Stress is omnipresent in most of our lives. Without proper training, it’s easy to get overwhelmed by the pummeling (literally or metaphorically) we experience in modern times. If you ever wonder how some seem to be more prepared and calm under any circumstances, you don’t want to miss out on the conversation between Andrew Marshall and me.
 
Professional fighter and healer, Andrew Marshall shares how he transformed his deepest wounds into a unique set of inner and outer skills to help others overcome similar struggles. He believes that developing inner strengths and outer strengths together give a significant edge for any leader.

We also talked about:

  • The Importance of staying clear-minded vs. being overwhelmed when facing a stronger opponent
  • From feeling worse every day to feeling younger every day (and an important ingredient of his transition)(hint: eagerness)
  • Every form of spiritual practice is a form of meditation (He started from not being able to sit for 5 minutes)
  • Key areas of skills to master as a transformational healer: meditation, communication, business operation, relaxation
  • The importance of logging in ‘mat time’ to become experts of any sort
  • Practical advice to apply in various aspects of our life: fitness, family, finances, faith, and fun

Quotable quotes

If you don’t have the training, you don’t have a choice. you are stuck in overwhelm

Not being able to sit in a room alone for 5 minutes seemed like a weakness; it just didn’t seem right

You don’t have to have a spiritual disposition to go really deep

Your spiritual practice doesn’t change that it sucks but it changes our presence

Off the mat, my aim is to be the kindest person you’ve met; on the mat, my aim is to wreck you

Feel your [negative emotion] fully and watch what happens

Your feelings are not yours; they’ll visit you and they’ll leave again. Relax.

Resources mentioned

Andrew Marshall’s Bio

Andrew Marshall is an Accelerated Evolution Coach and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Professor who lives in Portland, Oregon.

His passion is supporting people in living the free and inspired life they desire through physical and consciousness development practices. He believes that it is our conscious and healthy relationships to nature, one another, and ourselves that will free us from so much of the suffering we experience.

He owns Embody The Practice with the purpose of “Improving Performance. Enhancing Quality Life.” The message is simple. When we Embody The Practice we bring the lessons and benefits from our practices into our daily lives.

Connect with CK

Transcript (Made with AI)

CK LIN 0:00
What’s the difference between that being fully aware in equanimity let’s using a spiritual term, than say numbing? Because one may say, like, I’m just trying to numb all those pain emotions out such that I can be, quote unquote clear. What is the distinction between the two, when you’re in that state,

ANDREW MARSHALL 0:21
if you don’t have the training over time, it’s not a choice to be numb. You just don’t have the ability to you just in overwhelm. Got it. You’re just stuck in overwhelm. So you don’t have the ability, you don’t have the skill to make clear decisions in that moment. When you’re in the struggle, when you’re overwhelmed when you’re stuck, when you’re literally in a situation where you can’t get out in that moment, because another person is putting force on you. Right, you can’t get out until just the right moment when you find the space when you find the right one. So it’s knowing when to be calm and when to explode. When the space is there, when when to be patient and when to go,

ANNOUNCER 1:07
This episode is brought to you by CK LIN mindset coaching for leaders, entrepreneurs and high achievers. Having a clear mind will empower you to tap into your true potential, and achieve extraordinary results with more ease and freedom. If you’re ready for and committed to a full transformation, visit www.talkwithck.com and apply for a free clarity session today.

ANDREW MARSHALL 1:33
That’s beautiful. hape. Thank you.

CK LIN 1:39
You’re welcome. That to me is a has a beautiful grounding effect. And as I was speaking to you before we started recording, meditation and all these policies and practices are beautiful. And a lot of them require an effort to concentrate, or effort to visualize something or, you know, experienced something, whereas hape, totally passive, you administer this, and hape just grounds you immediately,

ANDREW MARSHALL 2:13
which I think as we’ve talked about so much. There’s so much talk about balance, right? Everything returning to balance, everything’s in the effort returned to balance. We integrate polarities, to experience that balance and even more importantly, integration and awakening. And to have a balance in our lives of those processes, those practices that require effort, so we cultivate that strength within us. But then bringing in these tools from nature, that are passive, that allow us to tap in and feed us with that energy of nature’s good to do both.

CK LIN 2:51
So one thing I wanted to say is, I’m really excited to have my friend, Andrew, here with me today on this show. Thank you so much for being on the show, by the way.

ANDREW MARSHALL 2:59
Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. On. It’s such an honor to get to know you.

CK LIN 3:05
Yeah. What were you before? How did you feel then? And how did jujitsu and then study of spirituality, shift your life.

Unknown Speaker 3:23
So from 13 to 21, I drank enough for a lifetime. Like my whole teenage years is just like a lot of substance abuse, a lot of anger, depression, feeling like shit about myself. Constant thoughts of not wanting to be alive. Just a lot of inner demons, a lot of intensity. That way, and a lot of immaturities, I didn’t have good examples of men in my life, to show me how to really be and to intimately be there with me in my life and show me how I can be in a healthy way. I hated school, I hated going to church and enjoy all these things that I had to do. Right? So once I got out of high school, and I was 18. So I did I had the choice to go to church or not. Once I stopped going to church and stop going to school, I opened up intellectually and spiritually.

CK LIN 4:21
Oh, interesting. So when it was forced upon you you resisted. I see when the force is taken away when they restrain it’s taken away.

Unknown Speaker 4:32
Right, when I graduated high school, I read so many books, on spirituality, I stopped going to church, I stopped going to school, I started reading tons of books. And I started practicing jujitsu and studying meditation techniques and spiritual healing techniques and really seeking it out eagerly. And change my diet started reading about nutrition and stopped eating fast food. And I started feeling a real sense of happiness within myself. A real sense of health, a real sense of direction started, and that inevitably brought healthier people into my life. All of a sudden, I’m seeking these things out. So I’m going to retreat some being a part of different communities. Now a sudden I’ve got great examples of healthy, happy people around me.

Unknown Speaker 5:27
Right, so you know, now I feel. Now I feel that before, up until I was about 20 years old, I felt like I was getting I was really getting older all the time. In the way that like my body was feeling more rundown assume more weighed down by life. Now I’m 32 tomorrow, and I feel like I’m getting younger every day. I really, I feel like I mean younger and healthier every day, like I haven’t even reached my prime, not even close. And yet I try to live like I am in my prime all the time. So from feeling worse and older, everyday to feeling younger, healthier, happier with every day, I’m feeling better with every day, feeling closer to God with every day, in a way that feels free to me from myself from my personal relationship with God, not the way someone else tells me it is. So I often say to people loving God is not just for religion.

CK LIN 6:37
And say more about that. What do you mean by that?

Unknown Speaker 6:40
Well, there’s so much attitude within religion that you need to have religion in order to love God and or, you know, the only times you ever hear people say, like, talk about loving God is like in church, you know, it’s kind of like they’ve like taken that some certain tournament Jeez, and kept said, you have to be in this club. In order to love God, you have to, you have to read the Bible in order to love God. And a lot of people that aren’t, aren’t religious, see the terms of like loving God, there’s kind of a trigger around that’s like a Christian thing, or that’s like, you know, a very religious thing. But I think about that as the most important thing in my life to remember to do, to give love to the source of love.

ANDREW MARSHALL 7:33
And that is where that’s the only way I think to truly experience the deepest love. And I do that, and that’s going to look a little bit different for everyone. But to love God, and the language can be different for other people. But for me to love God is the most natural thing I can do. There’s no medium necessary. There’s no religion necessary for that.

CK LIN 8:01
You don’t need intermediary for that.

Unknown Speaker 8:06
To love the source of my creation that allows me the source of all that is and ever will be the source of every aspect of my existence. To give love back to that is happening underlying Lee and every moment. And that’s what my spiritual seeking is taught me. And prior to my own spiritual practice my own practices and really having my practices in life since I was 18. I had no sense of that. I’m just lost and angry. And I only felt fulfillment when I was drunk. Hmm.

CK LIN 8:54
Actual fulfillment or the illusion of fulfillment

ANDREW MARSHALL 8:57
the illusion. In the moment it felt like it, then moment I felt like this is when I feel the best. This is when I feel alive, nappy distracted. And that’s what I want to support other eager individuals, it’s easy to say, you know, it can be easy to get into. That’s what I want to support everyone with. But that’s not true. Because it’s only possible through each person’s individual eagerness to experience that.

CK LIN 9:30
say more about that. What do you mean by that?

ANDREW MARSHALL 9:35
If someone wants to change their lives for the better, they have to the drive has to come from within them. First and foremost. Right. So all people that are eager. I want to be there to support them. There has to be an inspired healer, coach, Counselor, supporter, mentor, best to be the inspired facilitator and that eager practitioner, the eager client, you need those two. For the recipe to work.

CK LIN 10:11
Yeah, there’s a phrase I heard recently, you can’t force readiness. Yeah, yeah. Really. When the students ready, the teacher shows up. I think as a teacher, as a coach, as a consultant. In my younger days, I ignore that. I just impose my solutions on other people who aren’t ready who aren’t seeking. And then naturally they’re resistant. The reaction is resistance and repulsion. So yeah. And then and then that would judge them for not being ready. And all these other things, then I realized that everyone’s at the perfect spot. If they are seeking and they’re ready. They’re going to seek you out. If you’re not, they’re not there. They’re perfect just wherever they are.

ANDREW MARSHALL 10:54
Right. It’s just what it is. You know, I noticed that for myself, I looked back and as I’ve worked with a handful of clients that weren’t, didn’t really have that eagerness or drive like someone else told them, they should do it. They’re like are I’ll try it. And I just, we just end up spinning in circles. We don’t get anywhere. But the people that have come in that are eager, it’s like I barely have to do anything and they pop. And then I realized, fuck, I changed my life, solely through eagerness that was born out of myself, and then sought out I didn’t get support. First, the eagerness was born. And then I sought out the support. And I got tons of it. It’s still like, bountiful in ways that I just feel so blessed and humbled by.

CK LIN 11:47
So one thing specifically that caused me for it to have you on the show in a public way is that you are a dedication, you’re a dedicated student of life, a transformation artist. You’re about to get your second degree, a black belt in jujitsu, which has people who are now who are listening to this and say arduous. It’s a very long journey that require a certain amount of dedication to be able to climb the ladder of jujitsu. And you’re also a student of internal work transformational work, you’re in training to be a master coach, for WarriorSage. So right away, you know, to me the cause for an external internal balance. I call it the inner game and outer game, you are a student, not both. Oftentimes I see people who are just focused on the outer game, the body, or business, whatever it may be external. Or some people just totally focused on the internal, the spirituality, the meditation, the study, the ashrams, the meditation, and the cave, all these things. What I’m looking for when I speak to a noble warriors, whenever I have a chance, is finding people who actually have a dedication to both, because I believe that our body is these, this vehicle that brings forth to us if we truly want to maximize the potential is within us, I believe. One needs to do both. So I’m curious now if you can speak a little bit about that. Why did you pick? Why did you spend your precious life and energy and dedication to both?

Unknown Speaker 13:45
Well, as we talked about, in the in kind of the language here in our training, that balance of spine and heart, right, which you can translate to the cultivation of the inner and the outer strength, the physical, and the mental, emotional, spiritual. For me, it’s all one thing, it’s all necessary, I can’t do one without the other. Because if I do one without the other, I feel out of balance. I feel I don’t feel stable, I don’t feel as strong as I want to feel, right, I could, I could lift weights and train Jiu-Jitsu all the time. But if I feel like shit, inside myself, not living as my authentic self, if I have all these woundings, from my childhood, that is still nagging at me, it’s eventually going to catch up to me, it’s like, for me, it’s a necessity. And you know, I can’t totally speak for everyone. But I believe that that is true. for everyone. That’s my belief. Personally, we all need to have that balance of inner and outer strength. And whatever that looks like for us, it’s going to be different practices are going to call to different people. what’s called, to me is a spiritual practice. Which just means to develop men of understanding the truth of reality, and the truth of who I am, and trying to be the most conscious person that I can be in the world. Being in right relationship, which means a relationship with nature, with the land that I live on, with the people in my lives, that’s required to live a good life. And in order to live that good life, I have to do my inner work, I have to be as conscious as I possibly can be real, or else, right relationship is not available to me.

ANDREW MARSHALL 15:34
I’m an active man, I have this body that needs tending to, so I need to be active, I need to be strong. I’m fed by physical contact. I’m fed by lifting weights, you know, if I can, if I can pick 400 pounds up off the ground, it makes me feel really fucking good and strong and powerful. But I have to remember that that’s not the only place that my power comes from. If I only focus on the physical, then I think, Oh, I’m big, badass man. You walk around, I can pick up 400 pounds off the ground. Well, someone else who gets someone like Ishan, or guys like Gary, there, they’re not. They’re not big men. You know, they’re physically they’re small men. But men, their presence is big, a lot bigger than a lot of big strong dudes that I know. And I way rather walk into battle in quotations, like the Battle of life with them than I would someone who has done zero inner work, but they’re 250 pounds of muscle.

CK LIN 16:44
Thank you for that. So in my mind, why the balance of the two internal and the external? Because to me, our physicality on mentality, emotionality on spirituality and there are different fuel tanks. Or another way to kind of look at it, maybe? Yeah, see, that’s use a metaphor, fuel tanks. If one is totally empty, then you’re totally lopsided. You won’t be truly live that maximum our most optimal lifestyle? Yeah. Because easily, one could just take you out, let’s say if you easily pissed off because you carried some internal wound. Actually, I’ve been on jury duty on one point where people do stupid shit and then just throw their life away because they have a violent reaction to something tiny. As an example, obviously, so if you’re listening to this, probably you you’re not of that caliber. But but as an illustration, that’s, that’s what I see.

So I’m curious. What did you pick? Specifically, this practice with WarriorSage, or the practice of jujitsu? Out of all things? infinite possibility, right? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 18:03
I’ve always been an athlete. I’ve always been I did sports growing up a lot. And my senior year of high school, I was done playing football, football was like, provide a lot of benefits for me. I played football for six years. But there’s also a lot of toxic mentality in the culture of football. And, man, I was 18 years old, my body was beat to shit. I felt like I was 60 between all the, you know, training my ass off and beating up my body, and just beating up my back and my joints and everything and not taking the right care of my body. So I had constant. I’m 18 years old, and I have chronic back pain. I’m stiff all the time. I’m eating an unhealthy diet. I’m drinking all the time. I was like, really into drinking and using opiates and to mask my pain because I was the only time I felt good and could feel kind like normal myself. Normal. Happy. So after football was done, I needed something else. So I found fighting. I found jujitsu. So I just translated that the emotional and physical aggression to jujitsu, man to boxing

CK LIN 19:22
Okay, great.

Unknown Speaker 19:22
Yeah, I did box for a while. Yeah. And then I had a shoulder injury. And then my body was just so beat up. I couldn’t keep up the pace that I wanted to keep up. But I still stuck with jujitsu, I had shoulder surgery, I’ve had knee surgeries. And it’s been a journey for me to figure out how to actually be free from physical pain and emotional pain. And I found that they both contributed to each other.

CK LIN 19:50
emotional pain from jujitsu from life. Okay, just just a little on the line. I want to clarify what you’re saying.

Unknown Speaker 19:56
Yeah, emotional pain from life. So the physical pain was from playing football for years, drinking, eating an unhealthy diet, just being kind of toxic in my activity and, and overdoing it. So but what brought me to jujitsu was that I was just looking for another way to express myself through an art form, through a sport, through fighting, I wanted to fight. But then that kind of as I realized how beat up my body was, I need to realize I needed to change. So I stuck with jujitsu, because I love jujitsu. I love the art form of it. I love the physicality of it. And then, when I was 19, I started really exploring 1819 I started exploring spirituality, that what is this meditation thing about in martial arts? Now I’ve seen images of like martial artists meditating and having that ability, and I realized I couldn’t I don’t have the ability to even sit in a quiet room room for five minutes. That would drive me crazy. I needed TV on I need junk food to eat, I need to be drunk, I need to be this this or that? You know, so. So I started practicing meditation, and over

CK LIN 21:15
but why did you do that though? Because you sounded painful the way you describe it? Yeah, I couldn’t do it for five minutes, I needed something else. So why did you Why did you keep going,

ANDREW MARSHALL 21:23
something clicked in me, that said, it’s not right, that I’m afraid to sit in a silent room and not do anything. That doesn’t seem right. That doesn’t seem healthy. That seems like a weakness. So it’s a good 10 plus years of spiritual practice of traveling the world seeking different healing practices going to Peru working with ayahuasca going to south southeast Asia, exploring, you know, that area and the practices, they’re practicing yoga Qi Gong, various different types of meditation. And it was a few years ago that I met Satyen. And then it’s just been kind of rolling from there, I’ve been very dedicated in the work that that he teaches and in the warrior sage,

CK LIN 22:16
what resonated.

ANDREW MARSHALL 22:20
Initially, what resonated with satyen’s strength and openness. At the same time, he had such a incredible strength and an openness, a very good balance of that. And very spiritually adept. And so, as I started practicing these methods with him, I was like, and these are really like, well structured, straightforward, get you deep, fast, provide so much benefit and transformation in your life in a very short amount of time. So I found that after all the practices I’ve done this, these practices are so beneficial and deep and simple. And there a way that I can, I can support people, I could support another in going to a deep place within themselves and healing something in clearing something and more of a concise ease for way than I have with anything else I’ve learned.

And that’s, I think that’s what spoke to me the most, because I’m always driven to support other people in overcoming their pains and their struggles and the things that are keeping them from living a really healthy, really vibrant life. And these methods are something that I can support someone else in going through easier than anything. And you don’t have to have a spiritual disposition to go to a deep place within yourself.

CK LIN 23:55
Yeah, I really appreciate how you basically recapture the reason why I’m so attracted to his work as well, is the efficacy. It’s the efficiency. And it’s the ability to take people from point A to point B, because it’s one thing to share, like hey, meditate, both takes freakin 10 2030 maybe you’ll get there, maybe vipassanna, amazing, landmark forum amazing. But three days away from your family for 12 days depends on which method you choose iwoca and that everyone’s ready for ayahuasca. Again, it’s all probabilistic. But his methods are more predictable and duplicatable. And as a scientist by training, I’m attracted to repeatability and simplicity.

Unknown Speaker 24:47
And I guess to say it in a more concise way, I think of everything, every spiritual practice, every healing practice, I just think of it as a form of meditation. So an ayahuasca ceremony, it’s a form of meditation, Qi, Gong, yoga, sitting, any sitting meditation, practice chanting, they’re all forms of meditation, sound healing, which is something I also have been really focused on. And it’s all forms of meditation. These accelerated evolution methods are the best form of meditation that I have come across. We don’t call it meditation, necessarily, but it’s what it is, in my mind.

ANDREW MARSHALL 25:29
So that’s why that’s what’s really kept me coming back to it. And the way that there is the focus of being strong in every aspect of our lives, your fitness, your finances, your family, and your fun, and your faith. And that faith is, can be a faith in a bigger, something greater than yourself can be faith in God can be spiritual faith in it. And it’s also about a faith in your own ability to do what you need to do what you want to do and live the life that you want to live.

CK LIN 26:10
Yeah, faith it about yourself, believe in yourself. big one. Yeah. Usually, it is an ongoing process to, especially for people who are going through the ups and downs, roller coaster of life, as I am right now. Right. So having that faith, having the access to these tools are just tremendous. So I’m very, very thankful for being here being with you on the past week. So I do actually have a side question I’m quite curious about as you develop yourself, you’re a martial artist, you’re a professional fighter, rather. And you’ve been practicing this meditation, as we call it. Part of the when I speak to people who are fighters who were fighters always think back on their spiritual practice and meditation and say, Oh, yeah, I will be a much better fighter. Now, now that I’ve had this skill of being aware of the awareness, then before having the skill of being aware of the awareness, right, so I’m curious. As you progress in your outer game, if you’re fighting skills, the mechanics of fighting, and as you progress in developing the inner awareness, which is allowing it to come and go like waves of the ocean, what is happening internally, when you are being punched in the face. Or being aggressed when someone is on top of you 2030 pounds. So as you’re some curious to know, that internal grappling

ANDREW MARSHALL 28:00
the internet, so say, I’ve got had this recently, I’ve got, we’ve got this other black boat was really good, the third degree black belt, at our gym, i am about hundred 80 pounds, he’s probably 222 25, strong, strong dude. And he was on top of me a couple weeks ago, just drilling me just like give me such a hard time driving his knee into my stomach, like all this stuff, like really holding me down hard. And in those kinds of situations, I’m very aware of what’s going on inside my mind inside my body, right, while also having to be aware of everything that’s going on, physically, and being very precise, right, and what I’m doing because I could be in trouble really fast if I make the wrong move, right. So because of years of training, I’m able to keep a clear state of mind. And I’m able to be aware, instead of just overwhelmed, and losing clarity in that moment, and just kind of being blind in that moment. The training allows me to to see clearly in those moments.

CK LIN 29:18
So you might unpacking that, what’s the difference between that being fully aware (equanimous) let’s use a spiritual term than say numbing? Because one may say, like, I’m just trying to numb all those pain emotions out such that I can be, quote unquote, clear, what is the distinction between the two, when you’re in that state,

Unknown Speaker 29:41
if you don’t have the training over time, it’s not a choice to be numb. You just don’t have the ability to you just in overwhelm. Got it. You’re just stuck in overwhelm. So you don’t have the ability, you don’t have the skill to make clear decisions in that moment. When you’re in the struggle, when you’re overwhelmed when you’re stuck, when you’re literally in a situation where you can’t get out in that moment, because another person is putting force on you. Right, you can’t get out until just the right moment when you find the space when you find the right one. So it’s knowing when to be calm and when to explode, when the space is there, when when to be patient and when to go.

ANDREW MARSHALL 30:29
And that’s only cultivated through practice. That’s only cultivated through experience. And if you don’t have that training or that experience, you either you may have the ability to be calm. But if you don’t have the experience in order to be calm, and then move at the right time, you’re going to be stuck underneath and pain, struggling, then you’re going to get choked, you’re going to get stuck in an arm lock or something. And if we translate that to life looks if you don’t take the time to develop mental emotional skills and self awareness, you’re going to get stuck in pin down positions in life struggling, heavy, overwhelming positions in life, or maybe a certain overwhelming moment where something hits you all of a sudden in life, you don’t know what to do.

CK LIN 31:23
And you probably have no idea why you’re reacting when you’re blindsided,

Unknown Speaker 31:29
you’re just reacting without any skill or presence, your reactions take over. And so if we develop these skills and time over life, we can get hit with a sudden, someone close to us dies, suddenly. It doesn’t change that it sucks, and it hurts and it’s overwhelming. But what changes is our presence in that moment to process it in somewhat of a healthy way to be conscious of how we’re now treating other people as we grieve. Or if we got physically attacked by someone in life, you know, someone who’s been training for years, they’ll be able to see clearly and react in a much better way than someone who has no training. I’m overwhelmed by their adrenaline and by their adrenaline you just go blind and you start throwing limbs, you start flailing and start trying to protect yourself. But you’re doing a whole lot of effort with very little results. So that’s kind of one way could boil down any practice. If it’s a spiritual practice of consciousness practice, a healing practice, or physical practice, we learn how to create much more efficient results, maximum efficiency with minimal effort,

CK LIN 32:48
you are speaking my language,

ANDREW MARSHALL 32:49
So that’s what I that’s where I see the translation where we need the internal and the external, right? And so in jujitsu, I’m a folks when I’m getting that pressure, when I’m in a tough spot, with some other large, strong, skilled person on top of me, and they’re smothering me and smash me, it’s hard to breathe. And it’s like, I know that I can’t freak out. Because through experience I’ve found that makes it worse. So I have to conserve my energy, I have to protect myself time things correctly, and then move right when there’s just that little bit of space to go.

CK LIN 33:28
So I have a question. Because on the way actually, on the way, coming to the training today, I was thinking in sports, as a competitor, I’m just thinking, How do I win the game? How do I destroy the person physically, but then I was thinking about it some more. Because mental, physical, emotional, spiritual, they’re all connected. So maybe Am I trying to destroy the person physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally are the same time? Like, so I’m curious. And that’s the inquiry. It’s, I don’t have an answer, just an inquiry. So from your point of view, as a professional fighter, what’s your aim? Just focus on the physical or just all areas, you trash talk, you do all these other, you know, different tactics to bleed into other aspects. complete destruction of the human being in front of you, what do you think about

ANDREW MARSHALL 34:28
a funny thing I like to a funny thing, but a true thing that I like to say other people is off the mat my aim is to be the kindest person you ever met. on the mat, my aim is to wreck you.

CK LIN 34:43
destroy you. Yeah, total destruction.

ANDREW MARSHALL 34:46
So that’s, that’s the thing that I like to say. But let’s say when I’m going to compete against another person, yeah, I’m not thinking about their destruction. I’m thinking about my peak performance. I’m thinking about me, not about them. Gotcha. So doesn’t matter who’s in front of me, my focus is, is, is performing to the best of my ability. And if I perform to the best of my ability, win or lose, I walk away, feeling good about myself.

And then along with that, I am thinking with my with my technique with my fighting with the pressure that I’m putting on them, I am trying to break their will. which essentially means I’m not directly trying to get into your head, but I am trying to use my the best of my performance to put you in positions that’s slowly breaking your will breaking you believing in your technique over mine. Because if I get in your head and I’m smashing you it’s not that I’m directly trying to get into your head but in inverted I am. with my effectiveness to make you feel like shit. I don’t have this anymore. Even if you aren’t consciously thinking you’re feeling it, and then I’m getting the edge.

CK LIN 36:13
I appreciate that. I only asked that question. Only asked that question, because I’m also recalling the greats. Right The Michael Jordan’s whoever, the Bruce Lee, Gregor Yeah, the all trash talk. And their intention is not about sportsmanship intense, righteous, or Schwarzenegger. Before he competes. I hey, you have you lost pounds. And as a way to get into your head and ready to start to plant a seed of self doubt It’s a tactic. And when you’re competing in the elite level, a little bit of self doubt, makes the difference.

Unknown Speaker 36:58
It’s a game of inches. Yeah. internally and externally,

CK LIN 37:02
for sure. I also asked the question of the ability to maintain equanimity because I’m an amateur, I’m in the beginning stages of my boxing for you know, three, six months more dedicated. And man, I can have all the theoretical, you know, literature around being calm under fire, and everything, but when you been punched in the stomach, like that first punch, and then you’re getting hit in the head, then right away that survival mode of fight, flight, or freeze or flee. You know, all of it.

Unknown Speaker 37:43
Boxing stuff, man, when you go against guys that have been training for a while. They’re training two weapons, they’re honing to these two weapons. And they hit so hard. You see, it’s like getting hit with a stone every time. Yeah. And at 130 pounds. You know, guys i i’d spar with and then you could drop me with a body punch. Yeah. You know, just because they’ve been doing it. And so one thing will say to people in jujitsu when they’re someone’s a little newer, and they’re like, I keep I keep doing what you tell me to do. I feel like I’m doing the technique. Right. But I’m going against him. And it’s not working my way. How long has he been training? Right? How long have you been training? Right? Right. So we say mat time? Yeah. Yeah. So we can have all the ideas. Same thing Satyen was saying, how do you get better at a horse stance,

CK LIN 38:32
you do the horse dance.

Unknown Speaker 38:34
So you can have all the things you’re thinking and trying to do? are probably correct. It’s just now it’s just putting in the time. Yeah, that makes the difference? Yeah. And we can translate that to every area of life. Yeah.

CK LIN 38:53
Yeah, that’s true. One of my ayahuasca epiphany was, you know, everyone says 10,000 hours. So if you look at, say, a professional fighter, and in your case, mat time, right, I might, you know, our, I don’t know. hundred, hundred 50. Whatever. Your login add 1000 2000 5,000 hours. Probably more. I’m just making stuff up. Yeah. And it right away. There’s no, it’s an obvious comparison there. So yeah, so it’s kind of disempowering to try to compare like, hey, why am I performing so poorly against Andrew? Weil? Of course he’s been,

Unknown Speaker 39:42
and yeah, it’s just the time is the time? Yeah. It’s just that those years of refinement? Yeah. And experience? Yeah. You know, it’s like, we could be both doing the same technique. And we both know how to do it correctly. But say, if I’ve been training longer, I have an awareness of everything else that’s happening around that technique.

CK LIN 40:06
All the nuances

Unknown Speaker 40:09
every little different scenario that can happen on the way Yeah, and doing that technique. And then, you know, doing it for years, I’m just inevitably, you’re doing it right. And I’m doing it more, right.

CK LIN 40:23
Yeah. It’s like the degree of rightness. So as a serious practitioner of transformational artistry, your point of view, what are some of the key areas of skills, key skills, one needs to master for their own self mastery, as well as a way to empower others, to awaken to live their best life. Just rattle off a few key skills from your point of view.

ANDREW MARSHALL 41:00
are you able to clarify that any further,

CK LIN 41:06
okay, maybe asking a different way, as a noble warrior. What are some of the key skills from your point of view, one must master, knowing what you know now.

Unknown Speaker 41:27
I think it’s the ability to be really present in your life. And be real about where you are, where you are in your life. In terms of your career, your relationships, what you want to be doing. The goodness, the things that you’re grateful for each day, just being really present and being really present with the people that are important to you, in your lives and present to those relationships. I think, if you want to feel happiness, if you want to feel any health, in that is key. That’s the key requirement. You know, that’s the point of it. And of course, to speak very generally, the ability to meditate, helps that tremendously.

CK LIN 42:20
So meditation is a, it’s a, it’s a tactical skill, one can learn and master in practice,

Unknown Speaker 42:26
which is a very general thing. There’s many as we were mentioning before, there’s many different forms of that. But the ability to meditate and have that kind of focus, and that kind of presence is necessary.

CK LIN 42:37
what other those skills are there other than meditation in general for my meditation?

ANDREW MARSHALL 42:49
key skills? So it’s a good question. I’m trying to speak like, trying to think broadly.

CK LIN 43:06
You mentioned also kindness as well. Right. Is there any way that one could practice being kind?

ANDREW MARSHALL 43:15
Yeah, I think that’s a part of part of presence. I think kindness is cultivated through practice. And being conscious through life experiences. Yeah, keys. Good. I guess not a lot of like, really clear answers are coming up as far as like really general key skills.

CK LIN 43:50
Well, you mentioned fitness, finance, faith and fun. And was the other one relationship with family? Or the enemy? Yeah. specific skills and Okay, so

Unknown Speaker 44:04
yeah, I mean, key skills. Again, in my life, the most important skills that I focus on, are having good relational skills, good communication. And being able to be present with people in a good way. Being able to be open with people in a good way in my life. Having good skills around business, and finances, knowing, understanding, finance, understanding business, and all the logistical steps, and everything that goes into running a business. You know, if you have something you’re very passionate about, usually people that are really passionate, don’t often like to be in a nine to five, that’s just paying the bills, right? You want to be growing your own business a lot of the time, not necessary, but a lot of people are that way. And so learning how to have good business skills and good finance skills is really important in the world. And then meditation and, and being able to relax.

CK LIN 45:16
Hmm, speak more about that. How do you practice been better at being relaxed. I’m pretty bad at that. That’s why I’m asking.

ANDREW MARSHALL 45:29
yeah, yeah. So yeah. Just really giving yourself permission to like, Fuck, I worked my ass off for 12 hours today, I can dislike whatever I need to get done. It can wait till tomorrow. It’s 8pm I’m just going to chill the rest of the night with my family or with a friend or have a beer and watch something. You know, watch my favorite Netflix thing or something? Just like, let yourself fully relax. Yeah, you know, or take a vacation. Yeah, you know, we talked about extreme laziness. That’s right here, work extreme, you can work really hard, but then give yourself permission to have extreme laziness. And if you fit in those times, we can kind of call it like a time of yin energy. You know, our world really glorifies the Yang energy. Active energy, always being active, always thinking about something always doing. But if we don’t incorporate that time for that Yin, relaxation, your mind quiet you’re not thinking about in your mind’s not rattling on about the list of everything that you need to do. You need that time in order to be successful in any kind of sustainable way. Over the years, and I’ve heard many a very, very successful coaches and business people, they talk about some of the greatest inspirations come from when they’re chillin on the beach somewhere. Or when they’re just, they’ve let themselves relax for a few days, and then all of a sudden that something pops for them, some creative pop comes out of that. rest and relaxation.

CK LIN 47:22
So let’s actually talk about them a little bit is a serious competitor. Professional fighter, transformation artists. How do you amp up the intensity for relaxation? how do you up the intensity for when you’re practicing transformation artistry or jujitsu? had a really like dedicated concentrated time and effort into that. And do you even think about that? Or do you?

ANDREW MARSHALL 47:51
Yeah, I think about it’s one of the hardest parts of my training. And one of the most important so I it helps me to think of sleep and relaxation as part of my training. And, like, for me, personally, I’ve made it now so like Sundays, I don’t Sunday’s the one day week. I don’t schedule anything.

CK LIN 48:15
That’s a non negotiable. Yeah, yeah. Great

Unknown Speaker 48:20
I’m usually good about that. Okay, good. All right. Good. So yeah, all right. But yeah, so like carving out one day a week where, you know, like, I don’t schedule anything on this day. Yeah.

ANDREW MARSHALL 48:33
And, you know, the way it is, like, if I’m working hard and training hard and, and doing everything to the fullest, then when it’s time for me to relax, I can really embrace that relaxation, knowing that I gave my all, to my doing, to my passion, to my art form, to my improvement. If I’m always giving my all to my improvement, it’s easy to relax. When it’s time that I’m at peace with myself. I’m not a peace with myself, it’s very difficult to relax. If I feel there’s always unfinished business, it’s very difficult to relax. So I think in order to enjoy relaxation, we got to be on top of our shit. Which I’m not pretending to be perfect at, but I’m always doing my best at it.

CK LIN 49:26
So a lot of people who are listening to this are probably overachievers like me, because like attracts likes, right? Yeah. So do you feel like it one may feel guilty? When they’re relaxed? Total and resting? Yeah. Do you feel like that may be the perfect time to neutralize or equanimize those charges? Those polarities?

ANDREW MARSHALL 49:50
Definitely. Yeah. Okay. Definitely. Good. Yeah. So to anyone listening, it’s like, you have guilt around relaxation, or you feel not not worthy of relaxation. Right. Without expounding how to do a whole accelerated evolution process, just feel that fully let yourself sit with that fully. And Okay, it’s time to relax. I feel guilty for even sitting down relaxing for X amount of reasons, right? Sit down and feel that guilt completely. do the opposite of what you’re probably doing is trying not to feel it. Okay, shut up guilt. I’m going to push you aside right now. So I could sit and relax and enjoy myself, we’re having a good time. Right? Sit down and take a few minutes to actually feel that guilt as fully as you can. And then magnify it, notice where you’re feeling it in your body. And then watch what happens there. Right, you may find that letting yourself feel it fully. may find that allowing yourself to feel it fully being with it, some clarity, might calm of where that’s really coming from, you may let that guilt fully express itself. So it’s had its peace, and now you can move on. Instead of just chatter in the background, you’re not listening to it, you may have a new insight on why you actually feel that guilt and realize, Okay, you know what, I don’t actually need to hang on to that.

CK LIN 51:23
Thanks for that. Yeah. The guys who are listening to this, and this is a very, very powerful process, even though it sounds super simple, but it’s as simple and extremely effective. So I really invite you to try that on

ANDREW MARSHALL 51:40
we have the principle that persistence causes or resistance causes persistence. Right, so in the principle of duplication that we follow, which just simply means feeling something fully, when we allow these things to be fully expressed. Ttheir intention is accomplished. And they can move on, if we think of that guilt, even give that guilt, the guilt as like an entity or person, you know, we let that guilt fully be satisfied in a way, in a healthy way, right. And then it’s not persisting,

CK LIN 52:25
agree. One metaphor that I share with others, is imagine whatever emotions comes out of you as a plastic ball or a balloon, you’re trying to push that below into the ocean by trying to suppress it, trying to ignore it, trying to bury it deeper and deeper. And then that is only going to have a greater reaction. So the moment that you lose your intention on that particular issue, guess what, it’s going to just come out and then burst out of the surface of the ocean and then just going to surprise you.

And then imagine so I came from a Chinese background. And I what I thought was stoicism was suppression of all these emotions, so was tons of different negative emotions in the in the underneath or the surface of the ocean, you have to like, spend so much energy trying to suppress all of them. And then when it comes out, I am surprised for some reason, right? rather than as you said, feeling this emotion fully and integrate these polarities in the research that I’m equanimize thus allowing me to operate from our most optimal state of being

ANDREW MARSHALL 53:54
and then I’d say, Okay, and then the key skill, compassion. Okay, so this guilt comes up. We allow ourselves to be fully present with that guilt, and then we have compassion for ourselves. Know that this guilt is just a visitor, this guilt is not you. So another helpful way of looking at the things that go on within ourselves as we can think of them as visitors, we have all kinds of visitors, visitors that come and go all all all day, all the time. The feeling of happiness, it’s even a visitor, it’s not mine. It’s not my happiness. It’s just happiness that is coming up in my mind in my body and my emotions, and it’s gonna leave again. It’s gonna come it’s gonna come. it’s gonna go, I’m gonna feel more happy than our times. I may. I may be someone where I can. I mean, I can genuinely say I’m underlying the I’m a happy person. Like, I can genuinely say that. But the feeling of exuberant happiness and not you know, it comes and goes and lesser degrees. So, guilt, just a visitor. don’t identify with it. It’s just you. Time to relax. Okay, there’s guilt again. Oh, yeah, I see you. I’ve seen you before you come over all the time. I don’t need I don’t need you to be here all the time. Like. I see you. Thank you. I know there’s more work to do. But I’m just gonna relax now. It’s just a visitor.

CK LIN 55:23
Got it. appreciate this. Thanks, my friend. So we have a few minutes left. What are some resources that you can direct people to if they want to cultivate some of these skills? compassion, physicality, intensity, aggression, perhaps? What are some of the key skill and meditation? What are some of the resources or books or seminars or courses that you can send them to them to really cultivate that?

Unknown Speaker 55:49
Yeah, definitely. Well, I’m biased to Brazilian jujitsu. I love jujitsu. There’s gyms and schools everywhere. If you’re feeling called to a new physical practice, just Google. You know, you live in LA, you live in Seattle, you live in Oklahoma. Whatever town city you live in Google jujitsu in your town city. Go check out a class. That could be a great practice for you

CK LIN 56:15
how do you know you meet a right teacher, though. Let’s just talk about that for a moment.

Unknown Speaker 56:19
Yeah, so I guess if you don’t have anyone in your life that knows jujitsu, the best you can do is go in and see how it feels, you know, most places will give you a free trial. You go in and you see how it feels to you. If you have someone in your life that you know, they’ve been trained in Jiu Jitsu for a while, then you go pick their brain about how would you know that? Yeah. Ideally, you want to go somewhere where they’ve got a black belt, who’s been teaching for a while, some places don’t have a black belt?

CK LIN 56:50
Gotcha. Thanks for that. Yeah. That’s beautiful. Great. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 56:55
And obviously, usually, there’s online reviews as well. And, you know, get go with connected students see if, if there’s a if there’s a student base, like, as a strong student base of people that have been there for a lot of years, then you know, it’s probably a good place. If you got people, a lot of people that have just clearly been coming and going out there for very long, well, that’ll tell you something, right? You want to go in and feel a school or a gym that has a tight knit community feel they’ve known each other for a long time, they’ve stuck around for a reason. David Deida is an amazing resource. So he’s got amazing books, intimate communion, Way of the superior man for the men out there. It is also an amazing book for women, in my opinion, because it it can for women that have not had a good masculine presence in their life. And they don’t have a good example of what a good strong man and masculine presence can be way of superior man could could show a woman what a man can really be like and look like. And they can look for that in men and know and see good signs and men, the kind of men they want to attract. And they can teach men how to be the kind of men that they really want to be. So that’s way of the superior man. intimate communion is amazing. Blue truth is amazing. So those are all great books by David Deida. Obviously, checking out warrior sage, or accelerated evolution Academy, anyone can come in and just learn those processes and see them for themselves. My businesses is Embody the practice. So it’s all about how do we bring the benefits from our practices into our daily lives. And that’s mental, emotional, physical and spiritual. So I have embodythepractice.com, and anyone can contact me through email or my phone numbers right on there. So you can just give me a call, and we can jam on. Tell me what’s going on in your life. We can jam on that. Let’s see if I can support you in that. And if I’m not the right person to support you in some moment, or direct you right to the next person who I know. You know, I know vast amount of just people who work with people one on one that are an amazing practitioners.

CK LIN 59:28
Beautiful. Yeah, Andrew, thank you so much for sharing your presence, your way of being, your practices. For those of you who are listening, I hope you really feel the transmission that Andrew has share with us so generously, the the gentleness, the the kindness, the masculine way of being, super grounded. So really, really appreciate being here on the show.

Unknown Speaker 59:53
I appreciate you having me, CK, and I could go on and on for hours. So thanks for having me on. Let me jam with you. And I hope that this, you know, facilitates a good impact for any of you that are listening. And you know, I just want to say from my heart from, from my heart and from the hearts of everyone that we work with in our community. You know, if you’re out there and you’re struggling with anything, we really are here to support you in the best way possible. We want everyone to, to know what it means to be at home in yourself to have healthy relationships to live a healthy, empowered life. So that’s our passion and we’re just, we’re really here for you. For real

CK LIN 1:00:38
Aho, aho, aho, aho, aho. Thank you, Andrew.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:41
So thank you. CK