167 Wesly Feuquay: How Rapid Rewire Method Can Transform Your Consciousness From Saboteur to Sage

[00:00:00] CK: Welcome to Noble Warrior. My name is CK Lynn. This is where interview leaders, practitioners about their journey to master them mine to have greater joy, prosperity, and purpose. My guest today is known as the guy people call when nothing else works. He's a master trainer in spiritual technology, a accelerated evolution in emotional release systems.

As the co-founder of the Rapid Rewire Method and a former psychological science faculty at the Maricopa College, has been a pioneer in the psychology of, uh, consciousness and mature eco development. If you like what he has to say, go to rapid wire method.com to learn more about him. Welcome to Novo Warrior, Wesley Fu.

[00:00:47] Wesly: Hey, thank you CK It's really good to see you, brother.

[00:00:51] CK: So I'm gonna jump right into it cuz we don't have a lot of time. So jump in. First question, how do you differentiate your work from. That [00:01:00] very therapist.

[00:01:02] Wesly: Really good question. It's taken me a long time to be able to answer this. Um, but primarily I'm working under the auspices of a coach.

So I've been empirically trained. I have a master's degree in psychology and, um, I know all about that world. And what it comes down to is that the work I do now, we don't need to diagnose anyone, we don't need to label anyone. We don't need to put anybody in any kind of particular category. We can meet them where they are, ask about what sorts of problems, negative experiences, barriers to goals they're currently dealing with, and then with a future forward look, right, get them to a more empowered place than they were before.

So we don't need to engage any kind of narrative or story. Um, we don't need to look back into their past. We can meet a person exactly where they are today, find out how they want to be, remove the barriers that are preventing them from getting there. And then set action steps so they can arrive at that place, which they're more [00:02:00] empowered and they're giving their deepest gifts.

So I look at it that we're not doing anything curative. We're looking to allow people to transcend problems, negative experiences and barriers that they experience and get them returned back to their core self. And, uh, we don't want them identifying with anything. If anything, we want people in a de-identified state.

We certainly don't wanna put any extra identities or labels on them. So I think it's a much more free place to work and, um, and to treat people as though they are already whole and they're already complete. Right? We don't have to treat anybody like they're broken. So I see it very differently now than I used to.

And I, I think therapy tends to focus on categorization and diagnosis and coping, and we're showing people how to function and meeting 'em where they are. I love hearing that.

[00:02:50] CK: I mean, Um, to me, I mean, what you just said, the few keyword words that you said is coping the symptoms and then, [00:03:00] you know, putting people in different buckets versus you're already whole, you're not broken, you're already complete.

Let's start there and then, and then, um, de-identify from any kind of content, any kind of symptoms, any kind of things, neutralize it. Then we can start a new That's exactly what I heard. I really love that. Yeah.

[00:03:20] Wesly: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:03:23] CK: So is there any other things you want to say about traditional coaching, traditional therapies versus this way of looking at this?

Just to sort Yeah. Compare contrast. So then people, cuz it's very cloudy, you know, like, ah, yeah, I have a therapist already. Why do I need a coach? Or I have a coach. Why don't you a therapist? Right. You know, they, they play different roles. I'm not, Negating

[00:03:46] Wesly: we are, yeah, we're living in a time now where I think the roles are getting more differentiated, and I'm happy to see that.

I think for some time they were either very, very blurred, um, or they were put into very separate categories based on one way of [00:04:00] looking at it or another. Um, there is always gonna be a place for medicine. There is always gonna be a place for traditional psychotherapy. I believe that to be absolutely true.

Um, there's always gonna be organic brain disorders. There are always gonna be clinical disorders. There are always going to be, um, people suffering from brain damage. There's always going to be, uh, neurological disorders. There's gonna be developmental disorders. All this stuff is, we're always gonna need people that can do that.

However, let's say, You know, with a really conservative number, 85% of the population is healthily functioning, but they're not optimally functioning, right? And they're the ones making society go around. They're the ones going to work, they're the ones innovating, they're the ones you know who are making change.

They're the ones doing everything day in and day out to keep society on the rails. And what are we doing for their mental hygiene? What are we doing to allow them to get back to functioning when they're stuck? And how can we do that in an efficient, fast manner that doesn't require going through the medical system or going through diagnosis or taking a really long [00:05:00] time to see a change.

So, you know, psychoanalysis, although no longer all that in fashion, you know, you're looking at decades of therapy. Cognitive behavioral therapy on the fast end is probably, you know, six months to two years. And we don't have that kind of time anymore. The world is. You know, Vernon, where there's, there's a major shit show going on out there, and we've gotta get people back to functioning quickly.

And I think helping healthy people function healthier, help them get over the setbacks, the problems, the negative experiences, the disserving identities, the negative belief structures, and just saying, okay, cool, let's integrate that. Let's get you to a place where you see this completely differently. You can show up in a different way.

Get those people back out to functioning. We're gonna need that now more than ever. I just think that traditional therapy has been a bit slow and for all kinds of important reasons and all kinds of reasons that maybe, um, they should look at. Uh, but we can empower people in a much faster way, treat it non clinically.

[00:06:00] And for anybody that needs traditional structures, obviously we have that for them, or we can supplement it with something like this sort of coaching, right. And this sort of coaching that we're talking about, you and I, and then what we've been trained in, um, CK and I share, um, Quite a bit of training, uh, in, in this area of human potential growth and transformation.

So we're talking about getting people from one level of consciousness to another level of consciousness, right? Not just having empowering conversations, not just asking clever questions and sort of pumping people up, but actually showing people how to see reality in a completely shifted way so that they can approach what they want to get.

And there's a, there's, there's a place for that now, I think in society and therapy doesn't necessarily fit that bill. They're really interested in saying, Hey, listen, you're sick. You're always gonna be sick, and I think we can help you mitigate these symptoms, rather than looking at someone and saying, you can absolutely change and be [00:07:00] different and let's have you show up in a completely shifted way.

[00:07:04] CK: Yeah, I love that. The way I'll think about it, cuz I go to the gym every day, right? There's nothing wrong with me per se, but I do want to be more physically fit for me, falls into the category of. Mental fitness or conscious fitness, whatever you call this, right? Just how can we be more fit to deal with the uncertainties of life, the challenges of life.

And these are the tools that you can use to be more fit. So when larger and larger things that come as people here who are listening are leaders in their own rights, more and more responsibilities, more and more at stake, then they can be economists, they can be centered, they can be grounded when bigger and bigger challenges come their way.

Yeah. Similar to going to the gym.

[00:07:49] Wesly: That's right. Mental hygiene, mental fitness. Yeah.

[00:07:53] CK: So I love that you go right into what I wanted to ask you anyway, cuz my dream to talk to [00:08:00] people who, um, know a lot about instrumentation, know a lot about, um, consciousness, uh, development, know a lot about these type of psychospiritual processes, know a lot about plant medicine, so, Maybe we won't cover all of that today, but, you know, I, I, I love that you already touched upon state changes and stage change, state change, and stage changes.

Yeah. Can you just give people a little bit of a primer of this, you know, evolution of consciousness development?

[00:08:30] Wesly: Yes. Yeah. We could talk a long time on this and I'm gonna do my best. Right. And, uh, see if I can't sum it up. Uh, but states of consciousness aren't the same as stages of consciousness. So states of consciousness we go in and out of, they're temporary.

It's like weather states. Sometimes it's cloudy, sometimes it's sunny, sometimes it's partly cloudy, partly sunny. Um, states of awareness come and go and we're happy, and then we're not, and then we're hungry, and then we're not, and then we're sexually motivated, and [00:09:00] then we're not, and then we're crying, and then we're not, and then we're confused, and then we're not, you know, we're constantly moving through this.

Um, ever ebbing stream of consciousness. And so states are never permanent, they're always temporary. We've never been happy always and never shifted again. We've never been sad permanently and never had it break. So states come and go. And what's interesting about that is when we're in a state experience, we think, oh my God, this is gonna be forever.

You know, if it's an exalted state, you know, we think, oh my God, I'm never gonna come out of this. And if we're in a very despondent state, we think, oh my God, I'm never gonna get out of this. Um, but the truth is that we do stages of consciousness are permanent, uh, trait stages where we gain a level of meaning making that we didn't have prior.

And whenever we come awaken to that new level of meaning, making that new worldview, that new meaning making system, we have it. We don't digress From there, we can have a lower stage moment, but everything [00:10:00] that we've acquired up until that moment, everything we've learned, everything we've been awakened to.

Stays as a part of our access, we can, we can, we can draw on that and move forward. So our stages of consciousness, oh my gosh, there's so many different ways we could split it up and you could say, oh, there's first stage, second stage, and third stage where you could talk about colors of spiral dynamics.

Or you could talk about epoch that we've moved through. But in general, you can sort of say that those stages move from something that's very selfish and me oriented to then something that's much more embracive and we oriented or socio centric, rather than being ego-centric of the prior level. And then at third stage, it'll open up to say something being much more all of us oriented, right?

Where our circle of concern is about something much greater than those more narrow identifications. And then eventually there's probably even a fourth stage where we're concerned with all that is. Um, and again, there's all sorts of [00:11:00] different ways of slicing up that spectrum, but what's true about it is our consciousness evolves and there's a directionality to it, and it always moves to something more transcendent and inclusive than the level prior.

In a simple way, you can say that everything starts out from a basic constricted fear state, and from there it's always growing into more compassionate and abrasive states, right? Um, so each level is always transcendent, but it includes the level below it. And maybe we move from something, again, very, uh, tribal based to something very egocentric and, and me centered and, and power driven to then something much more traditional and collective, which then might yield to something more rational and reason based with much more multiplicity of truth being honored.

And then that shifts over. Uh, to understanding something much more sensitive and pluralistic and, and communal in nature. And then that'll [00:12:00] evolve to something even higher, which starts focusing on competency and, uh, and flex and flow and, you know, and absolute respect for all the levels that came prior.

And then there's levels even above that. So many ways we can say consciousness is unfolding, it is moving to more complex systems, and with that gives us a greater capacity to have a panoramic view of where we've come from. And when we do that, we're able to have much more tolerance. We're able to, uh, cross translate our speech, to talk to other levels of meaning making so we can be heard and be respected and, um, and welcomed right, by other value systems.

So anyway, yeah, lots of stuff there. First stage, second page. First stage would be like the model for today. I,

[00:12:47] CK: I, I have some nuanced questions I do want to ask you because in my mind, It's not permanent though. So this is my sort of, um, devil's advocate point of view, but I'm curious to know your thoughts.

It, it could [00:13:00] be, well, yes, I'm very hungry, or I'm very stressed and all of a sudden I'm DeVol devolving back to being ultra selfish, let's just say, right. Or so that's one. Cut. Another cut could be maybe I'm very enlightened in this area of, you know, faith or spirituality, but in the area of money, like I'm very, very devolved.

Can you say a little bit, you know, about the possible explanation to perspective? Yeah.

[00:13:25] Wesly: So it really has to do with that distinction. So let me get a, an analog real quick and then I'll see if I can't take those examples you gave me. Mm-hmm. So I just turned 50 recently. Well,

[00:13:35] CK: happy belated birthday.

[00:13:37] Wesly: Thank you so much.

Um, so I've been five, I've been 15, I've been 25, I've been 35, I've been 45, right? Mm-hmm. I've transcended and included my five year old ness. Right. Mm-hmm. But I'm not gonna ever lose that. I've transcended it. You know, I have been 25, right? And I've transcended that, but I include that [00:14:00] 25 ness. It's impossible for me to go back and be 25 again.

It's impossible for me to go back and be five years old again because of what I've awakened to the complexity of what I know that is not going to vanish. Could I have an immature moment? Yes. But that doesn't make me five years old again. That doesn't make me 25 years old again, right? So even though I may be having an immature moment, that doesn't mean that I lose the capacity that I've awakened to.

Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. Um, so if I gain a level of consciousness, if I move from something very traditionally minded with lots of black and white value systems, and I grow into my reason and my rationality and beginning to understand how, um, prediction and. You know, um, testing things work, and I, I don't have to rely anymore on faith any longer.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Once I've moved into that awareness, I don't lose that capacity. Right now, the way these [00:15:00] levels work is that they're not discreet hard levels. They're more like waves. And so I've got a center of gravity of consciousness. Mm-hmm. And in a weakened moment, in a tired moment, I'm probably gonna dip down 25% from where I came from and I'll have a lower moment.

And then in my really excited moments, in my energetic moments, I might be able to reach up 25% above my center of gravity and have access a little beyond where I am, maybe cognitively, for instance. But I've got a center of gravity that I kinda live in. Right. So we, we move up and it's more likely to say that we have moments, but we can have those moments because I've already lived through.

Where I've come from. Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. So if I'm climbing up a mountain and I traverse through 2000 feet and 3000 feet and 4,000 feet, if I'm at the 6,000 foot level, I own all the experiences at 5,000, 4,000, 3000 and 2000 feet, and I can vote on the reality of those [00:16:00] altitudes because I've traversed through there, right?

However, I haven't been to 7,000 or 8,000 or 9,000 feet. I haven't been to those territories yet. So I can't vote on the reality of that territory cuz I haven't been there yet. But when I'm at 6,000 feet, I still own all the reality and all the experience that comes right from having traverse those other levels.

So I don't just go back to 2000 feet and if you take me back to 2000 feet, I don't have suddenly amnesia of what it was like for me to traverse through four. Five and 6,000 feet of elevation. I still own that experience. Even though you put me back at 2000 feet temporarily, I still own the spectrum of awareness that I've already directly experienced.

Does that help a little bit?

[00:16:47] CK: Oh, for sure. Thank you for that. No, I, I really appreciate the different ways you talked about this. Um, so Victor Frankl's famous quote, I use a lot on this podcast is between stimulus and response, there's a space in that [00:17:00] space lies out, freedom and growth. What I'm hearing you say is, yes, as you traverse from 1000, 2000, 3000, 4,000 in that space, now you have options.

Oh, I want to be 25 or five, or whatever the thing. And then, and then you can pick and choose, you know, when you're sovereign, when you're have agency to pick the most, the one that's most appropriate. Is that an accurate reflection or? Absolutely.

[00:17:25] Wesly: Yeah. Yeah. And such a beautiful reminder of what he said there.

And a lot of our work, um, is influenced by his, his, his awakenings through his experiences. And I would say that it's our isness, our me ness. It's our, our fundamental de-identified consciousness that is in that space between stimulus and response. We are there.

[00:17:48] CK: So, so a practical thing, I was listening to Simon Sinek talking on the Diary of a CEO podcast.

He was recounting an event that he went to [00:18:00] Iraq or some, you know, middle East war zone. And then because of the circumstances happened there, he devolved to grabbing someone by the throat and said, you get me on that plane now. And then later on he felt really, really bad about, I'm not that person. I don't grab people by the throat and just yell at them to demand something.

So he feel bad about it. And certainly I would say that he's not the only one. When we devolve to our five year old self demanding for something, throwing tantrum for something, we often feel bad about that. So is there anything you wanted to say about that?

[00:18:36] Wesly: Yeah, it's circumstance driven. We can all be cast back to need to operate and respond to an environmental.

Um, an environmental request. And that is absolutely necessary, right? So remember, we, we've already traversed through these levels of consciousness as we've matured, right? We've [00:19:00] all gone from being little babies and being completely dependent, where the world was all about survival. And then there's the next level where we start understanding our immediate early sense of self.

But the world's also very magical, and we're making loose connections between things and, and tradition. Repetition are incredibly important to us. And then we move to a place where our actual ego integrity begins to develop, and then we move to something that's much more, um, community based and traditional.

And if the environmental circumstances are such that. The only thing left to respond with is that earlier level of meaning, making that earlier level of consciousness we're going to, and we need to be able to do that, right? So you might be a very compassionate man, and you've worked on yourself and you think that, you know, you'd not like to engage in any kind of violence or aggression, but I'm sure there's someone or something I could attack in your world.

I need [00:20:00] you to turn into a monster and stop me from doing that. You know, I don't want you looking, if, if I come over and I start, you know, uh, massacring your pet, I don't need you to sit back and go, he's just expressing himself. It, it's completely okay. No, I need you to jump in and kick my ass. I, you know, you need to be able to stop that, right?

So we have access to every level. So, like I said before, we transcend a level, but we include it. And that's a really important part about the evolution of awareness and consciousness is that when we leave a system, when we leave a level, we do transcend above it, but we include it, we take it with us, and we should be able to reactivate it again.

So yeah, if you put someone in a survival circumstance, all of a sudden it, the c, the, the environment is indicating I have got to take care of myself right now. This is a very dire moment. And someone's having a [00:21:00] first stage moment that they can have a first stage moment because they've already developed to second stage.

And if that has to be triggered, then that has to be activated. So we do have some choice. And I think we could probably say that his, his circumstances must have seemed very dire to him, and that's what brought it about if circumstances were less dire, he'd have more cognitive faculty to say, well, I won't wig out, but I'll be really firm with my request.

So the more dire the circumstances become, the stronger our response is gonna be. And we need that. We have to have that functionality. Otherwise, um, we could really harm ourselves or we could perish. Yeah.

[00:21:40] CK: I, I, by the way, I also just learn about it as I was doing research for our conversation. I didn't know that you were deeply involved in men's work.

In our men's work, we talked about different dimensions of what it means to be a man, right? Mm-hmm. Different archetypes, essentially. So the way that we talk about it is it's, it's [00:22:00] important not to just be one dimensional, oh, I'm only a saintly person. I'm only a comic, I'm only a, you know, sort of warrior archetype person, right?

The reality is we need to function in society in a very well balanced way, giving the specific situation. So I, I, I love what you said in my interpretation of what you said. It's important to basically cross train. You can mm-hmm. Freely bring out the ways of being as the situation requires the most appropriate in the moment.

[00:22:35] Wesly: Yeah. Yeah. You have it, right? Absolutely. Yeah. We have to have access to those capabilities if we were to dissociate from them. It can be really tragic, so. Yeah. Yeah. I'll,

[00:22:46] CK: um, how do you see the work, the kind of work that you do, spiritual development coach as well as men's work? Like, how do you see them play?

Compliment each other? Yeah.

[00:22:59] Wesly: Gosh, [00:23:00] they're, they're all in servitude to growth and awareness. I mean, everything to me eventually comes together, right? It, it all stitches into this particular experience that I'm having. Um, everything that I've been involved in the men's work, Being a professor of consciousness, now being, you know, one of the, the only trainer of trainers in the world of spiritual technology methods, um, my professional ballroom dancing career, it has all come together, um, in the unique offering where I'm able to see things in terms of, you know, masculine and feminine dynamics.

I'm able to understand how consciousness works. I'm understanding how we can make effective change with people's psychology. I'm understanding how the body works with all of this. How we connect as, as beings. Um, the importance of enlightenment. All these things are helping enrichen our, our human experience.

And right now people are [00:24:00] more aware of and interested in their total functioning than they probably ever have in history. Right. And so being able to speak to people at different levels, being able to offer them different solutions to their problems, being able to show them perspectives that they weren't previously aware of.

I need to draw on all of my history in order to do that. You know, some of it's my collegiate training, some of it is my somatic training, some of it is my artistic training. Some of it's my spiritual awakening. Um, you know, endeavors like it all comes together. Right.

[00:24:37] CK: Can you, can you give us maybe a concrete example like, Hey, I never, you know, millionaire would draw my borrowing dancing, but this person really resonated with it, so I use it as a way to elevate it his, I don't know, spiritual development or help him get rid of or neutralize his inner saboteurs.

Any examples like that?

[00:24:57] Wesly: Yeah, I mean, a hundred percent. I mean, what if I'm working with [00:25:00] somebody and. There seems to be some sort of a block, and I realize, oh, the block is like, everything in their experience is just like right here. And they're completely detached and dissociated from their physical body.

They don't know, they can't feel their hip joint, right. They don't really understand if the spine is straight. They're not really understanding that they're, they're constantly, you know, in this position with their head or something like that. So to see people's bodies is important. I had a teacher once, um, give me this little way of remembering that the, the, the issues are in the tissues, right?

Mm-hmm. And so we're not detached from our body. Our psychology is not detached from our body. And if we look at a four quadrant model, we've got the body, we've got the mind, we've got relationships, and we have the environment. And those things are not mutually separated. They are integrated. You make a change in one area, you see a change in another.

When we process people, ck you know, this, their overall facial structure [00:26:00] changes. They sit up a little taller. The head is held a little higher, right? And we go, oh yeah, I made a change in their psychology. So yeah, I'm seeing a change in the body. Well, it goes the other way. If we make postural changes, if we make shifts in the body, if we can get the body to move in a more free way, we get the mind to open up in a more free way.

We see the relationship between them and another person open up in a more free way. We see that how they're interacting with the environment is opening up in a more freeway. So those roads go in all directions. Right. And yeah, I mean, I am drawing on that little, little things like, Hey, I noticed, you know, the, the process is going in a, in a direction.

I don't like it to go and I notice that they're processing like this. You know, I'll ask that person, Hey, go ahead and sit up for me. Lift your head up. You know, make a little tap on your, on your thigh. Can you feel that? Yeah, I'm feeling that right. These things are very important [00:27:00] when I do group work. Um, we do a lot of workshops in Boulder, Colorado at the Star House, and bringing movement into the day has been really important and.

We need the, uh, the workshop participants to feel comfortable and trusting with each other. So midday on the second day, we do a little merengue with like the whole group, and we'll bring in some Latin dancing. I love it. And get them to begin to sort of soften up. So not only can I sit across from you with some distance, but it's okay to touch you.

It's okay to move you. It's okay for me to have the role of, of leader and for that person to have the role of respondent, right, of follower and just kind of getting them to understand like, oh wow, there's a greater freedom. How do I work with my boundaries? So these things are always influencing each, influencing each other.

Also, I'm a teacher at heart, so, um, in every endeavor I've ever found myself in, I always end up being a [00:28:00] teacher in some way. So when I'm teaching dance, I'm bringing in psychology, I'm bringing in consciousness. People think they wanna learn some chacha and I can't keep out of it. You know, talking about existence in the world and their place in it.

So these things for me are always cross, cross, influencing each other.

[00:28:18] CK: Mm. I love it. I, I, I love that you are such a master of your knowledge, your domain, that you can, um, essentially draw different things out of different domain. And this is actually something that I share with my audience, my students, that they're traditionally, there are four stages of, um, skill acquisition.

I added five, so I'll, I'll share with you and you let me know if you concurrent. Yeah. Right. So you got the, um, unconscious incompetence, conscious incompetence, conscious competence and unconscious competence, and then finally unconscious integration. So what I love to hear is not only your [00:29:00] unconscious, unconsciously competent in one area, you, you're not bringing different things and then bring a mixed to the unconscious integration.

Yeah.

[00:29:09] Wesly: Yeah, that sounds cool. I love the fact that you've added integration onto that. That's, that's absolutely brilliant. It's all about

[00:29:15] CK: integration. I, I used to be someone who thinks everything is separated. The mind, the body, the heart. Oh, you know, spirit was nonexistent. Uh, so I thought they were just compartmentalize.

But you know, ultimately what I realized, they're super positioned on top of each other. They're, everything impact everything

[00:29:35] Wesly: else. Yeah. Everything has a cross correlate. It's all connected. So how did you

[00:29:42] CK: go from studying inter growth theory with Kim Wilberg being a professor there, teaching classes to accelerate evolution, spiritual technologies?

Okay.

[00:29:53] Wesly: Yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll make that story as short as I can. So, uh, I was [00:30:00] teaching psychology at Maricopa Colleges in Arizona, and about halfway through that tenure, I was able to create a course on the psychology of, um, consciousness and mature ego development. And that was my way of bringing in a class where I could teach integral theory to a bunch of undergrads.

Now, integral theory is a very complex, multifaceted way of looking at the universe and everything, and self, and I thought, oh my God, okay, how am I gonna do that? And, uh, taking a page out of Integral Theory, I remembered that there's no substitute for direct experience. So I thought to myself, okay, cool, I'll take 'em into these territories of consciousness that'll get them excited, and then they'll want to talk about what the hell happened?

Great. Okay. How am I gonna do that? Well, shit, I can't bring in compounds or chemicals or drugs into the classroom. I'm sure they would love it if I would slide 'em some L s D or some mushrooms under the desk and I can't do that. So I'm okay, how am I gonna solve that problem? So [00:31:00] I knew that there were all these other methods of evoking states of consciousness that did not involve chemicals or compounds as a portal.

So I set about on a very long journey of learning dozens and dozens of evocation methods of awareness that didn't use drugs as portals. And of course, the state experience is the same, right? So, so often we, we confuse the portal for the experience, um, but the state experience is ever present no matter how we get there.

And so I was able to bring that into the form of the class and it became a really big success. And we had standing room only for many, many years. The kids came back and they just stopped registering after a while and just sat in. It was pretty remarkable. I. Toward the end of that tenure, um, I decided to move into a nonprofit sector where I could offer the same programming, but do it for the community at large.

Um, and I was sick of taking attendance at school and right about the same time, I got [00:32:00] connected with our mutual mentor, Satya and Raja, who introduced me to, um, what he was calling accelerated evolution. And I was like, wow, this is amazing. This is using states of consciousness to create level change, meaning making in people.

That was like the holy grail. I mean, that sounded almost categorically impossible. How could we use state changes to evoke permanent level shift changes of worldview and meaning making for people? I said, oh my God, I've got to learn this. So I went on a long apprenticeship, um, with Satan, which eventually led me to doing a direct apprenticeship with the creator of the work, JRA Lavinsky from former Yugoslavia, uh, in Serbia.

He lived in Belgrade. And I was really proud to become a trainer of that work through him also being on, uh, the Accelerated Evolution faculty, which is where I went, met you. And so I was really enjoying being a teacher of all these methods. I was using it in our men's work. I was using it with my, my private clientele.

It was [00:33:00] influencing the direction of the nonprofit. Um, and then fast forward just about a year and a half ago, uh, we lost Gira Slosky. He died complications of a stroke. And just a few months prior to his death, I finished my long-term apprenticeship with him and became a trainer of trainer in this work.

And so, myself and only a handful of other people are qualified now to keep this legacy work moving forward and to train future generations in, in how to bring about these changes using these methods. So, um, yeah, I, the, the entry point was consciousness science and then learning about, uh, all the remarkable people who were using these spiritual technology.

Methodologies and, um, you know, aligning with them, befriending them, being mentored by them eventually led me to being where I am now. And right now, I'm one of the most accolade individuals in the world in all these modalities. So I get to work with Vladimirovich, who you recently spoke to. [00:34:00] Um, I'm still, uh, a welcomed member into the accelerated evolution community.

I've got my own rapid rewire offerings now, and I've got a whole, um, beautiful lineage of people that I've helped through some of the most, uh, difficult blocks that they've ever experienced in their lives. So it's a, it's a good time for me to, to be, um, giving my deepest gift to the world because I get to see changes that are unlikely and unexpected in a lot of different ways.

So, through consciousness science, I arrived here and it's a great place for me to be. It's a good fit for me as a person.

[00:34:34] CK: Well, you're definitely a man with many gifts. It's salsa, also dancing included. Uh, I, I gotta ask you a question before I talk about your particular method, uh, rapid wire method. Why do you think that?

Um, because these methods are magical, and I use that word very specifically. Yeah. Because it, it just allows, you know, let's say years of block mental [00:35:00] limiting beliefs, whatever the thing is, and just remove it as if it's magic. Right. So, so I'm curious to know from your perspective, as a teacher, as a practitioner, as a student, why isn't it more proliferated in the world?

[00:35:16] Wesly: Oh my gosh. You mean this work? Why, why is the work

[00:35:19] CK: well known technologies, these techniques?

[00:35:23] Wesly: Yeah. I scratch my head over this ck just about every single day. I don't have a great answer. I, I think the easiest answer is that, We all who are really interested in this and have taken this on, I think we're all a little bit early to the party and that we are the pioneers here before this catches on in some larger way.

Um, right now the temperature of the times is going in the opposite direction of what we've found to be true. So we're, we've got, uh, a society that's very interested now in [00:36:00] identifying with something. Our work is all about de-identifying with something, right? Learning how to operate and show up in the world from a de-identified state, not a more entrenched identified state.

Um, and the funny thing is, and this will be kind of controversial for me to say, but I think people are still right now very addicted to suffering. I think they're addicted to victimhood. I think they're addicted to story. I think they're addictive to a particular spin. On their narrative and right now that gets people attention or they not get attention, or that gets them into something or that gets 'em out of something.

So I think we're all a little early to the party and I don't think the world has suffered enough yet to want it to end. I don't think it's hurt bad enough for for us to say ouch. I think we're in a little bit of a sadistic time. We think the pain feels good, and, uh, we're not entirely ready to let go. So that's my sort of surfacey answer, you know, as we're all a little bit early to the party.

Um, and other than [00:37:00] that, it's, it's been a real quandary for me why this doesn't catch on in a bigger way. The only other thing I might say is, um, a lot of us still come from generations where we were very, very much taught explicitly and implicitly that something needs to be hard to be real. And one of the features of this work is it isn't very hard.

It takes very complex, hardcore problems and very easily untangles them. And I think that that's hard for people to swallow sometimes. I think in a weird way, they want it to be a little bit more difficult, you know? And, uh, and, and, and somehow that means something to them. I think they make a connection like, well, maybe it wasn't such a big after all, cuz they got rid of it so big, you know, so easily or something.

Um, so there's some interesting features to our work and I, I, I have not been able to crack that nut, you know, and there's been, you won't know all the same people. I know there are some very, very, very intelligent people trying to get [00:38:00] this work out into a larger exposure. And, um, it just, the combination hasn't clicked yet.

Do

[00:38:07] CK: you think it's, because obviously TM is proliferated quite a bit and there are other works, you know, they're really, really trying to simplify further. Do you think, is it, is it the complexity of the techniques or do you think it's more just the articulation, the packaging around it?

[00:38:24] Wesly: Um, I don't think it's the complexity.

I think everything's really simple. Um, we have not found any way that's sexy talk about this or package this. And my big worry is that whenever we or a person we don't know yet figures out how to make it sexy, they don't have to be watered down a little bit. And I think a lot of us are purists. I think a lot of us early people.

Really love it for exactly how it is. And we understand it in a, in a very pure way. And it might get watered down a little bit when it finally becomes sexy, but we don't have very many ways [00:39:00] of talking about it that aren't locked down in some way. And, um, I think it, it makes it hard for us to communicate about it.

The other thing too is you have to experience it. Mm-hmm. And we just don't have enough time gone by. So let me give you an example what I mean by that. Everyone assumes that they know what hypnosis is, whether that they've been hypnotized or not. And we're just in a lucky place where the word hypnosis has been around for a hundred or more years.

You know, or the word mesmerized, which comes from a person's name of all things. And we just sort of assume we know what that means because it's been around for so long and, and we think we've been shown what that involves. But if you said to somebody, so how does hypnosis work? What are you doing when you hypnotize somebody?

And it would be very difficult for them to explain it to you, but they would very happily show you. So with hypnosis it's like, it's in the popular lexicon and we just sort of go, oh yeah, yeah, I know what that's like. And we just assume that we all know what it is [00:40:00] and we just don't have enough time right now with this work where it's moved into some sort of secular popular understanding and we don't have a sexy name for it.

Um, and until we sort of figure out what that's going to be, and I personally think it's going to have to be a brand new word, just like hypnosis was a brand new word where psychiatry was a brand new word. Um, and we're, or we're gonna have to find some sort of really, you know, catchy acronym or something like that.

And then the moment we do that, it'll probably take off. Also, I think we need to have had some prominent people experience it and maybe begin to put it. Out into the collective understanding a little bit. So maybe a very, uh, a person with a lot of notoriety could help mm-hmm. In that way, you know, and begin to, to allow people to talk about it.

So, yeah, it, it is, um, the nut I try to crack every single day. [00:41:00] Got it.

[00:41:00] CK: I, I do have a personal question now I want to ask you. This is more technical for whoever listening. Let's see if you relate to this. Okay. So, when I have a charge or a issue that's very clear, let's say, I don't know, somebody broke into my car very clear.

Like I have a, you know, I can deal with that very easily, but often there is a low grade annoyance. It's kind of like a cloud. There's not a clear idea why just kind of in a bad mood and it's, the charge is like one or two out of 10. So, but it sucks energy away from that. So it's for, for me, that's the, that's actually more challenging than the nine and 10 because nine and 10, I know how to deal with that.

The one and the twos. So do you have any tactical suggestions for me? How to conquer that concretize, that cloud of Yeah. Negativity. Absolutely. It's kind of there. It's not really there.

[00:41:56] Wesly: Yeah. Tackle that with, with a, um, [00:42:00] identity integration protocol. So when things are resistant that way and they're just kinda low grade, you can definitely bet that it's having something to do with how we see things.

It's coming through a lens. And so to work with the stuck identity there, to work with the identity that's charged, to work with the, the part of you that's wanting a particular goal, but feeling thwarted. By dealing with it prior to the charge that arises. And that's how I think about it, is that identities happening prior to emotional charge.

And so to integrate the stuck identity, like with the Integra Advanced or any of the other Integra systems by Vladimirovich, um, that's how I would absolutely approach that particular issue. So rather than looking at it like, oh yeah, my car got stolen and I'm really rageful. Mm-hmm. Man, there's just something about the world that's just not settling with me.

Right. Okay, cool. That's much more having to do with a particular point of view that has to do with perspective. And so [00:43:00] by integrating that identity right, and the things that are surrounding that identity would be the best way to, to work with that. Cool. So,

[00:43:09] CK: yeah, thank you for that. I'm gonna try that on.

Thank you. So let's go into your method. So what's, what is your particular method and how's that different than let's, yeah. So the previous ones that. Right,

[00:43:21] Wesly: right. So, um, when I branched off to do my own thing, one of the things that was important to me was not only to keep presenting this work to a large array of practitioners, coaches, doctors, counselors, you know, uh, to give it to all of them, but I wanted to give some sort of basic understanding of integral theory so that it's like the underlying blueprint that's holding the whole thing, that it's integrally informed.

Not that on the surface anybody can really see it, but I wanted to build into the structure an integral approach, some sort of integral, [00:44:00] transformative, um, lattice or model that I could present it with. And that way I could scale it to my crowd, right? I could move on an operating system. It had an operating system.

So, you know, I'm really well versed in the modalities and those are the intellectual property and the absolute genius of the people who have created those who were all blessed to have been touched by, um, you know, these yugoslavians, uh, consciousness scientists. And so I'm really great at curating and improving those methods.

Um, but I think it's in my presentation of, you know, having been a college professor, having an integrally informed framework, being really skilled at these things, I just understand 'em in a unique way. I said, okay, cool. You know, how am I gonna ball that together? And so my colleague, Stephanie Quang and myself have been creating what we're calling the rapid rewire method.

And it's just, it's, it's Wesley's spin on how I want to teach that and how I [00:45:00] want to package that, and how I wanna layer it out so that somebody has a trajectory of learning it, where they truly become masterful at it. Rather than being a tinkerer, you know, and, and I want everyone that we empower with those tools to feel like, hey, I can go out and make effective change with myself, with the people I care about, with the community that I live in, or even society.

And so the rapid rewire method is our offering, um, about how we train. A coach or how we train an individual interested in their own personal journey to either overcome, uh, psycho-emotional issues or work on actualization and growth and or take on full-blown spiritual awakening and understanding deep mission and purpose.

And so I see things always on a developmental spectrum, right? So that we go from waking up to growing up to showing up and the program can support that, and that we can apply it for [00:46:00] either psycho-emotional relief or growth or spiritual awakening that we can apply it to self culture and nature. And so all these geeky things I'm saying in threes have everything to do with, with integral structure, you know, and so that everything can cross translate to each other and we can get in diagnose where somebody's at, find out where they want to go and get them to that place, whether it's an individual working on their problems or it's a coach wanting to be able to, you know, do some sort of transformative technique.

With people's consciousness. So yeah, it is my mixture of integral theory with these amazing, uh, legacy techniques that have been passed down to us, spun in with, you know, everything else that I come from for my educational world. And I like being a teacher and I like being a motivator. I like being, uh, an advocate and it's, it's really an honor for me to awaken people.

So we get to do that on that journey. And I like how we've done it. [00:47:00] How,

[00:47:00] CK: um, what kind of people resonate with it the most based on all of the students that you've taught so far? And someone who just like really gets it, not on the intellectual basis, but on the visceral basis, on the spiritual basis. It's just like, this is me.

I am, yeah. Wanting to say these words, but Wesley, you said it better. I'm so loving this. So like, what kind of.

[00:47:24] Wesly: I can never predict who those people are. I don't know. I can't see them. They, they reveal themselves for sure. Again, I think we're early to the party ck I I think right now we, we having a hard time predicting the kind of person.

And what I can tell you though is it's the people who understand that there is a souls calling within them. It's the people who can intuitively go, oh, right, okay, this is answering my questions. This has given me the language I didn't have before. You're empowering me with a way of communicating that [00:48:00] I didn't previously have.

When people are connected to that, I think that they're very, very interested in our work. Um, the more. Uh, analytically minded people tend to have a little bit more difficulty with it. Um, some of the more pluralistically sensitively, um, egalitarian minded individuals can, can see it as a bit arrogant sometimes.

Um, the fundamentally minded people that come from traditional systems and religions and whatnot are a little bit afraid of it, you know? But when somebody has that, that connection to themself and the kind of person that's always saying, you know, I'm not sure I want to stop growing. Those seem to be the kind of people that take to this most readily, whether they be a coach or even just a participant to help get themselves unstuck.

I think those of us who love learning, I think because something happens when you go through a protocol, when you have somebody facilitate, you learn something about yourself, [00:49:00] you awaken to another thing that you didn't see before. It's never the same trip, right? I mean, you know this, you've had. Hundreds of these moments of being processed.

Right. And every single time it's like, oh, you awaken to another layer. And when you're the kind of person that enjoys that, why wouldn't you want more of it? Hmm. Yeah. It's those

[00:49:23] CK: people. Yeah. Thank you for that. I really appreciate it. Um, Ashley brings up to that question of the stage change, the state change versus stage change.

I want to double clicking on what you said about permanent change, cuz in your, on your website talking about permanent change and so forth. It is, my experience is it is not necessarily permanent until I practice it enough, until, until I normalize this. But that's my understanding. You are the master trainer.

I'm curious to know your point of view. Do I have, you know, can you nuance that a little bit for me?

[00:49:59] Wesly: [00:50:00] Yeah, it comes in gradations. There is, there's, I think there's being awakened and informed, and then there's becoming embodied. And that is, again, along this spectrum, right? Where when we, when we're fused with something, we're all balled up with it.

And then there's a differentiation phase, and then there's a transcendence phase, right? So we're always going in that order. And the first thing we have to be is initiated. We have to be awakened. There's just this first moment of like, oh, here I am. And that doesn't go away. You don't go back to sleep. But then if you continue on the journey, then okay, it's not good enough any longer to just be informed by it.

Now you gotta do something with it. You have to actually, you have to work it, right? You have to begin to embody it. And then once being embodied, then you have to show up as that. Then you have to give that gift. Then you have to offer that as part of what and who you are. So again, we're [00:51:00] dealing with that ascension from wake up to grow up to show up.

Where waking up is the initial moment where, oh, I just got here. Okay, cool. But you can't do much with it yet. And then there's that maturing phase, right, where you begin to own it and okay, yeah, I kind of got it all right, this is me. I'm not having to practice it anymore. Now it's just kind of my way, and that isn't good enough either.

Then you have to put it into servitude, right? And that's the showing up phase. Then you, you have to then make effective change because of what you've mastered. So I look at it in that way. There's an initiation phase where, okay, cool, I just woke up to it. Then I have to own it, and then I have to give it.

And then eventually that cycle will start over again. So that's how I would answer that question. So is the change permanent? Yes. It just comes in these gradations of waking up to growing up to showing up initiation to maturity, to service.

[00:51:58] CK: So, [00:52:00] um, I wanna make it personal so that way people listening can, instead of just conceptual, they can actually say, oh, now I know what, what C came is, and I'm gonna use a comparison.

It's definitely not appropriate, but I think people would appreciate. So recently I started taking on cold showers. In the beginning it was more of a responsibility. Yes, it sounds really good, it's good for my body, but it's a lot of pushing energy, right? Like, I basically gripped my teeth through it. And then recently I realized like, okay, why am I doing this?

I'm doing this to, um, to optimize my energy. So I started paying attention to how good I feel afterwards. I may not feel good in the moment, but I feel amazing, you know, sets up my day really early. I feel amazing. It's good for my body. I look good afterwards. All that good stuff, right? So now my relationship with cold shower has shifted from, I really don't want to do it to first thing in the morning.

Let's go right? Sets up my day. So is this similar to that [00:53:00] where, um, there's awareness of these type of practices and then eventually it evolved to, all right, forget about the ego speaking to me, resisting it. Forget about the limbic resistance, uh, limbic friction as Andrew, who Huberman would say, let's just go towards, you know, almost having a devoted relationship to it.

Mm-hmm. Again, I'm putting words in your mouth. These are my interpretation. I'm curious to

[00:53:27] Wesly: know. Yeah. I mean, the, the example you're giving me is a little bit different than, than say, A level of me making, but I can make it work for you. So you, you, you're waking up to an idea. You're waking up to a habit.

You're saying declaratively, okay, yeah, I'm gonna do this. Right. All right. That has to be followed up with you actually doing it. So you, you have to move away from, okay, I think it's a good idea. Yeah, I'm gonna do it to the actual physicality of shower, cold water, plunge, you know, experience. And [00:54:00] so then you're in the throes of actually, in the practice you've taken on that form, right?

You've taken on that injunction. You're doing it. That's the middle phase. Then there's gonna be a phase where having done it, the shifts, transformations, and perspective shifts that you gain as a result of taking on that practice. You then have to put back into the system, back into your message. Back into the world when you are communicating with others.

So whatever it is that you're gleaning from that, that it becomes part of your style and your way, and you are a transformed man because of having taken on the injunction, right? Mm-hmm. So there's, there's good, so right now it sounds like, yeah, you're in the middle of it. You're doing it, you're going through the practice, it, you know, you, you, you're learning to endure that, and that's cool, but it's only gonna stay cool until whatever the [00:55:00] fruits of that are and how it changes your constitution, how it changes your way of being in the world.

Then when you come off different, when you have greater depth of tolerance, compassion, vision, patience, and steadiness as a result of having to do that, that's where the, that's where the gain's going to be. When it actually transforms you, you know? Mm-hmm. So there's something, I mean, I'm assuming we, we can loosely talk about Wim Hoff as being an influencer in this area.

Absolutely. Whoever he is now is the transmission of all that previous practice. Right. He's the living embodiment of here's a way of living, here's a perspective in the world that I was able to get to by this way. Right. And, and letting other people know there's something else here for you as well. So his living transmission is like that third stage [00:56:00] expression of that.

Right. Whereas somebody who's just early taking on the practices doesn't have that command or can animate that magic of communication in the same way he has because they just haven't put in. The experience yet. And then when your experience begins to mount up for you, your transmission, your ability to animate your message will become much stronger.

And so that's that third stage waiting for you.

[00:56:27] CK: What, uh, going forward, what do you hope to transmit? You know, when you're at that third stage, you're a living embodiment of the rapid, you know, oh my God.

[00:56:41] Wesly: So I have already reconciled in my heart that I probably will never see the actual direct fruits of my efforts at this time.

So I have dedicated my time and my work and my love to, you know, the kids of the kids, of the kids, [00:57:00] of the kids. Down the road, you know, in our future and setting up a place where they can live lives that are awakened, that are safe, that are connected, that are full of love. And I may not see the direct fruits of my efforts in my lifetime, but I'm okay with that.

I'm here for generations down the road so that the possibility of awakening, the possibility of moving from stage one to stage nine or whatever might be beyond that, is an easier, more facilitative trajectory for anyone to have if that's what they wanted. So I'm here to wake people up. I'm here to show people that things don't have to be the way that they look like on the surface.

I'm here to liberate people. I want to give the message that the emotional turmoils that we endure can now be optional. That hard work around everything doesn't necessarily have to be true. And that we can do very remarkable things with our hearts and our minds and our bodies that we didn't think were possible.

And, um, I'm here for [00:58:00] that. I'm here for people to make shifts and changes. I'm here to wake people up and, um, that's my mission right now. And I've been given a really beautiful tool to show people how to do that. Yeah,

[00:58:11] CK: well, I mean, to gently remind you, cuz you mentioned w h Wim in many ways. He's a very charismatic person.

He's this wild man and, you know, plays ukuleles and going to Mount Ki and Kilimanjaro and in shorts without shoes. But it's very inspiring in his very eccentric kind of a way, right? Like, I love, like the way that he pushes the human limits. So in many ways we are looking at you as the, you know, the embodiment of your work.

So, so it's just, uh, you know, you're a Renaissance man with a lot of different skills, who lives a really heart center life, and, uh, I really appreciate you.

[00:58:55] Wesly: Thank you, ck I appreciate that. Matt's a a welcome compliment. Thank you [00:59:00] so very much.

[00:59:01] CK: You're very welcome. So, I want to take a hard right before we land the plane, so to speak.

Let's do it. As you know, as you know, uh, AI tools are on the rise. I am personally very excited about it, but I'm a, you know, me, I'm an optimist. Right? So what's your point of view as a practitioner? Are you, are you cautious? Are you like scared? Are you like, obviously like me, kind of somewhere in the middle?

Where are you?

[00:59:31] Wesly: Okay. My, my first response is that I'm really confused, which probably goes to some sort of fear, but I'm sure it's because I just don't understand it enough. Okay. The second thing that hits me is that whenever we have a major shift like this in society, we always think, oh my God, that's it.

There goes the downfall, but there's always fruits that come from that. You know, like you and I spend some time in Hawaii right after those major eruptions in that area on the big island, [01:00:00] right? And we're traveling out there on the lava and there's all this disruption. But then out of that lava rock are these little plants, you know, just as bright green and as alive and as vital, you know, full of vitality as they possibly could be.

There's always something coming up out of what's churned up, right? And so this will be no different from that. You know? Dynamite is not necessarily a bad thing. It's like in, in whose hands is it? You know, dynamite in the hands of somebody who wants to advocate for violence is, is gonna do that. Dynamite in the hands of somebody trying to build a bridge is a different thing.

There's nothing wrong with the dynamite, you know, it's, it's, it's what level of consciousness is wielding it. And so we're gonna have to answer that question as we enter, enter into the wild, wild west of this new technology, you know, in, in whose hands is it and what are we doing with it? And um, [01:01:00] however, call me a human and an optimist, but we're always gonna need something human because I think one of the things we don't talk enough about that's uniquely human is that capacity to absolutely pivot, to do something incredibly different and random that wasn't expected, whether that be within the individual or whether that be.

In our development of consciousness or awareness or something like that. So there's something beautifully unpredictable about humanness and so many of the most amazing things, um, that have ever come to us, um, that have made our lives a better place, have come in the form of dream. They have come in the form of insight.

They have come in the form of just doing nothing and suddenly having a vision. And, uh, that will remain an incredibly important and unique human endeavor moving forward. And we're gonna need that. Maybe we'll need it more than ever. So yeah, to make [01:02:00] cute predictions and to make things easier for ourselves and to come up with all sorts of interesting arrays of things that, accommodations that we didn't think about that'll be entertaining.

Um, but there's something that will not be able to be replaced in the form of the human vision and the human's capacity to surprise ourselves. And, uh, yeah, that's, that's

[01:02:22] CK: my take on it. You actually mentioned a word vision, I want to double click on, on that. Um, is there any, is there any processes, anything you recommend as a way to foster or clear house, you know, to Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, anything you wanna say about that? Before I got back on the AI

[01:02:44] Wesly: stuff, one of my, one of my favorite modalities that we use when I was in the college, and something I still use today, it's something I give to my, my clients, is using brainwave entrainment, actually entering into deep fat estates or deep [01:03:00] alpha states, which are associated with vision, creativity, you know, um, relaxed alertness, problem solving.

Just entering into that capacity for ourselves, aligning with that particular frequency of brainwave activity. I mean, that's really all you need. Just immerse ourselves in that state, whether it's by a natural focus of being involved in something that has a lot of meaning for us, or using something like a, like a brainwave entrainment technology to induce that state of consciousness.

I mean, that's the easiest way to get there. And then also when we go through process work, we're entering into oftentimes in the middle of it, some sort of a deep alpha or theta state as well. So, um, yeah, that's my favorite way of getting there. And I think that's a great way to invoke it and to begin to practice it.

And, you know, if we don't have it naturally by our own drive, you know, for something that we really, really feel called to do, then, then we can, we can turn on that kind of, uh, [01:04:00] assistance.

[01:04:00] CK: I'm gonna try the brain way, uh, entrainment thing, I haven't really. Done that very much, but you know, it's, I

[01:04:08] Wesly: have some, I'll send 'em your

[01:04:09] CK: way.

Oh, amazing. No, I really appreciate that. I mean, the way Yeah, we'll come back on a jam about that someday. Yeah. The, the way I'm doing it right now is to enter into the plural state, and that's been really helpful. Um, but at the same time, I'm an instrumentalist I heart, so if there's ways to help me track my brain waves, I'd certainly do more of that.

[01:04:30] Wesly: Yeah. Categorically lerma would be more like, um, a witness state, so getting close to like delta, Delta wave activity. Okay. Um, and a lot of creativity, problem solving, vision insight is all happening like in deep alpha and early theta. So I'll send some stuff your way and you can play with it and see what you think about it.

[01:04:51] CK: Yeah. Coming back to AI tools real quick, to me, AI supports us to go from ideation to manifestation. [01:05:00] You know, I may not have the skills or the language to describe this vision, you know, in my true state. But with Mid Journey now I can say, this is what I mean. Or, uh, with chat, g p t similar, I may not have the, you know, linguistic skills to articulate exactly the ins and outs of my framework or the plural state or this and that.

But now with this I can say, this is what I'm trying to tell you. So, yeah, that's cool. Okay. Yeah. For me, this is a forcing function for us, be more human, and I'm excited about that. And, and the way I also see it personally is, um, this a crisis, right, of our identity as humans, but with crises there's danger and there's also an opportunity, opportunity.

So, so in my opinion, this, um, allows us to explore new opportunities beyond what we're currently capable of. So, I'm an optimist, this is my point of view.

[01:05:59] Wesly: That's cool. Well, you [01:06:00] made me think May, maybe a way I can think about it is it could give us the ability to be like a bionic tongue or a bionic eye, you know, or a, a bionic pen where it allows us to do something even more extraordinary than our current basic capacity.

So yeah, I can stay open to that. That's pretty cool.

[01:06:20] CK: Anyways, man, uh, is there any last things for people who are listening to you, if they don't remember nothing at all, this is one thing that they ought to remember? What's the thing they should remember?

[01:06:35] Wesly: That is absolutely possible right now to do two things. One is you can live without struggle and turmoil. And two, it is absolutely possible to discover who you are and how that's differentiated from what you are. And that that can be home-based, that can be center, and you can reorient your entire existence from that place.

And it's worth it, and we all [01:07:00] have to do it. And so right now, today, you do not have to spend a very long time to discover how to live without emotional turmoil. And you can absolutely have an awakening that's permanent and articulate, and will f forever last you through eternity that you know who you are.

[01:07:20] CK: Beautiful way ti uh, Wesley, just really thank you for all the wisdom, all the experiences and all the help that you've given me over the years. You know, uh, I really, really appreciate everything that you do and, uh, I'm, I'm, I have. Great. Um, hope that, you know, will be a woff esque like figure, really embodying the rapid wire method.

[01:07:46] Wesly: Thank you. Thank you CK It was really good connecting again, and this was, this was really great for me too today. Thank you brother. Beautiful.