May 17, 2023

166 Vladimir Stojakovic: Emotional Release at Light Speed With Spiritual Technologies

My next guest, Vladimir Stojakovic, is a truly exceptional guest A seasoned practitioner of Spiritual Technology, he's reached the pinnacle as a "Trainer of Trainers" under Zivorad Mihajlovic Slavinski. An author of three influential books, Vladimir has delved deep into the realms of self-improvement, emotional healing, and spiritual enlightenment.

His profound knowledge has attracted the likes of Tony Robbins, and he's since worked with countless individuals worldwide, both professionals and those on their personal growth journey. His revolutionary "Satori Protocol" empowers people to experience and repeat spiritual enlightenment independently, an unprecedented advancement in spiritual development. Now based in Australia, he continues to share his wisdom through online seminars. Please join me in welcoming Vladimir Stojakovic.


We talked about:

  • (2:22) Understanding Spiritual Technologies: A departure from traditional therapies
  • (12:22) Spiritual Technologies vs. Psychoanalysis: The key distinctions
  • (17:33) The Role of Consciousness in Spiritual Technologies: An essential perspective
  • (22:37) The Ultimate Goal: Liberation through Spirituality
  • (39:15) The Complementary Nature of Vipassanna and Spiritual Technologies
  • (40:57) The Advantage of Inner Familiarity: Why it facilitates work with Spiritual Technologies
  • (44:55) Breaking Free: Why stepping out of your comfort zone fuels spiritual progress
  • (49:09) Seeking Growth: How to identify new spiritual opportunities
  • (66:55) The Unconventional Benefit: How content consumption can spur spiritual development
  • (70:08) The Importance of Uncovering for Spiritual Advancement
  • (71:00) The Best Approach: Combining methods and the art of listening
  • (76:19) Vladimir's Journey: The capabilities gained through 30,000 spiritual processes
  • (84:00) The Enlightenment Experience: What happens when you reach it?
  • (85:24) The Phases of Enlightenment: A comprehensive overview
  • (94:13) Balancing Enlightenment and Skills of Release: Why both are essential for spiritual growth
  • (95:27) Mountain Climbing Metaphor: CK's perspective on enlightenment and psychedelics
  • (98:40) Choosing the Right Path: How to find the method that's best for you
  • (101:59) Navigating the Dark Night of the Soul: Spiritual Technologies' approach
  • (106:40) The Latest Innovations: Introducing the Integra Protocol and the Satori Protocol
  • (116:14) Applying Spiritual Technologies: Innovative solutions to objective problems
  • (118:14) Resolving Subjective Problems: Why don't people take action post-resolution?




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[00:00:00] CK: my guest today has the highest distinction of trainer of trainers in spiritual technology. Founded by Slosky, he has had over 30 years of experience helping people with their spiritual development.

He's also the author of Spiritual Technology, A Journey into Oneself, Integra Protocol, how to Integrate Internal Conflicts and Stor Protocol, how to Resolve emotional Problems and Achieve Spiritual Enlightenment. Welcome to Noble Warrior Vladimir, Stojakovic

[00:00:32] Vladimir: thank you CK for inviting me. I'm happy to be here.

[00:00:35] CK: Amazing. So, Vladimir, I really wanted to talk to you because I myself, uh, came from the scientific background and I've been looking for methods to effectively and efficiently, um, make progress to my own personal and spiritual development. And I'm very fortunate that my [00:01:00] teacher sat Raja introduced me to, uh, Zara's work.

And from that I met you. . So I wanna ask you a first question. Start off with, with this, cuz for a lot of people, this is a concept they don't quite know yet. What is the difference between therapy and spiritual technology? Well,

[00:01:24] Vladimir: there, there is an overlap, obviously. Mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . And there are differences.

So with, uh, spiritual technology, we focus on releasing emotional problems. We don't focus on, uh, curing, uh, mental illness and, uh, psychological disorders. Wow. And, everybody has, uh, emotional problems. Uh, let's say that according to, uh, let's say Australia, [00:02:00] uh, where I live, uh, every fifth person has some, uh, mental, uh, problems or, or some, uh, psychological disorder.

Uh, while, uh, everybody else has, uh, emotional problems. So you can say that, uh, spiritual technology is for everyone because you cannot really, uh, Uh, grow up. You cannot really develop without creating, uh, uh, emotional problems. It's part of personality development. So, uh, what we do, we focus on emotional problems.

Uh, we, we don't focus on, uh, mental issues and personality disorders and, uh, the, the approach that we have is a little bit different. Okay, so I think you, there are over, [00:03:00] uh, 500 registered, official registered therapies and they all have different approaches. Uh, our approach is to make conscious and release suppressed thoughts and emotions.

Uh, I would say that, uh, uh, therapies, uh, official therapies, uh, they work on moving the furniture around, so to speak. Uh, there is some internal world and what they want to do, they want to arrange it in a better way. What we want to do, we want to completely clear, release problematic thoughts and emotions.

So our main principle. Working principle is spiritual, uh, and it is making the unconscious conscious. So, uh, in our methods, [00:04:00] what we do, uh, we use certain triggers. Those triggers will activate reactions. What reacts is suppress thoughts and emotions. And then we feel those reactions. We verbalize them. And through that verbalization, we make them conscious.

And by making them conscious, we release them. Okay? We, uh, you can say that the problems arrive, uh, uh, because we resist. Let's say something is happening to me, uh, and I feel some negative emotions. I have negative thoughts. And instead of just letting these, uh, negative thoughts and emotions manifest and, uh, go away, uh, I block blocked him.

I don't want to feel, feel them. I block them. I stop them. And because I do [00:05:00] that, because I resist, they persist. And that's how we go through, uh, our lives, uh, continuously resisting negative thoughts and emotions. And by continuously resisting, we keep, uh, building them up. And, uh, they go into the unconscious.

Uh, they, uh, stay, uh, stored in our unconscious. Uh, the amount of them rises and it's very reactive. So when something happens, when there is a trigger, uh, these suppress thoughts and emotions, they react and they, uh, create negative states and reactions in our processes. We do it the other way around. What does that mean?

It means we focus on a trigger. We allow, we, uh, uh, intentionally, deliberately, uh, activate the negative reaction, but this time we are fully conscious. Uh, we don't [00:06:00] resist it. We feel it as completely as possible, and then we find the words to express it. And that's the act of making the unconscious conscience.

Once we don't resist it, feel it and find the right words, uh, we release this suppressed energy. And you could say that, uh, official therapies are more an approach. Spiritual technology is procedural. So we have procedural techniques that we, uh, apply and that way I think, uh, we release, uh, emotional problems faster.

So that, that would be one difference, uh, between, uh, official therapy and, [00:07:00] uh, uh, spiritual technology. We are procedural and our, uh, main principle is, uh, making the unconscious conscious and releasing it that way.

[00:07:13] CK: Amazing. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. One of the thing I really appreciate about this here, here as a personal practice, doing the beginning of my personal practice and exploration, um, I went down the path of using rationality to, as you said, rearrange the furniture, trying to understand the source of my content and, and or, and then also treating them as something to conquer.

And for me that was a counterproductive experience because as much as I, uh, as we say, what we resist, persist, right? So the more I try to conquer them exactly, the stronger they [00:08:00] get. So, and I also found that it was not that useful for me personally to try to understand why, why, why, why, why these content arise.

And through the work of, um, Zivorad, uh, I just started to process them. Like, it doesn't matter why they come up, as long as I basically use the, uh, set of tools to process them. It was much more effective and efficient to, um, disappear these, uh, quote unquote subjective problems.

[00:08:36] Vladimir: Yeah. So let me comment on that.

Two keywords, uh, here that you mentioned. These, trying to understand them to find the cause by analysis, by, uh, intention, by focus. That's one thing. Understanding the cause. And the other thing would be conquering them. Uh, the both approaches are inefficient. Okay? So you can think about the problem, [00:09:00] uh, as an onion being very layered.

A problem is very layered. Okay? Let's say something happened when you were five years old. Uh, and that was the first, that was the beginning of a. Okay, let's say you had a negative experience, uh, and you came up with some decision, unconscious decision, unconscious belief, which created the problem at the moment.

For example, we can use an example. Uh, maybe I was, uh, in the, uh, school as a, as a child, and maybe I was deciding a poem in front of the class, and maybe I got confused. Uh, pe uh, the other children, uh, were laughing at me. I felt humiliated and I, uh, came up with a decision that, uh, uh, standing out leads to humiliation, standing out leads to humiliation.

So we, these decisions [00:10:00] believes, uh, they are extremely important. That's how we form problems. That's how we form our personality. And based on that, we perceive the world, we perceive ourselves and we behave okay. And, uh,

beliefs and, and decisions are our, our truths about the world, our truths about, uh, aspects of life. And yes, we want to behave, uh, in accordance to our truths, uh, that has roots in, uh, survival. . Okay. So, uh, uh, uh, some, some scientists say, uh, evolutionary psychologists that our species survived because we have this ability to recognize patterns, so mm-hmm.

uh, apply to our predecessor. That would mean something like when you hear a lion run the other way, okay? That's a pattern, [00:11:00] okay? That leads to survival and all patterns that we have, uh, in their, uh, uh, uh, uh, route, they have survival. So, when I come up with a, with a pattern, with a decision, with a belief, standing out leads to humiliation.

That's connected to survival, at least to the survival of my ego, okay? And I want to live in accordance with that truth. From now on, basically, I come up with that decision to prevent the same outcome in the future, to avoid being humiliated in the future. And as I go to life, as I, uh, find myself in situations where I can be humiliated, uh, or there is a possibility of me entering that situation, I keep thinking, I keep adding thoughts and emotions to that initial route, to that initial decision.

And what started as a problem, [00:12:00] which was probably single layer or very simple, it builds over. And then 20 years later, uh, you have a complicated structure. Mm-hmm. and the cause is deep. It's covered by many layers. Mm-hmm. . Okay. And that's why it is not really possible. It could be possible after hours and hours and hours and hours of, of, uh, of therapy to actually, uh, become aware of that cause of that in, uh, uh, initial, uh, decision and to get some relief.

Okay. But as you think and analyze, as you think and analyze, you actually get, you actually add more, charge you. That's right. You have more thoughts, you have more, you actually increase the pro it's counterproductive instead. That's right. We use a procedure. We used the, the shortest, uh, route to the cause.[00:13:00]

Okay. We trigger the problem. We find the first layer, make it conscious that uncovers the next layer, make it conscious that uncovers the next layer. And that's how we go following the shortest truth, uh, shortest truth to the root cause. And once we, uh, make that conscious, that's how you resolve the problem.

So analyzing is hard, uh, because the main cause is covered by layers of unconscious material. Yeah, and it's probably a little bit, uh, counterproductive. Another thing that you mentioned is conquering, like the willpower and everything, but you already actually answer to that as well. The more you resist, uh, uh, the more it persists, resisting means adding more.

So let's say I don't want to feel weak. Okay? So whenever I have any thought or emotion that I associate with feeling, feeling weak, I say no, [00:14:00] and I suppress it. And what does that mean? I add to the pile, the pile being the problem. And as I'm trying to conquer it, the pile grows, grows, grows. Because every time a to that comes up, which I label as, ah-ha, that's weakness, edit to the pile, another emotion that's weakness too.

Edit to the pile. So that pile becomes bigger and bigger. Uh, yeah. So analyzing doesn't help much. It probably adds more to the problem. And, uh, it's hard. Okay? It's hard to navigate the internal world, which is very layer, which is very complex, very full of conflict, okay? And conquering is probably, uh, even worse because it simply means, uh, resist.

And by resisting means when a thought comes up that you don't, don't. You edit to the pile and [00:15:00] increase the problem. And we do it the other way around, don't resist. Make it conscious release.

[00:15:06] CK: So one of the things that for me was a profound shift in the way I relate to my content is this, cause there's good, bad, you know, I like this, I don't like this.

And, and, uh, I will come up with a lot of different strategies, a lot of techniques as a way to strengthen myself or weaken the opponent or the whatever it is I'm trying to avoid. And inevitably I make that opponent or that thought that polarity stronger again, what I resist, persist, right? And, um, but I also hear language that people use in personal developments, virtual development realms of, you know, um, what they say, fuck the problem.

Right? That's a very strong language. And again, when, when operating [00:16:00] from that paradigm, then you're now treating that as a, as a, as an enemy. And, and inevitably you also make that stronger. So what I do like is, um, this particular approach treat problems as. . It's not good or bad, it just is, right? You have a thought, you have a feelings and emotions, you have body sensations, you have a situations, it's just neutral because it's based on context that's good or bad.

If you zoom all the way out, there's then, then there is, everything is neutral. So I really like that approach of just, hey, you have this content and you know, you face it in with neutrality.

[00:16:44] Vladimir: Well, we have the luxury of that approach. And I say the luxury. Uh, and that brings us back to your first question.

What is the difference between therapy and this? Uh, that's another difference. Okay. Therapy is [00:17:00] scientific based in therapy. There is no consciousness. A consciousness is like, uh, something that exists, but they don't know where it's coming from. Is it the re the result of the chemical processes in the brain?

Uh, they don't, uh, regard consciousness as an entity. So you could say that the whole philosophy, uh, approach has no foundation if you don't treat consciousness as something that is there that is not just a part of brain activity. Okay. Which is, If I am not this consciousness that I'm something else, like a good person or bad person, which means I need to treat my content as something, okay?

Uh, [00:18:00] ultimately I am some of that content in our approach. We are spiritual technology. We know that there is consciousness which is separated from the brain and the body, and we don't just know that because we believe it. We know that because we have techniques that enable us to experience it. And that gives us the luxury of treating the content as just content.

Okay? Uh, it doesn't really matter. It doesn't really matter whether the content is good or bad, uh, because you are not it. If the content is bad, angry person, frustration. Yeah. You like the fact that you are not there, but if the content is good, happy person, [00:19:00] happiness, you are not that either. So, uh, that gives us a very efficient approach, which means you don't evaluate anything that comes up, you just.

And even more importantly, you don't evaluate yourself based on your content. Okay. So, uh, that is something else that differentiates us from, uh, the, the other techniques, oh, sorry. Uh, the other, uh, uh, from official therapy because they do want to get you in a better state, which means with better content, with better identities.

But it is impossible to have good content without a bad content. We live in a bipolar world. You cannot just, happiness means something only in relation to unhappiness. Freedom that's right. Means something [00:20:00] only in relation to its opposite. Okay. That's right. And, uh, that gives us, uh, a superior approach. We have the whole picture.

Okay. While it's very difficult to, uh, create, uh, operational approaches if you're lacking foundation or if you don't have the whole picture. Okay. While here on the other side, we have whole picture. We know that we are consciousness, which is beyond polarities, which is neither good nor bad, which creates content.

and that's what we want to, to, uh, uh, to achieve, uh, to get rid of the created unconscious structure and to remain as clear as

[00:20:53] CK: possible. So how is this different than, I want to go back to that [00:21:00] question, you know, um, how is this different than u h Cuz you, in your book actually really like the way you, you, you delineated.

Well, this is not new age thinking either. So say a little bit more about how is this spiritual technology different than new age approach?


[00:21:18] Vladimir: that would probably require to define new age, which is extremely difficult. Okay. It's a cabbage of all sorts of beliefs. Uh, uh, and the only condition is that those beliefs are not official religion and they are not science. Okay. And they're, that's, I don't know how else to define New Age. Okay. But I can say something else.

Spirituality exists for a very long time. Very long time. I think the oldest written records, [00:22:00] uh, if, if I remember correctly, are 8,000 years old. So if you look into yoga tradition, or if you're looking to dow. I think, uh, the oldest, uh, uh, uh, uh, kept records are about 8,000 years old. So spirituality existed much, much before even science, let alone a new age, what, uh, we want to achieve.

And spirituality is what they call enlightenment, which is not really a great word. We want to achieve liberation. We want to achieve, uh, we want to, uh, uh, release all this content that we accumulated over our life or lives if you want. So that's the goal. Okay? And another goal is releasing these emotional problems.

But that's basically the same thing [00:23:00] because what prevents us from being pure consciousness is these building blocks of emotional problems. That's what we want. Uh, uh, liberation. On the other hand, you have new age with different goals, okay? And, uh, uh, very often or no, 99% of time, those goals are not, uh, spiritual liberation.

And if they are not spiritual liberation, they are not spirituality. Uh, you can think about Zen. That's, for me, that's probably the pure. Spiritual discipline ever. Cause there's nothing there to detract from. They, they took great care not to create anything that would detract from spiritual development.

So that's very clear, that's very out of time. And I say out the time, I [00:24:00] mean timeless, okay. Mm-hmm. , because it is equally relevant today, as thousands of years ago. So the difference is, uh, we don't believe, uh, in, in new age, there's lots of crazy ideas. Uh, they are, uh, prone to believe in anything, okay?

Mm-hmm. . Uh, but in our case, we only have two goals, which are interconnected to, uh, uh, release as much, as much charge as possible, which means spiritual prog progress and to release this emotional problems. But these two are inseparable. They have the same thing, just looking from a little bit different point of view.

[00:24:44] CK: Mm-hmm. Um, actually, if you don't mind drilling to that a little bit more, cuz those two sounds the same to me. How are they different again?

[00:24:53] Vladimir: Well,

depends on the discipline you are [00:25:00] thinking about. . So if you think about Zen, if you think about zen, which is pure essence of spirituality, there is no such thing as releasing emotional problems. Okay? They just focus on, uh, uh, spiritual development. Mm-hmm. . But in our case, we actually operationally use problems.

What are problems? Problems are negative states and reactions, and they are triggered by internal and external triggers, and they can be both, uh, uh, philosophical and very trivial down to earth. Uh, problems like, I feel angry when my neighbor makes noise. Okay. That's very early problem. But if I feel anger, yeah, yeah, that's a problem.

Or when I think about the purpose of life, I feel depressed. , that sounds like a, like an abstract, uh, uh, uh, philosophical idea in both cases. Just an emotional reaction [00:26:00] and, uh, what reacted part of the ego. Okay. Uh, what prevents us from being who we are again, there, it doesn't prevent us from being who we are.

It prevents us from perceiving who we are, who we really are is always the same. It doesn't change and it doesn't need any changes, but I cannot perceive it. Instead, I perceive some, I. . So what we do, we use these, uh, methods to, uh, when a problem comes up, we release the problem and from the practical point of view, we immediately feel good.

Okay? Just 20 minutes ago before I started the process, I felt pretty bad. I do the process now and I feel good. So that's like immediate benefit. Mm-hmm. . But also what I did, I pinpointed one building block of the ego and I threw it out. [00:27:00] And now this ego is a little bit smaller than what it was before the process.

That's how it is, both spiritual and practical. So it is spiritual. Yes. Because I am removing these building blocks from the ego. But should we actually neglect the practical side? Look for me, this is big. Uh, things happen all the time. We get triggered all the time, and now we have this tool to actually release this negative state and feel good.

Like, life is how you feel. If you feel bad, life is bad. If you feel good, life is good, okay? Mm-hmm. . So this ability, this tool to actually not suffer, to not have to go through suffering and just wait for it to pass. Because as soon. One, uh, suffering. When one topic pass, if something else happens and you suffer on [00:28:00] another topic, and then you know, something else happens and you suffer on another topic, just imagine having tools that actually every time that happens, you can release.

Okay. So yes, spiritual side is big, but practical side is also big. And you cannot do that, let's say in Zen. Okay? These guys don't have, even though I endlessly appreciate zen, even though zen is one of the pillars of what I do in, in terms of, uh, some techniques that we use are built on Zen tradition, Zen is kind of included in it.

Mm-hmm. . Okay. So I have endless appreciation for it, but they don't have something that can use, that they can use and release the problem, the negative state in 15, 20 minutes. So yes. Yeah, actually, depending, depending on the point of view, it's the same thing, but mm-hmm. also, yeah, it is a bit, a little bit extra [00:29:00] plus in what we do.

[00:29:02] CK: Yeah. And actually speaking about that, um, one of the things I really appreciate about this set of tools is the efficiency and the effectiveness. I'm gonna keep saying those words because in my mind I've tried a lot of different things. . And, uh, so why don't you tell us a little bit more about how is it that different?

Uh, how are they different, you know, in terms of the spiritual technology approach versus, you know, yoga or a pasana or zen or all these other approaches? I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll see if I can paint a picture. This is how I've been explaining this to people who ask. So I've done Vipasana, I'm a big fan of a pasana.

It's a 10 day silent meditation retreat. And the main technique is to essentially watch, just be an objective observer, watch the contents bubble up, and then watch the content disappear over time. And to me it's non-specific [00:30:00] and to me it's also very slow, right? Whereas, um, the spiritual technology approach, you don't just watch non specifically, you actually drill in deeper and deeper in a very specific way.

To me, it's the difference between a flood light, right? If you imagine, you know, the light of your attention is a flood light versus a spotlight. So for me, spotlight approach to me is very efficient, very effective. And I, as an engineer, I like it that way. Anyway, very long context. How would you explain the difference between how, let's say zen or yoga or, you know, va pastan or these other, many, many different approaches to solve these subjective problem?

[00:30:44] Vladimir: Well, from one point of view, people always look for difference. What is different? What is different? As if it's either or. Mm-hmm. as if it's either or. But how about this? How about we use your example, uh, in spiritual technology, [00:31:00] we don't teach you what to before and after the process. So we don't have any dogma, we don't have any sets of beliefs.

Uh, we don't have any, uh, uh, advice, what to think, what to feel, uh, uh, feel how to behave. We are only concerned with engineering, so to speak. So here is your procedure. Do it. Okay? Mm-hmm. . Uh, so basically we don't cover anything outside of the process. So is that good or bad? Well, it's probably good in a way that it doesn't impose anything.

Mm-hmm. , but it's also kind of bad because people would like to know, okay, I did the process, what I do outside of the process, uh mm-hmm. , you know, to, to, to keep going with my, with my development continuously, not just for the duration of the process. Okay? [00:32:00] Mm-hmm. . And if you go back to your example, uh, uh, Inana, which I did and still do, as you said, you just meditate.

You just observe. Okay. Uh, things pass. They appear, they dissolve. Sometimes they appear, they stay long time. Okay? Mm-hmm. . The point of Sana is for you to realize in one moment, hey, but all of that is not me. Mm-hmm. , all of that is just content and just a gap, and then a gap appears, okay? Mm-hmm. . And then the more you can extend that gap, the more you can live in a me state, being fully aware that this is just content, you will stop feeding that content and eventually one day, maybe the whole thing just disappears.

Maybe the whole structure of the ego just falls away. That's the idea of [00:33:00] the way I understand it, okay? Mm-hmm. , but it's a very lengthy process. Mm-hmm. , it's a very lengthy process.

[00:33:08] CK: It's a two hours per day after the training. Yeah. It's two hours. I mean, for me, I'm a, I know, you know, busy professional, so I know, I know.

You know, I don't wanna do two hours a day of meditation.

[00:33:20] Vladimir: However, how about combined approach? How about combined approach? You know, how about and spiritual technology. That's what I do. It's fantastic. Okay. So with spiritual technology, look, if I'm to do two hours of. If I'm going to choose, am I going to do two hours of spiritual techn, spiritual technology, two hours?

It's an easy choice for me. Two hours of spiritual technology is much more effective than two hours of, in two hours I can do a number of processes. They last 10, 20 minutes. I pinpoint the [00:34:00] problem, I trigger charge, and I release it and I feel good. Okay? I feel I arrive into a spiritual state pretty quickly, pretty efficiently.

Okay. But even better things, even better approaches to combine both to do processes and to do with persona as well. Not necessarily two hours per day. Mm-hmm. , you don't really need that two hours per day if you combine it with spiritual technology, okay? So what that will give you is a completely different understanding of yourself.

Spirituality, it, it give, it'll give you something to do outside of spiritual technology processes. And it may even give you the ability to be in the state of witnessing more and more. Not just when you sit and meditate, but when you actually live your life. Cause it's pretty easy to be a [00:35:00] witness when you are not, not not active, but it's kind of difficult when you stand up and start walking around doing.

Okay. That would be, that would be the challenge. If you can do that, that would be something, uh, uh, really good. So, uh, the difference is inana, you observe, but you don't really dissolve big chunks. Mm-hmm. . Okay. And that's a lengthy process in spiritual technology. You briefly, quickly dissolve. Big chance. If you combine these two approaches, I guarantee it's gonna be, uh, uh, very good result in ripasana.

You get, uh, uh, more and, uh, they just compliment each other. Okay. The more you do spiritual technology, the more you recognize your real nature, the more, and then you do with, and you are aware of your real nature as opposed to passing content, as opposed to identities. They compliment [00:36:00] each other. And then during, with you recognize bits and pieces that you are going to work with, with when you do spiritual technology.

Okay. And then you can do it as you walk in the park. Okay. Why do you have to sit down? Mm. So the difference, that's the difference in, uh, spiritual of technology. We identify big things and we, uh, release them quickly, but we don't have an approach outside of the process with can help inana, we don't, uh, uh, uh, release big chunk.

but it gives us an approach that can be used in between our processes and in my, in my opinion com. So see, that's the thing with spiritual technology, it's not opposed to anything. Mm-hmm. , you can seamlessly insert it anywhere. Literally it, in yoga, in Zen, even in religion, [00:37:00] like mm-hmm. , if you are prac, practicing Christian, uh, uh, it doesn't, there's nothing here which will, uh, conflict with Christianity because we don't have any, uh, dogma.

That's right. There is no set of set of beliefs. Exactly.

[00:37:19] CK: Yeah. That's right. I mean, one of the things I, I mean, I'm a secular person and, um, I'm not part of any kind of organized religion of any sort. And to me, the way, again, I'm an engineer, so the way I look the world is to, um, functionality, right? So all of these are to me, just tools.

What kind of tools do I need to use for a particular thing? Obviously I have a hammer. Can I use hammer to, I don't know, cook some rice maybe, but probably not most optimal, right? So I just collect different tools so I can use in different situations that's, um, most appropriate. [00:38:00] And I really like, you know, spiritual technology is.

Very secular. It doesn't have an, doesn't have any agenda. Doesn't have any dogma. Yeah, exactly. And you can just put into whatever situation that and that you want. It's about mastering the process, mastering the tools so you can really

[00:38:17] Vladimir: master your, your own consciousness. I agree with you. This is an engineering approach and I, I am an IT person, you know, and these methods, they are algorithms, they're mm-hmm.

uh, uh, uh, sequences of steps that produce a result. Mm-hmm. . And if you apply these sequences, no matter who you are, no matter what your beliefs are, you will produce a result. That's like algorithm. That's like engineering. It's a tool. Yeah.

[00:38:49] CK: Yeah. So, I mean, not to belabor on the point of spiritual technologies, set of tools, rap pasana, in my mind, how I'm using it personally is, [00:39:00] um, spiritual technology is very efficient in a very effective, removing any kind of content, right?

Any kind of charges. So then I experience the non-dual state, plural as we know it, right? Mm-hmm. . So that's, to me, I like that. Now, VA pasta, I didn't really think to stack 'em together until you mentioned it, but in my mind, VA pasta is much more of a receptive state. You just, you just watch, you know, whether you're doing movie meditation Absolutely.

Singing, meditation. You just, you just. , there is no processing. You just use watch, you know, whatever comes that comes. Absolutely. That's in my mind. It's the intentional approach versus the receptive approach. Is that an accurate reflection of what you said?

[00:39:43] Vladimir: Okay. Look, as you just watch, you notice, as you just watch you notice and what you notice in Biana, you can use in spiritual technology as something [00:40:00] to be processed, okay?

As something to be processed. Plus, the more you watch in Biana, the more you become, uh, uh, aware of identities, problems, this, that, and the easier and quicker to recognize them in, in, in spiritual technology. So these two work together, perfect. Perfectly okay. Perfectly. Mm-hmm. . And you don't need two hours per day, 15 minutes per day of a persona.

15 minutes per day. Look, I have, I have so much experience with spiritual technology. I'm doing it like 30 and something years, and I processed so many people. And when I have someone who does meditation or someone who was in therapy, let's say gestalt, or uh, cognitive behavioral. people like that are much easier [00:41:00] to work with.

Why? Because they are familiar with their internal world. Mm-hmm. . Why? Because they meditate. Okay. They didn't just watch television. So attention on the o other, uh, outside. They also put attention on the inside to meditation through therapy. And they became aware of their internal work, you know, of its elements.

And those elements are the subject of processing in spiritual technology. So once we start using spiritual things just pop up because they are already pretty aware of them. Yeah. So you, you know, in spiritual technology you have so much awareness, alertness, and observing throughout the process because you start the process, you use the trigger, something pops up.

You have to be highly aware, highly alert to feel it, recognize it, make it conscious and [00:42:00] verbalize it. Okay? So these are the principles that we also use in wi Persona. And yes, so when you do this meditation, uh, be aware of the topics that come up that you can use in, in, uh, spiritual technology processes, okay?

And also be aware of identities, uh, content. because they will come up in spiritual technology processes and you will already be familiar with them. And that will make it easier to actually, uh, uh, do the process. Yeah.

[00:42:40] CK: I wanna bring a metaphor real quick, cuz um, I think it would be helpful for me to contextualize the question I want to ask you.

I, I do have a personal question I wanna ask you. So imagine you are you audience members, you are trying to, uh, discern the different hues, the different, um, [00:43:00] shades of a particular color. In the beginning, it looks kind of the same, right? Reds red or green screen, or blues, blues. But after a while, you're studying and you start to notice the nuance.

Like there is a slight difference between the two, but only after you look at it long enough, you have that facility, right? So in terms of content, um, our thoughts, feelings, demotion, body sensations, and mental images, all of these are content. The more we, um, discern the, the, the, the more we look at it, the more we have discernment, oh, this is slightly different flavor of frustration, anger, joy, or whatever the content may be.

Um, that to me is a useful process just in terms of heightening our own self-awareness of what's actually going on inside our consciousness.

[00:43:51] Vladimir: Yeah. Uh, that's, that's ab Absolutely true. Yeah. Go ahead, please. Yeah,

[00:43:55] CK: so, so I have a specific question for me personally. [00:44:00] So these days, thanks to all of the work that I've done, uh, what used to be really noisy here now is noiseless or much, much less noisy.

And when I'm doing spiritual technology or any kind of meditation, I actually have a hard time look like finding charges. So, so I wanted to, I wanted to hear your perspective, either one, am I not looking at it hard enough? Am I just, uh, do I not like, see the nuance differences or it is not enough effort, or, or I'm just a walking Buddha.

I have no charges all the time. .

[00:44:39] Vladimir: Ok. Ok, ok. Yeah, that, that question comes up from time to time, and at my, it is a little bit, could be a complicated discussion. Uh, one point that I can ask is, are you in a comfort zone? Are you in a comfort zone? [00:45:00] So, you know, one of the great spiritual, spiritual teachers said comfort zone is an enemy of spiritual progress.

Mm-hmm. . Why? Well, because when it's comfort, there is no trigger. , okay? Mm-hmm. , you live in a safe place, safe at home, safe at work. No challenges, all routines, established and familiar. Okay. Uh, so when that happens, it could feel that I don't have any problems. Mm-hmm. . Okay, so that's one question. Mm-hmm. , the other question is this, okay, let's not go to the other question yet.

So, how to handle, uh, uh, the comfort zone as Tony Robbins says, step up, . You know, I'm not

[00:45:53] CK: saying the razor standards. Yeah. Razor.

[00:45:56] Vladimir: Exactly, exactly. So, I don't know. Whatever your goal [00:46:00] is, if your goal is to jog, uh, one kilometer every day, raise it to three kilometers, and almost immediately you will have a negative reaction.

if you, if you earn, if you earn X amount of money, raise it to y amount of money. And almost, almost immediately, there's gonna be an not almost immediately, immediately there will be a challenge. There will be something. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Okay. So step up, raise your standards. Simply means increase your goals.

Okay? Mm-hmm. , increase your goals and that will keep you pretty efficiently outside of the comfort zone. Uh, and, uh, you know how the spiritual teacher I mentioned said that? Uh, comfort zone is the enemy of, uh, spiritual development. In, in the same, exactly the same sense. We can say that, uh, comfort zone is the enemy of progress of success.

Mm-hmm. , because once you reach your goals, you don't increase them. That's [00:47:00] it. Okay. Stagnation. But then you increase them and then more progress. So that's one thing to, to think about. Another thing to think about is this, this is how I live my, my life. Mm-hmm. , uh, I am, and this is not something that I had to train myself to do.

It's the result of me doing processes a long time. Okay. As I said, 30 and something years ago, I'm basically aware as soon as I have a negative reaction mm-hmm. . Okay. Let's say after this podcast, some, somebody tells something to me, which is unpleasant. Mm-hmm. , I get, I get angry immediately. I know it's a mental note.

It's full awareness. Hey, this is a topic to work on. Mm-hmm. , this is a trigger. Okay. And that's how I go through life. Noticing negative reactions. But you know, when we say negative reactions, we don't mean just very bad negative reactions when I [00:48:00] do something crazy. No. Even subtle negative emotions are negative reactions to deal with.

So unless you are really a bud, You just cannot say that you don't have problems. Okay? Yeah. So when we, when we, when we say problems, we don't mean major things, although it includes major things like, I'm dying of cancer, I just, you know, lost somebody. They're life crisis. They're not emotional problems.

They're much more, and yes, these methods are very applicable in those situations, and they're actually lifesavers in those situations. But when we say emotional problems, we mean even subtle negative thoughts and emotions, okay? Mm-hmm. , which we, which every human being has multiple times per day. Per day.

So when you're aware of that, it's kind of difficult to run out of topics. Okay? So be aware during the day about negative reactions. You're just watching news here. How [00:49:00] many negative reactions do you have? Okay. Just been watching the news. So that's another thing to think about. Here is something else. We live in a con, continuous mode, mode of suppression, a repression of ourselves.

We continuously resist. How do I know that's true? Because we are, we are not Buddhas, we are still, uh, human beings that have the ego, if I manage to enter. Acceptance, acceptance mode as opposed to resistance mode in certain amount of time. Difficult to say. What time? Three hours. Uh, seven days, three months, three years.

The ego would be dissolved and I would not need any methods. I would [00:50:00] not need we persona, I would not need, uh, spiritual technology, anything. Okay. So that's why people say, you know, acceptance is the key. Acceptance is the key. But we live in, in the, in a different regime, in a different mode, which is suppression, resistance.

Continuously. Continuously. Okay. So here is one thing to do. Sit down or lay down. I prefer laying down. Close your eyes and just ask yourself, what am I resisting now? And just be open. What am I resisting now? Because we have resisting something continuously. If we were in this resistance mode in a, in a certain amount of time, we would become Buddhas.

That's just simply because we are not resisting, uh, the charge suppressed stops and emotions are being triggered. We are not [00:51:00] resisting them. They are being released. We are not saying No, no, no. We are not resisting them. They're being released, being released, being released. And after a while they would be fully released.

So that's, that's a practical thing to do. Lay down, sit down and think, what am I resisting now? And something will pop up. Yeah. Yeah. And there is another thing, and there is just, just, just tell me this last thing. You can use that if you have, uh, can it yourself, you can use that with your clients. If you have clients when they say, Ooh, ooh, I don't know.

What problem can I work on? You can ask this question. Hmm. What needs to happen for you to have the life that you want to have? So just close your eyes. You say to the client or yourself, what needs to happen for you to have the life that you want to have. Mm-hmm. . Well, I need to have more friends. Alright, [00:52:00] here's a problem.

Okay. I don't have enough friends. I need more free time. Here is another problem. Mm-hmm. . Okay. So you just, you can start the process. Okay. No free time. Close your eyes. How do you feel about what? Uh, not having enough free time. Oh, I feel frustrated. Something to work on. It's a magical question that it will, uh, what's the word, elicit.

uh, uh, problems that the client is not even aware of when you say, Hey, what problems do you have right now? So what needs to happen for you to have the life that you want to have? Mm-hmm. , and then things pop up, and then you just work on that.

[00:52:43] CK: I appreciate answering these questions. I mean, I was being obviously facetious as, uh, comparing myself to a walk in Buddha, but those two questions, but those two questions are actually very valid, right?

As soon as you ask those questions, what am I resisting right now? One is [00:53:00] to happen in order for you to have the life that you want to have. Exactly. Automatically the brain goes to work and, uh, automatically.

[00:53:06] Vladimir: Exactly, yes. And look, you didn't, you, you, uh, uh, uh, calling yourself, say the Buddha is not really, uh, it's not really, uh, in any way wrong.

Mm-hmm. , because if I don't have any problems, I am a Buddha. Mm-hmm. , that's it. But if I really don't have any problems, okay? Because in this context, problems, uh, are the reactions of suppressed content. And being a Buddha simply means not having suppressed content, not having suppressed thoughts, emotions, identities.

That's it. Okay. So sometimes jokingly, I say when, when clients say, well, I don't have any problem, so you are a Buddha, or, no, no, I'm well, Jen, problem, problem.

[00:53:52] CK: Yeah. So, uh, tactical question here real quick. Um, I have two questions, two follow-up question. One is, do [00:54:00] you process immediately or do you batch them?

You write them down and you do it in one session at the end of the day or middle of the day or something. What do you

[00:54:08] Vladimir: do? For me personally? Hmm? I process it as soon as I have an opportunity, I see as, as soon as I have an opportunity. Okay. Of course, if I'm somewhere where I cannot do it, then I try to be lip observe, observe meaning, be fully aware of the reaction, let it manifest, but don't necessarily let it overtake you.

Okay? Try to act from, uh, uh, let's say from the rational. If you are overtaken by a negative reaction, you can submit to that negative reaction and start hiding, okay? Mm-hmm. , or you can let it happen, but try not to, uh, be controlled by, okay? And then when I have the first opportunity, uh, I do the process [00:55:00] because one of the privileges that we have with these methods, and it's a privilege, you don't have to suffer.

Mm-hmm. , uh, uh, you can use the first opportunity and release the problem as opposed to just, you know, look, I know people who, who, for example, had something bad happen. and I was looking at them, observing them, how they suffer for two weeks, for six months, how they start drinking, how they come up with all negative conclusions about life.

Mm-hmm. , and you know, what they're doing. They're not just suffering at the moment, they're actually adding more problematic stuff, negative conclusions, negative decisions, negative beliefs based on those negative experiences. And then further in the future, it's gonna be worse. So, uh, a person I knew had a very, uh, had a breakup with his girlfriend many years ago.

Uh, and [00:56:00] then he went to the suffering stage of drinking and being very negative for like six months. And I have been watching them later for years, acting very badly towards women. Mm-hmm. In his further relationship or base on that one, uh, uh, unfortunate breakup. Mm-hmm. . So if he used the processes, first of all, he would suffer less during that time, he would release that.

And more importantly, he wouldn't come up with crazy, uh, uh, decisions, ideas, beliefs about women and relationships, which seriously poisoned a number of his future, uh, uh, relationships. So, to go back to your question, I use the process as soon as I have an opportunity and I make sure I use the pro I, I use at least one process.

I do at least one process every day, even when I feel good. Good. Even when I feel good.

[00:56:57] CK: Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's actually a [00:57:00] personal practice of my, these days is to, you know, part of the way I think about it, you know how we go to the gym to exercise the muscles? Yep. Right? We have more capacity for strength, stamina, all these things.

You don't wait until you actually need to move to say, all right, I need to go to the gym for six hours to before I need to move my house. No, you do it every day. Every day, every day. As we cultivate this capacity. So similarly, in my opinion, this is the spiritual gym, right? Our, we're cultivating our ability to, uh, remove content or transmute content very, very quickly.

So to me, this is a worthy, the daily discipline or bliss discipline, right. Blissfully, you know, doing this about disciplines. Yeah. Yes.

[00:57:45] Vladimir: Let me, lemme just add something to that metaphor. If, if, if it's a metaphor. So when you go to the dream and you practice, uh, yeah. You feel better. And as long as you keep [00:58:00] practicing, you have benefits.

Mm-hmm. . But there is another aspect here. Uh, with spiritual technology, if you do it every day, you don't just feel better in the moment. You reduce the ego for one little building block with every process. So basically you carry less weight with every process that you do. You reduce that weight for a certain amount and you accelerate your spiritual evolution because that's what we are doing here on this planet.

Mm-hmm. , we're going towards, uh, uh, full enlightenment, so to speak, even though that's not, not a good word. Okay. Uh, so somebody said that yoga is, uh, uh, uh, created just to accelerate what would happen anyway. Anyway, so we are going towards some evolutionary goal, and that goal is to completely [00:59:00] release, uh, uh, uh, uh, suppress thoughts and emotions or sun scars, uh, which are the impurities, the byproduct of, uh, evolving, okay?

Mm-hmm. . And if you do process every day, uh, you accelerate that. So basically you are not just feeling better right now by doing the process, you are investing into the future. Mm-hmm. . Cause every day you remove a process. Every next day you carry less weight and you accelerate your evolution. Yeah. So it's not just about now feeling better.

It, even though yes, you feel better now. It's about future investment. .

[00:59:39] CK: Yep. I'm, I'm right there with you, my friend. So I actually do want to follow up with the question, the analogy you use about Tony Robbins. You know, Tony Robbins is all about raising your standards, right? So, which I am a huge proponent of raising standards, mastery development, hence this particular podcast.

But assu, so I agree with you and [01:00:00] what I can hear already. Some of the skeptics will say, well, wait a minute. I thought spirituality is all about, you know, being in a per perfect harmony with what is, so what do you mean, like, raising your standards? Like it seems paradoxical, you know, conflicting. Can you speak a little bit more about that, uh,

[01:00:21] Vladimir: Yeah. So, uh, spirituality is not against anything. Spirituality is, uh, against identifying with anything. Mm. Okay. So if you want to be a successful business person mm-hmm. , because you want to boost your ego, that's the problem. Okay. Identifying which means aha, I will be wealthy and, and, and famous, which means I am wealthy, I am special, I am superior.

That's the problem with, uh, uh, achieving anything. [01:01:00] Okay? But if you don't identify with anything that you do, it's not in conflict with spiritual. Mm. Got it. Okay. Now it's not such an, so that's one thing to make. Now, just yesterday I was, uh, listening live discourse. I was here in Sydney, uh, was here. Mm-hmm.

And he had his, uh, talk and I attended. And one of the things he said was this, uh, nobody gets enlightened if they don't suffer. Mm mm Nobody gets, uh, uh, probably he didn't use the word for word like that, but you know, that's the meaning, which means suffering is here, uh, uh, to help us evolve. Okay. So we go back to that comfort zone.

If you're in your comfort zone, you don't suffer. It's, [01:02:00] uh, very difficult to make any spiritual progress.

[01:02:05] CK: I see. So pause. So what what I, what I just got now is, hey, if you're perfectly comfortable, that's fine. It's no problem. Right? But if you want to grow, if you want to evolve, you wanna progress in any, if you have that intention, then push your edge in an objective, neutral kind of a way.

Is that what I'm hearing?

[01:02:27] Vladimir: Yeah. You know why? Because if you are in, in a routine state, charge doesn't get accurate. If charge, charge doesn't get activated, you don't suffer. If charge doesn't get activated, you don't get an opportunity to release it. Do you understand what I mean? I do. When do you use, when do you use spiritual?

So we have lots of charge, but only one little part of it. And for, for, for the listeners, if they don't know what charge mean, simply suppress thoughts and emotions. So we have many of them. Most of them are passive. Most of them are passive. If they were active, [01:03:00] all of them, we would end up in a mental hospital.

Okay. So most of them are passive, a little bit of them is active, and that little part is what you process with our processes. Okay. But if you live in a very comfortable state, nothing gets activated. You feel like you have no problems. There is no, there is no, uh, uh, not, there is nothing to process.

Nothing to overcome, okay. Mm-hmm. . So having goals, uh, activating charge, having goals is not a problem. The problem is always when we identify with things mm-hmm. that's having experiences is not the problem. It's a problem if it's, oh, I am so superior. I am better than others. I am privileged having identities, which are false identities.

That's the problem with spirituality, not having talks and emotions. Okay.

[01:03:53] CK: So, I gotcha. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, one case in point, not, not to belabor on this point, but for [01:04:00] anyone who's listening, I, I won't want to make it as practical, as relatable to anyone listening. Right. So recently I've been doing a lot of bicycling class, cycling class, and for me it's just fun.

And for me, I want to keep pushing my, uh, number of calories I burn during those hour. And it is just fun. Like there is no charge, Hey, today I did five 50, you know, next week or next month I did 600. Like, I feel joyful about it, but I don't identify like, hey, I'm a six. Exactly. or a 900, like, I'm somewhat better than those who are losers who are doing 300 What Things like that.


[01:04:38] Vladimir: Exactly. So goals are not, um, goals in itself. They're not a problem unless you identified, so I just mentioned . Mm-hmm. . So he was here yesterday. There were like 6,000 people, obviously him flying around the world and giving these, these courses in front of many people. That's a goal, isn't it? [01:05:00] Mm-hmm.

And being an enlightened person, does that mean that he shouldn't have any goals? No, not really. But he doesn't identify with it. Mm-hmm. . Okay. He's not looking for a sense of self in it. Obviously. You can see that when he, he's talking, uh, uh, uh, in front of the. . Uh, yeah, so that would be the difference. Okay.

Uh, uh, having goals and then we have functional goals. Okay. Functional goals, like I need a roof over my head, but that's not usually the status ego. When I, when I, when I want to mention with 20 rooms, that's probably the status ego. Yeah. So there are functional, practical goals that we all need to fulfill, but they're usually easy to fulfill.

Uh, like a roof, uh, over my head and enough food and paying bills, that's not very difficult if we make it difficult when we, uh, increase [01:06:00] those requests to a bigger house and a bigger house and a more expensive car and this and that.

[01:06:07] CK: Yeah. So, okay. So on that note about Karoli, I'm glad you mentioned that cuz I was gonna ask that question anyway.

Few different schools of thought. I love transformational content. I like content because for me, when I consume content, it brings up aha. There's a nuanced understanding of something or maybe a charge was brought up. So I like content, but there's another school of thought who says, Hey, the answers you seek are already within you.

You don't need any more content outside of you. You just need to seek inward, um, to find whatever insights or epiphanies that you want. So, As a practitioner, as a teacher, as a, obviously right now you just mentioned you went to aircraft's talk. What's your position around consuming content?

[01:06:59] Vladimir: So can [01:07:00] you just a little bit define more what you mean by consuming content is like reading spiritual books?

What spirituals that's Yes. Alright. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Again, you know how we talked about the relation between with and spiritual technology and how I pointed out they're not really in conflict, okay. Mm-hmm. , there is no, there shouldn't be either or the same thing here. Yeah. So let's go back to that, to that, uh, school of thought that says, uh, you are who you are already.

You just need to uncover that. Mm-hmm. , it's hundred percent true. Mm-hmm. , it's hundred percent true. Okay. How do you know that? You probably read it in some content if you

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So if you use these both schools of thought, uh, in the uh, uh, right way. So look, when I [01:08:00] listened to aircraft and I listened to him for 20 and something years, you know what happens? Because I have my practice and I look, if you just listen to content, that's a problem. Okay. Uh, when I started, I was 19 years old when I started, everybody starts by.

and we didn't call it content at that time. We called it books . Okay. Content is is not a word that I really understand. So I used to buy all available books by spiritual teachers and read and read and you know, what I was doing, creating more content. Mm-hmm. . Okay. Because I functioned from the point of view of the ego and how the ego functions.

Ah-huh. This is spirituality. And then you create new beliefs, new mental positions, more ego. Ah-huh. That's spirituality. That's how I should be. And do more content, more mental [01:09:00] positions. And when you begin your spiritual path, there is this incubation period, period of adaptation before you are ready to actually do something about it.

And that's content. You're just adjusting to the idea that you should actually do something about it. And you do that by reading, reading, reading, reading, absorbing, trying to a, uh, adjust to all this to observe and you create content. And then later when I started, uh, practicing, I actually had to process away that content.

It was a pile of junk. But I don't think there is a way, I don't think there is a way around that. Okay. I don't think so in the beginning. You need to adjust to those ideas. You need to somehow, Change the, the perception of, you know, of that you have to include that in yourself. There's no way around that.

Mm-hmm. . But then again, as, as I said later, I literally had to process away all the junk [01:10:00] that are accumulated in that first period. Okay. Mm-hmm. . And then what happened? I found some balance. I found some balance. Okay. I would be doing my processes, which basically means it's just uncovering mm-hmm. in all processes that we do.

It's just uncovering, we don't create anything. We just release, make the unconscious conscious, uncover, uncover. But on the other hand, as I was listening, Eckhart or Osho or other spiritual teachers, sometimes when they, when they say something, it's also uncovering in, in the way of, I had it somewhere here, not fully conscious.

And when they said it, it popped up because it was ready and I feel released. So if you just assume this, uh, attitude, you are what you are, you just need to uncover the question is how, how you're going to uncover that, okay? Mm-hmm. , [01:11:00] uh, if you use methods, okay, no problem. But if you use methods and you combine that with listening, then that's the best approach.

at least in my experience, I, I do methods every day and I listen to these guys and it's, uh, complimenting each other. Mm-hmm. , it's compli. Just listening to those guys. Not good. Mm-hmm. , that means you just keep adding, you're trying to be through the ego to be enlightened. It's like, it's, it's like saying someone be enlightened.

You cannot be enlightened because you don't understand what that means. You understand it through the ego, which means, which means you're trying to, to, to take a mental position. You are creating an identity to be enlightened. They're just adding more to the ego. And so just listening to them, I don't think it helps much.

Okay. Yeah. But if you do methodology that really works, like spiritual technology and also listen to these guys, I think that's the best [01:12:00] combo. That's the best combination. Better than just doing the processes.

[01:12:05] CK: Yeah, for sure. Um, one metaphor that we, uh, use here on Noble Warrior a lot is, um, it's kind of like walking, right?

Your right foot is contemplation, consuming content, talking about it, thinking about it, writing about it, and the left foot is practic. in order to travel long distance. Mm-hmm. , you need to use rifle. Left rifle. Left rifle. Yes. That's how you walk. Right. But if you just keep using in Right, right, right, right.

You're walking in circles or you keep taking action, action, action. Without thinking about your walking in circles too. Yes. So in my mind, the feedback loop, the ying and the yang rifle, left rifle, rifle, rifle, rifle, , the

[01:12:46] Vladimir: feedback loop is, is exactly the word I was looking for. When I do my practice and I listen, uh, uh, you know, uh, consume content, the right content, then this feedback [01:13:00] loop is created.

Okay. Which is, for me, the best combination, better than just processes. Just processes is okay, but this is better. And just listening, just consuming content, I don't think that's even good because you are, you just keep adding content Yep. To the ego. Yeah.

[01:13:24] CK: Uh, I have a PhD. I've read thousands of books. I was at the school of consuming thousands of books in because I thought that would make me wise and Nope.

Is just clogged up my mind with so much content. I had to, you know, as you said, process them to find my own gem. Yes. Afterwards.

[01:13:45] Vladimir: Yes. Look, I don't think that was a waste of time in any way. Uh, you know, OSHA said, uh, A person's, uh, uh, steps on the spiritual part. When the terror of the mind becomes unbearable, [01:14:00] when the terror of the mind becomes unbearable, which means you have to go and develop your intellect as much as possible to reach, uh, certain point where you can actually say, yeah, that's it.

You didn't satisfy me. It doesn't work in terms of fulfillment. Okay? And then you look for something else. But at least, uh, the intellect is sharpened. And I think that's also important. I think this is also important. I think most people who are actually seriously on the spiritual path did something before that to, uh, sharpen the intellect to, uh, uh, how to say that, uh, uh, inhabit that aspect of the, of themselves fully.

Mm-hmm. okay. [01:15:00] And, uh, yeah. And then they can look, uh, beyond it, but at the same time having a sharp intellect. I think it's quite important. Yeah. Thank you for that reminder. And the books that you talk about are, uh, engineering. Uh, uh, uh, uh, books which are not going to create too much content. They will create, uh, a knowledge, but not content.

But I say content, I mean, identifications, suppress thoughts and emotions. And so ,

[01:15:33] CK: uh, that's a whole different rabbit hole I can talk to you about. I wanna Okay. Nothing anyways, but lemme come back to this. Alright, let's go there. Yeah, yeah, exactly. In your, okay, so one thing that I'm actually impressed because, uh, I thought your, uh, book spiritual technology is very well written.

It's, it's, it's very, very well written. So thank you. Congratulations for writing that book. In that book you had said that you had [01:16:00] written, you've done 4,000 as Specx. That was 10 years ago. Probably. Now it's probably a lot more. So that made an impression for me cuz I'm nowhere near 4,000. Right? So I'm curious, right, from the perspective of someone who's just started, to someone who's done 4,000, I think you mentioned to me like 10,000 or 30,000 now, whatever the number, it's what is the journey?

What's the difference? You know, what's the help of the difference, you know, when you, after so many practices?

[01:16:34] Vladimir: So that period, uh, that I was describing in, in that book happened actually 25 years ago. Uh, wow. Or something. Even, even more, I think it was 1996 or something like that. Mm-hmm. , uh, and I did 30,000 processes in around eight months, which means I was basically processing eight to 16 hours per day.

Mm-hmm. . Okay. [01:17:00] So let me just briefly give you some, uh, context. Mm-hmm. . So, uh, going back to what also said, uh, uh, that a person steps on the spiritual part. One, once the terror of the mind becomes unbearable, in other words, uh, it's what Catholic says. Uh, you, you start, uh, uh, spirituality once suffering becomes unbearable, once you suffered enough.

Okay. And something like that happened to me. I think I, uh, uh, I was never diagnosed, but I think that I had, and maybe still have h d Okay. Mm-hmm. . So as a child, I was extremely physically active, lacking attention. Uh, and then when I went into puberty, the activity, uh, uh, transformed from physical into mental mm-hmm.

which means over a short period of time I created huge amount of suppress content. Mm-hmm. , which resulted in suffering. So I was looking, I was looking for [01:18:00] something to help me. Uh, so I became interested in spirituality very quickly. And there were other reasons, but now probably it's not. Relevant. So I was like 19 when I, when I started.

Uh, and uh, I was looking for different things. Once I found something, once I found JI at Lavinsky and Intensive of Enlightenment or Enlightenment Intensive, I had this internal clear recognition here. That's what I was looking for. Mm-hmm. . Okay. So, uh, I went to short intensives, long intensives, and I think I was, I was around, uh, 21 when I had, when I had this experience, I found myself as I woke up in the morning, literally outside of my ego.

So for a very short period of time, I had full access in what it [01:19:00] means to be, to have no ego completely. Okay. Uh, and it was such a, uh, familiar state. Mm-hmm. , it was me, just me without any thoughts, uh, emotions or identities. Yet I was still a able to fully in and feel okay. And, uh, then I went to 14 intensity.

14 day intensive is a, is a hard thing to. So what happens is this, all of us have some kind of gatekeeper in ourselves. What is gatekeeper? So we have a huge amount of suppressed thoughts and emotions. Mm-hmm. . And this gatekeeper only allows to [01:20:00] pass from unconscious to conscious the amount that we can currently handle.

Okay. It's like a fuse. Okay. It's like a fuse for electric power. When electric power increases, the fuse jumps out. So, uh, uh, problems don't happen. So we have this gatekeeper and that gatekeeper doesn't allow more, uh, uh, uh, uh, mental and emotional content to surface more than we can handle at the moment.

Mm-hmm. . And when you, when you do, when you diagnostic intensive, uh, or uh, that last 14 days, you keep bashing that gatekeeper. You keep destroying it. And, you know, uh, the guy who initially created, uh, who created, uh, uh, the first version of intensive Charles Burner mm-hmm. elimination intensive, he said like something like this, people ask me, what will my light be after the long intensive?[01:21:00]

And I say, well, , it may not, not necessarily be better, but it'll be closer to the truth, . And after this 14 day intensive, I understood what he meant because I pretty much destroyed this gatekeeper. Even though my life was closer to the truth, I had stronger reactions. Okay. Because the gatekeeper was pretty much destroyed.

So I had quicker and stronger reactions because the mechanism which was in place before to keep them under control is now gone. Mm. And I was, I'm not in a good state, so to speak, because imagine being far more reactive than you really are. Mm-hmm. when these reactions are more frequent, uh, and stronger and quicker.

And, uh, so just maybe 1, 1, 1 or two [01:22:00] months after that, Ji Lavinsky, my teacher, he released this matter tactics mm-hmm. . And it was really, it's one of my favorite techniques. Yeah. And it was a sa savior for me. Mm-hmm. because I was in that state. So this is what happened first, I had this spiritual experience when I completely experienced the final reality as it is.

So I was familiar with it. And then I had this intensive experience when I was very react and I had this good method. , which enabled me to deal with these reactions, okay? Mm-hmm. . So now I had this contrast. Look, I know, I know what this, uh, uh, end looks like, and I have my current state, which is not really good.

And I had a feeling, look, if I use this good method, I can get close to this, uh, uh, final state as much as possible. And that motivated me. So basically without [01:23:00] any discipline, I, I wasn't doing processes, hours and hours per day because I was disciplined. It was like a pleasure. It was like an adventure.

Mm-hmm. . And I just couldn't stop. Okay. And that is the context. Mm-hmm. , first of all, knowing what the goal is, feeling it like, oh, it can be achieved. And then, uh, having this current negative state caused by this, uh, intensive and having a tool to maybe move from this current negative state closer to what I consider to be the end state.

Uh, see, uh, most people don't know in spirituality where they're going. How does that end state look like? I know because I experienced it for a while, and then it happened two times after that. Two more times after that as well. So, yes, I have been doing these methods, uh, uh, uh, uh, processes, like 30,000 of them.

And many things changed. [01:24:00] Okay. Many things changed. Uh, my perception about myself changed, my perception about the world changed. Uh, I was able to enter the state of oneness, uh, in non-active state, which means I just sit down, I lay down and I go into that state like that. Okay, no problem. I still wasn't able to enter it in the state of, uh, when I'm active.

Okay? Because once you're active, when I'm active, which means I'm not, uh, sitting down or laying down, but I'm doing something. Okay. It took me some, uh, some time to get there, but yeah, uh, uh, everything basically changed. When I say everything changed, it means everything in my perception changed. Nothing outside of me.

Changed life, remained, uh, uh, remained the same. Other people remained the same, but I released so many of my negative reactions and the ego became transparent. Ok. The ego became trans transparent. [01:25:00] Yeah. Before it wasn't transparent. It was like a black mask surrounding me. Now it was transparent.

[01:25:06] CK: Yeah. Okay.

So if you can use like a martial art example, right? White bell, yellow bell, blue bell, purple bell. What black belt? Like, describe the different phases. Of this experience. Ok. Okay. So, so

[01:25:23] Vladimir: see, when you think, uh, uh, when you, uh, uh, think about phases, they depend on the methodology being used. Okay? For example, for example, uh, in Zen I read somewhere they zen masters differentiate, or then practitioners differentiate 17 different types of emptiness.

Mm-hmm. Okay? Because that's needed for their, uh, uh, uh, methodology and how they travel through, uh, uh, on their path. [01:26:00] In what? In what I do. Mm-hmm. , I only differentiate two types of emptiness. I call it fake emptiness and realness. Right? Uh, fake emptiness is when the ego is empty, but it's still active.

Mm-hmm. . And there is this duality me and ego, me and emptiness. Not the same thing. Okay? Not the same thing. Real emptiness is when we do the process, ego deactivates, it's still there. It deactivates, but I feel myself. Okay. So, uh, the point is, uh, uh, these, uh, states, uh, I described them in my book. Uh, uh, did these stages.

Stages, I described them in the book. I don't think that I can even remember, but I'll try. So basically, The, uh, the first one was you start from a, from a crowd. You are a crowd of, of, of, of, uh, identities and content, okay? Mm-hmm. . And then, uh, uh, I think the first state was, [01:27:00] uh, I, uh, I am, uh, emptiness or, or I, mm-hmm.

no, no, the first state was i am me. I think so. Okay. Mm-hmm. . And that lasted, lasted as an identity for a while. Then I did processes, did many, many, many, many. Then, uh, the next one was, I am emptiness. That lasted for a while. Uh, and then I realized, yeah, this emptiness is also content. So I removed that. So what, what you have at the end is presence.

Uh, and now when you don't think anything, you are there present. But if you think, who am I? Then the, the best thing, the closest thing is I am me. I am myself. Mm-hmm. . But it's just a thought. Okay? Mm-hmm. , the very moment you start thinking, I am me, it's a thought. It's, it's, it's a four. But if you release that four, then again, it's you.

[01:28:00] It's you, just, you the same, you, you know your whole life being there, not being covered by identities and thoughts and emotions, but if you want to somehow verbalize it, then you say, I am. But not me as an identity, but me as a, a being, which doesn't have any matter, energy, space and time, but it's still you.

The same you that you know yourself your whole life.

[01:28:29] CK: Mm-hmm. . And you also in the end says, just, I am just, I am basically like presence. Is that what you mean? Yes.

[01:28:39] Vladimir: Yes. So look, we just talked about Eckhart. So one of the, the things he said, uh, not in this, uh, uh, yesterday's talk, but generally he said that the ultimate truth about you is not I am this or I am that, but I am.

Mm-hmm. . Okay. So what that basically means, it's not an identity when you say I am this or I am [01:29:00] dead. It means I am body, I am consciousness, I am male, I am female. I am many things that I am. Whenever there is something evident to I am, that's an identity. Okay? We are identified with it. Uh, so it's not I, it's not I am this or that.

It's I am okay. Uh, I am without an identity, just in other words, just me. What is the difference between enlightenment I am and everyday me? Well, everyday me is always, I am something I embody. I am consciousness, but the enlightenment is de-identified consciousness. Just I am. Or you can even say I am without I.

Okay. I am without I. Alright. Uh, this, this debate is I, uh, uh, uh, enlightenment or is it not enlightenment? I, as a thought is not enlightenment is just a thought. Okay. [01:30:00] But when there is no thought, there is your being. If you ask yourself, who am I? Uh, you immediately, uh, uh, feel I am okay. But if you think I am, then that's a thought.

If you let go of that thought, what remains is the being without thinking I am. Got it.

[01:30:22] CK: Thank you for that. It's, it's

[01:30:24] Vladimir: difficult to explain that, but, uh, experience,

[01:30:29] CK: I mean, we're, we're, we're trying to describe dynamic nothingness, right? How, how do, yeah. Any words is content. Like how do you describe nothingness with content?

It's, you know, it's paradoxical.

[01:30:41] Vladimir: Yes. You cannot do that. Uh, as Lasu said, you know, he said, I think that Dao you can talk about is not Dao Okay? Mm-hmm. . Because when you say something about it, it's a concept. Every word is a concept. Uh, and then you perceive that concept, and then you create that concept, and then you [01:31:00] experience the concept.

You don't experience, experience the thing itself. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, it cannot be. But, uh, it can be experienced through, through methodology. Yeah.

[01:31:14] CK: Yeah. I, I always thought that opening line was really funny. He said that's the Chinese version. You know, the doo that can be said is not the doo. And then he said that, and he proceeded to describe

Exactly. Wrote a whole book about it.

[01:31:30] Vladimir: Well, well, yeah. Yeah. Well, Eckhart said, you know, like Lasu said, the Dao you can talk about is not Dao, but now, once we said that, we can talk about it . Yeah. I, so, so, so, you know, so you know that these are just words pointing today mm-hmm. . So once you know that you have some pointers, but you, you don't take it literally.

Mm-hmm. .

[01:31:57] CK: Got it. I appreciate that. Now, you [01:32:00] had mentioned you were practicing the, you know, enlightenment intensive so intensely for 14 days, and you knock on the, the, what do you call it, gateway? The, the market.

[01:32:11] Vladimir: Well, that's how I call it. The, the, the, the gateway. I don't know, I, I, I already forgot. Yeah. But it's basically a mecca.

It's, it's a mechanism that is there to, uh, only allow a reactivity as much as you can handle, you know? Yeah. We, it, it, it's, it's a, a. . It's, it's a defense mechanism. One of the, probably many that we have, you know, we know, you know, when children have tantrums, you know, like a toddlers, they have tantrums, and that's because that mechanism is still not working properly.

Okay. And then you start socializing them and then they learn. And basically another human being has an internal guard against this reactivity. We continuously live having [01:33:00] this guard against our reactivity. So when a reaction comes up to actually suppress it, not to feel it fully. So yeah, the gateway keeper.

Yeah, the gateway. That's right. Keeper. I think that's right.

[01:33:12] CK: So, you know, one of the things that we do talk about psychedelics on this podcast. I know you had told me in our earlier podcast you haven't had that experience, but I only want to elude into it to this specific point. Uh, these classic psychedelics, uh, what they do, um, I guess biochem, psychologically, I guess you can call it that, is they turn down the default network, the guard, right?

That's guarding the, the control. So then we can experience new things. So it sounds like it's very similar. The way that you describe it is what I was wanting to point to

[01:33:48] Vladimir: o often I listen to the description of people who use, uh, psychedelics. . And sometimes when they describe what they experience, it does sound like what we call enlightenment.

It does sound, I [01:34:00] cannot be a hundred percent sure because I, I did not experience it. Uh, but yeah, it's okay. Uh, but there are easier ways to, to experience it more, certain ways to experience it. And another thing regarding our methods is this. It's not just important to experience enlightenment. It's also important what you released on your way to enlightenment.

Okay. What you removed, uh, uh, how much you reduced the total sum of, of the weight that you carry, of the ego that you carry. So that's another aspect of these methods that we do. And yes, regarding secretaries, I don't have any experience. Uh, uh, I, I've been listening, listening a few books, uh, watching a few documentaries.

Some people didn't say that, but some people do. Ex, ex express it as a [01:35:00] spiritual experience. And it does seem very often that it is, uh, uh, a spiritual experience. Yeah. But did it release anything? Can you repeat it? , you know what I mean? Like mm-hmm. with these methods. You can repeat it 10 times a day if

[01:35:15] CK: you want.

Do I I, I know exactly what you mean. So, um, I actually do have a nuanced question I want to ask you, cuz you actually alluded to it just now. So, uh, assuming I I just a visual metaphor, right? You're climbing this mountain towards enlightenment and the summit, right? In many ways the, the daily practices of whether spiritual technology or yoga, whatever method that you choose, you're, you know, left foot, right foot, right foot, right foot.

You're climbing this mountain, right? Yes. In some ways, I, I think the metaphor that I use is psychedelics essentially pick you up, helicopter, you know, drop you off and then pick you back up and then put you back on. So, [01:36:00] so in, in some ways, for me, my personal experiences, it was very useful for me to see like, oh, that's what it feels like to be, quote unquote enlightened or connected ex to my true self.

But also at the same time my, you know, I thought it was a silver bullet. I can just stay there. But it doesn't happen that way, right? You come back down really quickly and then, but it's useful as we mentioned earlier, to stack 'em together. I do my re regular practice at the same time, if I'm stuck somewhere, Then psychedelic, ayahuasca, whatever the thing may be, can help me break through those barriers that didn't have access to otherwise.

That's my opinion today. Yeah. I'm curious to know your thoughts about that.

[01:36:52] Vladimir: Oh, okay. Okay. Uh, I can say this, uh, you can also break through those barriers with our methods. And I [01:37:00] know that from experience because every now and then I hit something very big. I had in last 30 and something years, I had that a number of times, and you hit something, some, uh, uh, entity, I don't know how you call it, because you do these methods and they are usually, uh, relatively fluent, fluently, easy to do.

And then some, uh, uh, bundle, uh, ugly bundle comes up, which is hard to deal with, and you just keep knocking that ball using the methods. And after a while it comes down. I remember, like, it doesn't happen often anymore. Now I can, I can bring it down in one process. Even that's, that may be a longer process.

Not 20 minutes, maybe one hour. But before, like 10, 15 years ago, it would take me like two or three days to, to, to bring down something like that. I would do a process. I couldn't finish the process. I would go around doing my, uh, you know, everyday life activities, keeping this [01:38:00] thing, uh, in the back of my mind.

And then going back later doing pro again, stand up, do something else, keep it in the back, and two or three days later, I hit something and it disappears. Mm-hmm. Okay. So, uh, yep. These, uh, big issues, big roadblocks, they come up. Okay? Uh, but you can, uh, you can break them down with these methods as well. Or if you use this approach that you, uh, mentioned.

Look, I don't have anything against it really. I never even tried it. How can I, how can I, okay. Mm-hmm. . So, uh, in my opinion, you, you, uh, you know what works the best for you and use that. How do you know that? Yeah. From experience, okay. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Use it. Combine it. You know, I, I run seminars and people ask me, uh, should I use this?

Should I use that? They're even sometimes afraid that I will be jealous, that I will be angry if they use other methods. No. Okay. Use everything that works for you. I, my whole life I was [01:39:00] a student of JI, but he never had anything against me trying everything else. And I tried everything else. Okay? So yeah, we don't have any dogma, religion, jealousy, uh, try everything.

Use everything. And if that, if you, if you have found an approach that works, use it.

[01:39:19] CK: Yeah. So, so here's someone who says who, who actually loves therapy. And this is one opinion, and I think. similar, but I just don't wanna double check with you. So his opinion is therapy. Yes. It creates a lot of content, but it helps me basically try out different nooks and crannies of his mind and versus so, and then he liked that because he can now look at it for all the different nooks and crannies of his mind versus let's say, you know, aspectics

I took him through aspectics process. He liked that a lot. Um, he also had had, you know, heroic dose of, let's say a psilocybin experience. So for him, for him, [01:40:00] for him, the work is going through the process. As difficult as the nooks and crannies may be, he didn't really want to use psilocybin as a regular practice.

He said he will only use psilocybin if he, all these other methods stop working. He's really stuck. Yeah. That, that's his opinion. So I'm curious to know if you, if that's essentially what you said, or is there some nuance that you wanted to say about his opinion? Well,

[01:40:29] Vladimir: look, uh, I think he's right, you know, uh, I don't, uh, I don't, I don't know much about psilocybin.

Uh, I think I listen Jordan Peterson speaking, how even one time using psilocybin can, uh, uh, alter your brain permanently. I don't know whether that's two. Okay. But I am always for processes. Okay. Uh, if I didn't have any need, uh, to use any of these, Uh, well, I shouldn't, [01:41:00] you know, compare myself to other people.

People are different. Uh, but yeah, using that would be probably last, the last resort. You know, if, if he's using therapy to explore his mind and at the same time aspectics that's great. But let just point out, aspectics also explores your mind, if you understand what I mean. So, yeah. Yeah, these two approaches combined, they're good.

Uh, uh, and yeah, I wouldn't, uh, uh, see particularly any great need for using the mushroom or wherein comes from. Yeah.

[01:41:39] CK: Now, uh, a couple more questions if you don't mind. You had mentioned, um, that you experienced, uh, you were basically the, the control is down, so you were more reactive. Would you consider that dark eye of the soul, or that's very different?

That's not dark night of the soul.

[01:41:59] Vladimir: No, not [01:42:00] really. Uh, this is a very specific thing. You know, you will have difficulties to find a person unless they're mentally ill who destroyed that self, self, uh, defense mechanism. . Okay. Why? You have to do something very specific to to, to destroy it. And we did it, you know, 14 days of no, uh, uh, agnostic, intensive.

That's something very specific. So no, it's not the dark night of the soul. People understand that in a different way. In, uh, in my, uh, uh, experience. Uh, I had something like that before I, uh, uh, embarked to my spiritual path. It's basically when the world, the, uh, uh, in, in which I lived in, when my, uh, perception of the world reaches I, I, it's, uh, an okay, that means this is what I think the world is and it doesn't work anymore, and you don't know what to [01:43:00] do, okay?

Mm-hmm. . Uh, and basically that's when I, uh, uh, that's when I switched to one completely materialistic point of view, which I had before I stepped on, on my spiritual part. Uh, you know, I explored every part of that world and I didn't, I found it very depressive. Okay. And then I stepped on, stepped outta it.

Mm-hmm. and enter a different paradigm, a spiritual paradigm, which is still a paradigm. Okay. It's like a working hypothesis before you actually achieved some result. But yeah, what happened to me at the end of the intensive, it's something that you will not encounter very often because people usually don't.

To destroy that, uh, uh, self-defense mechanism. Maybe it's broken with people who have mental issues. Okay. But in healthy people, that, that works pretty good. Do you feel that?

[01:43:56] CK: Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. Do you feel like [01:44:00] with spiritual technology, okay, so the reason I mentioned that, because, uh, with psychedelic, you hear people talk about Document the soul a lot, right?

Complete dissolution of their reality, and then it's very daunting for a lot of 'em. So I'm curious, yes. With spiritual technology, do you encounter that as well, or no? It's a very safe step-by-step process. You actually don't have the unquote downside of experiencing complete dissolution of reality.

First of

[01:44:29] Vladimir: all, what you just said, dissolution of my reality is exactly what the word I was looking for when I was describing how I perceived Di Dark Knight of the Soul, which is the dissolution of my materialistic view of the world. Mm-hmm. Now, let's go back to your question. Does that happen in, uh, spiritual technology?

Mm-hmm. , we treat that as just another problem. Mm. It doesn't really matter whether it's, whether it's fear of heights or, or everything is pointless. Okay. [01:45:00] Or, or nihilism. It doesn't really matter. It, that's the beauty of, uh, of this approach. , any negative reaction is just a negative reaction. It's just a problem.

It's just a construct of, uh, thoughts, emotions, identities. So if the Dark Knight of the Soul comes up with this methodology Yeah. You can, uh, dissolve it, like dissolving any other problem.

[01:45:23] CK: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. That was easy. It'll,

[01:45:26] Vladimir: it'll come up. Yeah. It'll come up. These feelings of everything being pointless and nihilistic.

Yeah. It comes up. Yeah. It came up to me later, two or three times. But you treat it as a problem. You don't, you don't confuse it for reality. Okay. Mm-hmm. , it's not reality. It is my content. Treat it as a problem, work on it with these methods. That's, that's, uh, that's the approach. Yeah.

[01:45:50] CK: Now you invented Integra Protocol, is that right?

Yep. And then Integra protocol and support and, and [01:46:00] Ator protocol. Okay. Great. So now that you have all these tools, obviously, you know, you're the inventor of Integra and Satori. Can you tell us a little bit about the difference, again, sets of tools, not one for everything. Mm-hmm. It's just different situations.

So when to use what, well,

[01:46:18] Vladimir: uh, which one do you wanna hear first? Which one do you wanna hear about first?

[01:46:21] CK: Whatever you want to, I mean, I want to hear in mall spiritual technology, uh, Integra. So to protocol, so what's in your mind as a Yeah. Similarity and differences and when to use them, so forth.

[01:46:34] Vladimir: All right.

So look, in spiritual technology, we have a few groups of groups of methods. One group, the biggest group is the one, uh, developed to release emotional problems. Okay? That's like P perspectives, Integra. Then you have intensives, okay? Uh, group intensive agnostic, group intensive, and, uh, uh, individual group intensive that's made for you to experience enlightenment.

So it doesn't resolve [01:47:00] problems, but it brings you to enlightenment. Mm-hmm. . And then, uh, you have the third one, which called Memento to, uh, made, but to recall and release memories of past lives. Mm-hmm. . Okay. So we have these three, uh, those are zivorad's methods. And then, uh, the biggest group, the one made to release problems like a Spex and Pete.

Uh, they're good, they're great methods, uh, but will they be suitable for every person? So I was doing, I was doing Pete for, uh, uh, years and it has a certain approach. I call it a free flow approach. Feel X and Inhale ex Excel, and tell me what comes up. Okay. Non-specific questions. It was suitable for some people.

It was un suitable for some other people. Uh, that's why we need more methods. , uh, [01:48:00] of more methods that deal with problems, not because one of them is non-efficient, but because people are different. Because people are different. You cannot be a tradesman with just one tool, okay. With just one screwdriver.

You need at least different sizes. Okay? Yeah. And then the other thing is, uh,

what they address within the human being. All of these methods, uh, uh, they target, uh, they try to disassemble a problem by targeting certain elements. Okay? For example, Pete integrates polarities. Mm-hmm. , uh, identities are extremely important. So in, in, in, in one period of my life, I, I realized that I feel I have this need for more efficient work with identities.

So I, I started experimenting how to do that better. Okay. There [01:49:00] was a matter that we used before it was called inter Lexical by ji, but it was created in the beginning of the nineties. And, uh, in, in, in the meantime, uh, more room cre, uh, was created for more efficient work with identities. So to be able to more efficiently work with identities, I developed, uh, uh, Integra Protocol.

And, uh, it, it, it, uh, with, with Integral Excalibur, you were able to integrate one stack identity in one process, but with Integral Protocol, you were able to integrate quite a few. Okay. Like, uh, a group, a group of identities in one process. So, uh, and then I developed, uh, the standard method, uh, for Integra, and then the basic methods.

Now here three methods, okay? Which is basic methods, standard method, and advanced method for different cl uh, uh, class of, uh, clients. Advanced is for the one who [01:50:00] do the easiest class. Uh, then there is the average one that's the standard. And then those people who have difficulties doing these methods, we use the basic method for them.

So basically everybody's covered. What do you get by integrity Protocol? If it's a general purpose method, the same like Pete and Aesthetics, what do you get by? Well, you get, uh, a different approach. So Pete is more, uh, uh, free flow, open questions, non-specific questions. Uh, Integra is more, uh, specific questions like, what is your need or intention?

Uh, what is your belief or conclusion? So these are specific, they're guiding, uh, your attention narrowly to recognize certain parts of the unconscious, uh, content. So for some people, free flow is, uh, better. For some people. Specific questions are better. . And when, when I added this, uh, uh, integral protocol to my practice, uh, I was actually much more relaxed [01:51:00] because I knew, okay, if the free flow doesn't work, specific questions will work.

Okay? So the difference is not what they do. They both release problems, but how they do it, okay? And also Pete is focused into integr integrating polarities while, uh, Integra is focused into integrating conflicted identities. So they target a little bit different, uh, uh, uh, elements, uh, but all with the same purpose to release problems, okay?

But approaches different. This is Freeflow. This is, uh, uh, specific questions. So that's Integra. Uh, but my latest method, which I find to be, uh, special for me is satori protocol, okay? Mm-hmm. . And briefly, I can briefly tell you the difference between sati and other methods. So, uh, before in order to experience enlightenment, you had to do either agnostic, intensive group or individual.

Mm-hmm. . Okay? Uh, [01:52:00] and, uh, you couldn't do it on your own. Okay? So you would go into a group and participate in a group intensive, or you would work with someone who is experienced to, to guide you, okay? But you couldn't do it on your own. You couldn't bring yourself into the state of enlightenment with authority protocol.

You can do ex exactly that. You can finish the seminar. . And even without any previous experience, you can bring yourself into the State of Enlightenment, temporary state of enlightenment every day, multiple times per day if that's what you want. Okay? So that's the first thing about stor. Okay? You don't need the group.

You don't even need another person. You can do it on your own. After you complete the seminar, you can actually apply it on yourself. And it doesn't matter if you don't have a day of experience before the seminar, or you haven't read one book before the seminar on spirituality, you can still do it. Okay?

So that's the first thing. The second thing is this. The second difference about Soto and other methods is this. [01:53:00] Before we had these two approaches, you wanted enlightenment, you use, uh, uh, agnostic, intensive, or you wanted, uh, a release of, uh, problems you would use Beat, Specx, Integra. So those, those two approaches were separated, but now wait, last

[01:53:16] CK: sentence, la last sentence one more time.

[01:53:19] Vladimir: Those two approaches were separated. Okay. You either use, uh, uh, methods for enlightenment, but you don't release problems, or you use methods for problems, but you get to get enlightenment. Mm-hmm. . And now with, with a story, with methods three and four, uh, they are integrated into one, one approach. So basically you start from a problem, you release the problem, but you end the process in the state of what we call in.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. . So that's, that's, that's, that's, uh, for me, that's a big thing. It integrates, uh, about enlightenment and release and both, uh, spiritual and therapeutical [01:54:00] in integrates both every day's life and spirituality. Because if you start from a problem, if you start from a problem, uh, my neighbor is making me angry because he makes noise.

That's very down to earth plot problem. You release that problem and you end up in the state of spiritual life. So that is integrating both, uh, uh, completely.

[01:54:23] CK: Yeah. So I'm now very familiar with Tori, but I'm very familiar with, uh, Specx. So, is, is spiritual enlightenment similar to plural state, or are they distinct?


[01:54:33] Vladimir: not really. Okay. So, uh, plural states, states of emptiness and plural states, they are the last step before. Mm-hmm. Before, uh, enlightenment. So all these other methods like Pete Integra are specs. They would bring you into the state of emptiness. Mm-hmm. , the last state before enlightenment. Enlightenment is just me.

Enlightenment is, [01:55:00] I am, if you are into the state of plural, that's content. That's content, okay. Mm-hmm. , uh, and there is, but there is just one, one more step to go in the state of Im Okay. De-identified consciousness. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[01:55:18] CK: Okay. Good to know. So, so in terms of nuance, understanding of it, because, uh, again, I'm a practical guy, right?

Engineering training, so mm-hmm. , I get that. Uh, I want to alleviate myself from, you know, subjective problems. Great. But I also, one of the reasons I like as Specx is this is a new nuanced understanding as we transcend our levels of thinking. Um, you have new ideas, like the content of which you fulfill the goal potentially are new ideas to solve the objective problems, right?

So I was like, oh, that's really interesting. Mm-hmm. a good way to brainstorm ideas that [01:56:00] way. Yeah. I'm curious with, uh, Integra or, or story protocol. Yeah. Does it also help you with, um, yes. You know, solving your objective problems too?

[01:56:13] Vladimir: Yes, of course. You know, you know why you have new ideas because you prevented charge, which you, uh, released charge, which was blocking them.

Mm-hmm. . Okay. You were basically unconsciously rejecting those ideas based on some attitudes, mental stances, beliefs, which are unconscious, which are charge, okay? Mm-hmm. . So you can use any of these methods, uh, for that purpose. Let's say my goal is to write a book. . Okay. Or let's, let's find another to, to start to start an IT company.

Okay. Mm-hmm. , let's, let's say that's my goal and then I'm thinking about my options. Many of these options as they appear, I will dismiss. [01:57:00] Mm-hmm. or I will don't see at all because I have charged preventing me to do that. Okay. If I remove that charge and it doesn't matter which, which matter you can do it with respecting synt, uh, any of those, then I will be able to, uh, uh, perceive those ideas.

And then I will think who are now I get ideas, well, I would get them before they were just prevented with mental clutter and emotional clutter. So you can do that with any of these methods. I

[01:57:33] CK: see. Got it. Okay. Uh, one last question and this, uh, second to the last question, if you don't mind.

You, during our pre-interview, you had said, um, Hey, all these technologies are really effective in removing subject subjective problems. However, a lot of people still wouldn't take action. Right. The goal achievement aspect of it, and I thought of it, it some more. . I said, wait a minute. Right? If [01:58:00] this is so good at removing the charges, people should be able to take action without any problem at all.

So can you help me reconcile?

[01:58:10] Vladimir: Well, it's not that simple. Yeah. It's not that simple. Okay. Let me give you this example. First of all, we live in a world which is complicated. It's full of triggers. Full of triggers, okay? And I am married and I have children, and I have work, and I have this and that. And I arrive to you as a therapist and I say, okay, I wanna write a book, and I wanna work on that goal.

So you tell me, okay, close your eyes. How do you think about writing a book? And I say, I feel resistance. And we remove my negative reactions about writing the book. Mm-hmm. And then I feel, oh, no negative reactions. I can just sit down and write, ok. Mm-hmm. And then I go home. And then my wife calls and she said, oh look, this happened.

That happened. Can you please? Our reaction is trigger. Then something else happened. Our reaction is trigger. Then something. What happens is this, even though I don't [01:59:00] have, uh, negative reactions and resistance to writing, I am continuously being triggered, feeling a sense of urgency to resolve this and to resolve that.

And I keep delaying, even though I don't have any, any, uh, direct charge regarding writing. . Okay. So that's one scenario why that happens. Mm-hmm. . Okay. So when you do a process, it's not like you become possessed and all of a sudden something and I start writing a book, I still have to consciously sit down, do it.

Mm-hmm. . So that's, that's why I introduce something which is called Integra Protocol Module, which has some, uh, uh, basic, uh, uh, life coaching things like determining actions, how to determine action. How to choose action. Very importantly, how to set the deadline for the action. Mm-hmm. . So if the action is small, if it doesn't, uh, uh, uh, uh, activate charge.

And if I have [02:00:00] a deadline, no matter how busy my life is, because it's easy, and because I know a deadline, I will find a way to do it. Okay? Mm-hmm. , that's how I work around this problem. Okay. By, uh, defining small first step and defining a deadline. And because the, the, in the madness of everyday life, because the first step is small, it doesn't activate charge.

And at the same time, I know the deadline, let's say tomorrow until seven, I have that in mind, and I'll find a way to do it. Okay? So that's one, that's one scenario. How come we don't have charge on certain topic, but we still don't do anything? because we are being triggered by many other things. Uh, maybe we don't have the sense of priorities very well clarified for ourselves.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's how it works. If I didn't have anything else to [02:01:00] do but writing, I will probably do that. Yeah. Got it.

[02:01:04] CK: Vladimir, any last words you want to hear or you wanna say to people? Uh, before I give you my acknowledgement? Anything, if they can remember one thing, what do you want them to take away from?

[02:01:15] Vladimir: Well, look, uh, honestly, I would advise people to learn and do some of these methods. That's what I do. . Okay. So, yes. Uh, uh, uh, other than that, you know, spiritual technology is not something that teaches you what to think, how to behave. I don't have any messages. I cannot advise you anything. I don't, I think that's even counterproductive.

But yeah, have a look around, do a little research, and maybe you learn some of these methods to try it on yourself. Yeah. And change your life.

[02:01:47] CK: What, uh, what, uh, website should they go if they wanna learn more about you and the work that you do? Okay.

[02:01:53] Vladimir: So, uh, my website is uh, uh, name, which is quite [02:02:00] complicated, uh, for people to, to navigate to.

Uh, I don't have much content there, but there are books. Okay. There are books. And yeah, doing a little bit of research on Google as well. And YouTube may help.

[02:02:14] CK: Yeah. Lair, I really, really appreciate you being here on Noble Warrior. We cover a lot of ground in the time that we have. We talked about the difference between spirituality and therapy and new age.

We talked about, um, you know, the different meditation techniques versus the very specific guided meditation technique that we use and, uh, the possibility of integrating and stacking them together. We talked about, um, well, the different phases of your personal journey, right? And we talked about, uh, what else did we talked about?

We talked about, we talked about

[02:02:51] Vladimir: a lot, we talked about, we talked about many things. Yeah. Yeah. I'm even surprised how much we actually managed to squeeze in two

[02:02:58] CK: hours. Yeah. [02:03:00] Yes. Um, which is good. I really personally just really acknowledge you for your sincerity and earnestness, earnestness and a dedication you have to this work, not only as a personal practitioner, you actually do the work yourself.

30,000 specx, right? 30 years, three books. It's obvious to anyone watching that this is something that you deeply believe in. This is your mission, this is, you know, your gift to the world. But I really appreciate also just how you show up, you know, as a teacher, as a guest, and, and, and when we were able to navigate this.

I shall say esoteric right? This hard to understand things with as much, uh, concreteness as we can. So I really, really thank you for your generosity, uh, for being here, sharing your wisdom.

[02:03:52] Vladimir: Thank you for inviting me. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Vladimir StojakovicProfile Photo

Vladimir Stojakovic

Author, Spiritual Technology Trainer, Founder of Satori Protocol and Integra Protocol

I have been practising methods of Zivorad Mihajlovic Slavinski since 1990. I earned the title "Trainer of Trainers", which is the highest level of Spiritual Technology.

Spiritual Technology is a general term that Slavinski uses for all his methods.

I am the author of three books:

-Spiritual Technology: A journey into oneself
-Integra Protocol: How to integrate internal conflicts
-Satori Protocol: How to resolve emotional problems and achieve spiritual enlightenment

​In the early 1990s, I had a spontaneous mystical experience, which initiated a period of intense work on myself, described in the book "Spiritual Technology: A journey into oneself".

From 1997 to 2007, I lived in Australia, where I continued to learn traditional and modern systems of spiritual development, life coaching and self-improvement in general.

In 2011, I was contacted by Tony Robbins, with a request to learn PEAT, a system developed by Z. M. Slavinski.

During the three-day individual training, I trained him to use PEAT and some other methods developed by Slavinski.

Since then, I have been his guest at his seminar the "Ultimate Relationship Program", in Hawaii.

In addition, I was a guest at some other Tony's seminars.

My role at Tony's seminars is to lead individual sessions with participants.

​In the meantime, I developed my first "Integra Protocol" system, which consists of three methods for release of emotional problems (Basic, Standard and Advanced) and a Life Coaching Module.

From 2007 to 2021, I lived in Serbia, where I conducted seminars and sessions every day, both in-person and online. Over the years, I have held a large number of group and individual seminars, with clients from all over the world.

I have trained a number of professionals from helping professions, such as life coaches, psychologists, psychotherapists, counsellors, NLP practitioners, etc., to use these methods effectively with their clients.

Since a great advantage of these methods is that you can learn them in a short time, most of the participants in my seminars are not professionals, but primarily want to apply the methods on themselves and their close ones.

​In 2020, I released my second system "Satori Protocol", which is a true breakthrough and a revolutionary shift in the field of spiritual development and release of emotional problems.

Satori Protocol is the first method that enables us to experience spiritual enlightenment on our own, and repeat it as many times as we want, once or more times a day.

Also, Satori Protocol is the first method that combines the release of emotional problems and the experience of spiritual enlightenment - in the same process.

In 2021, I returned to Australia, where I continue to conduct online individual and group seminars.