Jan. 11, 2023

160 Pablo Gonzalez Vargas: Burning Man, Mayan Warrior, Healing and Transformational Platform

My guest is Pablo Vargas, the founder of the Mayan Warrior, a multimedia art vehicle that has been featured at Burning Man since 2012, and Ilumina, an interactive light and sound installation that made its debut at the festival in 2017. Outside of Burning Man, he has built a career in various industries, from e-payments to media to the visual and performing arts. He is the founder of Sr. Pago, one of the leading e-payment platforms in Latin America, and also the founder of EXA Radio and TV, a media outlet that targets the youth market. But it's not just his business acumen that sets Pablo apart. So, stay tuned as we discuss his journey, and the insights he has gained throughout his diverse and accomplished career.

(2:24) "Exploring the Mayan Warrior: Values and Symbolism"

(6:08) "Finding Vision through Peyote Ceremony"

(13:48) "Evolving the Mayan Warrior: The Journey So Far"

(18:05) "The Importance of Intention Setting in Theme Camps"

(19:15) "Defining the 'Warrior' Archetype"

(21:07) "Why Theme Camps are Transformative at Burning Man"

(25:46) "Lessons Learned as a Theme Camp Organizer"

(32:00) "Discovering Purpose: Defining and Living Your Purpose"

(42:58) "Advice for Midlife Entrepreneurs: A Message to My Younger Self"

(49:03) "Dreaming Big: What's Next for Me?"

(52:42) "Supporting Artists: Financial Tools for Entrepreneurs"

(57:12) "Making the Transition: From Corporate Roles to Purposeful Entrepreneurship"

(60:00) "My Definition of Success"

(62:57) "Healing as a Path to Wholeness"

(64:45) "Healing as a Means to Effortless Action"

(66:10) "Healing from the Trauma of Being Pushed Away from Passion"

(70:10) "The Modalities that Have Helped Me Heal"

(73:00) "Why Iboga Was Most Effective for Me"

(77:17) "Who Embodies Actualized Purpose Entrepreneurship and Artistry?"

(83:05) "Practices for Achieving Actualization"

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[00:00:00] CK: My next guess is the founder of the Mayan Warrior, a multimedia art vehicle since 2012. He's also the creator of the sound installation Illumina, which appear at Bernie Man for the first time since 2017. He's also the founder of Sebago FinTech company that helps the unbanked in Mexico. If you like what he's saying, follow him on IG Pablo GV or mayan warrior.com, and a special shout out.

Special thanks to Maria Sanchez Yaki of Sacbe for making this introduction. Please welcome Pablo Gonzalez Vargas.

[00:00:39] Pablo: Thank you so much CK Super happy to be here.

[00:00:42] CK: I'm really excited to have a conversation with you. I wanna share this with you publicly in your conversation with Amon Armstrong. You had said that your desire is to inspire and be inspire.

My experience of going to Burnman for the [00:01:00] first time in 2017 and encountering the Mayan Warrior our cart for the first time, it was, I remember very vividly, it was the Playa, which symbolizes for me our society, our world today. and you have beautiful extravagant arc archive from different places of, you know, of, of, of the playa.

And there was, um, my warrior with the big as lasers and, and sound you can hear across from the Delia. And I was like, Wow, they really go owe out to bring their gift to the playa. And it was, it left a significant impression. I still remember vividly that visual, and I actually didn't know this, but I didn't know the car travel 8,000 kilometers to be there.

So an extraordinary accomplishment. I just wanted to share that with you publicly. Thank you.

[00:01:57] Pablo: Thank you Zuki. I, I, I, I think what, what you just [00:02:00] described is the, the best part of, of Burning Man is to be inspired and it's a beautiful thing to be inspired in life. I think that's like the ignition and the motor for a lot of great things.

So I, my desire is for, for, for that to happen to all of us. Always.

[00:02:17] CK: Amazing. So, so for those people that don't know who or what is Mayan Warrior, why don't you tell us a little bit about what is it and what does it stand for?

[00:02:29] Pablo: Yes. So it's a collaborative, uh, project between a lot of professions, um, from Mexico, from all over the world at this point is a project that has grown for basically 10 years now.

And what we try to do is we are a platform, we're a platform for upcoming artists. Uh, as you know, Burning Men, The, the, the main dynamic is gifting, right? So we all work hard [00:03:00] year round to provide, um, that gift, which is our time effort. On the playa to inspire and to bring new artists right. And, and to really push them.

And the roots of the Mayan, um, are of course from Mexico. No, there's a lot of Mayan culture, a lot of witch culture, which is, um, the, the tribe from the Peyo Desert. And we're all big fans of their art. And also we're being very inspired, inspired by them and, uh, and by the, the Mayans. So I think it's, uh, uh, kind of like a representation of some roots of, of Mexico.

Some upcoming artists from Mexico. And also the project helps a lot of communities in need in Mexico. And I think that's where, where the gifting cycle really, um, is complete, [00:04:00] right? Extending that gift of Burning Man, because as many people know, uh, that they gives a burning and are completely, you know, without expecting anything in return, which is, uh, another subject and another beautiful dynamic.

Uh, I, I think that extending that, uh, to, to to, to the real world, to, to indigenous communities, I think it's a beautiful thing. So that's basically in a nutshell, what, what would we do in the Mayan

[00:04:31] CK: project? So, so what I'm hearing you say is that is a vehicle, literal vehicle that, uh, introduce the Mayan culture, the, the indigenous culture, uh, of Mexican.

Heritage And then, and that also is a way to, uh, as an ambassador to bring out the Burning Man experience to people who've never been to Burning Man as well. Is that an accurate reflection

[00:04:56] Pablo: of what you said? Yes. Yes, of course. We, we, we do [00:05:00] fundraisers, uh, around, uh, Mexico, US and, and other, uh, countries in Europe.

And at the same time, we help communities. So we do extend the Burning Man culture for people that haven't experienced it. Mm-hmm. And also we extend the gifting to the indigenous communities. So that's kind of like the cycle, and then we come back to the, to play and do it again. Mm-hmm. .

[00:05:23] CK: Mm-hmm. , uh, you are very liberal about talking about your, um, plant medicine experience.

I, I've heard you talked about it very liberally at. Different podcast, you know, with a Amen. Also with this other, I think his name is OCHO or something like that, the Spanish podcast. So, uh, why don't we go into that? Cuz our Nobel Warrior, we do talk about that a lot. I'm a student of iasa experiences.

Plant medicine is being quite a, a catalytic experience for me to open my eyes to have a spiritual experience. In fact, Noble Warriors started [00:06:00] because of, um, a spiritual experience, but we can get into that later. So if you don't mind getting into it more, um, what is the significance of your, uh, peyote experience and how did it help shape you with the vision of my.

[00:06:17] Pablo: Sure. I mean, um, I don't know if it's a good thing at this point in my career to be, uh, that open to that because I mean, things are, are changing very fast in that regard, right? Mm-hmm. , like it's not the same 10 years ago than five years ago. Mm-hmm. regarding that subject. Mm-hmm. . So, um, but I think it's, it's crucial and, uh, and as I think as Terrence McKenna said that we, we don't have 500 years, no.

We don't have, we, we need to do this fast. And I think the, and as he describes, it's like the, the, basically the only game in town and in, in the sense of [00:07:00] like, that's what can transform, uh, a human really fast, you know? And I think, uh, for

[00:07:06] CK: me, But why, why the urgency? That's, that's a question, because some

[00:07:10] Pablo: urgency mm-hmm.

well, from a. The urgency comes from, I mean, we are all aware of what's happening and what, what, what, um, in, in the world, right? Mm-hmm. . And I think, um, it's, as I see it is, I mean, we are all fighting our own battle, right? Mm-hmm. , and I think, uh, the collective consciousness is kind of like in a place that we're, we're, we're all seeing a lot of things.

No, but I think the critical mass of people that understand what they need to understand to like start to, you know, be aware of our surroundings and taking care of them, right? And other people. [00:08:00] Um, I think the fastest route to get there massively is through psychedelics. Mm-hmm. , I think. In, I mean, we, we, we, we know that, right?

It's the, the, the, the leap forward that you can make in one of those sessions with any, you know, known natural psychedelic, uh, it's, it's way faster than, than mm-hmm. years of therapy. You know, and I'm not discrediting therapy, you know, is super grateful, but I think it's a very good compliment at least.

Mm-hmm. know to, to really, um, you know, the, the, the, the what you see, you can call them teachings know of, of the plant or, or, or the spirit or whatever form you wanna like, see it as, uh, is, is very clear. It's kind of like an opening, clarifying, um, experience that makes you see. You know, um, your, your thoughts, your habits, [00:09:00] your doings and, and your relationship to the earth.

And, and a lot of stuff. A lot of stuff. So I, I think there, there, there are great, um, enablers and, and and therapy sessions, whatever is the plant you choose, uh, to, to really, you know, take a look inside yourself. Mm-hmm. , right? Um, so I think having a moment, uh, to get out of your baseline consciousness is, is a great opportunity to, to look at your life, you know, in another angle and just by that, you know, happening and you will get more insights.

Know, it's kinda like looking to a 3D model. If you always like see it from the same perspective. You only see one face, but you'll look at different angles, which is what happens with this, uh, experiences. You learn more and by learning more, you become more aware and better basically. Mm-hmm. , I think it's, it's, [00:10:00] it's

[00:10:00] CK: key.

Thanks for sharing your experience on Noble warrior. We do talk a lot about various plant medicine experience. For me personally, plant medicine has being, um, a game changer in just if you look at using your 3D model analogy mm-hmm. , uh, we look at the world through a certain lens and my lens was, uh, shall we say, a hypercritical one, right?

Looking at the gap between where I am and where I want to be and constantly looking at it. And that's very useful. At the same time, that has also doesn't, uh, give a very pleasant quality of life, so to speak. Uh, so prime medicine has been a great teacher for me to zoom out and look at my. Um, myself as a, as a player on this stage, on the stage.

And then, and then look at, oh, okay, and look at this character ck you know, how does he get to know himself better? How does he get to know other people better? How does he see himself as [00:11:00] the role of, um, that he plays to the greater humanity and allow me to learn lots of things. So I'm very, very grateful for my experience of, um, my employment as an experiences.

[00:11:12] Pablo: Yeah, that's a great, uh, yeah. Angle and way of looking at it.

[00:11:20] CK: And, and I think the more we can talk about this, uh, we can normalize these type of conversations cuz especially for the thought leaders, the influencers, the more they can share. Personal perspective, the more that people can say, Oh, okay. So it's not just, you know, uh, the hippies doing this, but actually, you know, very high functioning, uh, inspiring leaders also using, uh, these, uh, teachers to, uh, enhance the quality of life.

[00:11:51] Pablo: Yeah, no, totally. I, I think, uh, it's, uh, a matter of time, uh, sometimes I think from the ego standpoint, no, you want [00:12:00] things to be fast, right? Mm-hmm. , it's like the mind wants it to be fast. And, and, and we, we kind of like expect to, for this to happen very quickly. And I think, uh, from the other side of, you know, the observant, you know, the, the natural progression of this happening and permeating into, you know, society and, and, and, and after this happening, you know, eventually you will have leaders in, in, in, you know, Powerful places in, in, in, in, you know, the political landscape or the entrepreneurial landscape, making decisions and being part of this movement and, and being more aware.

So I don't know, I, I'm very excited to, to, to see what's gonna happen in the next, uh, 50 years. Mm-hmm. .

[00:12:50] CK: Mm-hmm. . Well, I mean, you are helping co-creating that, um, collective space to shift that collective consciousness, you know, a few thousand [00:13:00] people at a time. So one of the reason why I want to talk to think camp organizers is Burning Man's a huge, um, transformational container in itself, like 80,000 a hundred thousand people at a time.

And the theme camps are smaller containers. And, and my perspective is I want to talk to, uh, the transformational camps. So who intentionally design a space that shifts people's. Consciousness awareness, way of thinking. And uh, my warrior to me certainly is doing that. So if you don't mind going into more of the intentional design of this, this, this moving, uh, experience.

Uh, what, let's see. Yeah. What, what, what, Did you have this vision from day one back in 2012? Or was it a smaller scale than you slowly, uh, scale it up?

[00:13:57] Pablo: I mean, I think has been a, [00:14:00] uh, a progression. The, the, the initial vision was, came from, you know, a huge excitement of like knowing Burning Man and having the experience of of, of going and, and, and seeing everything that you see there and being inspired and, and like just wanting to participate next year.

No. Mm-hmm. , it, it came from, from, from that impulse of, of, wow, I, I wanna be a part of this and, and, and contribute. And I think a lot of people experienced that. And, and of course, uh, the, the, the, the project started to come together and, and I think at the beginning was more about, you know, Mayan calendar, the world ending on 2012.

Mm-hmm. , which was the first year of the project. And that was kind of like the first, uh, that mix with, you know, the, the, the sacred geometry, psychedelic indigenous art to run, uh, [00:15:00] Burning Man inspired kind of thing. Right. But as the years, um, passed and, and also having, um, you know, this plant experiences, you know, with the, with choles, with, uh, and, and peyote has been like very, I think has been one of the main, um, characters in, in, in my life and how they do the, the ceremonies that we choice is that you have a fire, right?

Mm-hmm. in, in, in, in the middle. A lot of them do, but the, the, they, they pay like a lot. A lot of the ceremony, the dynamic comes around the fire. Fire is super important, you know, And they have, they, they also have their own incense that they make, right? They have their own chance and they have someone that is guiding throughout the whole journey, right?

And so, I, I, I, I think I, I, we started [00:16:00] to, to see some, we, we wanted to emulate something like that, right? Mm-hmm. , so, so, When we go out

[00:16:09] CK: in, so like ceremonies on wheels kind of thing, kind

[00:16:12] Pablo: of like a ceremonies on wheel, which we have the fire, we, we burn. Uh, the, the, the, we usually bring the, the, which, when, when you can find some, because it's very difficult.

If not, we can find other ones. Uh, but uh, but anyway, uh, we, we, we, we have a special track that, uh, Mauricio made that says, Here comes the Warrior by Rero. And that's kinda like the theme song that we always put when we go out. It's kinda like a, a call for for warriors. No, kinda like a, a call to, to, um, to, to action.

You know? And, and, and, and we feel like, what are we battling? We're, we're just, uh, warriors of, you know, our, our [00:17:00] own battle of, of waking up and, and conquering your, your, your own self. Kind of integration. Mm-hmm. . So, and, and so there, there, there is a lot of, you know, genes of, of, of that thought incorporated into this.

Like this, the stage sound car ceremony on wheels while it moves. Right. And then when, when it stops, no, you have different, you know, sessions with different, um, uh, uh, DJs that I think if you reading between the lines of what a DJ does that, that there is more and more like awareness of the intention and, and the journey that they, they take you.

No, uh, it's not just playing music is, it is a journey in every journey. Every, you know, uh, intention of every DJ is different. So you can really plug into that and experience their, um,

[00:17:59] CK: Hey, quick [00:18:00] question on that note. Uh, cuz you mentioned that each DJ may have different intentions. Do you have conversations with each DJs and ask them what their specific intentions are before they perform?

Or you just kind of experienced it and, No, don't tell me what your intentions are.

[00:18:16] Pablo: No, I mean, it, it, it, it varies because some DJs you can have this conversation with them mm-hmm. right. About the intention and how important is that? And, and some of other BJs are they, they unconsciously doing do it and, and maybe they are not aware of what, what is happening.

So I think I, I, I have that conversation with, uh, a few of them, a few of them that, you know, kind like they, they, they really prepare, They really know, I mean, consciously do it mm-hmm. and, and I think we're, that, that's gonna happen more and more, of course. Mm-hmm. .

[00:18:55] CK: Mm-hmm. . And you said that it's a [00:19:00] ceremonial wheels, These are my words, not your words.

My interpretation. Yeah. and to, and the goal is to activate something. Right. Taking action towards something you said earlier, um, by the way, Warrior, why noble warrior here? The definition of warriors having the courage to lean into the discomfort. Mm-hmm. to discover oneself. So when you said what you said, like that's, to me the same definition.

[00:19:26] Pablo: I, I love it is beautiful. Yeah. Leaning into good comfort. That's, that's the place you, you have to be know to, to evolve. I, I I'm gonna, I'm gonna let adopt that .

[00:19:38] CK: Please do, please do. Let's, let's propagate this, this thing. Yes.

[00:19:43] Pablo: Yeah. And, uh, and so that, that, that's what happens, uh, out in the playa. But I think the main transformational experience for me at least, and, and for my colleagues is at the camp.

Mm-hmm. at the camp. And I think, uh, what happens there, and I think. , [00:20:00] everybody that builds a company, builds anything on the play, has experienced this, uh, dynamic of, um, you know, it's a journey from beginning to end. The, the whole burning and experience and, and, and, and this discomfort that, that you were talking about, do you, you really lean into that because I mean, in the, in the real world, uh, whatever organization you're in, no.

Everything is, Hey, you have to do this because you have to do it. Mm. Because that's your job and you're receiving a salary for it, So, mm-hmm. , So the, the, the recent you're there is, is very, you know, narrow, No. Going into a collaborative space to kind of like survive and make a home and, and, and try to, uh, share, you know, the, the.

The loa [00:21:00] of, of building something like that because people don't know. But, but, but it's, it's a big task to, to build something on the fly. A big, big task. I, I think is one of the most extreme things I've done, um, in, in my life for my mind and my, my, the spirit and my health. Right? Because you get very little sleep.

Mm-hmm. , you have a lot of, uh, you know, pressure and, and, and, and by pressure, people may think like, Whoa, what do you mean? Pressure? Like, Okay. It's like you're in the middle of the desert. And if the basic stuff, if the basic services of, or the basic stuff of the camp doesn't work, I mean, you're, you're, you're in a very tight situation.

You don't have water. No. In the middle of the desert if you don't have food, If, um, If you don't have, uh, energy, no for, I [00:22:00] mean you, you, you really start to appreciate wow, like how in a city can you just open your, as the, the, the, the, um, the sink, um, what do you call that? Um mm-hmm. and, and you, you have water there.

Mm-hmm. always, your, your power no magically appears, magically. You go to the restroom, just flush a toilet and boom goes away. Mm-hmm. , all of that. And, and, and I think that reconnecting to the basic, um, elements of survival, I think it's very transformational for everybody that experiences that. And also between your, you and your colleagues, because you get a lot of emotions.

Emotions of like rage or you get super angry or, and then you get like super happy and it is a roller coaster of emotions that you have to like very be really aware. Of how to react to like tough situations [00:23:00] because we've seen camps and these like little tribes and these little communities break apart really easy.

Mm-hmm. , if you look at the story of any camp at Beman, very few survive more than three years, No, and even less five years. So that's a constant kind of like, Kinda like when you're having a, a, a discussion that you, you, you're, you're have you be aware of your reactions and your mind is, is a very meditative, meditative, how do you say it?

Meditative. Meditative, sorry. Meditative, uhhuh experience of like just watching your thoughts and watching your emotions and not engaging in those critical moments where you wanna just strangle your , your colleague of like, I have, because we're all doing the work, right? So I think, uh, that, that, that alone, that [00:24:00] experience alone is, is, is very reconnecting, very transformative for all of the members.

And that makes a community a tight community that, um, extends after the burn. You know, And I think that also kind of like has its own life and its own growth. And it touches other areas outside the, um, burning man. So I think that's, that's talking about, you know, the transformative, um, aspects of burning.

I think that's a huge one. I think that's the most, uh, important one is that sense of community, uh, with, with, with, you know, encountering the frictions that, uh, the play has. And, and, and that also goes to building art. A

[00:24:44] CK: thousand percent. A thousand percent. So like, quick pause, Um, Burning Man is a harsh environment through and through right desert, No, no electricity, no water, obviously.

And obviously no food. There's no seven 11 around the corner to [00:25:00] go to some groceries, right? So you gotta take everything in and also within seven days, two weeks, break everything down again. So it's a beautiful experience for me to witness the desert. Nothing entire city breaks down to nothing. Question real quick.

How big is the camp for, um, Mayan Warrior for May end

[00:25:23] Pablo: is between one 40 and one 60

[00:25:26] CK: Beautiful people. So what a 10 years of inspiring people to go to the desert, working in harsh environment, high heat, no shade, you know, for weeks at a time. You, you had said when you were there, you were there for three weeks, Right.

Um, what are some of the, um, the major lessons that you learn as a leader to create a container to, uh, you know, for 160 people?

[00:25:57] Pablo: I think, I think, uh, [00:26:00] oh, okay. Well first of all, I'm, I'm kind of used to that dynamic because, um, the real world, I, I, I'm an entrepreneur that's, I, as you said, I, I have a startup.

Well, I sold it last year, but it was also 10 years of, of building and Oh, I didn't know that. Congratulations. No, thank you. Yeah. And, and, and by doing that, you're kind of like boss, friend, psychologist, partner, all at the same time. And I think, uh, that helped me a lot to, to kinda like to deal with the top situations at the camp.

And I think that the, the best lesson for me is to, to, to just don't react. Just don't react and detach yourself to the emotion that you're feeling in the moment of serve it. And, and, and just also use [00:27:00] time as your tool because it's not, it's very different to, to confront someone right. On the. Then half an hour later, you know?

Mm-hmm. , or an hour later, well, where things cool down or, or maybe months know, it's like you have to like let the experience, you know, pass and, and, and then give it another iteration in another, and kind of like put the pieces in a different way and, and talk to each one. Because we all, we're all humans.

We're, we're all, we, we all have emotions. We, we forget that in the corporate world you're talking about your friends, your community. In a situation like that, we have to be super careful. It's family, it's families who, you cannot treat family as a, you know, hierarchy. Businesses. That's, that's where people get confused at.

Mm-hmm. at Burning and they [00:28:00] think. I mean, they're all kind of known. They know each other most of the time, but most of the time they're friends and, and, and they enter into a, you know, hierarchy situation that they trying to like extrapolate what happens and, you know, in a, in a company there. So that doesn't work.

That doesn't work. So that they, the conversation and the tone and, and, and, and the leading by example is, I think the, the key to, to, to that. No, because first you, you, you do it and quietly people will see, you know, and everything will follow. So it's less about talking and giving is the, you know, uh, um, directions or, or orders, but like doing it first yourself.

Mm-hmm. , I think, uh, that, that, that, that's, that's very, very important. And in our camp is half of the people at our camp. Work. So I work in the sense of like, they have a [00:29:00] very, um, crucial task running something mm-hmm. . So yeah. So like we, we, we do this, the Illumina, this piece of art and, and, and you have different shifts throughout, throughout the, the, the week and, and, and kitchen.

But it's the, the car, the what we gift also at the camp. You go at the camp there is like a cow and I mean all camps do that, but I think in our case we're very, as the work centric, as the provide to provide the experience. So, so we are in a mission cut of the camp.

[00:29:41] CK: Mm. Quick question there. I was speaking to, uh, actually many.

You are, I think you are think camp number seven, that I'm only number eight that I speak to. So I talk to, uh, Mystic, um, Play Alchemist, Kim, Epic, all these different camps. Right. And [00:30:00] providing big experiences to, to the Playa. And one thing I notice is most camp organizers don't become consumers of other like experience cuz they're holding the for down, so they're managing the, the producing of the event itself.

Do you, uh, find yourself mostly holding that, holding the post of, Hey, um, let me make sure that this, this experience happens for as a gift to the player. Or do you also find some free time to go out and experience and, you know, be the consumer of. Apply? No,

[00:30:39] Pablo: I think I only did that my first year back in 2011.

The rest is just, I see things from a bar , just like, and, and that's it. Because like for us, um, we, we, we start to, you know, operate the car at six, no 5:00 PM for person's sunset, uh, set. [00:31:00] And we don't stop until 10 in the morning. Mm-hmm. and, and from 10 breakfast sleep, wake up at four, eat back again. And that's, that's kind of like the loop.

And there is different teams, but myself, I try to go to like every day, you know? Mm-hmm. . And this, this year I did kinda like, did my scape, uh, discovery, you know, quick, uh, You know, for looking around with my girlfriend and, and I think that's the, the first year I did it for like, just for an hour and came, came back to see the art.

I love seeing the art at the play. Mm-hmm. , see how they did it and stuff like that. But, uh, yeah, I think, I think that's what happens to, to most of the, you know, the, the people that are running art or, or camps or art cars.

[00:31:56] CK: So, on Noble Warrior we also talk a lot about purpose. [00:32:00] What's your definition on purpose?


[00:32:03] Pablo: definition of purpose? Mm-hmm. ,

[00:32:06] CK: how do you define it? And then also what is your perspective? Your purpose.

[00:32:12] Pablo: Yeah. Well, Hmm. Got, got off guard with that.

[00:32:21] CK: Yes.

How about this while you think. Let me articulate why I asked that question. Is that cool with you? Yeah, sure. All right, awesome. So my friends and I were having these discussions about micro purposes and macro purpose, right? So ma micro purposes could be, Hey, let me be self-sustainable, take care of my kids, you know, college funds and you know, so on and so on, right?

Some smaller in scope. And then there's the selfless [00:33:00] purposes, like the greater purposes, the Maha dma, so to speak, right? You know, what's my contribution to humanity? And, and I'm asking that question basically, is I want to know cuz you, the way you articulate your relationship of being the producer versus consumer, you're very selfless, you know, you're producing this as a gift.

So I just wanted to know, you know, at what point became, um, self. Self-center purposes to selfless purposes. Right. Okay. Anyway, a very, very long, long No, I'm curious to know your

[00:33:37] Pablo: perspective on No, that's super interesting. I, I think there is like different levels of, of purpose. Mm-hmm. for sure. No, and I think it, it starts, uh, with the self-centered purpose.

Why? Because I think, um, like Burning Man, I see it as a giant sandbox, a giant [00:34:00] playground, and it gets in, you can get in touch with your 10 year old self mm-hmm. playing with whatever you have at hand in the sand with your other colleagues and, and, and, and I think that to, to be playful and to have that experience inside yourself, I think that's, that's the first like block of, of this, that's where, where it started.

So I think that's self-centered. Like I want to feel that I want to come back, I want to reconnect with my inner child through this. Uh, another layer is, um, I mean I, I, I rather be working, quote unquote, but burning and than, than consuming. And that's like general across the board in my life. I, I, I rather be doing stuff.

It's more interesting and, and fun to me.

[00:34:59] CK: Do you mind double [00:35:00] clicking on that real quick? Why is that? Because that's unusual, that's most people want to, Yeah. Most people want to consume, experience, Enjoy versus. Sweating and, you know, stressing out about, you know, timetables and budgets and things like that.

Yeah. So, so say more about why you find enjoyment in working and producing.

[00:35:23] Pablo: Okay, so , the Ken from the 7 47 project told me like, Beman was vacations for workaholics.

No, but I think it, it has to a deeper layer to it because the, the, the, let's call it reward and maybe not the, the, the right term because it's in another like plane, But the reward that you get from doing stuff at Burning [00:36:00] Men mm-hmm. , you really strike, uh, uh, something inside you because there is. A resonance of like, and it has to do with the gifting, right?

The gifting when you, when you give, uh, and you are contributing to something bigger than yourself is like, it's, it's a very high frequency feeling. Mm-hmm. and, and it's coming back in a, in a feeling. It's not coming back in some other form and, and, and in life to experience that is, is, is amazing. I think that's what people that do work with their hands to, you know, like, um, I have a friend that, uh, Marty from, from Maxa, the other came from from Mexico, that he goes, uh, some weekends to, you know, help build houses for [00:37:00] people in need.

Right? And, and, and, and I think that's a element in, in our lives. as important as doing exercise, as important as, you know, spirituality, as you know, uh, any, any other important pillar to, to feel, you know, that you are, um, that to feel balanced and to feel aligned and that gifting, that being part of something, uh, does that No, and I think, uh, I, I have mentioned it a lot because I think that what, that's what happens at Burningham is, is a, the, the, the whole gifting economy, when you take the transaction layer out, you experience what we may experienced, uh, thousands of years ago when we were surviving in, in, in tribes, right?

So I think we, we, we are tapping into that. We don't know it, but it feels amazing. So maybe that's the, the reason, [00:38:00] um, of selfless self selflessness, uh, uh, working at Burning Man. And I think the other layer is the self-expression. Mm-hmm. . Right. And I think when you stop expressing yourself, and if you look at the universe, everything is wired for creation.

Mm-hmm. , nothing is not that. So the collision of stars and the appearing of planets and the appearing of life and then life itself is just like not creating itself. And, and, and, and it's a never ending of that ourselves. No, I I I, I heard this super funny phrase from Will Farrells. Mm-hmm. . That, that he said that, um, everything we do is to, to get late

[00:38:58] CK: To get late l a i d [00:39:00] to get late.

[00:39:00] Pablo: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uhhuh. So, uh, it was a very funny, um, Think he said, Uh, uh, but I, I tie it to, you know, it's, it's the pro creation. Mm-hmm. , that's, that's the, the inner, you know, most, uh, inner core thing of, of ourselves. Kinda like the, the, this, like fish that does a mandala in the, in the sand.

Right. Beautiful. Just to, you know, to, to mate, you know, And, and, and you see that all around. So anyway, the point is that expression, which is creation, is a core part of ourselves and we need to do it and we don't do it. We, we, we feel shitty. Mm. And, and can be in any shape or form, but I think it's just us going to the gym, getting well, you know?

Mm-hmm. expressing, you know, being part of something [00:40:00] bigger and, and gifting. Self selfless gifting. So I think those, those two, no, um, really, um, collide at, at burning, but, but, but unfiltered expression, which you don't see is very rare. Mm-hmm. , no. Usually you have the client or the, you know, the, the company, their whatever, like putting your, their hands on your creation.

No, and it's never just the pure creation. It's very rare. Anyway, so, uh, I think the, going back to purpose, you know, the, the, the, the purpose of connecting with that feeling, the purpose of expressing, the purpose of, you know, um, community and, and gifting. And, and, and, and if you tell me what's, what's purpose, I think that's the, the, the, the, it's kind of like this, this force.[00:41:00]

This inspiring force inside of you that, you know, uh, makes you, if the makes it so something has meaning and Yeah. And so what is my purpose? I I, I think it has a lot of levels in different planes and different, and it's either with my own circle, with my, No, it's the reconnecting with my, expressing with no, the putting the project out there to extend the, the, the culture of, and making also the other purpose of making the whole thing round, you know?

So the gifting is, is a loop, a loop from burning men to the outside world and funding, you know, through is the, the project and the, the helping of communities through fundraisers so we can come back. And I, that's, that's one another level of, of purpose, right? And also going back to the, you [00:42:00] know, plants and consciousness.

Um, uh, uh, yeah. I think that also is a, a great purpose to get that message and culture out.

[00:42:11] CK: Mm. So what I'm hearing you say, um, well, number one, the overarching direction is to create a container to create for yourself. Mm-hmm. as an expression, as a natural expression of who you are, and also, um, inspire others to do the same.

In a nutshell, that's what I got from,

[00:42:34] Pablo: that's, that's, that's a very good, um, way of, in just to Yeah. Narrowing it down for sure.

[00:42:43] CK: So, I know that in your early twenties when you first sold your company, I think it was 2000. You went to India because you were experiencing some existential crises, right? Yeah. So what, knowing what you know right now, what would you [00:43:00] say to that person who is experiencing existential crises about, I don't know what the all this is for, you know, I'm successful in this and that, but it still feels empty and it doesn't quite fulfill my soul.

What would you say to that person knowing what you know today?

[00:43:20] Pablo: That is a beautiful process. Yeah. And, and, and, and, and just like be grateful that you're leaving that process in the grand scheme of things. You know, looking back and, and, and being totally objective. That that's, that's what it, it is. I think if.

There is a saying in Spanish, I don't know if it if it exists on in English. It's like, nothing, nothing of wrong or no, everything of wrong and evil turns [00:44:00] into, uh, there is no way that it doesn't turn into a positive, right? Mm-hmm. , mm-hmm. , there is no way to, to escape that kinda like law. So yeah. As, as humans, any crisis, any inner searching.

And I think the experience of losing yourself and, and finding yourself again and, and, and knowing you and leaning into discomfort so you can, you know, push through your dramas to transmute them and to like dissolve them so you can be more whole again. And, and going through those scars that. Feels like it's super scary.

I mean, that process is beautiful. That, I mean, what, what better thing than that? Oh,

[00:44:56] CK: yeah. So, so what I'm hearing you say, what you're saying to the younger [00:45:00] self, the people who are experiencing existential crisis right now is trust the process. Do your best to enjoy it. You will appreciate it later on, and learn the lessons.


[00:45:11] Pablo: Yeah. Mm-hmm. ? Yes.

[00:45:14] CK: Mm-hmm. . Well, here, let me, let me be the skeptic and push back. Right? Let me speak on their behalf, but it's so painful. I don't want this, I, I need to get out of paying right now.

[00:45:29] Pablo: Well, no, no pain, no gain. I mean, we all, we all know that. So why would it be different with your emotional process?

Yeah. Mm-hmm. , it's exactly, exactly the same. Thank you. Yeah. Same dynamic. Yeah.

[00:45:48] CK: Well, here's my assertion, Pablo. What Mayan warrior is providing in the playa of the playa is to keep, give people that space of [00:46:00] inspiration so they have that spaciousness to relax and be inspired. Like, oh, you know, life is great.

Life is fun, life is full of joy. Let me access that. And, uh, if Pablo can, you know, attract all these artists to bring their beautiful creation to the playa, maybe I too can do the same. Bring it to the player, bring it to the planet and bring something that's unique. Not only I can bring. So that's something that you're not saying those words, but that's what I get from experiencing Illumina, mind warrior, all the musicians, all of the DJs.

That's the vibe that I get. Like, Hey, it's possible. Let me figure out, let me get inspired. What could I bring to this soup of

[00:46:53] Pablo: humanity? Whoops. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Then I, I, I love that and I think [00:47:00] people experience that at some degree, at Burning Man or, or even in our events. No, we invite a lot of artists to, to do their, their arts and to put.

Like in, in, in, in, kinda like replicate a mini version. Mm-hmm. mini version of Burning in the event where people that haven't been to Burning Go and, you know, see other people that are like more, uh, free, more expressive, and this other pieces of art that are interactive, that are very out of the ordinary, you know, because are also pure expression.

So I think that whole container, as you mentioned, know kinda like plants a little seed to like wanting to know more or experience more of that or do it know themselves. So yeah. Yeah, I think it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's really, uh, yeah, what happens at the burn and what we try to extend. [00:48:00]

[00:48:00] CK: So your experience.

Producer and you have now new canvases that you can play. Right? There's the real world, there's Burning Man, right? The best one. Right. Whole new canvas without any commodification and all those things. Economy. And there's the everyday default world right off Burning Man. And then there's the virtual world, the meta space.

I know you talked about that as well. When you think about scaling this intention, this container of transformation, of inspiration, what's your perspective of using all these different canvases to help you forward this movement that's called, uh, Mayan Warrior?

[00:48:45] Pablo: Mm-hmm. . But, but, but the question.

[00:48:49] CK: Sure. Um, sorry.

Let me, let me see if I can ask in a more succinct way. Um, you have different canvases, Burning Man Off, Burning Man meta spaces. [00:49:00] How do you. What's the dream? What's the dream? What's the vision to, uh, of this movement,

[00:49:10] Pablo: man? Like, Okay. What would inspire me is to, um, scale this, the message, the project, um, the ethos, the intention to beautiful places around the, the globe.

I think, um, that, that will like, be very, um, inspiring for me. No, I, I have to be the first one to be inspired to, to push this, but, uh, but I think, uh, okay, so the, the, the situation here is that you have the 10 principles of Burning Man, right? Mm-hmm. , deification. [00:50:00] and, um, you know, that, that it's, it's very clear the culture is very defined at burningham and commercial is commodification and, and it's different.

How can we respect both worlds, right? Mm-hmm. and, and to scale something, right? I think we're trying to figure out that, like, okay, that's why we're a nonprofit. That's why we want to make everything as transparent next year so people know like every single cent where it goes and how we help and the whole meaning of the project.

So they kind of like get it more. No, and and with that, uh, foundation, scale it, scale it so we can help more, so we can give, get the message across further in, in all places. Not all places, but like in, in, [00:51:00] in, I think the world is amazing and there is the, the, the very inspiring spots around the, the globe that we could like do something like this and, and, and, and bring more artists and fun other art projects to bring into the experience.

So they can also go to Burning Man, and, and we can, I think we can do a whole ecosystem that is aligned, you know, with the culture, with the details, and also can live in the outside world. So, and, and, and so they don't, they don't, they don't mix, but they can like live together. So yeah, if you ask me, um, I, I would love to.

To do that.

[00:51:43] CK: Mm. So what I'm hearing is having a platform to support these artists so that either they cohabitate or collaborate together and to be able to make more art. This is what I'm saying. Exactly what

[00:51:56] Pablo: I'm hearing. Exactly. Because like at the end it all comes down

[00:51:59] CK: to funding. [00:52:00] Mm-hmm. . So on that note, you are a very unique person to ask this question of, Cause I talked to think Kim organizers who are like coaches, entrepreneurs, but, and who are like artists, you know, who are anyways, but you are, you have unique perspective.

You're both an artist and also a FinTech entrepreneur. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. So, so that makes your, your perspective, if anyone who could think about ways to, uh, fundraise or finance or patronize these artists, Right. I think you'd be that guy cuz you understand the artist's mind, you understand the financial instruments to help support that.

What are your ideas to, to do that at this moment? Yeah.

[00:52:46] Pablo: Well, , I mean, at the end

[00:52:49] CK: I have to put you on the spot or anything. No, no, no,

[00:52:51] Pablo: no, no. But I, at the end, uh, any, any organization, you can look at it as a machine. Mm-hmm. any, Right. And the [00:53:00] machine needs fuel. Mm-hmm. period. Mm-hmm. . Right. And, and, and, and it has to be self-sustainable.

Mm-hmm. , Right. And so that it can grow mm-hmm. . So, eh, i, I, I think, uh, those are like the, the, the basics of it. And I think, uh, there is a good opportunity to, to kinda like mix the, the, the artists on a platform like this that is a nonprofit. I think that, that, that's important because it will actually

[00:53:38] CK: double click on that.

To me, Profit for profit and non-profit is a taxation distinction between the two. Is there anything beyond that? What's the difference in your mind of why Non-profit foundation or, or, uh, Besides,

[00:53:54] Pablo: besides the tax, No. Mm-hmm. , It's not a business. Uhhuh, It's not a [00:54:00] business. No, it's not like you have shareholders getting dividends.

So if you don't have that, you can put it into the project again. I mean, most companies do that in their early days, but, um, I think, uh, if this, if you can make it so it's always like that, no, you can hit a critical mass, that you can really start to make an an impact. How do you make an impact? You need resources.

How do you get the resources? No. So. I'm trying, We're, we're, we're figuring out how to do it, and I think we need to have, you know, conversations with the community burning man org to see like, Hey, how do we feel we can fit all these pieces? You know, that, that, that for this to happen and that can feel right, you know?

Mm-hmm. give a good [00:55:00] message. So, I mean, we're, we're, we're in that process. We're in that process. Uh, I think maybe 2023 no will be, is the not a cash flow negative. Mm-hmm. Project , because you can talk to whomever at Burnman. Mm-hmm. , you know, my God, that's, it's, is like, it costs a lot. Mm-hmm. in all levels, you know?

Mm-hmm. . So I think it's a, it's a great challenge. It's a great challenge that. I mean, I'd rather do that once I, like stop my entrepreneurial life, rather do that than another startup or like, you know, I think it's more inspiring for me.

[00:55:47] CK: Yeah. One, one of the things I definitely feel you, whenever you speak at the, Your heart, you're an artist and, um, you know, we can talk about why you started FinTech [00:56:00] companies or you know, this type of things with your father and, and is it a separate topic, but you know, a heart.

A heart? What I felt is, uh, your, you know, an artist.

[00:56:10] Pablo: Yeah. I can, can, can't wait to, to do that full time. Really?

[00:56:15] CK: Oh, okay. So yeah. Actually one thing I noticed about your LinkedIn, you have multiple things that's happening still. So you're like, instead of serial entrepreneur, you're a parallel entre. Um,

[00:56:27] Pablo: yeah, yeah.

Circumstances have, um, brought me to, you know, to to this point where, yeah, I kind of like need to do different things, but I mean, after a while it is like, what is this all about and what really fulfills me? And uh, and I think everybody should like ask that question at some point.

[00:56:49] CK: So for the people who are, I call them modern householders, right?

Who are thinking about, hey, I have responsibilities to my [00:57:00] employees, to my family, to my kids. Yeah. And there are also projects that I find more purpose, more meaning, and I'm either finding a good balance between them or transitioning to that. What would you say to those people who are also in similar.

Shoes who are grappling with their life decisions.

[00:57:20] Pablo: Okay, man, that's a, that's a tough one. Um, it's easy to say, follow your passion and the money will come later. Right. We hear that a lot. Um, I think, um, it's true. I think it's true. And I think every year it gets easier mm-hmm. , because we come from a place where like just big companies and you get a job mm-hmm.

and there was no other way to like, make a, a living or, or make a company. And now, uh, I, I think, uh, it's easier to, you know, to [00:58:00] have the thread of between your passion, your calling, and to make it a business, not a business to sustain yourself doing that. I think it's easier, uh, every, every, as time goes, goes by.

So I will say just like follow that, you know, And, and of course there is some, some just the endeavors or disciplines that are like easier to monetize than others. I understand that also. But, uh, but at the end, I mean, what are you, the question of of how would you rather spend your time always there doing something that you don't like or you like.

So I think you have to like deep look into your or yourself and sacrifice maybe stuff that you need to sacrifice because man, doing something that you don't like, it's like, it's heavier than anything, [00:59:00] I think. Mm-hmm. . Oh, maybe.

[00:59:03] CK: Yeah. So for people who is looking at my Warrior as a great example of success, , Right?

You have, you're impacting thousands of people. You have the brand, you are collaborating with world class artists and, and creators. Mm-hmm. . And that you're impacting people all over, you know, North America and South America. Mm-hmm. . Um, what would you advise, you know, other, uh, creative entrepreneurs who is looking at you as a exam, as a, as a success example, you know, in terms of creating a movement, creating marketing, creating this very cohesive experience mm-hmm.

you need specific advice for those people who are thinking about, you know, just, just in terms of movement and marketing and these type of questions. [01:00:00]

[01:00:00] Pablo: Oh, man, that's a, that's , that's a very high level. Um, okay, so first of all, I mean, what is success? Right. If I look at the Mayan project, I mean the, the potential is way bigger, you know, and we, we are very small project compared to, No, it's a very niche, small mm-hmm.

project that, so I mean, it's, it's working. No, but it needs a lot of more work and dedication to like, to reach a point that like, hey, this is, this is successful because does like very impactful things in, in, in, in, in altruistic ways and, and it's beautiful. There is a lot of angles to it, you know? Mm-hmm.

and success is, means

[01:00:51] CK: different things. Right. What does it mean for you? Success,

[01:00:56] Pablo: um,

[01:01:00] means some to do something that it's, uh, aligned. Aligned that, and that, that is, uh, coherent. That's, that's very difficult because man, I mean life. It's is very, very, and, and I think it's a reflection of ourselves, right? The more aligned we are, it's the more clear, the more coherent means that, you know, there is less divisions inside you, right?

And the, and it's more a more solid one piece thing. And I think when you look at companies and, and, and, and projects and you find contradictions, you find some stuff that doesn't work. It's, it's kind of like the same thing, right? Mm-hmm. . So I think, uh, success is, [01:02:00] is, is, yeah. What we all want actually to, to be whole.

To heal everything that you have, um, inside and, and eventually anything outside will be a reflection of that and, and vice versa, maybe, maybe mm-hmm. , I don't know. So yeah, I don't know if that answers the,

[01:02:26] CK: Well, well, I went, I went to

[01:02:28] Pablo: HiPE on the, on the, on the

[01:02:29] CK: response. No, not at all, actually. So a Nobel warrior, we do talk about this a lot.

I, my personally, have a course that's all about supporting and empowering entrepreneurs to be more purpose driven. So in my mind it's a spectrum, right? So there's the awakening space stage, and there's the people who is, you know, maybe yeah. Fully, fully self actualized as a purpose driven entrepreneur.

And in my mind, the first thing to do is, Healing is coming back to wholeness. [01:03:00] Yeah. Because if you create something based off on not being whole, all your creation is wounded in some ways. Right. So in my mind, it is very important to come back to wholeness or at least functionally whole, functionally whole.

[01:03:14] Pablo: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think, um, that's super important, or the most important thing I can say. Right. Because when the, the, the, the more whole, the more healed you will have the emotional strength to, to do a lot of stuff that maybe no, we're not doing right now. Right. Because everything there, there is a car of, of fear in everything.

Mm-hmm. , you know, and I remember Madonna in an interview, ,

[01:03:48] CK: Madonna, the singer, Madonna,

[01:03:50] Pablo: the singer in an interview, Which man that that girl pushed limits for sure. regardless, or of the other stuff. But [01:04:00] she said like, uh, every day do something that no, it fear you. Mm-hmm. that fears you. Yeah. So, so I think is is that there's a curtain of every of your, in everything, so that the, the stronger you are, the, the more whole and the more healed.

No, the less, um, that curtain is gonna be there in different aspects. So yeah, I think it's super, super important and I think that's the work, That's the work that we have to do. And that's the most meaningful thing. No, I, I, we can do on, on, on this

[01:04:39] CK: life. I really like the way you phrase it, by the way, because I thought about processing or coming back to wholeness as a place of strength, but I didn't think about it from a place of boldness or courage.

I love that you basically, in my mind, what I interpret what you said is if you come back to wholeness, then you can be [01:05:00] more bold, be more courageous, take a bigger actions. That that's what I, you know, interpreted what, what you said. I was like, Oh, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I appreciate that.

[01:05:09] Pablo: Yeah. I, I think it is not even boldness for courage in that, and I think you just do it because there's not, you don't have the scar anymore.

Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . No, I mean, you need the, the, the boldness and the courage to like, go through the pain or the trauma or the, Yeah. And I think, yeah, you're right. I think while you do it, uh, outside, when you go through the, the court of fear, that's also a healing process, right? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , you can also go through that and, and, and heal that part of you, you know.

[01:05:46] CK: So, speaking of, if you don't mind, I want to get a little personal with you. You had shared in your previous interviews that your father discouraged you to pursue your passion, and he wanted you, quote unquote, [01:06:00] do something. I think the words was, was more scalable, Right. More meaningful, uh, and so forth. How are you with that right now today?

Have, have you heal from, you know, that dissuasion of going, moving towards what you truly

[01:06:19] Pablo: desire? Right. Right. What I really wanna do, . Mm-hmm. , right? I mean, how is it now? I mean, it's logical. I understand why my father said, Hey, like, stop doing silly stuff. Do something that is gonna like, support you, you know?

And, uh, And I think that's a lot of the baby boomer, um, uh, way of thought, right? Mm-hmm. and, and the baby boomer is no, their fathers, their parents. Before it was like, Hey, you're gonna be a doctor, period. No, [01:07:00] you are going to be, and you are gonna be the same. No. So I think in, in, in, in evolution terms, right?

You come, we come from, from the, the previous generation through the baby boomers of like, you have to be this. Then the baby boomers to us a little bit more open and from our generation to the next one, you know, like my son, I have a 16 year old son. Mm-hmm. like, hey, like, do, do whatever you want, but just like, whatever it is, it's fine.

And just need to, to, to find it and, and, and explore, you know, So it's a very different message from the one I got. So, At the end, what I see myself happening in me is that, uh, I, I, I, I lift the process of the, the evolution of, of that generation, right? And, and, and, and it has, its like nice things. What's, what are the nice things is like, hey, being able to experiment, like doing maybe what you [01:08:00] not love doing, and then, oh, transition to what you love doing and, and having that experience and that that alone is, is, is, is worth it, right?

So I'm, I'm at peace with, with that, no. And it took me a lot of years to like, because I really resent my, my father in the inside, like do mm-hmm. . I was like, I was in my path. I was like, you know, making something and it was working. Why, why take it away, right? Mm-hmm. . And also he have his, uh, uh, romantic, uh, Storing his mind of like me following his

[01:08:38] CK: steps.

Right. The fam taking over the family business.

[01:08:41] Pablo: Taking over the family business. Yeah. And me in his chair. Mm-hmm. , it took me a while to say, Dude, I'm not you. Mm-hmm. , Oh, I, I, I just wanna do my thing. That's one. Like, I created my, my company and when I have my own path, and, and I will invite you [01:09:00] to, to no, to invest, uh, to be a part of it.

But that's the way I think it should be. You know, like, hey, like we're different humans. We're different humans. Completely different humans. So, Yeah. I mean, may, maybe for other cultures it's easier to understand that. But, uh, I think in, in other cultural is very Latin of like, is very family oriented. It's very, you know, continuing with whatever their family has.

And it's strange, but it is like that. No, if you look at India know, it is like, like very different in Saudi Arabia or, or like God's

[01:09:44] CK: like, yeah, I, I, I can't speak for Saudi Arabia or India. But uh, you know, in terms of the Chinese culture, it's actually very similar. It's a lot of like tradition, legacy, this type of convers It is changing, but just historically, culturally, [01:10:00] that's very much family's very important.

Right? Similar. So how, for those who are watching mm-hmm. , how did you come to peace with your father? Are there specific things that you did or, you know, hey, if you. Are incomplete with your parents and do this thing or do that thing. Oh man. I mean,

[01:10:23] Pablo: that, that's the toughest of all. Okay. Um, I went to this iboga ceremony, which I highly recommend.

[01:10:32] CK: Mm. Why, why do you recommend it? Because

[01:10:39] Pablo: besides the, the obvious, you know, encounter with yourself and, and, and what we talked about this previously, I think it's very different, very different to, to other, uh, psychedelic plants. No. Talking about, you know, psychedelic plants, the [01:11:00] mushroom, peyo, Pedro dmt, if that's a plant, Well, it comes from plant, uh, this is a completely different angle, which is also a plant.

And, uh, and, and, and. Not is the wrong natural. Mm-hmm.

Ruth bark, I think. Mm-hmm. . Um, anyway, so, uh, anyway, in that ceremony that the, the, the guy, which was a great guy, told me there is two types of, um, issues. in you is either from your mother or from your father. Mm-hmm. period. And it happened between age zero and age seven. You know, I'm putting, putting it very roughly, and of course there is [01:12:00] Sure more to it.

But basically that's, that's the thing. So, And why. Imagine having the two inputs in, in, in, in your first years when you're kinda like growing, you basically grab the traumas and fears of both sides and, and plus your experiences. So basically you're made of that. The issues that we all have inside is, are those three things.

So man, it is like tough. It is tough. Mommy. And that issues, holy shit, like , those are the toughest. And, and I think, um, what I can say is just, it takes, it takes a lot. It takes a lot to, to, to work, you know? And, and, and it's, and it's, I I mean, it could be faster, it can be long depending on the issue, but I think that's basically that's, that's the work.

[01:12:58] CK: But, but why, by why Boga [01:13:00] specifically? Cuz you mentioned others and you said you really recommend Iboga. Is there any specific reason why you recommend it for you? Right. Why that was, uh, specifically useful

[01:13:10] Pablo: for you? Okay. Because, um, I can say, uh, any psycho delic is, uh, uh, besides the healing experience and the, the being aware of or seeing things inside of you from another angle so you can heal them.

Mm-hmm. , it, it comes with a lot of fireworks, a lot of visual as the, I mean, it can get as crazy as you the craziest that it can get. Okay. Right. Uhhuh and, and, and that is very distracting.

[01:13:45] CK: Oh, Iboga doesn't have them? No. Oh,

[01:13:48] Pablo: oh, uh oh. Ibon is just like, you're like here, but you, you're kinda like the, the. The bandwidth between your UNC consciousness where all the issues are, and your [01:14:00] conscious mind is just like, like way like, um, wider.

And, and, and so in a very clear mind, of course it can get a, it can get a little visual for some people. For me it didn't, you see visions, So a very clear visions of static visions. But, but like the type of visions that you have when you, when you think or when you dream, so fireworks, they're just like more clear, but they're there no.

Mm-hmm. . So, uh, and that's another conversation whether they come from, it's either with the third eye or the mind or both, or a projection, like who knows? Not, but, but there is way less firework, so your carbon work, your mind to go through stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And MDMA therapy also, um, for, for, for the scars is I think ultra key.

Like if you ask me any [01:15:00] 18 year old, 20 year old, um, the boy girl has to go or human has to go through, through that we'll get, um, it will be a way easier life if you do that, I'm sure. And there's a lot of studies right now of regarding that maps and yeah, I think that's gonna be a quantum leaping evolution of humanity when that gets, you know, approved or, or, or seen as, uh, um, legit way to, to heal.


[01:15:45] CK: Mm. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. My, my personal practice around it is very much the way you describe it. Uh, I'm less interested about the fractals, the sacred geometries, the visions, [01:16:00] all those things. I think those are interesting. Um, but ultimately I'm interested in the, the insights and lessons. And, and then, and for me, my plan of medicine experience allowed me to see truth, but also illusions.

And I take notes during the, the sessions and then afterwards look at them later to evaluate .

[01:16:25] Pablo: That, that's, that's, yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's a big one to distinguish between illusions and, and, Yeah. Yeah. What's real, what's not. And that's a, that's a huge task, those, uh, realms for sure. Yeah.

[01:16:37] CK: Yeah. Are there things that, um, you.

Want to talk about that I haven't addressed.

[01:16:48] Pablo: CK I think you addressed like the most important stuff. in an hour and 17 minutes. .

[01:16:58] CK: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's, [01:17:00] that's the flavor of having a conversation with me. Uh, I am actually curious. One, one other thing too. If you look at a spectrum of just discovering one's purpose, refining their purpose, leaving their purpose to all the way actualized, right?

Standing tall, who in your mind live a actualized purpose driven life as a creator, as an entrepreneur, in your mind?

[01:17:27] Pablo: Shit. Well,

Mm, Okay. I think, um, public persons. Or public. Yeah. Um, that's a, its not that I, I think it's difficult to, to say and to judge because like, I don't know them. No. Yeah. Where, where, where I see this more is with, with artists. Mm-hmm. artists. [01:18:00] No. When you see them in their, in their element doing their thing and you see, like, you, you can see it, not see it.

You can like, kinda like see that they're in their place. Right. Nothing is, or very few things are off and they're walking the talk and doing their art, expressing and living from, from it. Mm-hmm. and, and, and everything they do has this tent of like, where they're very grace. No, that grace is very unique and very of them.

Very, Yeah. Yeah. Bears the, the corporate. No, sometimes you, you, you meet people in my world of like, hey, so you see one side of them in their, in the, in the office, in the corporate world, but, but you don't see them. [01:19:00] Him. Mm-hmm. is in mm-hmm. is when you get out of that context and the start to see kinda like their true, you know, essence and nature and, and it's beautiful.

So if you ask me Yeah. Artists are any,

[01:19:14] CK: Yeah. Any specific person, then I'm asking that question cuz I, I have some follow up questions for you. So who is, I know there are many artists, and you mentioned quite a few in your previous podcasts. Who is a person that you admire, who's congruent, who's coherent with what they say, what they do, how they dress, how they act?

[01:19:35] Pablo: Right. Um, Sino Sino is one of the artists that works, uh, that collaborates, uh, on the project. Uh, and that guy, I mean, his whole thing is like, wow, very cohesive and expressive and it's, it's beautiful to watch. Very inspiring. It was like, Hey man, I, I [01:20:00] have to get there some day.

[01:20:03] CK: Right. So, if you don't mind dimensionalizing a little bit more, what about Sabino?

You know, he's expressive and what else to have you say? Like, Wow, he's an actualized, purpose driven creator and entrepreneur.

[01:20:18] Pablo: Yeah, because, um, of course, well first of all he's, he's an artist that, uh, has, uh, some SAP roots, which he's very. Or what? Sap. Sap? I d? Yeah, that's a strange one. Kinda like Aztec.

[01:20:39] CK: Oh, oh, oh.

Like Aztec. Okay. Sap

[01:20:42] Pablo: with, uh mm-hmm. . See, um, comes from, um, that, uh, culture . Mm-hmm. , he embraces that culture, you know, but brings it into, um, the [01:21:00] modern age with like a beautiful style and the whole ideology of the Sao Texases, what he kind of like preaches through his art and has its own self improvement and evolution, uh, with it, and expressing also that Right.

And mixed with kind of like spacey. . Um, you have to see his art. You have to see his art cosmic inspiration. No. So very, very aligned. And he's doing well. He's an upcoming artist from, from Mexico, Oaxaca that is beginning to be recognized internationally. And it's very unique. It's like as unique as like, wow, this is like, I've never seen something similar.

That's always super rare, you know? And, and, and yeah. So, so those types of, [01:22:00] you know, humans, characters are very inspirational for me. And, and, and, and I think at the, in the project we have a lot of those know, luckily, um, they, they have like, we have found ourselves. Um, and, and I can mention like Paolo Montiel, you know, which is a lightning designer that also very similar ra, which we talked about.

Earlier, No, his whole lifestyle and, and, and art is, is very consistent and, and the way he lives, his whole house, his whole dressing, his whole birthday, everything is like very him, no, his music. So yeah, I think, um, those are the type of, um, characters I look up to as, you know, a, a human that it's, you know, doing its thing and, and

[01:22:51] CK: yeah.

So how can we, as a listeners, you know, let's say being inspired by you, inspired by, um, all these artists [01:23:00] that you mentioned, Practicalize or, you know, Double Warrior, right? Dojo moves. What kind of practices can we use as a way to move ourselves towards a more actualized way of being?

[01:23:14] Pablo: I think there's thousands of, um, paths

[01:23:17] CK: all, What, what, what path have you taken on personally?

[01:23:21] Pablo: Yeah, I think the what, what, whatever path that it's healing. Mm-hmm. , you know, the result will be that, that we're talking about, you know, and, and, and of course I only know that from my experience because I only know me like Right. So that's only know you. Mm-hmm. . So I, I, I do see a perfect, um, you know, you can trace a line of, of like the, the more you heal the, the more you're, you'll be aligned and also things around your line as well, and, and, and, and everything [01:24:00] follows.

But first yeah, it's, it's inside for sure. So yeah. Anything that, that accomplishes healing. Mm. So there's a wide menu of, of stuff

[01:24:16] CK: on spectrum to that. So, so if I'm hearing, hearing you right, but those who aspire to be even more purpose driven, even a better entrepreneur. I, I'm, I mean, I may project put words in your mouth.

A, a good place to start is healed myself. Come back to wholeness. Is that Yeah. Recreating what you're saying? Correct. Beautiful. Any last words you wanted to say before we complete our conversation today?

[01:24:43] Pablo: No. Okay. I, I think, um, yeah, Nothing I'm super grateful to, to be here. This is a big surprise. CK uh, very, um, subtle but profound, but beautiful.

The conversation and [01:25:00] podcast you have. Uh, I. I had a, um, the chance to like browse through your, um, guests and, and wow. That have a, an amazing roaster of, of people. And, uh, I'm, I'm honored. Thank you.

[01:25:19] CK: Thank you Volo, for being here, sharing your story and, and honestly be so open about your own journey, um, and be so open about all the healing journey that you have done.

I know that, uh, uh, I'm a fan, uh, and I can't wait to see more of your creation. Uh, so thank you so much for being a noble warrior. Thank

[01:25:43] Pablo: you. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I hope to meet you, uh, in person soon.

[01:25:47] CK: Absolutely.

Pablo Gonzalez VargasProfile Photo

Pablo Gonzalez Vargas


Founder of Mexico’s Sr. Pago, one of the leading E-Payment platforms in the Latin America, Pablo is also the founder of EXA Radio and TV, among the most important media outlets for the Latin America Youth Market. It was during this time that he provided the vision which led to multiple concerts, performances, and music festivals. Working as a production director for the Dish/MVS TV network, Vargas remains a passionate supporter of the Visual and Performing Arts.
Amount his artistic purists, Pablo was the founder and creator of the Mayan Warrior, a multimedia art vehicle that has visited Burning Man since 2012, along with the interactive light and sound installation Ilumina which appeared at Burning Man for the first time in 2017.