196 Merhav Mohar: From World Championship to Clarity: Rebuilding Identity Beyond Success

[00:00:00] ck: Welcome to Noble Warrior. My name is CK Lin. This is where I interview entrepreneurs and practitioners about how they move from finite games to infinite games and pursue a life of greater purpose and joy.

[00:00:13] ck: Today I have Mahath Mohar. He's a multi time Israeli martial artist, boxing champion who WBC light middleweight world championships. He has starred in his own biographical film. He has dazzled audiences on Dancing with the Stars. Welcome to Noble Warrior, Mahath.

[00:00:36] Merhav: Welcome. It's nice to be here.

[00:00:38] ck: So let's just paint a picture for my audience.

[00:00:39] ck: You know, let's talk a little bit about your 15 years of being undefeated as a professional fighter first, tell us a little bit about what that journey is like to be undefeated world champion.

[00:00:54] Merhav: Wow. First, just to get the details, exactly correct. I got all the way to a world [00:01:00] championship.

[00:01:00] Merhav: I fought for a world championship. Well, we can maybe talk about that a bit later, but something very dramatic happened in that fight. I did not win that fight, just to get the details correctly. That's a very deep, interesting question that can be each and every one of the aspects of it could be spoken about.

[00:01:17] Merhav: In short, I started martial arts, at the age of 12. I immigrated to Israel, from Kenya, where I grew up. I was born in Nigeria, and then later moved on to Kenya. And when I moved to Israel, just as my mother was like, you know, let's find something to do with the son. Let's give him an after school program so he can find friends.

[00:01:39] Merhav: I was sent to karate because girls got sent to ballet and guys got sent to karate or something like that. Maybe I was just more inclined. And immediately I found myself in that surrounding. The main interesting and the main outlet was, that [00:02:00] school and the school system.

[00:02:02] Merhav: I strongly believe is a system that if we could put it on a positive note can be adjusted and improved more than it is today. And that's to say the least. Being a child, an international child, I didn't speak the language, I didn't write the language. I was culturally very different. So I really did not fit in at school.

[00:02:26] Merhav: I don't like the statement. They used to call children that they have learning disabilities. But now as an adult, I say the school had teaching disabilities. Kid that had a learning disability. I also always say, a good trainer could teach a blind man to see and a deaf man to hear a good trainer.

[00:02:46] Merhav: And so I didn't find myself, I had a very hard social time, educational time. And when I went to a gym, it was just an immediate connection. I was able to learn lessons. [00:03:00] And I think that is the lesson for me. About my journey. I was able to learn lessons about myself.

[00:03:06] ck: You went to the right environment, basically

[00:03:08] Merhav: Absolutely.

[00:03:09] ck: Were fish in a in a in the ocean finally.

[00:03:12] Merhav: Absolutely. I think that is so important. Also when we talk about The trainer trainee or the surrounding that we're at if I can talk about more the topic. It's very important to have the right seed and the right type of fertile ground.

[00:03:25] Merhav: Just as you say, if you take a monkey and try and fish and ask him to climb a tree, he's going to feel stupid. And so through that surrounding, I was able to learn a lot about, about progress, about discipline, about, about, about setting a goal and working about positive reinforcement, about responsibility, all things that make life what they are, but in school, and so at a very young age, I started, I started my karate journey.

[00:03:53] Merhav: It was again, one of those things that I was either a stroke of luck or the great spirit put me in the right place. [00:04:00] And I immediately, started excelling two or three months after I had started, training, I had, won my first national championship.

[00:04:10] ck: Two, three months afterwards.

[00:04:11] Merhav: Months after, yes, I was, I was,

[00:04:13] ck: Wow.

[00:04:15] Merhav: Yes, I was a yellow belt. That's amazing. And for the championship, for my final fight, I fought a blue belt. At the time, it was like, ah, unbelievable. And from that moment, I had become, for the years that I was competing, I was the undefeated karate champion.

[00:04:31] Merhav: I had won for six years straight. And during that process of learning karate and then progressing through the karate world, my head and heart had started opening up to different styles of martial arts. There are different kinds of sports that have more visibility than others.

[00:04:52] Merhav: For example, most people know. about UFC, but don't know anything about Greco Roman wrestling. [00:05:00] Most people know about maybe boxing, but don't know about Muay Thai. So there was a certain choice over there to start expanding in different fields of martial arts.

[00:05:10] ck: You're looking at it as a profession, right?

[00:05:13] Merhav: Yes. At a time, by the way, and this is also very interesting. And I think that even towards the end, it's not a profession. Many people want to do it for the business.

[00:05:26] Merhav: Many people want to do it for the fame or the money, or I want to be a bachelor for a few years. But the people who are really world champions, really leaders, really anything in their field, don't do it for money. All of the great people in history, whether it's Freud, or Jim Morrison, or Howard Foley, the guy who discovered antibiotics, Leonardo da Vinci, no one did it for money.

[00:05:53] Merhav: No one does it for the business, for the career. It's a goal, it's a heart, it's something you want to be the best, [00:06:00] whatever the best means. And we can talk about that a bit later in the podcast. How that's changed the definition of what is the best. At the time I was looking to be the best and what I perceive really is the hardest fighting sport out there, Muay Thai.

[00:06:18] Merhav: In my opinion, Muay Thai is the most aggressive and hardest fighting sport out there. There's a lot of fighting sports. But I say, you know, chess is a very hard game. Very hard. Fighting is very hard as well. Now try and play chess while the other guy in front of you is punching you in the head and you have 10, 000 people around you.

[00:06:43] Merhav: And that's what Muay Thai is. Okay,

[00:06:45] ck: so pause so pause for one second. Let me actually ask you this very question that you just pointed to. This is very much of a physical gain, stamina, strength, power, endurance, all those right, [00:07:00] cardiovascular, as well as endurance. It's a chess move, right? It's a game of mental conditioning and strategy.

[00:07:08] ck: And, you know, I'm going to feign this so that he would do this so I can counteract this other move, et cetera. Right. I'm a martial artist by no way, then the same scale that you are at. But I, have had some sparring experiences where. I wanted to know sort of the internal mechanisms as you are fighting, especially at a high level.

[00:07:36] ck: Is it treating kind of like at an arm's length distance, like you're driving this meat suit, you're noticing this, the certain, numbers going down, like, okay, my heart is beating really fast. And then meanwhile, you're trying to like calculating certain things in your mind. Or is it just more of a [00:08:00] intuitive muscle memory, you know, let the intuition and body kind of takes over very much like a channeling way?

[00:08:10] ck: Or is it more calculated? I'm curious.

[00:08:14] Merhav: We have a mutual teacher, you and I, um, that we study with. And oftentimes when I ask him questions like that, he says. Yes, all the above. Um, let me, let me, let me explain. Uh huh. First of all, uh, let's call it top down. Top down, I believe that fighting martial arts, first of all, martial arts is not fighting.

[00:08:36] Merhav: Okay? Fighting is what you do on the streets. A couple of guys who don't know anything. Um, martial arts is indeed what it is. It's an art form, an art that takes, it's a skill that takes years and years and years and years to perfect years, lifetimes. Um, and that, technical art form, which you perfect as in, in one, in first year, my line [00:09:00] is crooked in the second year of theater.

[00:09:01] Merhav: And after many years, my line will be perfectly straight. That skill, which I'm trying to perfect is a spiritual Emotional conscious skill, which is why you never achieve that like life, you never achieve that point. I'm answering from from the top down before I step into the fight. Fighting is something very spiritual.

[00:09:29] Merhav: Um, martial arts is something very spiritual. I do not see any violence in it, but a perfection of skill. But, uh, yeah. A, uh, uh, a seeking of perfection, a perfection of, of movement, of note, of the seek of excellence, the search for excellence. Everyone does it in a different way. Um, um, Bach would like to do it with the, with the perfect note.

[00:09:48] Merhav: Uh, uh, an artist would do it with a perfect joke of a, of a paintbrush, an architect to do it with the perfect building. So everyone has a different search where they can find it from, from their heart and [00:10:00] soul. Um, and so that's the general out there. However, when you are in the, in the event itself, it becomes almost a, a separate part.

[00:10:09] Merhav: I've often experienced myself from the outside. I was able to detach something was happening literally in the ring. I remember getting once shook. And I remember stepping out to tell him, okay, make sure you keep your head, move, move around. And I could see myself wobbly. There is indeed a level of analytic separation when you are in the ring.

[00:10:36] Merhav: I can almost, uh, compare it to being, uh, um, you know, God forbid, uh, in, in a war zone or in, in a high, uh, high stress zone, uh, first responders, something like that, where we have to make a separate separation between the mind and the, and the, and the, and the feelings. Right. Just to be more specific about the question you said, because I'm understanding as we speak in the ring, there's no time for emotions.

[00:10:57] Merhav: There is no time for feelings. There is no time [00:11:00] for thought. Everything happens by reflex, not instinct. Instinct is a developed thing. Reflex is an ingrained thing to you. So you make things to become reflexes, so you don't have to think of them. So while I am under fire, and I'm taking, and he punches me, I don't need to think of, Oh no, what am I going to do?

[00:11:24] Merhav: My body immediately starts going side to side, and my body grounded, as my brain is able to think about what I'm doing. Um, and so kind of summarize that question from the top down. First of all, martial arts are, I believe, an art form of control of the spirit and soul done through the body, like many other art forms and many other tools in the battlefield, in the field, in the ring.

[00:11:50] Merhav:There has to be no emotions at all. There's no time for thought or emotions. And that is done through endless and endless and endless and endless repetition and practice.[00:12:00]

[00:12:05] ck: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I mean, I always wonder about at a really high level because, you know, on these podcasts, we often use boxing or martial arts. Sparring as a metaphor to talk about some of the principles that we, that you alluded to, right. But really never has anyone that I've talked to here on the podcast fought at a high level.

[00:12:31] ck: And so I appreciate your, your response. Thank you. Yeah.

[00:12:35] Merhav: Breaking your nose, for example, right, which I've unfortunately suffered quite a couple of injuries in my life, fingers, nose, teeth. So the first time you break your nose, it's a very dramatic, traumatic event for these reasons.

[00:12:51] Merhav: First of all, it's a kind of pain that you've, you've never really felt. It's some kind of a, and you feel something moving on your face, which is very, uh, dramatic [00:13:00] for regular human beings. That have never seen a body part move, seeing a shoulder move out of place, so first of all, something moves on your face, and you're like, in shock, and there's a lot of blood, and because it's this kind of area, then you lose vision for a second, and the first time you break your nose, It's like, Oh, and you get a different kind of blood when you break your nose.

[00:13:20] Merhav: You get, you get high oxygenated, thick blood that comes from your nose. It's almost gooey. It's not like the blood you get from your hand. The first time you break your nose, like, Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. At some point, when I, when I moved to New York city, I trained with a world famous trainer. I had the God's given gift to spend two years with this trainer.

[00:13:37] Merhav: His name was Hector Roca. May he rest in peace. Um, world class trainer, world class trainer, made endless world champions. I trained in the mecca of boxing, it's called Gleason's Gym in Brooklyn, New York, it is the mecca of boxing. And so one day I break my nose in sparring with a guy called Eric, who beat me [00:14:00] to pieces.

[00:14:01] Merhav: An hector looks down at me, and is like, sit down,

[00:14:09] Merhav: puts his nose back into place, and I And I stand up and, and, and get back fighting in the ring, you know, and then the fourth time your nose breaks, you're like, there's a total separation of what happens to you physically in your body at the time when you're, so your nose broke. So what? Yeah. I'm just saying that it is, it is, it is very, um, there is a time and place and space for that demeanor.

[00:14:34] Merhav: Right? If your child breaks your nose or your friend breaks your nose, there's a time there to ask him. Are you okay? Are you feeling good? Do you need to be comforted right now in the ring? There's literally man I broke my nose put it aside when I step off the ring. I will be comforted. There is a time and a space for these Yeah Something about [00:15:00] that that mental state space that you're in.

[00:15:02] Merhav: There's a separation of emotions and goals and, and, and in when you're there because you're very highly elevated and focused on something. Think about, it's not the right way to live your life, but when you're in, you're in an emergency situation, you know, think about that. Maybe your house is, uh, burning down and you have to go lift your, your woman or your child from the house.

[00:15:25] Merhav: And as you walk into the house, you stub your pinky toe on the corner of the table. Generally, you'd probably stop down and hold your toe and say, Ah, my toe hurts. But since you're going to save your, your daughter or wife from that, you're not even going to pay attention to that pain at the second. Shows us where we can focus our mind, what's important right now, you know, how we handle our emotions.

[00:15:48] Merhav:Um,

[00:15:48] ck: well, actually, on that note, let me pause on that real quick. Um, so I get it, right? You being a professional and not being emotional and not let your emotions drive you and totally understand that, [00:16:00] especially at a fast pace, you know, where you're docking, you know, punches and kicks coming your way, right?

[00:16:06] ck: Things like that. So totally get it. Or bullets in whichever the case, if you're a professional soldier, right? However, when, as you know, um, emotions do run high, and emotions can be suppressed, perhaps temporarily. But overextended period of time is a really bad recipe for Chronic trauma or stress or you know stuff gonna surface on the body, right?

[00:16:28] ck: So we're not talking about suppressing for a long period of time. However, when emotions there and non addressed We tend not to make the best decisions, choices At least for me, I can't speak for you. But if I think about all of my worst decisions in my life, chances are, I'm pretty emotional. So, so then how do you then balance?

[00:16:51] ck: All right. So I, I want to make the best decision and emotions, adrenaline's running high. And then I need to [00:17:00] perform, right? So, I don't know. What's your general philosophy on it? Not specifically in the boxing ring per se, but just more, now that you have lived, you know, being a professional fighter and then you also have gone through the medicine path, emotional healing and all those things, looking at it now, living a more balanced life, how do you, what's your perspective on

[00:17:24] Merhav: it?

[00:17:24] Merhav: So, first of all, Immediate acknowledgement of the fact you just said. We can, I'm going to use a metaphor. I can bury a body in my backyard, but the bones are going to be there forever.

[00:17:43] Merhav: Emotion, spirit. I personally don't like or identify with the word trauma. I think it's a word that gets thrown around very easily today. Um, by, I'm not going to, I think, but so I don't identify with that word at all, but emotions, trauma, patterns, the way these things affect us, we cannot get away from them.

[00:17:58] Merhav: Um, attempting to [00:18:00] get away from them or deny them is what causes us physical sickness, cancer, addiction, pain, multi generational trauma that goes on. Even if I don't know it. Um, side story, not to get into it, my grandparents are Holocaust were, they passed Holocaust survivors. The worst things imaginable on livable earth happened to my grandmother and grandfather.

[00:18:23] Merhav: My father grew up in that kind of home. Um, my father, rest in peace, I, loving father, you know, textbook father, textbook man. And yet, still things that he passed down to me, without him even knowing. And unless I would take the time to dig these things out of me, I would pass them on to my children. So absolutely first and foremost, acknowledging the fact, and this is new to me, I'm openingly saying this, this has been my change in the past couple of years.

[00:18:52] Merhav: My whole life, I was the fighter typecast. Fighter, athlete, uh, soldier [00:19:00] in the military, few years in the military, those experiences, um, no time for, you know, CK, you and I, you and I know each other also personally. I've experienced each other on, on, on different surroundings. And sometimes we've had some, some personal exchanges where you came up to me and said, you know, that's, that's really, uh, interesting or, or inspiring or, or, or the stuff that you said.

[00:19:23] Merhav: And I'm like, you know, bro, this isn't even me. Like two years ago, I would be the guy standing in the side room acting all hard or whatnot. And now I'm like this. expressive, emotional person. Um, there is a place and space for everything, right? That's also something that I'm learning in the ring. You need to fight in the kitchen.

[00:19:44] Merhav: You need to cook in the yard. You need to plant my mistake. And now going full circle to you and address your question is that because I was trained and learned and lived as a fighter, I was a fighter in the ring. I was a fighter in the kitchen. I was a fighter in the garden, [00:20:00] so I could never create food.

[00:20:02] Merhav: I can never plant anything. Um, All I did was fight. Those were the two things. And they were very successful for me. Understand the mistake of this. Right? How do people learn what they learn? They put something out and what they get back. If I'm mean to someone, and the feedback I get is that I don't have any friends, then I learn not to be mean.

[00:20:23] Merhav: What did I learn? I learned that being violent and aggressive brings me fame, fortune, international success, respect, status, money, right? So those were the tools that I had developed. Until that one point where the body that I buried in my backyard The bones are still there. We cannot run away from the truth.

[00:20:50] Merhav: We cannot run away from spirit. We cannot run away from emotion. We cannot run away from these things. And to summarize the difference between what I think, why I call myself a psychotherapist. So behind me here, we have my championship belt. [00:21:00] We have my Israeli championship. We have my last fight that I did.

[00:21:03] Merhav: And around the house I have my, my, my karate black belt. I consider myself a karate artist first. Why? The Japanese code of karate, samurai code, which is amazing. We can get, we can read endless about, endless about Bushido, is a spiritual path that has a physical outcome. And so a samurai is a man who would go to the field with his sword, And spend hours writing poetry.

[00:21:34] Merhav: Specific poetry that has to be hours. I feel that the West and sports athletics has sometimes taken the spirit out of it. And left us only with the And so that's what happened to me in many, many years of boxing, exactly like you say, I perfected these tools of, of aggression, of strength, of non emotion.

[00:21:52] Merhav: There was no outlet to that. And so we can talk about later, about the, about the end, about the, what happened at the end. But I can tell you that from my experience of karate, and karate artists, [00:22:00] real karate artists, those are guys that will spend The same amount of time that they will do physical training will spend the same amount of time doing spiritual training.

[00:22:14] Merhav: And so absolutely, um, in the ring, there's no time for emotions. None. No time for compassion, no time for thought, no time for empathy. Because in the ring, I'm there to hunt. It's very hard to say this. Do or die. We are two warriors right now. One of us will feed our mother and children. One of us is going to go home hungry and not feed our mother and children.

[00:22:39] Merhav: That is the outlook. You cannot step into the ring and say, okay, I'm going to fight until I know I'm stepping into the ring CK to within this squared circle. And even speaking like this right now is not the person I am anymore. And it's But I'm going to eat your heart out and spit it and chew it on the floor.

[00:22:51] Merhav: If you're stepping into the ring, you have to be ready to tip. The moment we step out of the ring, the moment my leg goes out is the moment I can come to you and I can hug you and [00:23:00] I can love you and I can walk you to the hospital.

[00:23:02] Merhav: And it's a very hard, almost impossible switch to make. It's very hard to make that switch between warrior killer mindset and, and, which is why soldiers and fighters, it's crazy. If they are not well taken care of psychologically, a lot of us suffer post trauma, a lot of us suffer spiritual damage because you can't turn that off because I just spent all day as a fighter perfecting my skill.

[00:23:28] Merhav: You have to understand this. perfecting my skill on how to punch you on the chin and knock you out all day. That's what I did.

[00:23:33] ck: Right. How do you inflict the maximum damage possible so he can knock you out?

[00:23:36] Merhav: Exactly. That's what I did all day. And specifically, it's not again, I mean, I don't want to go, I didn't spend all day training how to inflict damage, what kind of damage on the face with what, with my hand, with my left hand.

[00:23:46] Merhav: So all day, I'm just doing this. And then I have to get home and care about my flowers or care about my group. What do you mean care? It's such a hard switch to make. And people who don't make that switch, who don't cultivate that, [00:24:00] end up destroying their own selves. I can say, right, we don't use the other people language, but on my path, I can tell you that if you don't have the,

[00:24:03] Merhav: the balance, then you end up tipping over to one side.

[00:24:11] ck: Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing that, man. I think it goes the same with even the world business, because you know, most people who are on my podcast who are clients or entrepreneurs, and they achieve similar high level of success, and they train themselves to You know, kill or be killed, that type of mentality, right?

[00:24:35] ck: Zero sum game, not everyone, but that's, that's the sort of the old formula of success, right? Be, you know, kill or be killed versus, you know, cooperative, collaborative, so on. So, so, so I very much understand, you know, the, the, the mentality, the language. It's hard to switch it off. And then, and it does cost them something peace of [00:25:00] mind, you know, sleep relationships, because sometimes the force of habit.

[00:25:07] ck: You know, I, you need to have somewhere to go this, this energy sometimes lashes out towards loved ones, you know, maybe even oneself. I would speak personally for me and in cultivating this, this energy, uh, it wasn't lashing over others, but it was definitely turning and internally implosion versus explosion.

[00:25:28] ck: So it translates, you know, it should be, you have a healthy balance.

[00:25:37] Merhav: I'll tell you what my question is about that just as you were talking, I'm asking myself a question. This comes up to me a lot in the past couple of years because I've been thinking about my growth and change. So you know that saying, if you're a hammer, everything you see is a nail. You've heard that

[00:25:51] ck: before.

[00:25:51] ck: Of course.

[00:25:53] Merhav: Right. And so that means just to make sure that we're understanding, we're on the same page. So if I'm a hammer, everything I'm going to say, I'm going to bang on it, right? [00:26:00] Now, here's the thing. When you needed me to build your home and bang in nails, then you were very happy to have a hammer and bang in all the nails.

[00:26:10] Merhav: But now, when it's time for you to polish your marble, you're like, oh no, that hammer is too, too aggressive for me. Let's throw that hammer away. We don't need hammers here. I'm going to make a quick jump, and I don't mean anything politically. I just, I'm very connected to this as well. We need soldiers on the battlefield to give us our freedom.

[00:26:29] Merhav: Hammers. They do something. But then they come home and we're stuck with all these hammers. And I mean that again. So I'm going back from soldier. I was cultivated to be a hammer. But then, like you said, if we don't make the crossover, then I'm going to end up breaking my plates. And so my question is, and we need hammers.

[00:26:54] Merhav: We need fighters. We need that side inside of us. We do need a [00:27:00] forceful, aggressive, powerful side in us, especially, I want to say, as men. I'm going to quote Jordan Patterson. He says, um, that a peaceful man, a peaceful man is a man who is capable of great destruction, who is greatly dangerous, And yet he chooses the other way.

[00:27:21] Merhav: He chooses to solve something as peaceful. Whereas a man, who's not capable of any damage, But says I'm peaceful. You're not peaceful. You're just weak. You're not capable of any real damage. You're hiding behind. I need to stand outside of my house capable to protect my wife, children, kids, and property, my belief, my country.

[00:27:42] Merhav: Stand out there, but reach out my hand in peace and choose peace. I need to be able, um, to protect my wife and children, to protect my property, to protect myself. Because. Right now in this world, in this world that we exist, I do still need protection [00:28:00] from myself, maybe even from the elements, you know what I mean?

[00:28:02] Merhav: Mankind, we've achieved nirvana, and now there's a fire in the Hollywood Hills, and I need to be a warrior, pick up my, and I need to, and so we have to cultivate those two sides and be in balance of them. And so, To go back to your question, you mentioned business, and I'm saying, you know, CK, I, um, coming up to your, to your, uh, podcast, I, I, I looked at your stuff and went back on it, and I said, man, you know, I know CK well, but this guy has quality stuff on his channel.

[00:28:28] Merhav: Like, there's a lot of guys that do podcasts, but he has quality stuff. Like, this is stuff that I would love. Like to see on my TV instead of watching whatever. Now, as you know yourself, there's so much competition in the business world. There's so much the only way for, again, so I don't want to take it onto you.

[00:28:53] Merhav: I can say for me to stand out is to go the extra mile, to train one more [00:29:00] hour, to put a bit more content, to be just a bit better. To be that best you have to tie into a warrior spirit in you which is not,

[00:29:15] Merhav: again, but I could be lying, I could be lying, you know, maybe that's, maybe that's the awakening that, maybe that's a scarcity mentality. We do not need to compete. We can all work together. We can all feed each other. We can all, instead of my business and your business, we can all work together. That is the dream though, right?

[00:29:35] ck: I'll say this I think the way for me to think about this for me personally is think about the yin and the yang, right? The masculine, the feminine, you know, energetically speaking.

[00:29:48] Merhav: The

[00:29:50] ck: masculine is about penetration. Here's my intention. Let me assert myself into the universe, right?

[00:29:57] ck: The feminine is about receptivity. [00:30:00] So that's to me is a little bit easier to think about. Again, it's about having options. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to say I'm a peaceful person just because I can't do anything, I don't have any ability to assert myself. That's not being peaceful, that's just, as you said earlier, you're just being weak, right?

[00:30:21] ck: I want the full capability to assert myself to the universe, intentions and otherwise, as well as the full capability to fully receive. And I think that is more, that gives me the options to choose based on the situation, the person, the environment, where, how much of assertion, right? I don't want to be a, to your point, be the, be the hammer or serve myself even when there's no receptivity of my opinions or unable to receive when there's great opportunity to receive.

[00:30:57] ck: Does that make sense?

[00:30:58] Merhav: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And, and. [00:31:00] There really is, I'm learning so much education and spiritual learning about this. Right, I'm learning as you speaking. I'm like as a kid I was a nail and I needed to be educated with a hammer right that was the education I had listen my trainers. I had a Russian trainer that used to beat us with a stick He used to beat us with a stick.

[00:31:29] Merhav: I once had a trainer, uh, that, that threw my bag. I was, I, so, so when my nose broke, Hector yelled at me, you don't want to be a champion. You don't want to be a champion, bro. My nose is here. My nose is here. And he's yelling at me. What do you mean? I'm breathing through my cheek, bro. If you want to be a champion, you fight.

[00:31:50] Merhav: And so your soul gets shaped in a certain way. I didn't have, I'm telling you, honestly, I didn't have, Because I was, I was, I was a nail and beaten by a hammer. Then I [00:32:00] assumed that the way to communicate and teach and do things is with a hammer. You don't even know these things. Like you think out of like, okay, I'm not a hammer.

[00:32:10] Merhav: I have a wide range of tools and you really believe that. But in fact, all you are, you're either a hammer or a sledgehammer or a mallet or a, you know what I mean? Like you don't, you don't know what you don't know. You really don't know what you don't know. Um, so I just want to say that that balance thing, and as you were speaking, when you were saying yin and yang, you know what, um, um, came to mind.

[00:32:28] Merhav: Um, my very first tattoo in the center of my back is one of the emblem for my karate school. It's a very famous. Uh, symbol that I'm sure you've seen. It's this, right? It's the closed fist on the open fist that I was told as a child is that. So this is your warrior. You're strong. You're hard inside. You're a fighter.

[00:32:49] Merhav: On the outside, you're soft and relaxed. You're able to be soft and relaxed on the outside because you're very confident in the [00:33:00] inside. You're very confident in your inside because you can express this outside. And that really came full circle when you were saying yin and yang. I'm like, you have to cultivate both of these to be in true balance.

[00:33:08] Merhav: Otherwise, you're not in true balance. And that's what this symbol means.

[00:33:08] ck: Yeah. In Chinese, we have a phrase that express the same ideas. And why you , it's a, so the literal translation is on the outside, you're a circle where you can interact with others, right? With fluidity, basically, and on the inside.

[00:33:24] ck: You're a square because you know who you are, you know, your principles, you have a strong spiritual spine, and I really love that geometric. I mean, these symbols are really beautiful for me because it communicates so much, the yin and the yang, you know, on the outside is a circle and the inside is a square.

[00:33:42] ck: It's really beautiful.

[00:33:43] Merhav: Yes, I, I see, I see the correlation between those. Yes, I like it. I, I, I exactly understand.

[00:33:50] ck: Yeah. So let's fast forward a little bit because we did a little bit of a digression. But, you know, something happened, you know, after 15 years of being in the game [00:34:00] and then you lost and then created.

[00:34:03] ck: The pivotal moment for you that shifted you to really change the way you think about who you are, your self worth, you know, what life is about. Maybe you can go a little bit into that.

[00:34:14] Merhav: Oh man. Okay. So this is the point. I don't know. I may be, you may edit this out, but CK, you and I know each other from, from a separate circle, a circle where we cultivate some spiritual work.

[00:34:27] Merhav: Um, and that's the work, bro. I'm getting goosebumps as I say this, that's the work. Everything we do in life. Everything we do in life, I believe, okay, everything I have done in my life has been a search for spiritual meaning, search for meaning. Famous book, do I even have it here? I happen to have it here.

[00:34:45] Merhav: Uh, Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning. Famous book. Well, not very famous as it should be. What is the value? What am I doing? You know, I just sent you the value. I want to change the world. I wanna, and so [00:35:00] what, what are definitions? And I know I'm starting big, you said philosophical, but everything to me is, is highly philosophical.

[00:35:04] Merhav: Highly philosophical. Um, um, so to, to address that question, it was, it was a, it was, it was a big shock. It was a big shock because my self definition was, I remember, I don't know if you've watched the movie about me. Um, The movie with me starts with a heart breaking, gut wrenching sentence that I said years ago.

[00:35:28] Merhav: It's the very first sentence in the movie. And nowadays, when I see it, I almost The movie starts with saying, in English, is it me? What am I? I'm a boxer. The day I stop boxing, what am I gonna be? I'm gonna be a nobody. And the movie starts. I believed my whole definition to my veins was that I am a boxer. I am, this is what I am.

[00:35:55] Merhav: Ego. Ego. Ego. Attachment. Right? My definition. When I will be a world class boxer, then I will be happy. Then [00:36:00] I will be worthy. Then I will have money. I will come back to my country as a successor. I will build a home for my grandfather. Then I will. Then I will. I am only good if I am. Straight up, external, physical attachment.

[00:36:20] Merhav: Even though I would, I was never, money never motivated me. Money never motivated me, which is, which is maybe my education. Maybe it's not, not necessarily a good thing. You know, there's people half my age that have much more substance than me. There are people, I don't have a lot of substance to show necessarily.

[00:36:39] Merhav: Money never motivated me. I wanted to change the world, but even that As I stand so proud and say money never motivated me, bro So it's not money, but you have an external ego factor that's motivating you, right? Um, and that's so hard in our life in my life so hard to to To learn these teachings of, of, of Buddha and [00:37:00] in theory of attachment and separation from these things with the definition.

[00:37:04] Merhav: And so listen, when I stopped fighting, my entire life definition crumbled underneath me for a decade. A decade. Because if I'm not a boxer, I'm a nobody. Now understand what that means. It took me years to understand what that means. It means that, um, I went and got a job, and was very well, uh, respected in that job, but people would always, uh, talk shit to me.

[00:37:37] Merhav: I would allow myself to be disrespected. I would be in relationships with women, unhealthy relationships with women. I would, uh, move into an apartment where the landlord was, uh, to begin with, was a crook and would screw me over. I would accept, um, a leaking roof in my house and not call my landlord, well, because I'm a nobody and [00:38:00] I don't deserve So I would treat my body badly.

[00:38:02] Merhav: I would treat my I would not eat well. I would not sleep well. I'm a nobody. Your definition of yourself is as a nobody. Now again, what changed? Nothing changed. My own self definition. Everyone around me, on the contrary. Most of my, um, celebrity status, which I had achieved, was actually after I had stopped fighting, when the movie about me had gone out and I got some more celebrity status in Israel.

[00:38:30] Merhav: So people still looked at me as the champion, and I would have shame. They would introduce me on Israeli news. Merchav Mohr, the great Israeli boxing champion. And I would come and say, Guys, I'm not a champion. You know what I mean? I would feel shame about this. And so definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely CK.

[00:38:47] Merhav: That's been, that's been my, my part of my redefining myself in the past year and a half, two of my spiritual life. Um, losing boxing, I, I, I lost my whole definition. [00:39:00] I remember I would go when I went to nightclubs as a kid. We had the group of the b boys, the hip hoppers. And they were cool, you know, they did the flips and all that cool stuff, and I never know how to do that.

[00:39:13] Merhav: But what made me feel cool is when I would dance, I would kind of, I've seen some people I know do this, and I would kind of do this, I've seen people do this here and there.

[00:39:24] ck: Yeah, I know, I know that person very well too.

[00:39:26] Merhav: Yeah. Yeah. And I would feel so cool. I would feel so cool man and I'd go to the nightclub and that built my you know, I didn't want to dance like those guys.

[00:39:36] Merhav: I didn't want to break dance because doing this gave me a reason of who I am. But now what happens if I have no hands? Who am I? Who am I? Who am I without this boxing? Who am I without this status? Who am I with this? And thank God for that, man. Thank God for, thank God for that for me for realizing in my lifetime while I'm still [00:40:00] alive that, that who I am and what I am is a certain core of consciousness within me and is not dependent on, on what we can call ego.

[00:40:13] Merhav: How old

[00:40:16] Merhav: were you when this happened, by the way? The injury itself was 26. 26, 25 ish.

[00:40:20] ck: Yeah. Hey, man. I mean, how lucky were you to find that lesson so soon, you know, 25 years old? I mean, and I mean that seriously, because often, you know.

[00:40:35] Merhav: I'm just learning that lesson now, brother.

[00:40:36] ck: Hey, man, great, regardless of like, now is better than when you're 70, 80, 90, I mean, even what, you know, that's my point, because these type of existential questions or crises, shall we say, where we built our entire world.

[00:40:54] ck: Life's value, worth on material or image [00:41:00] or being married, being a father, having certain possessions, having a book, whatever, right? This really doesn't matter what it is. Being associated with a certain person or otherwise. And as they say in the Gladiator movie, What is it? Shadows and dust, right?

[00:41:23] ck: Ultimately. And then we get to find, okay, so beyond that, who are we really? You know?

[00:41:31] Merhav: And you know, it's, it's, it's hard to accept that because, um, you know, the things that we've done, or I've done, or you've done, you've worked very hard for them. You know, you've worked hard for a long time, you've achieved it, sometimes you work hard for years, sometimes you work hard for 15 years.

[00:41:45] Merhav: I mean, I worked hard for 15 years to get to world championship. And it's not 15 years, three times a week. It's 15 years, you know, you're an athlete 24 hours a day, all day, all the time. And so you achieve something, [00:42:00] and why not be proud of it? You worked hard for it, you know? You worked hard, whether it's your business, your car, your child.

[00:42:08] Merhav: And so, it's very hard to have pride and satisfaction, and love, and honor, and not attachment. Like, how can, again, that's a very hard question. I still don't know exactly how to do it. You know, like a mom, I would say, I am not my I don't have attachment to my, uh, awards, but this award, I worked hard for 15 years and I achieved it.

[00:42:35] Merhav: And it really does define some part of my path, right? So we learned that it is not really, we learned that it is not the award or the end goal that defines us, but rather the path and the progress and the learning that we do.

[00:42:49] ck: Yeah. Who you become along the way.

[00:42:51] Merhav: And there's no end, bro. I realize this again and again, and there's no end.

[00:42:57] Merhav: Well, I'll give you another example from the martial arts [00:43:00] world, which you may know. There are only, from what I've heard, there's only one or two or three living people in the history that have achieved this. So in Judo, As you progress through the belts. Um, and I could be wrong with the amount of people.

[00:43:08] Merhav: So like most Japanese martial arts, you start at white and you progress yourself up to black, um, through certain levels, and then once you achieve black, there is levels. So in my form in karate, there is Ni, Dan, Sho, Dan, Dan, and then you add white lines on the end of your black belt. In, uh, Judo, uh, they add lines.

[00:43:24] Merhav: The highest level of black belt ever to achieve is going back to a white belt that is twice as thick.

[00:43:33] ck: Oh, I didn't know that.

[00:43:36] Merhav: So, so you begin with a white belt that's this, and if you ever reach, you come to a black belt, and then you go to a white belt that's twice as thick. It shows you how, that when you achieve the height of knowledge, only then do you realize how much you do not know and how much there is to learn, you know?

[00:43:55] ck: That's why actually one of the,

[00:43:59] ck: how do I say this? I want to say it with respect. [00:44:00] When someone comes to me and declare themselves a master, in my mind, this may be my own judgment, I automatically dismiss them as not being a master. Because a master doesn't just go around, I'm a master, bow to me. Like, okay, in my mind, I already know you're not a master.

[00:44:21] ck: However, the flip side of it, there's some nuance there. Owning one's own accomplishment. Totally get it. Totally fine. But to me, a true master is someone who just embraces Kaizen, you know, everlasting improvement, always student first, sometimes a master. That's the way, at least for me, I aim to embrace. I'm sometimes a teacher, but always I'm a student.

[00:44:50] Merhav: I, uh, I really resonate with that. I want you to know that as a kid, um, As a kid, because I, I grew up in Africa, um, And the word master, to [00:45:00] me, um, Has a very, very, very racial, um, class feeling to it. Right. Because there were at the time that I lived in Africa, that, that, that, that the locals would call the white guys master.

[00:45:13] Merhav: It existed in my time. Um, and so when I came to Israel and I started working and there was there, I remember this guy's name. I remember his name to this day. He's actually a martial artist for life. Um, but this guy was grand master is something, something. Like Grandmaster? My trainer never called himself master.

[00:45:28] Merhav: Our mutual teacher doesn't even call himself a shaman, right? He doesn't call himself a master. So I agree with that. I feel, I feel myself, I really resonate with that. Anyone, you know, they say anyone who says he has the solution or says that his goal is to make the world a better place, Then look at him with a bit of, that guy's a bit, uh, not sure about it.

[00:45:52] Merhav: So I agree with you. Anyone who says, I have the answer. I am a master. I am. I agree with you. I have that same feeling. There's always a [00:46:00] place for, uh, discernment and study. So yes, I resonate with that. I resonate with that. Yeah. I

[00:46:04] ck: mean, one thing I really appreciate about your Mahav is. You live your life, you communicate with such authenticity, and I use that word very specifically because I don't use that word for everyone, you know, there's a certain amount of, again, I'm kind of grasping for words now, you know, you're very raw with your communication, and you also don't ask for permission to give your communication, which actually, okay.

[00:46:33] ck: Most of the time I don't like it when I receive from others, but with you, I'm cool with it just because you're being you that's, that's more half. I'm like, you know, you don't ask for permission. She like, Hey, let me just give you my opinion about something. Do you think that's a uniquely you, you, or that's part of your training or being a boxer or being a Sergeant or just being Israeli or a cultural thing?

[00:46:59] ck: [00:47:00] Like, what, where do you think that's coming from? Curious.

[00:47:04] Merhav: Well, you've had your, you're, you're, you're mentioning something that I've actually spoken about quite a lot. Um, so one of the things that I'm, uh, been working on in the past, uh, well, so, okay, all the above I have to address there. First of all, there's a lot of cultural differences between, uh, the the Far East and the US, right?

[00:47:20] Merhav: There's cultural differences in queues for communication and what's accepted. Okay. Um, number one. Um, number two, um, also the culture, the way I was raised, uh, the athletic lifestyle that I had, the military background that I have, the life that I specifically live. Is a life of, uh, uh, Communication is about necessity and function, not emotion and aesthetics.

[00:47:41] Merhav: Right? If I need to sleep, I find a place where I need to sleep on the ground. The bed doesn't have to be nice. If I need a car, it has to drive. It doesn't have to be nice. It's about necessity and function.

[00:47:53] Merhav: The flip side of that is necessity and function doesn't have any finesse and beauty to it. Right? So you lose a lot of that as well. Um,

[00:47:59] Merhav: [00:48:00] but on the other hand, I also have to say that I have to learn and accept the people who's standing in front of me and the role that I'm at. What I mean is, as a trainer, when you come to me, I can speak to you in a certain kind of way. You came to me for training and I can tell you bro. You're fat. You have to lose weight.

[00:48:24] Merhav: Stop being lazy. Stop being lazy You can do this. I know you can do this now if you're not gonna do this You're gonna go home and you're gonna stay fat now you came here because you have a problem in your life You're unhealthy you came here seeking for help. I'm telling you what I you need to do If you trust me, do it.

[00:48:38] Merhav: If not, just go home and keep being sorry for yourself for the rest of your life. That's the truth. That is the truth. If you don't do the work, no one's going to do the work for you. In whatever field it is, if you're not going to get in the ring to fight, you don't want to be a champion. Nobody cares that your nose is here in Maghreb.

[00:48:52] Merhav: If you want the title, you're going to have to tame and fight. Um, nobody cares. Nobody cares that you're tired and that your wife left you and that you're if you want to lose weight, if [00:49:00] you want to better your life, you have to wake up in the morning and go run. If you want to, if you want to get yourself out of debt, you're going to have to get a second job and work nights.

[00:49:07] Merhav: Nobody cares. Nobody cares. That's the harsh side of it. That's what I'm saying when we need to work on things. But my lesson in life is understanding that not everyone can be spoken in that way. That's not necessarily going to motivate everyone. On the contrary, if someone is on the tip of breaking and I speak to him like this, He might break totally.

[00:49:31] Merhav: Now everyone has a different spirit. CK, I know you, that you, if I would catch you in a corner, from, I know that I would speak to you like this and get you to wake up. Because I know you that I could find that within you, it existed, and I could touch that of your soul. There's someone that if I speak to, I'm gonna break him.

[00:49:50] Merhav: And then what? And then I'm going to stand aside and say, he was weak. And indeed, maybe he was weak and he cannot come with me into the battlefield. [00:50:00] But if I was a better trainer or better teacher, I could find the way to speak to him. And he could stand up and maybe he doesn't have to be a fighter, but maybe he could go be in the command room.

[00:50:11] Merhav: Or maybe he could go do something. You have to lift people. Right? So the language is very important. Um, why do I speak like this? And again, it depends who. You know, I'm also learning, am I invited? Is it the right space? Um, can I come and say, is it my own ego wanting to tell you how you are wrong and what you have to do in your life so that I feel better about myself?

[00:50:36] Merhav: Right? That's a lot of introspection. Um,

[00:50:38] ck: yeah, I was going to ask you this question because I err on the other side of perhaps I'm being overly referential. overly respectful of the space. So I err on the side of not speaking. So part of my learning, you know, where you are actually being a good example, a good teacher is, Hey, you don't need [00:51:00] to ask for permission, just speak.

[00:51:02] ck: You know, so, so what would you say for someone like me who's maybe perhaps culturally or maybe, I don't know, teachings or parenting or whatever that's just here on the side of silence and wanting to, you know, speak more inject more, even at this at the air of, um, maybe stepping over my balance, perhaps, you know,

[00:51:28] Merhav: I'll tell you what this may be, um, So, okay, interesting.

[00:51:28] Merhav: Culturally, right, the Far East has more of a culture of honor and respect. Um, I want to say with the mannerisms, the bowing, the speaking, the gentleness, the In the Middle East, there's the same core, but the behavior is different. So I once went, um, I was, I was invited to the, there was a Japanese prime minister, something in Israel, the karate team.

[00:51:54] Merhav: And we were taught how to behave before we even went onto, you know, [00:52:00] how to this, how to hold the tea, how to very, very, everything has a lot of honor, right? Over there. And we stand and we're like, flip side, I go to meet an Arab. Inviting me into his house. I come into his house, this guy's like, AHH! BAM!

[00:52:19] Merhav: Smacks me on the back! Come! Shaitan! Eat it! Shoves food! Honor! Again, if I would not, that would be the same, the same, uh, uh, uh, uh, high value of honor. If I would have not eaten, instead of drank his coffee, it would have been a worldwide drama just as if I would have spat on the floor of the Japanese, right?

[00:52:38] Merhav: Um, the culture thing is, is very important, I feel, but, um, we, I, like to err on the side of, I believe in truth. Even when I used to sell, for example, as a salesperson, I believe in forgiveness rather than permission. It's okay. Oh, I made a mistake. I'm very sorry. I didn't mean to. [00:53:00] Let me step back. And if everyone has a true and open heart.

[00:53:04] Merhav: And it's meant truly, then we can move on to it. If someone gets offended or hurt, if the heart isn't true and open, then the relationship won't work, which I think, I

[00:53:12] ck: think what you just pointed to is like, Chris, what we're speaking about is more stylistic, right? Whether you're quiet or you're, you know, these are more style, your cultural appropriateness, I mean, but the core of it is that open heart, right?

[00:53:28] ck: What's your intent?

[00:53:29] Merhav:Yes, yes. Absolutely. Why the

[00:53:30] ck: openness? Like, are you actually being true? Being authentic? Like, this is You know, not like scheming or trying to, you know, throw something over in order to do something. I think that's, I think that's what that is.

[00:53:35] Merhav: And again, I think, and this is something also for me that I'm learning and, and, and had an interesting conversation just last night.

[00:53:35] Merhav: What is the goal of that truth? What is the goal? Am I just saying something because I can't stand it and I want to. Purge it on you so I feel better. What is, what is the space of that truth? Again, as a trainer, if you come to train with me, we have opened a space of which there is a hierarchy, um, where you have come to take advice from me as a trainer.

[00:53:59] Merhav: [00:54:00] When I would go to a doctor, there's a hierarchy over there. I understand that he's the doctor. And if he tells me you need to do one, two, three, then of course I could go to another doctor. But whilst, whilst I'm inside his office. We have agreed that this is the game we're playing. You are the teacher, I am the follower.

[00:54:17] Merhav: You are the leader, I take your, uh, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Uh, authority. I've had many people over the years that have left my classes feeling very uncomfortable. Very uncomfortable. I've had more people over time stay with my classes. I'm a very unique kind of trainer. I'm not, I'm not a, it's okay.

[00:54:36] Merhav: I believe you can do it. I know you have it in you. I'm the kind of guy that says I would use different language, but basically I would say, don't be weak. Do it. That's what I believe. I believe.

[00:54:47] ck: I know what language you use.

[00:54:52] Merhav: Yes. And also, by the way, it depends who I'm speaking to, but yeah, sometimes the language would, would be exactly the language you, you, you, you're thinking of.

[00:54:58] Merhav: And sometimes it would be [00:55:00] different because that to me. Right? There are many colors in the rainbow. That motivates me. When I go train, when I challenge myself, when I go to a spiritual session, I ask myself, what kind of man are you? When I look in the mirror naked, and I want to look at that man, am I a man that deserves a good woman?

[00:55:19] Merhav: Can I take care of my woman? Am I loyal to my friends? My honest in what I do? Am I good? Do I respect my parents? Do I respect? Am I good? And when nobody sees. And I want to look at that and I want to say, what do you mean? I can't do one more pushup. What do you mean? What kind of man are you? One more pushup.

[00:55:40] Merhav: I can't wake up. What kind? And that, that's what motivates me. So when someone comes to me and has a hard corner, I would use maybe harsh words like, bro, what kind of man are you? Are you a crybaby? You want to go sit with the crybabies? You want to be a six year old? Fine. But you know what I believe about you, CK?

[00:55:58] Merhav: Or you know what I believe about [00:56:00] any woman that came to me and says, I can't? Real world. Real words. I looked at a woman. She said, oh, I can't. I said, woman? You carried a baby to term in your stomach and you pushed him out from between your legs with no anesthesia And you are in charge of raising a life for the next 15 years Are you telling me that you can't do that?

[00:56:24] Merhav: And she looked at me and she's like, I'm a mother Yes,

[00:56:32] ck: you know how to speak to her yeah, you know how to actually note so on that note You Because you had talked about you work with some of the greatest trainers, right? And I think you just illustrated how you, you yourself are a great, uh, teacher as well.

[00:56:42] ck: You're invoking not just the words like, hey, you can do it, but you're invoking the core identity of who they are, the core commitment, who they are, and you're invoking that you are a mother. Are you saying that as a mother, you can't do this simple pushup, [00:57:00] boom. That's how you invoke their highest self to get that extra push and motivation.

[00:57:06] ck: Is there something else you wanted to say about invoking that highest self? Either in oneself or in your students?

[00:57:16] Merhav: I think you just said it right. I could keep, I could keep expanding and elaborating because, but you literally, you hit it on the nail. You hit it on, on. Yeah. Yeah, you said it well. I could, I could keep elaborating because it's very spiritual and emotional, but you described it perfectly.

[00:57:25] ck: Well, one of the things that I appreciate also in this conversation, I just want to underline this a little bit. I like to double click on certain things, right? I think a mark of a good teacher is to meet their students where they're at, you know, whether using perhaps more crass words, because that's how they can receive it or more gentle words, because they are at the brink of breaking.

[00:57:46] ck: Right? So that's the mark of a good student. I think there was a famous quote I learned from my Min Circle. That is, uh, truth without compassion is brutality.

[00:57:55] Merhav: I

[00:57:55] ck: used to walk around just like smash people with my truth, [00:58:00] come from a good place, I meant it well, but I wasn't skilled enough, I wasn't refined enough to meet people where they're at.

[00:58:08] ck: So I'm not perfect by any means, but I at least these days I do my best to try to meet people where they're at.

[00:58:15] Merhav: And you know what? I really resonate with that. That's such a great truth without compassion is brutality. So I would be that guy for many years and I just like to say my process is I would hide behind.

[00:58:29] Merhav: The title of I'm honest or I am truthful, but it's not true because I have my own problems within me. Then I cannot handle weakness in other people. And so I look down upon it because it mirrors the weakness I have with me when I would put down people or speak badly to them. They know I'm just being truthful with no compassion.

[00:58:56] Merhav: No, bro, you have a problem. I'm talking to [00:59:00] me. You have a problem with your own weakness, with your own And so when you see weakness in others, you try and step on it as a way of stepping on your own weaknesses Right. And so I am very strong physically training, like literally right now. I could run Irvine if I need wherever I could, I can run there.

[00:59:23] Merhav:It would take, I like that

[00:59:23] ck: confidence. That's great.

[00:59:24] Merhav: No, I listen. I know. I know. There's no, there's no doubt in mind. It would be very hard. Like right now I could go run to Irvine. I know this, right? It's been done before. It's been done before. There's days in the middle. We used to march. And because I know this and I will see somebody else.

[00:59:39] Merhav: Oh no, I can't walk 10 no, you're weak, you're this, you're that. But bro, the only reason I call him weak, so I can walk to Irvine, but I can't make peace with my long lost love. But I can't treat my own soul and my own [01:00:00] pain. So I'll walk to Irvine and say, I'm good, I'm strong, but I have hardship with my friends that I haven't handled.

[01:00:06] Merhav: I have internal pain. And so when I see someone weak physically, I'm going to put him down for being weak, but that's not true. And so truth without compassion is brutality. And, um, and sometimes we speak that truth to spew our own poison on other people. Um, and the goal is to lift these people with truth, with compassion that can be not forceful, but true.

[01:00:35] Merhav: I don't yet know exactly how to do this all times, right? It's a language thing, but, uh,

[01:00:35] ck: I think it's actually, so, um, again, uh, let's use younger CK because he's, uh, he's a target at, He's, he's someone I understand very well, okay, and, um, I used to go around to impose my truth on others, and these days, for me, it's actually more important that I tell the truth to myself,

[01:00:57] Merhav: you know,

[01:00:57] ck: radically, radical truth, and where [01:01:00] am I not telling the truth really, and, and then, uh, use my friends, my teachers, my noble allies, I call them, to help me see my blind spots.

[01:01:11] ck: Right, so I can tell the more truth to myself and it's not so important actually unless they ask me unless you know students clients Friends ask me hey, you know hold the mirror for me. Are there things that I'm not seeing? I normally don't like to automatically offer you need to see this and the other thing So I'm curious to know your thoughts about truth.

[01:01:34] ck: How do you think about it?

[01:01:35] Merhav: It depends on the setting, you know, I'm just hearing you speak, right, and you and I share uh, some certain uh, uh, mutual circles where I think maybe we touch and learn on some of the same topics, and even this that you're talking about right now. You know, it's a question. When you come into my gym, you're coming to learn to box.

[01:01:42] Merhav: And so if I'm going to see you on the corner doing something wrong, I'm going to yell out in the corner, yo, put your hands up, you're doing it wrong. You know? Um, and if I see you every day taking 50 minutes to wrap your hands instead of 10, I'll tell you, bro, you're taking too long to wrap your hands because you're doing it all wrong.

[01:01:59] Merhav: Like [01:02:00] that's it. That's, that's when you stepped in the gym. When we step to accept, um, my, uh, teachings.

[01:02:05] ck: That's right.

[01:02:06] Merhav: Um, how much can I do it? Am I allowed to talk to you about your food? What you do after training. I'm out to talk to you about your relationship. Like I had trainers that literally told me, break up with that girl.

[01:02:14] Merhav: So into my, like, there's, there's stories about trainers. And then this doesn't even happen to get into the, the lives of their, their athlete. So where is the boundary? Where is the truth? What do you allow? What do you not allow? What is the relationship between? I'll tell you what I understand. I used to have, and this is, and I want to say I can talk a lot about this, but to me, this is the punchline.

[01:02:38] Merhav: I used to have no respect for emotions. I don't care if I hurt you. I used to use really harsh words, calling someone fat and lazy. was not harsh. Right. No, stop being late. You're lazy. The only reason you don't have to do, you don't give a, you're fat, do this. You know what I mean? And that was the standard language.

[01:02:58] Merhav: And to me, it's like, there's no place for emotions on [01:03:00] the battlefield, but that's not true. I'm learning now that emotions are everything. really are everything for the progress, for the feeling. You cannot, knowingly, intentionally hurt people.

[01:03:14] Merhav: When you offer someone the truth, there's a, if you offer it respectfully and with true intention, right? Then that person where he's at can choose to be a little baby girl and offended from it and get his panties in a bunch. Or, you can choose to look at it and take it down, and that's spiritual growth.

[01:03:32] Merhav: And say, okay, I see my blind spots, let me work on one, two, three, let me accept it. And I'm telling you this as a fighter, you get off the ring, and, and people tell you you won the fight. And my trainer would tell me, that's not how you win a fight. And I would get very offended. What do you mean? I won the fight.

[01:03:49] Merhav: No, no, no. But if you want to be better, this is what you have to do. So in regards to truth, I think that I am learning, um, softer, gentler, more compassionate ways to meet who's in front of me and speak the truth. [01:04:00] While at the same time, um, not compromising. , it's, it's, it's the question, what is the, what is the role between us?

[01:04:08] Merhav: Are we, are we teacher, student, trainer, coach, uh, friend? Um,

[01:04:13] ck: But sometimes it's not so clear, right? Let's say Sagi, Sagi, right? He's your friend. I don't know what other relationships you have, he's your partner or a collaborator in the men's circle, you know, things like that. So I think it depends on like, are you a friend right now, or are you a business partner right now, are you a teacher or student right now?

[01:04:40] ck: I think having that kind of clarity for me. I like to err on the side of being clear, for me, but some people don't like that, you know, so anyways, you know, it's neither here or there, it's just more of curious questions about boundaries, essentially, that's what we're talking about.

[01:04:57] Merhav: You know, um, I've [01:05:00] never, even before I started doing this medicine work and hanging out with people from that, I never even thought about boundaries, not even personal boundaries, right?

[01:05:09] Merhav: So I'd let people overstep boundaries, maybe trainers, but it's like, it's, it's like for me boundaries and I'm sorry, and I'm, I'm sorry. Boundaries is a first world problem. You're crossing my boundaries. So it's bro, if this is uncomfortable for you, get up and go. If some guy is overstepping where I'm from, like, bro, you're overstepping, step back and then you lean back and down.

[01:05:31] Merhav: Do you want to have a cup of coffee? Like there's no, there's much clearer communication. I have a very hard time, um, you know, thinking we're, we're, we're friends, you and I were actually, you know, I know we're recording, I actually told you publicly that I'm getting so close to you and getting more to know you in the beginning when I knew you very hard time figuring you out.

[01:05:53] Merhav: Uh huh. Right? Um, your intonation, the way you speak, and I'm like, I, I, I [01:06:00] don't know, I, I don't understand this guy, right? Uh huh. If you could look just at this video, look at me, I'm all here, uh huh, and you're, you know, different of culture, different of language, different of, and so much goes into it that we assume and make assumptions.

[01:06:17] Merhav: Right? Um, and so communicating, understanding someone, uh, I kind of forgot where I was going with this. It was something about, it was something about, uh, uh, how to communicate. I think I kind of lost my chain of mind real quick. My chain of thought. Sorry.

[01:06:24] Merhav: So in Israel, where I'm from, I just meet you for the first time. Right for the first time ever and I see you wearing a pair of jeans and I tell you oh, bro You know, if you would have worn a green pair of jeans, you would look better today No, I don't even know you I don't even know you Like what do you a woman like your woman would be pregnant and a random woman in Israel would come up and tell you listen dear I'll tell you what you have to do.

[01:06:54] Merhav: Take this, call, no, call my doctor. Like bro, and in the U S or in [01:07:00] Japan, what are you talking about? And so this whole thing of overstepping boundaries, like it doesn't exist where we're from. There's no such thing as boundaries. I remember when I was, when I was had like as a celebrity in Israel, People would come knock on my door randomly, on my door in my house and would give me advice about the next show.

[01:07:25] Merhav: Merchav, I saw you, I know you live in Lisbon, man, I wanted to tell you the next week. And the culture is like, is like, Oh, okay, bro. Thank you. You know, or, or the same culture is like, bro, what's wrong with you? It's the middle of the day. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't mean anything about our energy.

[01:07:42] Merhav: I could tell you to F off right now. Okay. Here's an example. My best friends in Israel when I can see them, you know what they say when they see me first time? Uh, I don't want to cuss. U S O B M F. God damn where you been, man. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, boundaries and that whole thing, it's like [01:08:00] a first man, first world problem.

[01:08:02] Merhav: Your emotions, nobody cares about your emotions, bro. Like, speak the truth, get over it, you know. If my breath stinks, tell me. My breast stinks, just tell me. And I'll move aside. But again, that brashness and harshness does not fit the Western world, right? It's a different, There's no one right way, there's, I'm just saying, there's no one right way, you have to know who you're standing in front of and, and, and how to best guess the idea.

[01:08:23] Merhav: I

[01:08:23] ck: mean, I mean, so coming back down to this for me, like, I think what I admire about you is you're very comfortable about being who you are. In the body, in the, in the way you speak and just in the way you dance, in the way you articulate, tell stories and the jokes, inappropriate jokes that you tell me, you're very comfortable with just everything.

[01:08:42] ck: And that's, uh, something that I, I really admire about you, uh, it's a beautiful thing. It's interesting to hear you say that. And another thing too, you don't apologize for who you are. That's a beautiful thing. I mean, yeah, that's a beautiful thing. I really admire [01:09:00] that.

[01:09:00] Merhav: You know, it's really interesting to see, to see how you're seen or received by other people, right?

[01:09:06] Merhav: So I would say, if we would have never spoken, you and I, and this is the feedback that you gave me, I would say, no, CK, um, without knowing you, I assume that the culture that you're from makes you think that I'm confident in this just because of the vocalness in which I act, um,

[01:09:25] Merhav: But rather, and what you see as confidence, or truth, um, or something to be mentioned,

[01:09:42] Merhav: I don't know man, because I can tell you, listen, I have, I have a lot of, especially since I've lost, stopped fighting. And you know what, coming to the US, I'll share with you, coming to the US, I've been in the US now this time around for about five years. And, uh, I came with my profession. I was a well known guy in Israel.

[01:09:54] Merhav: I was a celebrity in Israel. I had, you know, uh, status, but then when I came to the USA, I started doing a totally [01:10:00] different field of work and nobody knew me. And I have, so it's not really that much confidence, not financial confidence, not a character. It's the confidence. I don't know, you know what I mean?

[01:10:09] Merhav: I have a lot of fear about what kind of man I'll be for my woman, my finances in the future, my own personal self definition because I'm no longer a boxer and who am I? So I do carry a lot of lack of confidence in that sense. Um, and it's just interesting to hear you say so even for me to get up and you know, you say maybe speak up in front of a crowd.

[01:10:28] Merhav: Um, I don't even consider that confidence and maybe you on the other side. It's really interesting to see him feeling confident. Um, just interesting to observe, you know, I would never. I, I can honestly tell you that I'm going through the least confident era of my life.

[01:10:46] ck: It's so interesting, um, to, and I'm making a generalized statement, so it's not just about you.

[01:10:54] ck: Uh, I learned this from one of my, my oldest friends, my teacher. He says something along the line [01:11:00] of, if you if you can only see you from my eyes.

[01:11:05] Merhav: My mom says that all the time.

[01:11:10] ck: Yeah. Yeah. Oh. So thanks for being honest. I appreciate that. You know, again, it's one of those things I admire about you.

[01:11:17] ck: You're, again, it takes balls and courage to just say what you just said. Right? That's what I mean. Exactly. So you're illustrating the point exactly.

[01:11:30] Merhav: You know, but I also think, I also think that it's also culture. Look, CK. Um, I don't know a lot about your childhood and how you were raised, right? I'm making, I'm making a wild assumption.

[01:11:39] Merhav: That, uh, being raised in a Eastern Asian home, um, is more rigid than a Middle Eastern home. I'm making that assumption. Yes, you're probably right. Um, and so, my mom is very Middle Eastern. Like, listen, you look at Middle Eastern, you know, that's the Middle East. Um, and And [01:12:00] so that culture is also part of me.

[01:12:02] Merhav: And so when you tell me, um, exposing myself in this, so you're speaking like this. I have no doubt that in the right setting and surrounding, you are able to do that. Maybe in privacy with your, if you are unable, and this I'm going to say, if you are unable to do that anywhere, everywhere, everyone, then I think that is a problem for any person, right?

[01:12:29] Merhav: But if you're able to do that just privately with you and your woman or you and your, your your trusted friend or you and your priest. Then maybe I'm a bit more, uh, comfortable to do it publicly being recorded, right? Um, which is a cultural thing, which is maybe a boundary thing. But I believe you have that vulnerability as well, or that we call haira, that truth within you.

[01:12:50] Merhav: Um, and you expose it in different areas. Right. So the, I think, I think that the expression of it is in my case is more [01:13:00] cultural slash social.

[01:13:02] ck: Yeah.

[01:13:03] Merhav: Rather than the core of it.

[01:13:05] ck: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I see what you mean. I was speaking to a, um, Another, uh, community builder, a leader. And then he was speaking to a brand new group of people.

[01:13:17] ck: How he introduced himself was my name is so and so I'm a sex addict. I'm an alcoholic and the like, that's his opening line to everyone. Now, is that a shtick? Maybe, but to me again, right. It takes courage to just be so open about. Everything. And the way that he made, again, part of it is culture because he came from the world of AA and the famous quote that he gave that I remember today is, we are as sick as our secrets.

[01:13:53] ck: So the fact that he's conscientiously choose to out his secrets, again, I don't know if it's a [01:14:00] shtick. I don't know if it's just the thing that he authentically feels that way. But either way, I respect the courage, the willingness to just be, uh, transmute what's typically shameful or secret to first line introduction.

[01:14:19] Merhav: Absolutely. And then, and then,

[01:14:20] ck: and then for me. It's not some, someone, let's see, I don't care to go around and. You know, share my skeletons in the closet as my first line introduction everywhere. That's not, I don't think it's appropriate as Brene Brown said, your vulnerabilities earn, right? I think people can say it's a privileged space to, to share those very personal things.

[01:14:48] ck: At the same time, I, I personally aspire to have the comfort, the ability to be able to, um, Hey, you know, this is what it is. This [01:15:00] is my life. This is my past. This made me who I am. I don't have any guilt or shame around it. It's just I'm comfortable with all that. So my point I'm sharing all that is I appreciate that about you is my point.

[01:15:16] Merhav: Thank you. I just want to touch on touch on that real quick. I know we're and this is back to where we're going. There is a time and space in place for everything. There's a time to be a warrior. There's a time and space to be a lover. When I need to protect my wife and children, I need to be a warrior.

[01:15:26] Merhav: When I need to love and care, I need to love and care. So just what you said right now, there's a time and place for how to give this truth, for how to feel, to when to be in each space. Cause if we mix it, then it's just, it's inadequate. It's not inadequate. It's inappropriate. That's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah,

[01:15:43] ck: well, I mean, how about this I wanted to maybe Land land the plane so to speak on more of the spiritual journey that you've been on in the last couple of years And you had said it's been the most pivotal phase of your life thus far, right?

[01:15:59] ck: Cause [01:16:00] you're still really young and got many decades to go, but thus far. So what are some of the, maybe pivotal experience, maybe, you know, that's really helping you integrating Some of these key life lessons that you've been trying to hone and live, for example, from the book in search for meaning, you know, cause you're optimizing your, your life for meaning you optimize your life for mastery.

[01:16:32] ck: Um, what are some of the key, um, maybe experiences or learnings that you care to share?

[01:16:47] Merhav: Wow.

[01:16:55] Merhav: It's funny. You know, um, I find that all the catch [01:17:00] phrases. All the textbook phrases are indeed true. Um, for example, the journey is more important than the destination. Um, for example, all good things come to those who wait. Things take time.

[01:17:19] Merhav: I'll tell you what, it's on, more, more, more than I can say, it's like I'm actually,

[01:17:25] Merhav: I'm at awe with how much there is to learn and grow. I am just turned 41 this year and all of a sudden feel like, ah, now I'm learning. Now I'm understanding. Ah, when I was 17, 18, full of testosterone, 21 years old with my motorcycle and my muscles and my world championship. I thought I figured it out. I thought I knew everything and so I could say the most pivotal thing is [01:18:00] understanding

[01:18:05] Merhav: Understanding the place of the heart and the spirit in everything we do

[01:18:18] Merhav: This is almost gonna be this is almost gonna be Religious what I'm about to say But but all we have in Judaism to say all we have the Messiah is already here He's already here the end of days The after the end of days, if you, we are already, we are already in the Garden of Eden. All we have to do is just add one more good deed, just one more good deed, and, and right now is Revelation.

[01:18:41] Merhav: Right now, it's happening, and I really believe, I really believe that's all we, and it's almost, it's almost like religious speak right now. All we have to do is do good, bring good, try and elevate, try and come together, try and elevate our spirit by seeking perfection [01:19:00] of the soul, of the spirit, in any which way, whether it's bonsai tree cultivating, whether it's tree cultivating, being the best teacher, or we started our conversation of what it is to be the best, So I can finish and I'll tell you, okay, this is my thing.

[01:19:16] Merhav: What is it to be the best? What is it to be, uh, a, a, the word I'm looking for is excellent. I used to seek excellence, right? And I was an excellent fighter. And then I was an excellent trainer. What is an excellent man? An excellent man is a man whose wheel, bicycle wheel, has spokes in them. And each and every one of those spokes is perfectly balanced.

[01:19:51] Merhav: So I used to be an excellent boxer, but my wheel wouldn't turn. I have to be an excellent friend, and an [01:20:00] excellent lover, and an excellent worker, and an excellent citizen, and an excellent, and when I am balanced in all those things, my wheel can rotate peacefully. And so an excellent man is a man who is balanced across All of the aspects of his life, not only one.

[01:20:26] ck: Yeah, one of the frameworks that I teach, uh, I again, learn from my, my spiritual teacher is the 5Fs framework. 5Fs stands for fitness, finance, family, faith, and fun. Obviously, you can exp Obviously you can expand on those, but if you have those five F's cover, like it was pretty good, right? So, and to me, that's the spokes of the wheels that you speak about, but to have integrity in those things, because if you think about bicycle wheel, the physical integrity.

[01:20:59] ck: Of the [01:21:00] wheel would determine the performance.

[01:21:04] Merhav: Yes.

[01:21:05] ck: And also the degree of which the performance matters, the integrity matters more, let's say if you just take it to the beach, if you lose a couple of wheels, no problem. Right. But if you're doing it the tour de france where it really matters, there are stakes then.

[01:21:22] ck: Every little spoke the attention of every little spoke

[01:21:25] Merhav: really

[01:21:26] ck: matters a lot

[01:21:27] Merhav: family fitness faith fun

[01:21:28] ck: Fitness

[01:21:32] Merhav: family fitness finance fun. And what was the last one finance? Finance. Finance. And so listen, I'll give you something. For many years, I was an, I was a, I was a, I was an excellent boxer, but my finances were, you know what I mean?

[01:21:49] Merhav: So then how can you take care of a family or, or your future or yourself if you have no finances? Oh, cause I'm an excellent boxer. So you were so busy being an excellent boxer, but you didn't take care of your finances. How was that [01:22:00] excellent?

[01:22:05] ck: Thanks for answering that. You know, as you were speaking, it came to me. One of the core questions I would, I want to ask you, as you know, the podcast is called the noble warrior, right? Yeah. I've spoken to almost 200 people about what it means to be a noble warrior in various themes and courage and purpose and joy.

[01:22:25] ck: And I was thinking before our talk, the warrior archetype. Yeah. And I think you embody the warrior archetype really, really well. So from that perspective of somebody who lives, who embodies the warrior archetype really well, one, how would you articulate the warrior archetype? And also two, if you have any, you know, frame and tools and to support those who want to Increase their warrior archetypical [01:23:00] energy.

[01:23:03] Merhav: So, we had, uh, I'll tell you what, two things, as you were speaking, as you were speaking. A few weeks ago, uh, we were doing this, uh, course with one of our teachers and we were talking about love and warrior and ta ta ta ta ta ta. A warrior is a man who can bear not only the weight of his shield, but also the weight of his heart. Um, that is, that is, that is, that is really what I feel about what is a warrior. A warrior who can carry, cause everyone battles a different battle, man. Everyone has a different battle, right? Some guy's battle is, is, is helping his mom who's got cancer.

[01:23:43] Merhav: Some guy's battle is, is, is helping bring money home. Some guy's battle is just dealing with, you know, I used to laugh at this. Don't be a little kitty cat. What do you mean you suffer from depression? Get up and fight! People are dying in the world. What do you mean, I don't feel good, you little [01:24:00] But for him, it's a battle.

[01:24:01] Merhav: For him, it's a real battle, right? Um, um, You know, you can call me bad words, and I say, okay, those are words. Sticks and stones may break my bones. But someone, they may really pierce him, these words, and hurt him. Who am I to judge? A warrior is a man who can carry the weight of his own heart. And it's not easy carrying the weight of your own heart.

[01:24:23] Merhav: It's not easy. Um, so that's something that came to me just as you were speaking, and I really, I'm going to keep going back to that, because my heart makes me want to quit. My heart makes me want to cry. My heart makes me, heart and emotions are fleeting, you know. I have to control my heart, control my body, control my spirit.

[01:24:42] Merhav: That is why I'm not a beast. I'm not an animal. God gave me my, uh, what's the word in English? My capacities? I don't know the word in English. My, my eyes, ears, my, my, my, I can do this. I'm not just an animal. I have control over my spirit and my soul. That's what I was born to do, to, to, you know, God created something from nothing.

[01:24:58] Merhav: We are here as [01:25:00] spirits of God to create art, to bring life, to elevate, to create something from nothing. That's what I have. Controlling my heart, controlling my emotions, being a true martial artist. When he's punching me, don't flinch, hold your hand. When I need to put my leg down here, I put my leg down here.

[01:25:20] Merhav: Not there. I control myself, control my spirit. I am higher than this beast. beastly soul of mine. Um, and to do good brother, to do good, to do good, to do good, to spread good, to spread love, to bring about togetherness, to use our, our warrior spirit and our tools rather than than making tools of war, to make tools of love.

[01:25:40] Merhav: Cause it's harder to make love than it is to make war. It's harder to make peace than it is to wage war. I can tell you this as a warrior, um, as a fighter, as a soldier, It's much harder looking at my enemies across the line right now and saying, I have to make peace with them. I have to make peace with them.

[01:25:59] Merhav: [01:26:00] We have to make love. We have to make life. We have, that's so much harder than sending a bomb on them. Um, I got kind of emotional there, babe. When, when, when, when you were asking me about that, I really feel

[01:26:15] Merhav: do good, bring good as hard as it can be. When the guy on the street says, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then you be a warrior and put your hands up. And when his words come out, you punch away his words and tell him, I love you. I love you. I love you. That's the hardest story to do.

[01:26:33] ck: Yeah, man. I think you answered my second question as well.

[01:26:33] ck: How do you do it? Right. You just literally gave a number of ways to do it. Punch away the words, open your hearts, learn to forgive, do good and whirl, you know, continue to master oneself, the beastly self, the lower self, the, the, the animalistic instincts. Seek health.

[01:26:55] Merhav: Seek healthy surroundings. Seek a social surrounding that will [01:27:00] elevate you and will raise you and support you.

[01:27:02] Merhav: Um, and listen to your mom.

[01:27:07] ck: Always good advice. Listen to your mom.

[01:27:09] Merhav: Listen to

[01:27:10] ck: your mom. Merhav, um, I'm sure we can do a part two at some point another time, but, uh, I just want to take a moment to really acknowledge you for, you know, being a shining example for me, you know, what it means to be a heart center warrior, you know, the range of expressions you have, whether it's a warrior self or your, You know, uh, your really strange sense of humor.

[01:27:40] ck: And just, uh, the way you dance. Um, more importantly than anything else is the way you serve. Just with so much heart and so much impeccability. Uh, for anyone watching, uh, to me, that's really how one makes a big impact in the world. [01:28:00] And on the smallest thing, because you don't need to say anything to me about your own teachings.

[01:28:05] ck: I'm watching you. I'm paying attention. You're teaching me things already without saying a word just by your actions. So thank you for being such a good brother and teacher. Um, thank you for sharing your story on Noble Warrior.

[01:28:22] Merhav: Thank you very much, brother. Um, I appreciate again the opportunity, uh, to even hear Sin speak with you because even within this, as we often say, there is medicine.

[01:28:30] Merhav: There is medicine for me. There is a chance to introspect and learn and listen. And uh, and a bit get of a like a window into myself into my soul It's even if I if you choose again the intention, this is a bit of therapy for me. What did I say? What did I speak? How did I come? so it's very interesting for me as well and I thank you for inviting me today and for giving me the Um, the honor and respect and what you say for me.

[01:28:54] Merhav: And I will just say that I really believe that it's, uh, we're, we're all just walking together. Um, and you are part of [01:29:00] my journey and I've learned a lot for me. I've had a lot of processes, um, around you. I think I told you this in the beginning when we spoke and so thank you, brother.

[01:29:07] Merhav: Thank you for this opportunity as well.

[01:29:09] ck: You're very welcome.