old.

But then not come from a well off family. Right. So I has to go to the library and then I would say this month, I'm going to read this section. It didn't matter what the section was. But unfortunately for my mom says that I picked the novels section so basically I started reading any, all novels, any kind, whatever, like English or Canada or, uh, anyone, it didn't, it didn't matter.

So I read about 700 books by the time I was nine. So, and if you ask my mom, she will tell most of them, almost all of them are useless books. But what happened was when it do that, you almost think that you can, you can. How the story will evolve. So I used to play a game, ah, this one, I know where the treasure is or this one who is the, you know, who is the mystery, the killer.

I would play the game, but I would fail. It would bother me a lot. And I try to tell my friends that, you know, this story is not right, because this should have happened. This one, [00:03:00] they would laugh. Why do you bother? Just enjoy the story. But for me, it was, I was not satisfied by just, I wanted to predict this is exactly what happens.

Then I thought, you know, when I was about 10 years old, I said, if I write my own novel, but I can make the characters to whatever I want. And so I wrote the old novel, it turned hundred pages in about, uh, eight months. The madness actually began after. Because I said, oh anyway, how many? 10 year old will publish?

Right, right. An hour. When I call a publisher, they'll put a red carpet. Welcome. So I think I should be published in about three months. That's how much naive and immature I was. So I did call the publishers, but no red carpet was put, put their bang, the first slam the phone door and said, well, most people thought I was a prankster.

So, uh, after about 50 rejections, I thought, Hmm, this is not working because I think until that time I thought they were all wrong. Then I thought I am wrong, but then I didn't want to be wrong. So I said, [00:04:00] okay, let me, I don't, I need help. So I started writing to other. Saying, this is what I'm stuck. Can please help me.

But writing means there is no email at that time, you know, says I had to write physical letters. Most of them never got a response one or two of them said we should all the best. Don't give up all those things. Uh, but so, and steadily, uh, I, I continue to, at some point I said, okay, maybe everybody gets rejected 300 times.

I'm still not even halfway. I keep going. So after about hundred 60 reject three and half years later, 13 and half, I got my first novel published and I was the English writer of my state. So actually that is not where I learned everything. So because, uh, in, in my mind I thought, Hey, somebody will publish it.

And they last me is this only book I've written. So I'd written four more novels. So

[00:04:47] CK: wait, wait, wait, before you go further. Yeah. I mean, let's just zoom into that, to that moment that, that, that between 10 year old to however long they take to be to publish. I mean, that to me is courage. That to me is [00:05:00] fearlessness.

Yeah. Or was it. Just naivete. You just didn't know. Cuz most kids, they may dream about being an author one day, right? Yeah. And then the schooling, the parenting tell them, oh, you need to do all these preparation. Yeah. But you just skipped a line. You said I want to do it. So I did it. And even though people were laughing at you yeah.

Thought you were pranking them. You kept going anyway. So, so tell us more on, is this fearlessness, is it courage? Is it inform, you know, decision? Like yeah. Bring us back to that. To, to those years.

[00:05:36] Rajesh: That's a really good question because whenever I faced fear or uh, feeling bad, I would create more. I said, you know what?

I don't know how to deal with fear. So I'll just create more. I kept writing new novel, new something because then when it is there. The uncertainty that comes with my own creation is sort of not very bad uncertainty that comes from somebody else involving it [00:06:00] is not very good because, oh wait, wait,

[00:06:02] CK: say that sentence

[00:06:02] Rajesh: one more time.

See, whenever I'm creating, how much ever is incomplete, let's say I'm halfway through the novel. I'm very confident of completing it. I'm only dependent on myself, isn't it? So I, whenever I'm not dependent on dependent on myself, it's not very bad, it's incomplete, but it's, I can deal with it whenever somebody else is somebody else who bless this book and say, I'll publish it.

I don't have any control on whenever I face too much of. I don't have any control on I'll switch back to place where I have some control on. So that way I'm always good because then there is incomplete and I can focus. So 70 re 80 re I say, I don't have any control on it. So I'll switch back to place where I have some control on it.

Even here, something might go wrong. But I say, you know, I am responsible. It's me, my motivation, my work ethic, my thinking. So in the process of getting rejected, I got four more books there written, so I have five novels at some point in time, I would [00:07:00] say I have written an novel, I would say I've written three novels.

Is this crazy guy or is it real? So basically when the, uh, when it was finally published, I still remember that exact moment. So I somehow got an introduction to the publisher, to one of the authors. And then I, I took it. It's a physical handwritten manuscript. They don't have typewriter or anything. So I gave it to him and I said, oh yeah, Prash told me PKA is well known author in ina.

He told me, so he said you were coming, let me take a look and I'll get back to you. And then he turned around and then he started doing something. And again, he started reading the book right there. He was not looking at me. So I didn't know whether he asked me to leave or I stay. So I stayed. After three hours, he looked around and he said, Hey, you're still here.

I said, yeah, because I thought he will get back to me. He said, I'm waiting. . So he said, oh God, probably you got sympathetic of me or something. He said, you know what? There's a good book. How much do you want? I [00:08:00] said, that was a question I was not ready because I didn't know. I was only used to getting no, no, no.

I'm so used to it. I was almost getting ready to leave thinking this will be another. No, how much do I want? I dunno, hundred rues. I told him it's like one, something like that. Are you sure? He said, yeah, I want hundred rues is you picked up the note hundred and gave it to me. I believe so. It. I mean, I don't say it's good or bad for me.

It was a milestone mm-hmm . So what happened then was what changed my life about everything that I am doing now has a major influence in the next four years. I thought this will be the milestone moment. My life will change. What happened next was even bigger.

[00:08:49] CK: So, oh, wait, so, so be before you go there, I wanted to underline something that you said.

I thought that was really interesting, cuz most people, when they being told no, their motivation [00:09:00] goes down. Yeah. Right. They go home, they, you know, eat, eat some junk food, sleep it off, whatever the thing. Right. They, they basically go back to their corner. Yes. And then, you know, but then not you, because you said, uh, I I'm in control of my life when I'm being told.

No, I'm gonna go create more as a way to come out of that. So during the phase of rejection, you wrote three other books. Yeah. As a result, that is a very. Unique reframe of dealing with rejection.

[00:09:34] Rajesh: Exactly. Because when people get rejected, they think it's all encompassing. That means they were rejected everywhere.

And, uh, the other thing is no, no, they were just rejected on that project for that, that particular person in that current current context in that situation, it's a very, very small thing. People never rejected. Ly. Nobody would say you are not good everywhere all the time forever in your life. No, they never said this book is not worthy [00:10:00] enough for me to consider printing.

That's a, a specific context in a particular time in life. Mm-hmm at that point in time, point in time, it's a rejection. It's okay. I mean, in fact, I always think, imagine when I first Phish and exactly the fi very first publisher published it. There is no thrill in it. There is no growth, re growth comes with resistance.

Mm-hmm all the time. Even in a physical body building anywhere without resistance, there is no growth. Once you understand it, you welcome resistance. Otherwise what's the point. Mm-hmm there is no growth and everything happens exactly the way you want to happen. Mm-hmm , it's boring is like boring. So the thrill is in, uh, the overcoming the resistance because you know, that way overcoming the resistance is where the magic of growth happens.


[00:10:51] CK: I, I, I love this mindset and cuz we are in this mental wellness, mental fitness space. [00:11:00] Yes. And, um, um, let's see, how do I articulate this? It's it's it's very easy for a single setback to determine the totality worthiness of a human being. I'd be that space myself, right? Let's say my business fail. I fail as a human.

And, and it's very easy if we believe that mentality then, and that would take us down to a very, very dark path. You know, my relationship fail. I fail as a human, my whatever, fail my, my health fail. You know, I, I fail as a human. That's a very, very dark space. So I really love the frame that, Hey, it's a particular context, a particular project.

They say no to this, but then the infinite other doors are totally still open. So therefore focus your attention on those things.

[00:11:49] Rajesh: That percent, in fact scripture. And, but with GTA, they say very simple attach yourself to the effort, but we fully, fully committed to it. Detach yourself from the result.[00:12:00]

Because once it detached from the result, because I think getting published is the result that I advertised to. But once it detaches itself and who knows, there may be something else bigger than this, because I'm on this path, you never know, because sometimes you reach a destination by accident because you took a detour and say, oh God, I took a data.

I'm not happy. And the new place you reach is mechanics better than the original destination, because you don't know everything and you don't know what you don't know mm-hmm so it is always going to be there. You don't know how much you don't know. And in that space where you don't know, you don't know magic can be there.

So if you're to be open to experiencing magic and it is very rare that you experience magic in that, you know, you know, space mm-hmm yep. Possible isn't there's no surprise there.

[00:12:50] CK: That's right. Know it that's right. If, if you work on what you know, that, you know, at best is incremental improvement. Exactly.

[00:13:00] For those people. And then those who are watching noble warrior, I trust that you are one of those people who are interested in transformative change, exponential change. So, so that what in my mind would only happen at the edge of what you know, that you know, in and often, in fact, in area that you don't know that you don't know in the blind spot area.

So that's where I see transformational changes happen.

[00:13:29] Rajesh: Absolutely. Right. Because when you were, when you were a kid know, so the, what you were learning was very sidewalk within a sidewalk. There are six topics, six subjects you finish examine. All of the students are, uh, like sort of evaluated with the same rubric that is common and simple.

Like if you get a hundred out a hundred, you must be on the top. You come to life, there's no rubric because how you succeed is completely. Up to you, your own definition, [00:14:00] rubric is created by you. And I cannot argue what your definition of success is. And we both cannot argue what other people's definition of success is because they're evaluated by their own standards.

So, which means for us to be so, uh, thoughtful when we are helping other people that we can never set two, seven rules of success, but who, who tackle? Because they may be thinking something else completely. Yeah. And those seven rules may Dera them from going somewhere. Right? Yeah. So I became very conscious.

I learned this in what happened next was I came from a town called cook, which is a, which is a hill station. Ina. There are only two newspapers, one morning and one evening. So somebody in the evening newspaper, he, he, he found out that I was published. I was 13 and he came to our home and he said, Hey, do you want to work for us?

So we can come and write some articles in [00:15:00] my, you are always like, you think anything is possible. I thought if I can write five novels article, I'll just, it's easy, easy, like 800 words. Come on, give me a break. Yeah, literally I know that it is not easy to write a shorter article compared to a big now, because now you have all this space, you people expect that there'll be some fluff and all those things.

It's only a daily newspaper. You catch your attention or you don't let's it. In the first paragraph, they will decide whether to read the next or not. So first, uh, for four years I worked for the newspaper. First six months, none of my articles got published. Right. Because I thought, and they would tell me because I was a kid.

No. So they would tell me, oh, we ran out of space, but you should rewrite it. I thought they really ran out of space. So I would rewrite everything. How is this? Oh, this would've worked, but you know, it's already published tomorrow. We'll try another spot. Cause it's a daily newspaper. You cannot publish yesterday's news tomorrow has to be daily.

[00:16:00] So when after six months, when I got my first article published the deputy editor, who was my, like a me mentor, he said, you know this, we never ran out space, but your article sucked, man. So it's really bad. I said, wow, what happened? They said, that's when he told me the elements of storytelling did the same thing.

A good person will see more color. That means more high, higher fidelity. They'll observe. More than what other people observe. They'll read between lines. They'll not just be a bystander will say what's happening. This reported. Nobody wants that. They want some insight. Mm-hmm . So at 14, 15, I was getting this kind of thing.

So I became a very good listener, not just listen to what what's, what is said and what is not said, everything. So that, that art of keeping people's attention, uh, and saying things that'll make people want to engage more. I didn't know. It was a really amazing skill at that time. [00:17:00] I only wanted my articles to be published.

Mm-hmm so for that, I had to learn this skill. I learned it not because it is a gift that the person is giving for life.

[00:17:09] CK: Mm, wow. What a gift. Yes. Uh, you had said in one of your videos or interviews, you. during this time at 13, you became a daily newspaper article writer, and you got to hone this skill of rapid storytelling.

Yes. As you have alluded to earlier, you learn how to listen. You know, how to, um, keep people's attention. You learn how to deliver insights because ultimately that's payoff of people reading the newspaper article. So how do you think that prepare you to the social media world today? Sure. Phone, you know, storytelling minute or less 90 seconds, what you got, you know, how do you, can you, can you draw us a line of how you take that skill now to, [00:18:00] um, the social media, you know, economy that we have

[00:18:03] Rajesh: today?

See the on social media is a double edge sword. So many people, many times people think that getting attention on social media is important. There is click way articles. There's things that make them look smart. They'll share a record. That is really exciting, but I always think to do what. So basically I really don't.

Every social media amount of time I spend is extremely small because I'm, I'm all about building relationships. Whatever it takes to build a relationship is only that much. I don't need scale because you don't have enough projects for me to have 1 million people meeting, uh, just reading something I'm only interested in.

If I need to read someone, is there an angle where I can just knock on the door through social media so that that's, then I'll build the relationship offline because offline is where you get, get and give [00:19:00] specific, personalized, deep engagement, and, uh, that kind of help social media. It's never going to be for me, at least for the work that I do.

I don't need the followers as much as I need, um, relationship depth. So I always think that it's easier to start a relationship on social media and maybe I'm very old school, but in real life, the relationships are still built on a handshake. And then one on one, not on social media, the depth of relationship, maybe somebody else has cracked it.

But for me, I still like old school relationship building. So it's easy to get attention on social media or anywhere. The one skill that people are to learn is to do a pattern interrupt. So, because if you don't do a pattern interrupt, there is no surprise. Like I, not all surprises are good, bad surprises.

There are bad surprises. Any negative news is a surprise, but [00:20:00] it's bad. So nobody ha likes that kind of surprise a surprise that lifts them up is what people like. So I'm always thinking, how do I get people's attention? I have chosen the linguistic part, so I make up my own phrases. So that way, if I say something about entre, let's say partnership.

So if I want to say something about partners, you need to build strong partnerships. It's difficult to get attention because everybody thinks they know what strong partnership means. Mm-hmm they may be wrong. Mm-hmm but I can't tell them, Hey, I'm going to tell you about strong partnerships. What, you know may be wrong and I'll we hate it twice.

Mm. So first of all, for interrupting them, and second, who are you to tell me I'm wrong? So they, your defenses up. But if I say something like this, you know, one of the core elements of a strong partnership used to have hunger alignment, and I stopped there. Now I opened up a loop. [00:21:00] They don't know what is hunger, alignment and hunger and alignment.

It does not go together. Isn't it. What's higher alignment. Now they have to read the next sentence to know what I think is hunger alignment. Mm. Never not agree with it's a phrase I made up. So I, I choose to have the meaning that I want to give, but at least I got them, uh, got their attention.

[00:21:24] CK: So I have a question there.

I have, I have a quick question there. If so, yes. We wanna say something that's novel. That's unique to draw attention, but I, I have also found that when it's totally outside of the realm of reality, Then they dismiss it right away, cuz it's not relevant to them. So there's a sweet spot of being a little bit outside, but not so much outside.

Is that an accurate reflection of what you're

[00:21:49] Rajesh: describing? Yeah, I was going there and you, you, you did the pattern interrupt, which is good. So basically I'm glad did it [00:22:00] yeah. So you, you look at it, you can, uh, you can engineer words to get attention, but if you get their attention and don't give them something relevant and valuable, you lose their mindset forever because that's why click base.

They go there and they, and it's something else. What do they think? They don't think, ah, I should not have clicked on it. They'll go. Who is this person who get this click bit? They'll put, they'll give you negative points for you as a person. So next time they're not touched by a click bit. because, and very soon you do it twice.

They just remove you from their list. So first of all, you need to have something valuable and relevant and timely or else. No other tricks will work. So only when you have something of substance, you can do some magic. If you don't have something of substance, then why do magic? Why try all this linguistic acrobatics?[00:23:00]

You just work on it until it, it, substance substance is really good.

[00:23:06] CK: Yeah. I love it. So, okay. So let's drill in on that a little bit, cuz you you've been honing this skill of coining your own phrase for other thought leaders who may want to do that. That, I mean, I'm gonna looking at you, right? Cuz you're coming up with these terminologies.

Like it's nothing. How do I go from someone who don't really coin their own phrases to someone who is, you know, can coin their phrases, you know, whenever they want, what are their skills, you know, to necessary to, to, to get there.

[00:23:40] Rajesh: So what you are asking is how do I become, uh, a pattern interrupting machine?

So, yeah. Good.

[00:23:47] CK: That's a good one. Yes. Uhhuh. That's

[00:23:49] Rajesh: a new one we just created. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. Basically what happens is almost everything in life. Before you gain mastery, [00:24:00] you become a kno or observer of stuff. So where does, where does this skill being exhibited everywhere. I'll pick one area in standup comedy.

They do it again and again, and again, really good standup comic. They always part, I pattern, you're thinking they're going there they'll go somewhere else. Mm-hmm mm-hmm but rather than look, uh, uh, watching them for enjoyment, you watch them for enrichment. Of course you do it once you watch it for enjoyment.

Second round, you watch it for enrichment mm-hmm. what this person could have done while preparing for this standup comic routine. How would he have thought? Or she thought, what is their, what is the way they prepare? You'll be amazed at how much, the first version of that will be almost garbage because they don't start where, where they end mm-hmm

But the practice they keep changing, changing, or talk to many, several [00:25:00] of them. If you look at their first version, it'll be like, I don't know whether you have knowledge of standup comedy. My knowledge is not that good. I would've written, I would've written better. That's how I think, but they don't stop there.

They'll make 16, 17 revisions. And that's the kind of thing we need for our space. Let's say I'm around in the entrepreneurship, uh, growth space. Mm. I just apply the sta the practice of the stand of comics into my space. Like I write ones and then I keep changing, changing, changing, changing until when I deliver it, it looks like a flawless mm-hmm.

why, because I practiced it like a thousand times. So then it's easy.

[00:25:39] CK: So, okay. So on that note, number one, I'm curious to know who is your favorite standup comic? That's one, two, the standup comic, uh, comic, uh, life cycle is this right? They have their set and they go to a local comedy. and they do night after night.

So [00:26:00] that's every iteration. Every time they step on stage to deliver their set and, and once they have hung their material enough and they may sell it to Netflix as an example, right. That's or play at a stadium or something like that. So, so that's a, in my mind, uh, simple life cycle of, you know, a standup comic.

How do we do that? Right. As a, as a thought leader, as a, as a teacher, um, what kind of sets or what iterations can we make?

[00:26:33] Rajesh: Beautiful. So, uh, if I remember, I mean, a standup comic or sitcom. I really like, uh, two shows, like one is the big bang theory Uhhuh and is, uh, like, uh, Jerry se Seinfeld. When now it's not there Seinfeld Uhhuh.

I like Seinfeld because he can make a routine about nothing. That was one of the, I watched it so many. Just that one. I watched it so many times. [00:27:00] What could he have done to write this play? Okay. It's a show about nothing. and then I would've said stop there because it's about nothing, but they didn't, they went on and on about nothing forever.

Mm. So that requires a lot of skill mm-hmm and I mean, watch it the first time thinking if this show is about nothing, it land in five minutes, it didn't, it took the entire half an hour. So if somebody can catch somebody's attention on. That game was a genius. Right? So now I say I have something so valuable.

It's not better than nothing for sure. I should be able to do something about this. Something it's definitely better than something, uh, more than something about nothing. So that's how I get the motivation whenever I'm, if I ever are low on motivation, I just think, Hey, Feld wrote script about nothing. So

[00:27:56] CK: come on.

Yeah. He, he made a whole billion dollar empire on nothing. [00:28:00]

[00:28:01] Rajesh: yes. So it is, it's unbelievable because if you think about it, story is everything mm-hmm . So if, if story is not everything, think about why would somebody pay $50,000 for a wristwatch mm-hmm impossible. Isn't it? Mm-hmm so. Somebody has to tell such a great story.

Mm-hmm that almost make this watch status signaling device. Mm-hmm rather than something to look at, uh, the, the time mm-hmm . So then I studied all the stories of people. What will Rolex say? You'll be amazed as like, there is a tag who, what will it say? It says you can find accurate time at, uh, 60 feet below the water.

Mm-hmm come on. How many people will go to the, the, oh my God. What is the exact time I want to [00:29:00] know? Yeah. Right. Or is great. I'm so happy. And is it split second? Yes. Correct. Uhhuh. I can't even, please, because you're underwater.

Yeah. So, and it says, please pass this on to the next generation. It's a gift we are giving. I mean, come on. If I want to pastor the next generation, I give them home or some plot, something like, I don't need to give a watch, but they make it look like this is it. And any celebrity, they say, okay, this Richard Branson will use this.

He can use whatever he want. He is a billionaire. Why should I buy a what? Because Richard Branson is using it. But the story that is stored makes you think that that's the right decision. So always tell people, if you want to learn storytelling, become a story. Observer. Mm-hmm, , we're all being, they're being seduced to overpay.

It has to be a [00:30:00] story because otherwise, why will anybody pay more than what is required to be told mm-hmm cause the story will tell them it is worth it.

[00:30:07] CK: Yeah. Um, definitely let's come back on the storytelling because I think storytelling is not only important about selling a product. Storytelling is also important about the story we tell ourselves, which is about mental health.

I mean, to me, that's what it is, right? It's the story that we tell ourselves that no one can hear. And also storytelling is also super important for the continuation of generational wisdom, right? What's my family stands for what's the legacy of who I am or this family name or this culture, or this nation or this people, et cetera, etcetera.

Right. So, so story can zoom in to the super micro, to can zoom out to the super macro. We'll come back to that a bit, but coming back to honing our skills to interrupt, to, to be this [00:31:00] pattern interrupt machine, uh, stand up comic, they stand up, stand up on stage night after night to hone their, uh, routine.

What can we do as thought leaders as a way to what, what are the sets that we could have and what are the stages that we can get onto. Hone our, um, our, our, our routines

[00:31:20] Rajesh: see everything that people view whenever, whatever you say, the people view it. We give the weightage depending on the accomplished that, that you have outside of that story, ISN it because basically who, if you say, if I say something really cool, let's say I, I said something like this yesterday.

I was clever. So I wanted to change the world today, I'm wise. So I want to change myself and I stopped there. And then you have some weight because I didn't tell who it was. And I, then I, after I pause, I said, this was room scored and suddenly the weight goes up because roomy is a [00:32:00] famous person and is supposed to be a deep.

But if I say, oh, that was Joe blowing something, you said, ah, what is this? Yesterday was clever. What's the difference for the clever, what nonsense is happening? So if I say something like, stay hungry, stay foolish. I mean, remove who said it, why would I stay hungry? Why would I stay foolish? What, what kind of advice is that?

But if I say, when Steve jobs said this in the, uh, commencement address of, uh, Stanford, he said, stay hungry, stay foolish. Now suddenly the weight increases mm-hmm . So first thing that any thought leader has to think first year to think, how do I increase the weight of what I say before? I think about what to say the weight increases.

If you, uh, if you accumulate accomplishments that are valuable, if you make contributions that are valuable. So before they go and say, select me to the wordsmithing and [00:33:00] verbal magic, I always say. How do I AC accrue and AC accumulate accomplishments and contributions. That is where the real magic is. So, uh, I say that if you want to develop only one skill, there's a precursor to any of these skills.

It is to develop the ability to give meaningful gifts at scale at a very low incremental cost to you. Mm. Once you do that, you are like Santa Claus of value. So you meet someone and then you blow them off with, I call it blitz of loud. So basically say that again. You lost me blitz of L

[00:33:40] CK: okay. I blitz you don't

[00:33:42] Rajesh: know what that blitz is a German, um, for the attack from all, all angles, but you can reframe it and say, you can love, send love from all angles.

Mm-hmm . So basically it's a war, uh, terminology where they say you surprise the enemy by attacking you from eight directions. [00:34:00] But you can, it is just to win the war, but you have, you win the heart to surprise the person sending love from all directions. Mm-hmm so it's the same thing. You can apply it in a different play.

Why war? Right. So we can have love. So my thinking is if they develop the ability to give meaningful gifts at scale, at a very low incremental cost to them, what will they do? They'll practice it as if it's like a nothing. It's like a walk in the park, right? So then what happens if 80% of them don't recipro 90% of them don't reciprocate the other 10% reciprocate because you give them a valuable gift.

Mm-hmm you have more power than what you will ever need in your whole life. Mm-hmm because for anything to, uh, complete, you need capacity, the capacity can come from your intelligence, your hard work, everything about you. Plus how much of [00:35:00] excess capacity have access to from other people who will willingly give their best because you needed it.

Some of them will even do proactively. And when you see this in action, you says that guy is so lucky. That girl is so lucky. No, they're not lucky they did their homework before now they're ripping the rewards. Only thing is you're observing only in the snapshot of time. At that time, it looks lucky, but you don't know what they did before this time.

Isn't it? So my thing I'm like a gardener. So I call it I'm a dot gardener. So not any vegetables, but I, I garden dots. What is the gardening dot means? Applied dots means, you know, Steve jobs said dots will connect in the future. So I said, but you have to place the dots first to connect in the. So if I have a garden of dots, that means I garden of good, uh, help for people.

Even if they're never reciprocate, I don't care. You have enough dots in your [00:36:00] garden. Some of them will connect in the future and magic will happen.

[00:36:03] CK: Mm mm. I love that. That's a, that's a great metaphor. Um, you know, one of the things that entrepreneurs say a lot is adding value. How do I add value? How do I value?

And, and some people use that as just like a phrase they say, but if you look at their action, they don't actually do it. And then some of the most successful quote, unquote entrepreneurs or creators are just human beings in general. They not only say it, but they, they, they be it, they, they, they do it. And, uh, as, as a, as a daily practice.

And then if, if we think about, you know, how much we can get quote unquote from the world, As a derivative of how much value we add, right? Let's say if I give you a hundred dollars and then say, Hey, gimme a dollar back. Like, of course, you know, you do that all day, right? so, so if we can add value, [00:37:00] as you said, uh, at minimum incremental costs at scale, everywhere we go, if we could just do that as a, as a, as a principle, as a practice, then, you know, the abundant life that we all desire is gonna be a foregone conclusion,

[00:37:17] Rajesh: see a hundred percent agree with you.

Uh, the way I'll say it, if I want to use my own termin, I say, if you become a merchant of possibilities, you are never out of work and you were never out of your own possibilities. See, everybody is looking for new possibilities. If you always think about them. And so what new possibilities can I create?

Because I am now in their life, then automatically you will look for it. Like a tourist always finds what he or she is looking for. If I go there into this meeting or any meeting, I say, what new possibilities can I create? Then I'm looking for the right things. So, uh, I call it the Delta fee Delta T advantage.

So what is

[00:37:59] CK: Delta [00:38:00] Delta T advantage? Is that what you said? Yeah, Delta, I love it. You just coming up with terms all the time. Amazing.

[00:38:07] Rajesh: So think about it. This is, there are only two kinds of, um, uh, perform two kinds of value that is easily recognizable and visible to the whole world. One is called deltaT, which is the time advantage, which is basically you are going to destination, uh, in a, like a speed board.

And then I come in and say, no, the latest drone, which you can go, and then you can reach that faster. Right. And then that's a Delta. You can go. Or Delta P it's a better something better. Let's say you are creating a engine with some certain horsepower and with no change in the cost and everything. I'll make you create an engine with 1.5 X of that horsepower.

And is the Delta P it could, it could have both, right? In the case of you are going through with the speed board, I can make you get there. And I say, CK, you don't have to get there. Now that [00:39:00] you have the drone, you can go to a better place. That means the Delta P and Delta T, and the last one, which, which is not easily visible, recognizable, it's got Delta E, which is the experience because most of the time, when all, all else is equal, the experience makes the difference.

It makes you stand out. So what would we say? deltaT Delta, Delta, what are in three vectors? How much value can you add? In one meeting? You can add a lot. First, you should drop your own agenda. That way you are very clean. If I'm thinking, what will I get? What will I get? It gets muddied because it's too much of internal processing.

First, you say my goal is to hear the greatest of insights value that they can apply tomorrow morning, then I'm free because I am just thinking about anybody else who is listening to this? What can they do? And then when they go into a situation, rather than using terms, I want to add value. Can they add value in Delta?

Can they add value in Delta? [00:40:00] Or can they add value in Delta or a combination of these three or all of them? At what extent, when it is verified by a third party, not you, because you'll always feel good about this. Did you have a good meeting? Yeah. Great meeting. No. Will somebody else who is watching this or the recipient of that value says my God, this person is so good.

That I'm missing him in the past. That means I should have met this person 10 years ago, five years ago. Mm that's. When you are truly added value. Mm.

[00:40:32] CK: I love that. Uh, I love that you also use terminologies like vectors and things like that's such a mathematical geeky. I love it.

[00:40:43] Rajesh: I'm an engineer. What can I do?

So basically I'm always interested in, you know, giving some, uh, some frameworks for things that people cannot measure. So like gratitude, generosity, value. Mm-hmm there's no, there's no skill. That'll say how much value we added, but [00:41:00] I can get a proxy. So if, if I reasonable amount of value in such a way that at the lowest level, somebody says this made my day.

Anything else that happens is a bonus that's at one end of the value. highest value creation is, oh my, why did I not meet this person years ago? My life would've been different. Mm-hmm within that scale, you can only decide where you fall, anything below that this made my day. Then if you, if that response did not come, but you think you added value, then you are in there.

You're telling a fantasy story yourself. Wait, wait,

[00:41:34] CK: wait back up one sentence one more time.

[00:41:37] Rajesh: See, basically when you truly add value, it has to fall in between these two, uh, sort of, uh, um, experiences or responses. One response. This might my day, anything more good today is a bonus here at one level.

[00:41:56] CK: So, so the question I have, so lots of questions here.

I mean, we [00:42:00] can just focus on the whole podcast here. So there is. Lagging indicators. And, and then, and then leading indicators, sometimes a value add is a seed that you planted that may not blossom immediately. They may not appreciate right away. Um, so how do you know, you know, if they actually creative value in the moment or immediately after, or they even care about that, you, you even track

[00:42:26] Rajesh: that at all, you are a high fidelity observer.

That kinda that point, I can tell you very few people observe this phenomenon. Whenever they say it, there is no, this is good, but you go very, very deep, which I like, see, there's always a balance of between who is, who is the recipient of the value. Let's say we're adding this value to just, just, just now you finished college or she finished college and you are saying something your own expectation of how much they understand.

What I did to them has to be reset because. Suppose I [00:43:00] introduced this college just now graduated percent to somebody that will change their life forever. I know it, they don't, but I know that they don't. So I'm okay with it because I don't need to prove the value that I'm adding every single time, because that's too much work.

So my goal is to be on the dojo, always creating value, not expecting that this, everybody will recognize it now or later or something. So as long as I know that I'm a positive possibility in the future they're creating for themselves, then I'm good. So if I am not a positive possibility in the future, they're creating for themselves, then I have to go to work.

They don't have to do anything. Isn't it. So the younger people, they may not realize the difference between this introduction, how valuable it is for the rest of their life. I don't have the time to teach them, Hey, you should not look at all. Introductions equal. [00:44:00] You should know who is being introduced, what they will learn, what is positive possibility in the future?

They're creating, they'll go nuts. They say what? This person this's too much philosophy preaching. Just do the work and let them realize the magic. Maybe two years from maybe 10 years from now, but I'm not attached to the result. Yeah. Cause I'm interested in more dots.

[00:44:22] CK: Yeah. Uh, what I'm hearing is you're doing this more for you, so it's think about it this way.

More intrinsic satisfaction of adding value rather than having some kind of attachment to, oh, I'm creating a hundred units of positive value with this meeting, that meeting this meeting that like, because ultimately that's, you have so much abundant value creation. That you know, doesn't matter anymore.

You can just add value over where you go. Is that an accurate reflection of how you think about

[00:44:53] Rajesh: this? It is almost there. I tell one, one small, um, um, let's say 1%. I'll [00:45:00] tell you what the difference is. Okay. If you want to go, let's say we were talked about the game of go. You want to become better at, or even cricket or football or anything.

If you want to get better at it, you need to play that game more. You cannot read about it and get better. Isn't it? Imagine value creation is a game. How will you become better at it without playing it? Isn't it. So anytime I go to any meeting and they don't get a response in between one of these two arrange, which is this made my day, everything else is a bonus on one side.

Oh my God. I should have met this person long back my life. Would've been different. If I don't do it, it's a reflection on me that I need to play this better. Not anything I'm not even competing with anybody in the world. There's enough to compete with me myself. Why should I even worry about how, how other people are doing it?

I lonely look at other people as an inspiration, not as a [00:46:00] competition. Mm-hmm because my life is different. Their life is different to who am I? What are my comp? It's like apples to oranges. Mm-hmm but one thing I know who I am. I know it very, very clearly. Could I have done better? That's the feedback I want.

If I'm after I'm being 52 years in this planet, if I cannot, if I go to a meeting and cannot add enough shame on me, not because somebody else will do it differently. I read so many books. I've written 18 books. Why is that? I was not thoughtful and caring that I could not create that kind of value is what I go back in my homework.

[00:46:41] CK: Mm. I see. So you also have a daily reflection ritual. Yes. Where you think about your meetings, your day, your encounters with people. And then think about this question. If you didn't get this, this may my day, or why did I meet you then you would reflect on [00:47:00] how could I have done better to add more value to this particular

[00:47:03] Rajesh: individual?

Yeah, it is just I'm I'm examining myself that maybe I was not in my, maybe I didn't prepare. Well, maybe I was not listen, good listener. Everything is on me because the only person I have some control on to changes me anybody else, if I'm thinking I'm going to change somebody, I met welcome their spouse is trying to change them for 20 years.

Parents tried to change them for like 40 years. Friends tried to change them for another 25 years. They didn't. What, what am I thinking that I'm like, God, to make them change, but me, I have some control on changing because I can make it change small, small, and then make it a habit. Yeah.

[00:47:46] CK: You, you mentioned a term earlier, you said dojo, which this is the noble warrior podcast.

We used the dojo analogy quite a lot. Right. So we want to be better at value creation. In [00:48:00] my mind, there are moves that you can practice to be a better, uh, value creator. And also in martial arts, there are QTA, there are like forms that you can practice, right?

So you can, you can be better at value creation in your mind. Are there QTA, are there like, like basically modules that, you know, has some proven effect and you just continue to hone those, those QS as you go throughout your day. And then based on the situation you bring out specific QS to add value to the situation.

[00:48:38] Rajesh: Quite a powerful question. I just love it. So when somebody asks me a good question, I, my juices start playing because. Very rarely. Somebody asked me these kind of questions. I wish somebody else asked this question before, because I had so many things to share, but without a question, I cannot say, Hey, let, let me tell you what questions to ask [00:49:00] then.

I, no, that won't be good. It'll fabricated. When you ask a question, I'll tell you more modern work. So basically there are, I'll tell you a few, for example, mm-hmm so, um, let's say somebody comes to me to an idea many times. If the idea is bad, it doesn't matter. What I said, the core idea is bad, so nothing will happen.

So, but now the person is so passionate about the idea. Now I had to make him revisit the idea without being defensive. So if I say something, Hey, this idea is not good. Suddenly say, you know, 10 other people have told me. It's a good idea. I think, let me explain it. But I always go back to the first principles.

If this idea is good, if he has not made money for three years, then something has to be relied at isn't either he is a really bad marketer or salesperson, or the idea is bad, but I cannot tell him because he's too invested or he's too invested. So I have a [00:50:00] routine that always works. I say something like this, it was Don.

I said, Don, you know, I have trouble of, uh, putting feet, putting my foot in the mouth. I say, whatever I feel and whatever I, my heart says, and I get into trouble because sometimes people just get upset. But I only one case I got like got through to people. If the person is extremely smart and thoughtful, I have no trouble telling them, uh, something on their face.

In this case, Don, I get that comfort feeling that you are extremely smart and thoughtful. So is it okay if I tell you what I feel? And then I tell my idea, this idea sucks. What can don't do is defenseless. If he tries to defend me, then he is telling I'm not that extremely smart or thoughtful. So it cannot.

I give a, I [00:51:00] set an identity for him that is not possible to attack me back. So that's one thing that I want, I always want to say what's on my heart. I've seen people defending themselves and when they start defending, they don't listen because they're all about winning. So I, to that one framework where I set the person to listen first, it's very important.

You can say, they're not listening well, you didn't do the right things for them to be able to listen. The environment has to be created to listen. So that's the first thing. Second thing is what I call out sea to be outstanding. You need out execute. To out execute. You need outthink, but to outthink you're to out sea.

So when people are going fast, everything is a blur on them. Because once they say, uh, this idea, somebody says, pat, on the back, this is good. They start running. Then they become selective listeners. That means whatever is [00:52:00] good for that idea. They listen, whatever is bad. That's anion, you know, I don't have to listen to it and they totally ignored.

So I had to make them see things. That'll make them change the fundamentals with which view they looked at the idea. So first say this, you know, to be outstanding out, execute out, executed out thing, thinker out, see to give them an example. Let's say there are Lego blocks. There are, um, hundred of them. You just pour them.

And then actually there are four more, but they went behind this book book stack only I can see, so I can see 1 0, 4. You can see only a hundred. Whatever said and done. I see more possibilities in the Lego blocks because I see there's extra four than you can see. And when I set that up, they say, they ask me a question.

What should I be seeing that I'm not seeing? If they ask that question, even in their mind, they don't have to literally ask me, then I can go [00:53:00] and show them something that they have not seen. So then they're open because they didn't, they didn't have this information. So then there's another framework. Can I show them something that they did not see, but it is material to their company.

I can go on more and more, but I just wanted to say a couple of things.

[00:53:20] CK: No, I mean, I really appreciate it. Uh, one of the things that my, one of my technique. To, uh, introduce idea that may not necessarily be favorably received is asking for permission. Hey, do I have permission to share something with you?

And they say yes, and then it's, you know, game on. I can deliver whatever I need to deliver, but without permission then, you know, it's easy for the defense mechanisms to come up and for them to justify. So that's one little technique that, that I use as a way to, as you know,

[00:53:57] Rajesh: deliver. It's very good.

Beautiful. I said, in fact, I [00:54:00] don't know whether you read this book exactly what to say by Phil Jones. No. So that's a really good book and he uses similarly, he was a one phrase called open-minded he'll say, are you open mind enough to look at a new way of doing. Who the hell will say no, no, I'm not. I'm just close minded.

I not, nobody will say it. It's it's an always been, oh yeah, of course. Uhhuh. So now you can say, see some forward thinking. People will always look at new ideas with an open mind. I'm sure you look like one of them am right. Uhhuh now there's they cannot say no, I'm not backward thinking. Cause I don't know very far think they cannot say it.

So they're open to idea. So,

[00:54:47] CK: so I'm, I'm thinking, cuz I'm thinking sort of martial art terms as well. Right? There's the ego and there's what, you know, the, the, our spirit. So in some ways, what we are talking about here is we [00:55:00] appeal to the ego, right? The identity I'm smart. I'm motivated. I'm an innovator. I'm understanding I'm wise.

I'm open-minded like, sure. Okay. So you kind of like jujitsu or, uh, Ike our way. bypassing the ego by asking for permission and a P two.

[00:55:17] Rajesh: Exactly. In fact, you should have something of value, really substance. If you do that, if you do the first trick without the second one, then we lose their mindset. Because if, if I interrupt and I don't give enough value, let's say, get to their head, but not give them enough value.

Then it's not fair at that time. I say, somebody asked me a question this morning, what do you think of that market in that country? I said, anything I say, I'll be making up, said to look smart. So I don't have enough information in that market, in this country. But I know someone who might, so I just connected them.

So rather than saying, oh, okay. So I just Google something and said that that market is good, amazing in the last [00:56:00] few years, why it's too much work. So best is to say I'm not competent in that domain of knowledge, but somebody else might be, it's easier to send it to them. So they get good help either you provide good help or no help, or some point them to the direction where they can get good help, not confuse them.

Because I, we, I don't have an ego. I don't know everything. So why should I claim to, uh, know everything or it's, it's too much, um, drain on my own brain. Yeah.

[00:56:31] CK: So just quick question about cuz in my mind, as you're speaking, I'm also starting to think about stages of development. Entrepreneurship as an example in the, in the, in the beginning stages, let's say maybe this is a new venture.

Maybe this person may not know all of the market or know all of the people. So any new information or, or new facts could be quite, um, uh, adding value to this person. [00:57:00] Right. But as I also hear, uh, the more mature they are in their development of their mind of the entrepreneur mind, they may not necessarily need just tactical data.

What they need ultimately is a new perspective. Yes. Uh, uh, um, uh, sort of, uh, a way for them to see blind spots that they may not be even aware of or potential risk or potential, um, revenue or a company growth and so on and so forth things that they may not like a, like a, like a new view into reality that they may not even have consider that's my.

Uh, thought in, in, in that, do you see any similar, whereas, um, sort of leverages to add value to any situation that make sense at all?

[00:57:53] Rajesh: This beautiful lesson. When I started, I started linguistic philosophy for seven plus years. My [00:58:00] teacher used to use this analogy and this comes out very strong for the entrepreneurial, any project ventures.

It's a two distinctions called organization and structure. So many people think they understand it. Sometimes once they explain it, they will know that the way they understood it may not be fully complete. So if I say a bicycle and then stop, there is an image of something that came into your mind.

Definitely that image of a bicycle did not have three wheels. Isn't it? Mm-hmm I did not say I said bicycle mm-hmm . But knowing you, you probably are a mountain biker or something. You are by, it's a very different, everything will be the same. There are two wills. One will be in the front. One will be in the back.

There is a seat it's attached and then there's a connection from one will to another will. There's a handle. Everything is same. So an organization is an arrangement of certain proper, certain, certain items. Just that's all there is. But where [00:59:00] the difference is that if you're a mountain biker and I'm a weekend warrior, I just go around here and there, our bikes from outside for those per people who don't know enough about bikes, we look the same, but I know that I paid like thousand dollars and you pay like $7,500 because you have ally wheels, lighter weight, and then you have gas.

I don't have it is, uh, ergonomically, well designed. It's designed for speed. I don't have all those things. It's the same look, looks the same. So a company or an a company is just like that you should need an organization. That means the right people should be working on right things. So the way I assess a company is do they have the right organization?

But what is structure structure is the difference in the components, the, the quality of the components, the nature of the components, which is if, if it's ready for a biking on a mountain, it need, it needs this ally wheels, but the wheel looks the same. No, no, no, but it's [01:00:00] ally wheels. So it's very different.

It's prier and it lighter. So both have to be right organization, the structure, which means, let's say there's building a company and then they they're not build the product, but they hire a CMO. Then it's the wrong structure, the wrong organization, wrong structure, because the CMO has nothing to do for the next two years.

Isn't it. But if they don't have a visual ex experience designer, then the structure organization is missing apart. And let's say they have a junior designer and it's competing in a high, highly competitive market. Then they have the organization, the structure is wrong because this person needs to be a stellar UX designer, but they don't have a junior one because they wanted to save money.

So just looking at their organization structure, you don't wear the gaps are, they may not know it because sometimes they say they look at, so this kids work in some college stuff and say, we can do it. It's a very simple application. No. What do you see on the outside is a reflection of [01:01:00] the thinking inside.

So the thinking inside cannot be determined just by seeing from the outside. You have to ask the person, how would you approach this problem? What will, what will you think when the, when you design this? So just, that's why it's easy because I'm smart. I just go to the first principles. And when people are saying about their company, I just listen.

Just listen and listen, listen, they themselves will tell me, what is the organization? What is the structure? Where are the gaps mm-hmm and then I just reflect back on them and then automatically they get enough value. Cause they don't think in first principles cause they watched, uh, many times they want read the tech grant and any of these things, any news of any significance, usually an exception.

So mm-hmm, , it's not a rule because if it is a rule, they won't get into the news. So when you just are inspired by news, then you are chasing an exception as if it's a rule that's already a blind spot. Mm. [01:02:00]

[01:02:00] CK: I love that. Um, I appreciate your explanation because it shows me that I need to hire a video editor ASAP.

Uh, so thank you for that. That's an insight that I, I wasn't expecting, but thank you for that.

[01:02:18] Rajesh: see. This is the beauty of you. Say you are not only listening. You're also thinking, Hmm. How does it apply to me? So that shows so many things for me. One is we're very comfortable with this model because if you are not, you cannot go switch to your own context.

And then you switch back to the interview because you'll be thinking, oh, I want to know the next question. No, you are very, it's a conversation. Mm-hmm . So that means you mastered the heart of a conversation enough so that you can give a mind a break and also reflect on your own situation and come back as if nothing happened.

That's the way to assess progress. And with you, I already, you I'm [01:03:00] telling something you already know. So, oh,

[01:03:02] CK: I appreciate it. Um, one of the key distinction that I learned from a transformational program some time ago is who we are as human beings are the network of conversations that we engage in

[01:03:17] Rajesh: beautifully said, yes,

[01:03:18] CK: I agree.

and for me, I, I struggle with that concept quite a lot. Cuz you know, uh, for many years I was a technologist, a PhD in biomedical engineering, you know, so I thought technology was everything and that slowly venture over to the podcast world. And I really had to grapple with, well, what is the value of a conversation?

So it wasn't until I, uh, got into podcasting, got into publishing video, you know, all these things for a few years and I realized, Hey, there's real value in one having conversation with another human being, but two [01:04:00] allowing other people to Vero into, you know, a conversation between smart, conscious, motivated, goodhearted people.

So then they. um, how should we say, uh, take the, the wisdom with them to, to, to help with them with their lives? Right? So there's real value in allowing people to, um, get into our network of conversations that we, um, engage with

[01:04:27] Rajesh: each other. Beautiful. Listen said, you know, you build this. If you can restrict it a little bit, because it's not all conversation, because there is some conversation on TV that you, you would, you would be better off if you miss them than have through them.

But the conversation that you are referring to our people, conversation with competent people with real depth in knowledge, and we're willing to share, they don't have their own agenda. What happens is it's a playground of possibilities, isn't it? Because it's, the perspectives are thrown and then not everything you will like, but [01:05:00] you'll pick up a perspective.

One new perspective will change the trajectory of your life. Present. You could not see the world in this way now you cannot stop, uh, seeing it because the world is different. Like, for example. So if I say, I can give you one perspective, that'll make you calm forever. So is it okay if I share it? Yeah, of course.

So it's like this, anytime anything happens because you'll become, when things are going your way, the only time you'll lose your calmness is you are expecting something, something else happens. There's a dispatch in the expectation and reality. And whenever that happens before you blow your socks, like blow your top.

No, you just think I do their time travel because we are unlike animals. We can do time travel, always. They go 10 years to the 10 years forward and they look back at this exact. Let's say in my case, it was, I got [01:06:00] diagnosed with Parkinson's. I always go back 10 years forward and say, look at this exact moment.

It'll be, it'll have very little value to me because it's one of those many things that would've happened. Anything for that. When you had a fight with someone, anything in fact to prove that go back 10 years before now it's through 2020 to go to 2012. And I say, okay, what is the most significant thing that happened in 2012?

You'll have a hard time thinking about it because nothing will be remembered and will be that important. That is the case. Why am I blowing this out of proportion? What is there to lose my mind on this? Mm-hmm is that there's nothing of significance. People cannot, many times people do not even remember one thing 10 years ago.

Mm-hmm and if that is the case 10 years from now, it's all good.

[01:06:57] CK: um, so I have a, [01:07:00] I have a loving challenge for you, right? Mm-hmm so I agree with you because I'm very much a rational thinker. I'm a systems thinker. Um, however, I have experienced moments where in hindsight, you know, I was blowing off my top for no reason, really right.

Over little things because our body, our emotions in that moment experience real trauma in that moment. Mm. Even though logically, it didn't really like, if you look at the, the actual event that happened, doesn't matter, like somebody passed you, somebody swing at you, whatever somebody says, some hurtful things you, in that moment, it seemed like a gigantic thing in the moment.

So, and it's hard for the rationalists to reconcile that because you're. We can distance depersonalize, ourself and look at it, you know, and travel through time, scale you backwards and forwards and, and, and, and, and, and give a rational results. What, what you're proposing is a rational response, [01:08:00] but in the moment, emotional response is big is real.

It, it may not be true, but is real in the moment. So how do you reconcile the two?

[01:08:12] Rajesh: You don't reconcile it. You pattern interrupt it because you know, this, this is what is going to happen. Mm-hmm so make it a habit. Ask this one question. Anytime this happens. Mm-hmm where is the hidden rainbow? Where is what?

Hidden rainbow hidden rainbow Uhhuh. You just look for something positive in this completely negative thing. Where is the hidden rainbow? There is a hidden rainbow here. Mm. I want to find it because the mind has to be occupied with things that are right for you. Mm-hmm not right for emotions will take over.

When you interrupt it, then mine gets to work. Where is that? I need to find something good here. Where is it? Mm-hmm there's always something good. There's always something good. But if you're not looking for it, you'll not find it mm-hmm is that in fact, if you think about it, your greatest [01:09:00] moments of growth came with the greatest moments of adversity.

Mm-hmm because that's where you learned a lot. You grow faster than somebody loses a parent. Somebody lost their job. And at that time it looked like, oh God, this is crazy. Mm-hmm this exact time, 10 years from now. You know that it's so that's why you can manufacture this rather than wait for it to happen.

How do you manufacture this? You start proactively helping people who are going through this situation. Mm-hmm what happens. Because of deep empathy, you will witness what the challenges they're going through, and you want to be gen generous. You put yourself in their shoes and start working on it. So you build the muzzles of dealing with this by practically helping other people who are going through it, because we can't go through all the good times that other people are going through, which is what, if you want to see that you can go to Facebook.

So somebody will be celebrating something, something collectively, you cannot do everything. So that's, that's impossible. You also won't go through [01:10:00] all the bad things that everybody is going through, but you know that the moments of growth happen in the moments of adversity, somebody else is going through adversity.

Now don't wait for them to ask for help you ally, go and see, what can you do in the process? You also build your strength.

[01:10:19] CK: Mm-hmm yeah, I love it. I'm very much, you know, of that mindset as well. Uh, hence why I seek out. Challenges like Spartan race. I was ceremonies, right? Things like that. Cuz I it's not like I I'm a, I'm a, I'm a masochist.

I enjoy pain. I don't find it pleasurable. But for me the meaning that I derive from it, the growth, the, the insights, the lessons, I optimize my life for growth for lessons, for insights percent. I say that. So, so, so, so, so it's, it's, it's a automatic muscle that I had these days [01:11:00] is, um, you know, what is a lesson in this?

Mm. And then also, uh, recently, uh, I have taken on this mantra only joy. So, so how do I find joy in adversity? How do I find just. Life is lifeing all the time. How do I find joy? The highlights? How do I find joy? The low lights. That to me is a muscle that I want to cultivate in my life as a way to live a more, not only purposeful, but joyous life.

[01:11:30] Rajesh: It's a very interesting, so for me, joy has to be a default setting for people. So, which means SOAN cannot find joy outside. We know that because joy is an internal response. Mm-hmm so, so let's say we are, we decide to be joyful from now forever. Mm-hmm who has the capability to disturb or piece nobody mm-hmm because it's it's it's my choice.

Mm-hmm to be joyful or not is a personal choice. Mm-hmm and once you've made it it's forever. Mm-hmm that's like you [01:12:00] don't already brush your teeth. Nobody is checking. Hey, did brush your teeth. Yes or no. No, nobody checks. It's my choice. Mm-hmm I want to brush my teeth morning, evening. It's good like that.

I say 24 by seven. If I'm waking up, I am joyful. Nobody can stop. I mean, it'll look artificial if some really tries it to happen. So of course you, there are moments of it. That's why every rule has an exception. So there are some exceptions, but joy should not be the exception that you search for joy should be the rule that you live by.


[01:12:32] CK: yeah, man. Um, it's my new religion. 2022. Yes . And also, if you think about it only joy.

[01:12:40] Rajesh: Yes. If anybody meets you, it, it comes out even third. You speaking about because the inner piece is always displayed in the external word. You, you wear the inner piece, you are disturb joyful. You just show up when people know you, you have some level of inner peace.

That is [01:13:00] uncommon. I'm sure people have said told you this. Mm-hmm

[01:13:05] CK: yeah. Calmness. Yes. Yes. I'm very calm. Um, thank you for this. So let me ask you a question. All right. So let's segue a little bit, cuz you had mentioned, I don't need scale. I'm interested in building relationships, right? So your content that you put out since, for years and years, actually, I remember you talk about blogging 2012, right?

For my research. So you're being constantly generating content. So tell me about how do you balance generating content and also building relationships? Because our mutual friend, ES Bri, she said 90 10, she said, uh, 90% is relationship building for her outreach to specific people. And then 10% is just content.

So that's her sort of internal metrics. How do you think about generation of content and [01:14:00] also the effort to build relat.

[01:14:02] Rajesh: uh, first of all, I don't connect the two because I'm a writer. I write every single day, whether I publish or not. I write every day since I was 10 years old, I've written at least one page every single day.

So, and I, lot of it is for my own satisfaction. So, and I reflect every day and all the content that I generate comes because I'm involved in some project helping someone for money or no money. So I need some lesson that I think if I abstract it out, some, some other people somewhere in the world might find value from there.

Mm-hmm right. So basically it's all about by doing, what am I observing if I observe a little bit more with higher fidelity, what insight can I generate that I can share? And I'm not expecting million people to read because I don't need million people. So once they read it, it'll make somebody aha. I didn't think of it presented.

So, and I'm involved in content generation, uh, [01:15:00] every. And then I'm involved in solving problems every day I'm involved in teaching someone, something, all three will be a good virtual cycle. So like if I'm teaching, what will people say? Like somebody like you will ask me really deeper questions. That'll help me in, uh, generating better content because I go back and reword this interview.

She asked me this question, did I do the right job? What else could I have said now in my new blog post or somewhere, I'll do it. And then when I'm solving problems, I get deeper inside this reading what I wrote and said, mm, have I applied this? Why have I not applied this? If I do apply it because I have enough people who are mentoring.

So there are enough projects to use my content and see if it works in real life. If it does not work in real life, or if it works in real life, I get more, more bang for the bucks. Like my content is more stronger. My teaching is far better. My execution is far better. The trifecta always [01:16:00] works.

[01:16:01] CK: I love it.

So you have a daily writing practice. You have a daily publishing practice as well. Do you publish every day?

[01:16:09] Rajesh: You don't always, no. I used to do that when I was 2005, when I started blogging, I used to say, uh, every day I will write and I did it well, but then I thought, you know, what is my purpose? My purpose is to create more value.

Sometimes it is better that if I get an idea, I try it, execute it through one or more of my companies I'm involved in and I hone it and keep betting better and better and better. And then I publish it. Like, for example, I was working on a project called why do some people get help? And most people don't, most people don't get the help they're looking for mm-hmm and I said, it depends on what is called help ability, help ability.

[01:16:49] CK: Yeah. I'll oh my gosh. You're just amazing. I love

[01:16:54] Rajesh: it. Keep going. I came up with the help score. So basically I said, if, how do, how, how [01:17:00] does somebody assess whether they're helpable or not, they should have a metric. So, and there's no metric, but there's no scale leaders, meters, kilometers, nothing. Right. So I met up my own score, so I was going strong on it.

And until one of my friends Sterling, who's a dear friend. He's also going through Parkinson's he's amazing internet marketer. He said, RA, this is good, but it's one. Nice terms that is generated. But come on, this has to be easier than that. I said, what do you mean? He said, you know, nobody will say you didn't get the help because you are not your help ability score is less.

That looks so artificial. I said, what do you have in mind said, just think of a conversation. Somebody just didn't get the help they need. And then you say something like this, maybe you, you are, you had a bad ask. You should make a good ask. If you're making a good ask, you'll get better help. What was

[01:17:50] CK: the word that you used?

[01:17:51] Rajesh: What was the word? Bad ask versus good.

[01:17:54] CK: Ask a bad ask. Good ask. Yes.

[01:17:56] Rajesh: Uhhuh Uhhuh. So I immediately switched it and pushed the help [01:18:00] ability into the background. And uh, I said, you know how the art of making good asks to get what you deserve. We have to make a good ask and can the framework banger. I love it.

Oh my gosh. Because the help ability is still there, which is hidden inside. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Huh. So I learn. And so rather than publishing it, I'm still defining. And I say, I'll teach this to some people. And I say, let me show you how to make a good ask. And there are like nine different elements, how to work through the element, the framework and everything.

But if I had the temptation to publish the help ability soon, then I, it would not be tested enough.

[01:18:40] CK: Mm. I love it, man. Um, so many, I mean, number one, I, I definitely want a copy of the book when it comes out, so definitely, yeah. Please, please send them to, to me, you know, I'll, I'll ask all of my, uh, audience to, to buy it.

[01:19:00] Yes.

[01:19:00] Rajesh: So, Hmm. And I say, you know, what, what, because I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm in love with words, right? I said, if you practice good asks, you'll be a badass. If you stay with bad asks either it'll be bad or it'll stay as an ask like that. ,

[01:19:18] CK: it's kind of like, it reminds me of this quote, the quality of life depends on the quality of the question that we ask.

So you can say something similar, right? The quality of our alive depends on the quality of ask that you have yes. Of yourself, of others, of the world of God, depends on hundred percent quality of ask that you have.

[01:19:43] Rajesh: You know, what I've observed is if you make a really good ask, the ask will not even look like an ask.

It looks like a presenting an opportunity for the other person mm-hmm . Yep. Yeah. So that's where the ultimate ask is one where we're presenting an opportunity. [01:20:00] Mm-hmm the side effect of that person signing up for the opportunity is that you get what you want. They get what they deserve. Both of you get what they, what you.

[01:20:10] CK: The best entrepreneurs that I know operate like that what you just said. Cause it's not like, Hey, can you do like the bad ask would be, I don't know, I want this do it right. That's a really, really bad ask. A better one would be, uh, Hey, could I, can you do me a favor? Like, so you're doing some kind of favor, some, some, you know, social currency happening, but the best kind of ask is, Hey, I have an opportunity and I'll pay you this.

You, you do it. You get money and da, da, da, everyone feels good about it is like, of course. Yeah. You know, and people jump on that. So if you, if you have some kind of training or methodology to help people get to that and that's money right there.

[01:20:52] Rajesh: See if you think about it, all you have to do is everybody is going somewhere in their life by default.

Isn't it. They're [01:21:00] going somewhere. Your ask has to be in alignment with where they're going. But by engaging with this, their own path becomes better or even faster. But this, ah, I didn't think of that. I would've done this for free. You are paying me money. It's like a bonus kind of thing. Mm-hmm . But if you make, you are want a collection of side effects of everybody else doing the before stuff, then you make you make magic happen on a daily basis because everybody's doing something, a side effect of it.

You are collecting and you are just mixing and matching and you create a masterpiece. Then you are not even asking isn't it, it just happens. You just become a choreo of those various things that other people would've done. Anyway.

[01:21:49] CK: I mean, if you think about it, that's the, the how movement got started. Yes.

Right? The declaration of independence. Hmm that's that's that's that's an [01:22:00] ask. That's like declaring. Yes. Life Liberty and pursue a happiness who wants that, you know, join us. Boom, right there. I have a dream. It's a ask it's, it's a, it is a beautiful ask. Nonetheless, you know, that this is the vision of my children and, and, and, you know, black family, white family coming together and sharing their meal.

It's a beautiful ask. It's a vision that's very enrolling.

[01:22:23] Rajesh: Yeah. And the, just to double click on the life, Liberty and pursuit of happiness. So again, there is a, the last one is a double edge sword, the pursuit of happiness. So if the people think they're to pursue happiness, then that's where the marketers will hijack their mind because then they'll show.

This vacuum cleaner. If you don't have it, you should be unhappy because it's dark and dingy and everything. Once you have it. Well, wow. There is light everywhere and your cow is clean. No, you don't need anything. So, but see the moment you believe it now, until you have that [01:23:00] vacuum cleaner, you are unhappy.

That's where we had to be. So careful when you say pursuit of happiness is you don't need to pursue anything. That's why, how the minimalists happy. You don't have anything. In fact, I was listening to an interview of one minimalist where it was, he carries everything in a backpack and person was like, is there anybody who is more minimalist than you?

He said, yeah, there is. I said, how is it even possible? He said, this person like Rick from Australia, he goes from country to another country without anything. He said he won't carry clothes. No, he goes there and he goes to a thrift store and he buys the clothes. And when he is leaving the country, he gives back it to the store and then asks them to give it to charity, something.

So there is people and he is, is he happy? Yes. Because it's nothing to maintain zero. Yeah. So when the moment [01:24:00] people see, you know, people always copy what is convenient for them, isn't it? When you give advice, uh, like for example, Steve jobs rather than copying is attention to detail and his innovativeness they'll copy.

He are screaming and all those things, someone slides up his life, you buy screaming and being tough on your employees. Nothing will happen unless you also have everything. Either you copy as a whole and not copy. That's easy to copy, easy to implement. Mm-hmm , mm-hmm so pursuit of happiness life and good.

But you can always question and say, I'm already happy. Yeah.

[01:24:39] CK: To, to, to that point. Um, personally, this is my personal opinion, and this may be, uh, hearsay to the hardcore rash, uh, uh, nationalist of a, you know, declaration of independence. I think the word pursued of happiness imply that you don't have it, hence why you need to pursue it.[01:25:00]

Right? So, so I, for me, the more accurate terms will be an expression of your joy. Mm. Because, because you already have it, as you say, right, it's intrinsic. You already have it. How do you make your life an expression of your joy? So life, Liberty, and an expression of your joy to me is more accurately described versus a pursuit of

[01:25:22] Rajesh: happiness.

I'm a hundred percent with you. In fact, if you see life, Liberty and pursuit of happiness says you should have a bias for action. That means you act to get that happiness. But if you change the bias to contribution. Things go very different. You have, you can have a bias for action, or you can have a bias for contribution.

The way you look at life is very different. When you have a bias for action, rather than when you have a bias for contribution, like you said, life, Liberty, and expression of joy. You can say life, Liberty, and spreading of joy because I have so much in, I wanna spread joy. [01:26:00] Imagine every single person in this country says my goal is to spread joy.

Not every single person, 10% of the own. 1% of the problem is so newspapers will have no business because they're always spreading fear and uncertainty and like out of purpose, but they'll not know what to do.

[01:26:20] CK: Um, man, I can go on forever. Do you have a little bit more time to go a little longer? Is that correct?

I have all the time in the work. Awesome. Thank you so much. So let's, let's focus. Bring back to the, um, how you build relationships online or, or offline really. You make your content, that's part of your, um, ritual. That's what you do. And you are a teacher at heart. I could tell. Right? You can't help it.

You're teaching all the time. Right. Even this conversation, you're teaching me a lot. So thank you. So talk about relationships and I'm asking this question, you know, selfishly for me, cuz I don't actively [01:27:00] do outreach so when I hear Esri says 10 and 90, I'm like what? You know, I don't, I don't do that. And then I'm doing this as, as my way of cultivating relationship with people that I admire.

So how do you go about building relationships in a very strategic, in a very, uh, but also organic way.

[01:27:22] Rajesh: So now that we know, he says very well, I'll tell you something. If you don't do outreach organically, the world is suffering. I tell you, I'm not using the words, just like will Lilly, right? The reason is somebody as thoughtful as you is waiting for somebody to be transformed because you are not comfortable reaching out, robbing people of opportunity.

And I know it's being recorded, so I'm, I'm okay to be, have this in record mm-hmm . But what happens if every single and thousand of them chose this, you know, I'm not comfortable outreach, almost every [01:28:00] episode on your podcast is amazing because you are very thoughtful, curious person. So somebody like you, whether you're comfortable, I'm not should market.

Why? Because it'ss a gift to the world. So you may not be comfortable then hire a marketer who gets, because if you don't get amazing stuff marketed, there's, they're busy with Netflix and, uh, see whatever two channel they're watching. They need interruption in a good way. Interruption is good. If it is good, high value, relevant and timely content.

So almost it doesn't matter what you feel or what you care. If you think it's good, the content you owe it to yourself in the world that you go get it out, whatever it takes, who cares, what many people think this CK used to be good now is all, all over the place he is doing this everything. But really, if it was not good, you should not market it's crime.

But if it is good [01:29:00] and not marketing, it's also a crime, isn't it. It's a different kind of crime. Isn't it? It, somebody needs this right now, but you know what? See, I'm not comfortable marketing. That's not fair. Isn't it? Okay. So that's something to think about. Point

[01:29:18] CK: taken

[01:29:19] Rajesh: point taken. It's important that the right content reaches the right people.

And you know, that people need to li see it so many times before they say, ah, I'm going to watch seeks podcast. It's not like murder, mystery or something. Oh, what happened? Who is the killer? I don't know. it requires attention. It requires work. So the transformation is slower. That means we have to work harder to make these people just pay attention.

And then they come in once and again, they're interrupted by the next like gray man or something. And they're out now we have to bring them back. So one thing is, [01:30:00] so there's something to think about that whether you are comfortable or uncomfortable, it really doesn't matter who doesn't matter. This, the world is the world going to be a better place.

If this content reaches different people, you like,

[01:30:15] CK: yes. So point taken, I will re I receive the coaching. Thank you for that. What do you do to actively do it? Do you think, find any workout in progress? Hold on one second. My echo is talking to me, echo stuff. I know she agrees with you. So, um, what do you do in terms of managing relationships?

Outreach? Yeah. Um, especially giving all your teachings, all your books, everything

[01:30:45] Rajesh: that you do. Yeah. Typically I have a few principles in mind, so I always think, uh, if the, if there is a right kind of help, I always think I should give them the right kind of help either through me or somebody that I [01:31:00] know mm-hmm , but in a mutually beneficial fashion, when it comes to me, I don't care about mutual, beneficial.

I care about whether it's benefiting them. If I'm introducing someone I'm always caring about mutual benefit. Why? Because they don't know each other and it should not be an imbalance in relationship. Isn't it. So I always think. So my main, my life, I kept it very simple. I only have three kinds of relationships, long term, very long term and lifetime.

So always before the lifetime relationships. Why? Because that's a hack for myself. When I have a lifetime relationship, I don't have to worry about ups and downs. I don't have to test them. I don't to see, oh, they're a lifetime relationship. Should I de promote them to the long, very long term? No. It's. Once somebody is in your heart, you don't have to worry about things.

Mm-hmm second. I'm a low maintenance relationship person. That means I always tell people that with you, with me, you don't have to worry about keeping in touch. [01:32:00] It's not based on frequency. So let's say you disappear for five years and start call me on five years later, the length and the strength and depth of the relationship be exactly the same.

And you think you can do it. You ask my friends. They'll call me if I certain it'll be the same, because I choose it to be like that. Mm. Because if it is a high maintenance, now they have to keep thinking, mm. I have to keep in touch with, I have to keep, why have the burden, just leave them, give them the freedom, because it's not based on the frequency.

Second. I don't remember their birthdays anniversary or anything always remember, what does this person care about? And where is this person going? If I remember only those two things, I'm always looking for opportunities for them in the way I can care about what they're caring about. And I can add some value in the, in where they're going and what they're becoming.

So it becomes easy for me. So, and I don't expect [01:33:00] anything back by God's grace. I don't need anything. If something comes, like treat it as a gift, but if something doesn't come, I was not expecting anyway. So every day it'll be full of surprises for me, positive surprise somebody. Send me something, some it's all more than what I need.

So, uh, when you have that, no expectation kind of relationship half, the problem is solved because there's no need to keep score. Isn't it?

[01:33:26] CK: I love that that's abundance mindset right there, right? Because the only reason why one would keep score is there's a scarcity mindset, right? What's mine, what's yours.

Let's make sure that da da it's equal fair, equitable, this and that. But when you are coming from an abundance mindset, then you don't, you don't track score. However, so I have a loving challenge in your way. The strength of a relationship, my perspective is based on how much you invest into it. So therefore yes, there could be a [01:34:00] five year break with no deterioration, right?

No, no, no decay of the value. However, to. Elevate right. The, the depth of the relationship one needs to invest into it. Right? It's an account that both of you, you know, invest into it. So I'm curious to know your perspective around the, not, maybe not a regular frequency, but frequency in investment.

Nonetheless. What do you, what do you say to that?

[01:34:27] Rajesh: Yes, a very good point. Say, I always think the investment is, uh, is if it is based on input, then it's a different matter if the based on outcome. So remember I said, you need to pro ability to give meaningful gifts at scale at a very low incremental cost to you.

Mm-hmm my cost of investment. I can design it to be very small, as long as the value of that investment outcome to the other person, a gift to the other person is very high Uhhuh. So, so is anything at scale? It's very easy. [01:35:00] It's like, for example, if I want to give away somebody, my course. what did it really cost me?

Think about it. Incremental cost is one click mm-hmm , but if the course is really worth thousands of dollars, mm-hmm , then it's valuable to the other person mm-hmm . So by having tools of value scaling mm-hmm , you can change the metric to your advantage. So basically if you know exactly how to create, to connect two people, that both will thank me for that later, that thoughtfulness is, is another tool to value scaling.

Like last year I introduced, uh, I made about four and 50 introductions previous year to that I made 700 introductions. Wow. Did it, did it take time? Yes. The first year when I heard this concept from, uh, Tim Sanders, it was in 2003 mm-hmm that you, you can generate value by making valuable introductions.

Mm-hmm I asked him how many introductions do you make? [01:36:00] Because they said, why do you ask? He said, no, I just settling in this country. I, I have 25 people. They all know each other. So what should I do? They said, they laughed me said, usually start wherever you are. Uh, I don't know whether you like this answer, but I make a good trended introductions a year.

I said, really? That's almost one a day. He said, I told you, you might not like the answer, but it's what it is. So I said, Hmm. What about other people who are very good in building relationships? Yeah, they may make more, but I'm only at 300. So I just came back thinking what is hill to climb? I am making one introduction a year.

This was in making 300 introductions a year. That was in 2003. It took me about, uh, 11 years to reach the 300 number mm-hmm so per year. But once he's there. You just become, it's a part of your life. Like when I meet this, somebody new always think, Hmm. Who else should CK meet? What kind of people [01:37:00] should seek a interview?

Who in my network will give so much value to their readers? You didn't ask me for introductions, but it's my default setting. How can I amplify what CK is doing? Because that's the way I look at life and it becomes easy.

[01:37:14] CK: Mm. Do you use it? So tactically speaking, do you use like a CRM or things like that or just in your, your memory?

[01:37:21] Rajesh: Well, I never, never used a CRM, no plan to use a CRM.

[01:37:25] CK: Wow. Amazing, amazing. That's awesome.

[01:37:28] Rajesh: Um, because I don't need anything more. I don't need their birthdays anniversary. Very rarely. Anybody will get a call from their birthday. Uh, but if there is something of value they'll hear from me and the way I look at things is whenever I make a phone.

Am I making it for me or for them mm-hmm nine out of 10 phone calls have to be for the other person. Only one out of 10 should be for me, if the ratio changes, then something is wrong. I'm not doing something, right.

[01:37:56] CK: Yeah. Your, your, your identity is a value. Creator is [01:38:00] very strong. So your, you know, you want to give value at all times.

That's a beautiful thing. I, I love it. Um, okay. So on your LinkedIn profile, you wrote I'm a work in progress, meaning I guarantee my work by lead the progress to God. So let's talk about God a little bit, if you don't mind.

[01:38:18] Rajesh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically I'm always worried about my ego taking over. So I never want to think that I've done something, this and that and everything, but in my heart of heart, I always believe that I'm a work in progress because in this interview just now.

You asked me a few questions that nobody has ever asked. I already made a note to come back to this section and then I made a note of what times it is. And then I go back and not only I write down better answers. I also discuss with my mentors, what could I have done here better? Because it's whenever there's a tool of leverage and to treat it with care [01:39:00] because it's multiplier effect.

Isn't it. If I do a good job when there's multiplier effected multiple in value. So there's thoughtful questions that you asked. I think I give a reasonably good answer, but it's not the best because I can go back and revisit some of them and I have to do it because otherwise I'm not doing justice to myself.

Isn't it. That's why I always say work in progress. And I can, uh, at this point in time, this was the best answer I could give. No. If I thought through, I could give a better answer. So I always say, this is what it is. And the progress is left to God is because any progress we make to think that we alone, we are making that progress will be faulty thinking because so many things have to come right for this, the system that we're using extreme wear should be working, right?

The camera should be working, right? Somebody should, the internet should not be, somebody should be calling so many things have to happen. And if you both think [01:40:00] we both made it happen, that's a fallacy. So I always think there is God or whatever, if they don't, people believe don't believe in God, there is something out there, whatever it is.

It's higher power that is make, let's blessed this and said, let this be a good conversation. So I always think, thank thank you for that opportunity. So that gives me with the ego ego is checked and

[01:40:23] CK: I love it. I mean, in your explanation, it just shows me the, you know, your commitment to the effort. Yes, you're gonna make your effort, your honest effort.

And then you also are not attached to the outcome, to the progress. Yes. To the thing, because you know that you have put forth your best effort and that's the only, that's, that's the only thing we could do. We can't control other people. We can't control the greater universe. We can't control the greater society.

You know, the only thing we have controls our attention are also our effort. [01:41:00]

[01:41:00] Rajesh: Exactly. So you talked before word, everything is a conversation. There are two things that will, that'll make a big difference in anybody's life, the kind of projects take and the kind of conversations they engage. So look at one of both of them in one, one minute, the kind of projects decides and determines the kind of conversations we will have.

If you work on a big project that is solving something bigger than what it is like a mental health or anything. automatically. There'll be more people will come to support. There are more people will say yes, more better conversations. And if you think about conversation, there are only two kinds. One is with external conversations.

Second is internal conversations. If you look at external conversations, there are only three kinds. So it's basically, oh no. In, in the, in the temporal way, there is about past present and future. There can't be anything else. You can't talk about any other temporal space other than past present and future mm-hmm.

And if you do [01:42:00] the reframe properly about the past, you can have regrets or you can take insights and use the power about the present. You can talk about the, the, the gratitude of, of this I'm here. Whatever got me here. I'm grateful for it. And then I'll do something. And about the future, you can have fear uncertainty, or you can have reimagination.

this is the future. Everybody's imagining, what am I imagining? So if you control these two on the external, it's even easy. If you control who you are, having conversations with the right people will guide the conversation. Right? Anyway, mm-hmm internally is where the problem is. If nobody, the monkey mind will take over and always think about, he should not have done this.

And somebody says that, I said, how important is this? He, you are talking about no, not very important. Then why is he taking over your life? The person is not even important is why do you give so much attention? People forget that if the person is not important in [01:43:00] their life, why do they give you so much importance to what he or she said makes no sense.

But if they, you don't check it, then it's a problem. So I always think every thought is a paying guest. So that means if a thought enters my mind, it has to pay me something. Cause I'm giving them real estate space. Mm. If the paying comes and starts demanding from the landlord, then it's not good. Mm good.

So I say, oh, am paying this thought. I send them an eviction notice go away because I'm not paying for anything. Thoughts have to pay me. So people, uh, always say, you know, you should, uh, not write anything on the internet that you don't want to. It has to be permanently captured. I said, if you don't even think about bad things, then there's nothing to write.

You calculated the thought level. You don't wish back for anyone. Then there's nothing to write something you forget, but then you can write whatever you want, because you are sure that the intent is [01:44:00] pure. Then what is their worry about?

[01:44:03] CK: Yeah. So segue, and this would be probably the last question or the last couple of questions.

Um, as a technologist, as a teacher, as an author, as a creator, What platforms excite you the most about reaching the kind of people who will resonate with you?

[01:44:25] Rajesh: See, there are two answers to that question. One is that I'm always about curated anything curated. I always like, because, um, uh, say for example, if I take, uh, um, what would be a good example, like for example, Harvard business review, for example, mm-hmm so for those kinds of project, I know that everything is curated.

There is a number of people have vetted it and everything. When I read something, I don't have worry about the source, uh, on, I don't have to worry about that [01:45:00] is will, will this be of value to me? So for example, take your own podcast after listen to four or five of. I put them in the list. Now I know that anytime I want to hear, I just click one.

I don't care who you are talking to. I know that there is value there. So like for a street knowledge project. So I know that it'll always be good. It doesn't matter who we, so I remember all about curation. So wherever there is created thing, like for, in the newsletters, there is a person called channel. I don't know whether you've heard of her tiny something.

So I, I look forward to that newsletter because it's a very short newsletter, but she has something called whatever she found. Interesting. So I say, oh, this discovery platform. So the newsletter, I look at it. What did general find? Interesting. So I always look and say, it's, it's my hack to gain capacity at scale, without having to spend this so much [01:46:00] of incremental cost.

[01:46:03] CK: well, but that, that, wasn't quite the question that I ask. Right. I ask not so much from the consuming aspect of it. Oh yeah. From the creation aspect, from the creation aspect there, which platform do you use as a way to reach the kind of people who were more likely to resonate with you

[01:46:18] Rajesh: see, I'm always, uh, see, there is an implication that I use a platform of, which is online to reach people.

Mm-hmm, , I'm very big on, you know, cause I'm very old school. So some of the things that, you know, this, you, you saw the, I don't know whether you saw this thing, the greeting card , it's still very manual. So, and everything that there are so many books that are manual. Like this was the first think book that I created.

And if you see, I use it as a notebook, but if you open it. There is stuff that will make people think. Mm mm. So it's all written. So I'm always be believing that [01:47:00] people somehow forgotten the offline value, but I always like offline more than online because there is some, uh, it's very difficult to multitask with the book.

Mm. What do you do? I mean, you cannot run around, but online it's easy to somebody else is one click away from grabbing attention. Mm-hmm . So I use all the online tools, all the LinkedIn and Twitter and all those things to test ideas. But sooner than later, I want something in physical where there is people, serious stuff has to be, it has to have some physical aspect to it.

Mm mm mm. I know it's really, really work school, but they have to say it.

[01:47:41] CK: No, no, it's not old school at all. I, I love it. You know, author who loves books, you know? Yes, of course. , that's obvious,

[01:47:50] Rajesh: you know, there are so many opportunities that are like, I have a site called napkin sites, which is inside that can fit on a paper napkin at some point there'll be actual physical [01:48:00] napkins that have pattern interrupts.

Mm. So they'll be there because think about it. There are pepper napkins everywhere. There are probably a billion being used every day. Mm. And then there is quite paper napkin, ready to be making a change in somebody's life. And we lost a isn't it?

[01:48:18] CK: Yeah. Napkins is a as a knowledge transfer medium. I love it.


[01:48:23] Rajesh: We can change. Somebody's thinking one paper napkin at a time like that. Mm

[01:48:28] CK: Rajesh. Um, I so appreciate Esri introduced us. . Yes. Uh, I'm very inspired by just your passion for life, your equanimity, your ability to maintain a growth mindset, whatever life throws your way Parkinson's or not. Um, I appreciate your creative mind.

Yeah. How much, you know, actively creation that you do every day, 18 books, and you're still going strong. This is not the end of [01:49:00] AJE. This is only the beginning. I just love it. Thank you so much for sharing your story, your wisdom, your mental models, and, and to be able to dance in this conversation with me,

[01:49:14] Rajesh: I so much enjoyed this conversation.

That I'll be the first person to watch rewatch this, and then say we're all like an improve and then come back stronger. But you gave me the gift of a few questions. I can't ask for anything more and so much, so much of gratitude goes to cause we are there in the same class. We will not have met because we both are introverts.

That's our problem. so, uh, that, that not change because as we said, I know you both will not meet on your own. Here is the introduction like that.

[01:49:44] CK: There you go. I love it. Well with that set, have a great rest of the day guys. And then, well, we're be in touch soon

Rajesh SettyProfile Photo

Rajesh Setty

Entrepreneur, Author and Teacher

Rajesh Setty is often referred to as Silicon Valley's secret "spark plug" for startups, scale-ups (and shake-ups)

Being a Polymath, Rajesh is constantly in the middle of running experiments across a variety of seemingly unrelated areas of interest, but with the common goal of how to create a better world through the projects, he incubates as one of the founders or participates in some meaningful capacity to help the founders.

Together, the startups that Rajesh has co-founded are valued at $150+ million, and the ones where he serves as a mentor are valued at $700+ million. Finally, he has also taught 2000+ entrepreneurs as part of Founder Institute & beyond.

His latest startups are Audvisor and MentorCloud.

His latest books are "Six Foot World" and "Smart, but Stuck."

His latest courses are "The Right Hustle" and "Flourish by Design."

His latest products are the #InsideFirst series of books and Thoughtful Cards.